WeAreStarStuff
Member
I'm honestly surprised there has not been more retaliatory violence against the police.
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After car broke down, Florida church drummer killed by plainclothes cop (Up: Fired)
- Thread starter Trojita
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Think about it if it was you. Your car breaks down in the middle of some Florida road at night. You call for a tow truck and wait. This is Florida where a lot of citizens are armed and have concealed carry. You are inside your car or waiting near it. You see a random car come behind you, it's an unmarked car and not a tow truck, a large guy gets out with a flashlight or gun drawn or you see it on their person, what would you think or do?
Since all we have to go on is the cops words, we'll never know the truth. My own theory, the cop approaches the car, Corey gets out, cop probably thinks it's some kind of trap to rob him and panics and fires his gun killing him. Otherwise why would Corey confront or be violent? What's more likely here? This guy that everyone who knew him, said was super fun, humble, not violent at all, knew how to deal with cops, and was just chilling and waiting for a tow truck, or some random cop working at night, unmarked plainclothes who fears black people, especially with the current mood around black/cops etc. I really hope that we see some kind of car footage.
Since all we have to go on is the cops words, we'll never know the truth. My own theory, the cop approaches the car, Corey gets out, cop probably thinks it's some kind of trap to rob him and panics and fires his gun killing him. Otherwise why would Corey confront or be violent? What's more likely here? This guy that everyone who knew him, said was super fun, humble, not violent at all, knew how to deal with cops, and was just chilling and waiting for a tow truck, or some random cop working at night, unmarked plainclothes who fears black people, especially with the current mood around black/cops etc. I really hope that we see some kind of car footage.
classy.
Too bad, you seemed to be so knowledgable and informed about the topic.
Fact is, American police exhibits a lot of the behaviour commonly associated with gangs, like obstuction of investigation, promotion of war and conflict, gun culture and treating a profession and the collegues like a surrogate family.
I appreciate your answer to my question though. All class.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Wait. Were you originally telling Americans to not judge their police force for the actions of a few when you yourself aren't even an American who has witnessed our police? Our police have a racial issue that is systemic. So in that context when people say "police" they are referring to it as an entire organization or system. They are not saying every single individual is bad. I don't know why I need to explain that so often, it's like people can't interpret things accurately.
Also I appreciate the irony in someone named 'triggerhappytel' in condemning "trigger-happy bullshit'.
Mammoth Jones
Member
This. I hate plan clothes cops. They can assault you and if you dare defend yourself as any normal human would you're in trouble. It's like you're supposed to be a mind reader that they're a cop.
Triggerhappytel
Member
I apologise for the rude outburst. But I really am out of this conversation. I'm not here to defend the police and I don't condone their actions.
It's almost like my user name on a public forum has nothing to do with my morals or beliefs! If you must know, it's based on a character from a videogame I liked when I was a kid.
They are trained to shoot to kill at the most slight suspicion of someone having a gun. Of course there are parts of this that are racism too, but it really doesn't help that are people just plain out telling cops that, if they see someone moving like they could possibly pull out a gun (nevermind that they are just reaching for documents after being asked for them by the cop) they just have to shoot first. Maybe the gun culture in america doesn't help as cops are actually kind of right in assuming anyone could be carrying a gun.
The best part is that the same people will then testify in the lawsuits that the cops acted right.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/u...first-and-he-will-answer-questions-later.html
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I never said it did represent your beliefs. Just that I appreciate the irony in your word choice juxtaposed to your username.
Sometimes they're a necessity to catch some criminals red handed though
NoblesseOblige
Banned
That may be true, but then charges such as resisting arrest should be limited to uniformed officers. Otherwise how are citizens to know if they're being detained by an incognito cop, or some random psycho? I also think the gun should be considered part of the uniform, meaning they don't get to pack it when they're in plain clothes, or off-duty. A stun-gun or some pepper-spray, sure, but not a gun.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Some of the police are decent people, others are pieces of shit no better than the criminals they're supposed to be going after only they went a slightly different way in life. And unlike the criminals there's almost no accountability for crimes committed by cops and they know that.
I'm sure some are, but with 780 death's, aren't we way past the "some bad apples" defense on this?
The only real crime a cop can commit is embarrassing the police force.
Murdering a black man is not embarrassing to them unfortunately but exposing corruption or bullying in the force will often lead to the whistle blowing officer being bullied, sometimes to suicide. Or in one case being illegally committed.
Murdering a black man is not embarrassing to them unfortunately but exposing corruption or bullying in the force will often lead to the whistle blowing officer being bullied, sometimes to suicide. Or in one case being illegally committed.
Triggerhappytel
Member
I'm foolish in trying to defend anything about the US police force because - as has already been pointed out - I'm not American, have never been to America and I'm trying to equate my experience with English police against how they operate. My experience with the police force here has been nothing but positive but they don't use firearms or excessive force so there's no fear between civilians and the police, only (again, in my experience) respect.
Angelus Errare
Banned
I always hate the whole "a few rotten apples" spiel that way too many people love saying as they high five themselves in their batcave. Because news flash...you don't put the fucking rotten apples back in the bunch.
Because that would leave a witness.
Not necessarily, because of the size of the police forces of some areas. NYPD has more than 34,000 uniformed officers, LAPD itself has over 10,000 officers. Put together as a total, you probably have more uniformed officers in the US than the entire militaries of some European countries.
Nationally it seems bad, but remember some areas are worse than others. There is so many of these stories because there are so many Americans and so many police officers. Don't get me wrong, it's a brutal statistic. The US has something like 70x more fatal police shootings than most other developed nations, and more gun homicides by thousands. For example, you probably also have more officers gunned down in the line of duty in one year in the US than decades of several European nations put together.
This is not a defense of 'bad apples'. American cops all over are in need of regulation and reform. A civilian oversight committee that looks at all officer shootings, maybe a new oversight board at the federal level that watches all state and municipal police. Plus you need to start firing and charging officers with their crimes as well.
Using your experience with our police force is pretty irrelevant though. I mean in the UK there are still problems with racism in the force but we have ways of making sure criminal police are brought to justice. We also have initiatives to try and make our police representative of the community they serve as a whole.
Also our police are not an army and have largely resisted calls to become one.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Remember when we had that debate about running not being better even when you're innocent? Yeah, who knows anymore given these situations.
You would think with the level of interviewing and stuff that police applicants go through, having to see a psychologist and whatever else, so many wouldn't fall through the cracks. It's either the hiring or the training that needs a rehaul. Possibly both.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
There is no way to equate your experience with the UK police in a thread that mentions that over 700 citizens have been killed this year alone in the US. There is the signal that things are different.
That's not foolish.
Training, culture, pay, working hours, community outreach, hiring procedures
I would say all of these need reform.
Right now cops seem to have an us v them mentality that does nothing but cause problems.
I dont get the surprise, retaliation against the políce its only a common occurrence in the minds of bigots and paranoids, the police's war against minorities its a pretty one-sided afair.
Spring-Loaded
Member
And you can at least tell which apples are rotten by looking at them.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
It's our whole culture that needs fixing. Our police reflect our society, and until, as a nation, we start seeing minority people as equals then our police are going to reflect the prejudiced attitudes of our society. Hiring and training will help reduce the occurrence, but not outright eliminate it. That's not saying they shouldn't be done (they should, and more), just that the problem is deeper in our society.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
And everything else.
An independent investigator, in Chicago, was bullied for attempting to lay blame on the police.
http://www.wbez.org/news/city-fires-investigator-who-found-cops-fault-shootings-112423
You can't trust any part of the process when they fight tooth and nail to avoid accountability. Psychologist? Yeah, find one who has been a cop before that loves the cop warrior mythos and is sympathetic. Then, give them a lot of money and make them pay off the team. Any cop that shows tendencies that may be harmful? 'Oh, don't be a wet rag. He has a family to feed.' Pressure from all sides for everyone to fall in line because the pay is good, police deaths are falling, they are safer then they have ever been, union benefits and the only thing you have to do, is overlook some deaths of a bunch of guys who are already scum.
When the rest enable and are quick to jump to the defense of the murders and give them the benefit of the doubt automatically because of the color they're wearing they can and should be judged as well. That BS needs to stop. I've yet to see a situation where other cops see the same crap we see and their first reaction is to admit the other cop was in the wrong. There is always some excuse. When that culture stops then we can talk about possibly not judging cops as a whole.
Have you talked to any other cops about this? I assume not? Then how would you know how other cops feel about this.
lol
GeordieMark
Member
Sounds really odd. Why would the guy start waving his gun at a cop, if he even had one in the first place? It just doesn't make sense, unless a huge chunk of the story is missing.
God knows how a breakdown can escalate into a shooting.
God knows how a breakdown can escalate into a shooting.
MWS Natural
Member
"The perp appeared from the vehicle with a dehumanizing gaze....as soon as he saw me he began "Hulking Up" with Negro strength.
A few more steps and my 9mm rounds may have not have been able to penetrate his skin. Fearing for my life I had no other choice but to open fire."
kame-sennin
Member
These things almost never happen.
Spring-Loaded
Member
If someone provides you an example of an officer outwardly defending/ignoring other improper actions by police, are you going to say it's an isolated viewpoint? If so, how many examples would you need to stop saying "you have no proof how other cops feel about this"?
Do you think this is a unique, individual mindset of an American police officer?
Mammoth Jones
Member
That's all good but they need to promptly identify themselves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK5bMSyJCsg
One should not pull their gun BEFORE they identify AND verify their identity.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
lol..always.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Unmarked cars still have police lights, correct?
Also,
So where's the middle part of the story? We have the beginning and end.
Also,
So where's the middle part of the story? We have the beginning and end.
he's like a watered down version of Patrol. not quite as bigoted but definitely a walking apologist. his username should be changed to #notallcops for full effect.
kame-sennin
Member
I would like to see department specific statistics. I know the Albuquerque police department has had a horrific string of murders in recent years.
Guns are deadly weapons. Their only function is to kill and they can't be effectively used for non-lethal assaults.
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