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[Funky Papa]

Note to AoS writers:

stop trying to make Lincoln happen

Decent enough episode, but everything about Lincoln and Lash was...

This show also needs to find better ways to manage its CG budget. It boogles the mind that eyecandy like this:

coexists in the same show as this Disney Channel grade BS:

ABC pls.

 

[Gambit]

Spoiler

Wrong Whedon

same difference.

 

[The Elite]

I say this every week but someone is getting Illyria'd, aren't they?

 

[mugurumakensei]

I say this every week but someone is getting Illyria'd, aren't they?

Either Fitz or Simmons.

 

[duckroll]

This show also needs to find better ways to manage its CG budget. It boogles the mind that eyecandy like this:

http://i.imgur.com/7k3Rfws.gif

coexists in the same show as this Disney Channel grade BS:

http://i.imgur.com/6tl9X34.gif

ABC pls.

I don't find that surprising or unusual at all. What you're looking at is a scene that does not look out of place and a scene which looks totally out of place. But they're very different types of effects and it is much harder for one of those to look "good" than the other. Ships docking on each other might look really cool as an effect scene, but it's also much easier to get it to look good without taking into consideration particle effects, complex physics, and compositing it with live action footage.

The moment anything explodes on AoS though? Including ships? It looks like utter crap. The moment any human character has to pretend to create energy blasts or whatever? It looks like crap. So yeah, I'll say it's not about balancing the CG budget, but rather they don't seem very capable in doing certain types of scenes. This has been true since season 1.

 

[Funky Papa]

The moment anything explodes on AoS though? Including ships? It looks like utter crap.

HELLO.

Good CGI is not just determined by rendering time, poly counts and texturing, but also art direction. You gotta know your strenghts. And if you know you don't have the budget to pull some scenes or effects, you take a step back and rethink your approach. Find a clever way to show those powers or reduce the visual impact of them so they don't look like crap. Never bite more that you can chew.

 

[duckroll]

Yeah that looks like a videogame FMV from a 90s PC game. Lol. I think in general the production design in AoS is really, really weak. It's a lot more apparent when we look at the costumes and the way effects look on say Arrow or Flash. Just compare Deathlok on AoS and Deathstroke on Arrow. One looks like a budget Halloween costume while the other actually looks somewhat cool and solid.

 

[Father_Brain]

Is the FX budget of SHIELD that much lower than that of Flash or Supergirl, or is SHIELD just much dumber about how to spend it? Not that the other two shows have been flawless in that regard, but they're just so much better at depicting superpowers in a visually interesting way.

 

[Funky Papa]

Yeah that looks like a videogame FMV from a 90s PC game. Lol. I think in general the production design in AoS is really, really weak. It's a lot more apparent when we look at the costumes and the way effects look on say Arrow or Flash. Just compare Deathlok on AoS and Deathstroke on Arrow. One looks like a budget Halloween costume while the other actually looks somewhat cool and solid.

I hope you are talking about Lincoln's lame attempt at Kame Hame Ha-ing Lash, because I thought the bus scene was rad AF.

With that said, it's really disappointing to see AoS production design remain so damn low after three seasons. Sets and action scenes remain anchored in the pre-golden TV era and it's a damn shame.

Is the FX budget of SHIELD that much lower than that of Flash or Supergirl, or is SHIELD just much dumber about how to spend it? Not that the other two shows have been flawless in that regard, but they're just so much better at depicting superpowers in a visually interesting way.

It's a production design issue. If you pay attention, both Arrow and Flash are cheap as hell. They reuse sets (and parking lots...) all the time, but they are super creative when it comes to things like props and lighting. They also have decent action scenes, whereas AoS remains consistently mediocre.

 

[duckroll]

Is the FX budget of SHIELD that much lower than that of Flash or Supergirl, or is SHIELD just much dumber about how to spend it? Not that the other two shows have been flawless in that regard, but they're just so much better at depicting superpowers in a visually interesting way.

It's not just FX thought. Like I said, look at the costumes and the practical stuff. Also shit! Shiiiiiiiiiiiit!

 

[Jest Chillin]

Is the FX budget of SHIELD that much lower than that of Flash or Supergirl, or is SHIELD just much dumber about how to spend it? Not that the other two shows have been flawless in that regard, but they're just so much better at depicting superpowers in a visually interesting way.

I think it's an unwritten rule of trade-off for broadcast comic book shows. You can either have decent dialogue and sketchy CGI or bad dialogue and decent CGI.

 

[Funky Papa]

Not to say that Arrow hasn't tried to punch way above its weight, though.

That drone episode and the latest Lazarus' pit hijinks were downright terribad. And Starling City's high speed train station is more like a glorified bus stop.

 

[duckroll]

Let's step aside from the CG debate and just look at this:

Like, seriously.

 

[Funky Papa]

Everything was Smallville~

Barring some stuff lifted from the main MCU such as jet designs, pretty much anything related to AoS production values reeks of old school TV executive working on a funny action show for the younglings.

 

[guek]

Not to say that Arrow hasn't tried to punch way above its weight, though.

That drone episode and the latest Lazarus' pit hijinks were downright terribad. And Starling City's high speed train station is more like a glorified bus stop.

Flash consistently looks great but Arrow has always had mediocre to terrible choreography and effects.

AoS is just plain inconsistent. It feels like they blow their effects budget on "big" scenes with everything else feeling mediocre. Costume design has been lacking too but they're getting better.

 

[Escape Goat]

Lincoln hasproved 100% ineffective against Lash (even with Skye) but now he thinks hes going to win the day?

 

[duckroll]

Lincoln hasproved 100% ineffective against Lash (even with Skye) but now he thinks hes going to win the day?

No, he was just angry and impulsive, and he acted without thinking. AKA: Lincoln was just being Lincoln. Lol.

 

[Calm waterfall]

Note to AoS writers:

stop trying to make Lincoln happen

Lincoln is great and should replace Hunter. Hunter is garbage.

 

[Father_Brain]

Let's step aside from the CG debate and just look at this:





Like, seriously.

Eh, SHIELD's costume and makeup design have gotten a lot better since S1, I feel. It's more the direction, set design, and CG that haven't, at least not nearly enough.

 

[Funky Papa]

Lincoln is great and should replace Hunter. Hunter is garbage.

 

[Quick]

I think Agents of SHIELD need to take some pointers from the Doctor Who production crew (Series 5 onward) on how to work around budget constraints with effects.

I generally don't mind AoS's effects, but I think it could be better.

Lincoln is great and should replace Hunter. Hunter is garbage.

 

[KarmaCow]

Lincoln is great and should replace Hunter. Hunter is garbage.

Hunter is at least proven to be funny with how much of a fuckup he is, unlike Lincoln who has done fuck all.

 

[Fuu]

You know, they actually can do interesting things with Lincoln considering where his character is coming from. He was suicidal and alcoholic at one point in his life and he just lost his entire support system.

Then John Donnelly, the dude he phones when he's on the run in "A Wanted (Inhu)man", starts mistrusting him right after a news report and Lincoln accidentally kills him. The same dude who saved him from a suicide attempt before. Luke Mitchell mentioned that John also functioned as Lincoln's sponsor with his drinking problem (they talk about it when they meet in that episode, "Have you been drinking?" "I wanted to, instead I called you. You're the only one I trust.")

I know most people in this thread just want his character do go away, but idk, I'm willing to give him a chance. If they work his angst properly and don't let the character get bogged down with too much relationship drama it can turn out to be pretty decent

 

[Red Arremer]

Well in a show about superheroes and superscience, you gotta have some CG.

But man, they wrapped up the Lash story really fast. Who wants to bet on Lash somehow breaking out and teaming up with Ward?

 

[Quick]

Hunter is at least proven to be funny with how much of a fuckup he is, unlike Lincoln who has done fuck all.

I wanna see an episode involving Hunter and Lincoln now, in an episode centred on who can fuck up more.

You know, they actually can do interesting things with Lincoln considering where his character is coming from. He was suicidal and alcoholic at one point in his life and he just lost his entire support system.

Then John Donnelly, the dude he phones when he's on the run in "A Wanted (Inhu)man", starts mistrusting him right after a news report and Lincoln accidentally kills him. The same dude who saved him from a suicide attempt before. Luke Mitchell mentioned that John also functioned as Lincoln's sponsor with his drinking problem (they talk about it when they meet in that episode, "Have you been drinking?" "I wanted to, instead I called you. You're the only one I trust.")

I know most people in this thread just want his character do go away, but idk, I'm willing to give him a chance. If they work his angst properly and don't let the character get bogged down with too much relationship drama it can turn out to be pretty decent

I agree with this. Lincoln has so much potential. The writers just haven't had the chance to do it yet at this point in the season, but I feel like he'll finally get to be more fleshed out either before the end of this half, or by the next half of the season.

 

[Red Arremer]

Well isn't Hunter supposed to be a main character in the Mockingbird spin-off? So he's gonna be dropped out of the show anyway.

I also like Lincoln. He's a fuckup, but his angst isn't coming out of nowhere. I'm hoping that the writers work him out a bit more.
The only thing I just really don't get is him making out with Daisy. This was so totally unnecessary.

Spoiler

I just really like lightning powers.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

Hunter is the best, you blasphemers.

 

[Quick]

Hunter is the best, you blasphemers.

Fucking love this gif.

 

[Red Arremer]

The only character I really don't like on the show is Mack. I didn't like Andrew either but at least now he's got some purpose. Mack is just being a dick all the time.

 

[Jest Chillin]

So.. main cast for this season has thus far been:

Coulson
May
Bobbi
Hunter
Fitz
Simmons
Daisy
Andrew
Ward
Mack
Rosalind

Then you add in high reccurances for:
Lincoln
Banks

That's a pretty damn big cast and not everyone is going to have compelling stuff while some are weighted, by necessity, with more compelling plot/development (Coulson, Ward, Rosalind, Daisy).

I don't really know where anyone expects Lincoln, Banks, or Mack to get any worthwhile agency when screen time is limited.

 

[Fuu]

They clearly have more planned for Lincoln than they have for Mack or Banks though, his character keeps coming back and playing a relatively big part in all episodes he shows up in this season.

 

[Quick]

The only character I really don't like on the show is Mack. I didn't like Andrew either but at least now he's got some purpose. Mack is just being a dick all the time.

So.. main cast for this season has thus far been:

Coulson
May
Bobbi
Hunter
Fitz
Simmons
Daisy
Andrew
Ward
Mack
Rosalind

Then you add in high reccurances for:
Lincoln
Banks

That's a pretty damn big cast and not everyone is going to have compelling stuff while some are weighted, by necessity, with more compelling plot/development (Coulson, Ward, Rosalind, Daisy).

I don't really know where anyone expects Lincoln, Banks, or Mack to get any worthwhile agency when screen time is limited.

Luke Mitchell (Lincoln) is actually part of the main cast. Now that he's part of SHIELD in the story, I'm assuming we'll see him a lot more.

Constance Zimmer is listed as recurring, but "recurring" is just a label at this point.

 

[Ithil]

Is the FX budget of SHIELD that much lower than that of Flash or Supergirl, or is SHIELD just much dumber about how to spend it? Not that the other two shows have been flawless in that regard, but they're just so much better at depicting superpowers in a visually interesting way.

Flash and Arrow film cheaply on sets in generally the same locations, and reuse a lot of stuff (how many warehouses has Ollie had a fight in?), SHIELD does a shitload of expensive location shooting around the world. Most shows (example, Supernatural) film in the same Vancouver forests and towns to double as all their locations, SHIELD actually does location filming in places like Puerto Rico or the Middle East. So that's where plenty of the filming budget goes.

That and the direction of the series is just not that stylish. Arrow goes for a particular style, and while the budget fails it plenty of times, they do try to be more moody and flashy with it.

 

[Jest Chillin]

They clearly have more planned for Lincoln than they have for Mack or Banks though, his character keeps coming back and playing a relatively big part in all episodes he shows up in this season.

That's just due to the nature of his being an Inhuman and the current overall arc being heavily Inhuman focused. He's the viewpoint of the Inhuman on the run and also the source of necessary info dumps. His power use has been largely for show (ineffective) and he hasn't done any of what his character is purported to be able to do well... help with transitioning. He's been window dressing, most likely because Andrew has a broader skillset that serves both the Inhuman and Simmons plotlines. Now that Simmons is largely past the more extreme PTSD, they've gotten rid of Andrew in the plot and now there's space for Lincoln to, presumedly, excercise his transitioning skills.

But that just speaks to my point. The cast is simply too big to properly service all the characters. So many characters effectively become recognizable extras for periods of time when the focus is on others.

Luke Mitchell (Lincoln) is actually part of the main cast. Now that he's part of SHIELD in the story, I'm assuming we'll see him a lot more.

Constance Zimmer is listed as recurring, but "recurring" is just a label at this point.

You're correct but I was using "Main Cast" more colloquially to represent characters who've made the bulk of the appearances thus far this season. They had to work some characters in and I would expect others to get plotted out eventually but that doesn't have any bearing on my overall point of the cast being too large for everyone to shine all of the time.

 

[Quick]

Flash and Arrow film cheaply on sets in generally the same locations, and reuse a lot of stuff (how many warehouses has Ollie had a fight in?), SHIELD does a shitload of expensive location shooting around the world. Most shows (example, Supernatural) film in the same Vancouver forests and towns to double as all their locations, SHIELD actually does location filming in places like Puerto Rico or the Middle East. So that's where plenty of the filming budget goes.

That and the direction of the series is just not that stylish. Arrow goes for a particular style, and while the budget fails it plenty of times, they do try to be more moody and flashy with it.

I don't think they actually shoot on location all the time. The Pilot is the most they've done location shoots at this point, I think.

I wanna get some behind-the-scenes insight on this now that it's brought up.

 

[duckroll]

I think AoS' "location shooting" amounts to doing pick up shots with a skeleton crew, and then using those shots to create ugly and obvious composites with virtual sets where the actual cast films on. I don't think they actually fly the cast on location to other countries. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Shield is all over the place this season

The Andrew is Lash is an weak thread in an otherwise good season

I think I see where they are going storywise after that last scene.

Might be time to retire this show in a season or two. We will see

 

[kirblar]

You know, they actually can do interesting things with Lincoln considering where his character is coming from. He was suicidal and alcoholic at one point in his life and he just lost his entire support system.

Then John Donnelly, the dude he phones when he's on the run in "A Wanted (Inhu)man", starts mistrusting him right after a news report and Lincoln accidentally kills him. The same dude who saved him from a suicide attempt before. Luke Mitchell mentioned that John also functioned as Lincoln's sponsor with his drinking problem (they talk about it when they meet in that episode, "Have you been drinking?" "I wanted to, instead I called you. You're the only one I trust.")

I know most people in this thread just want his character do go away, but idk, I'm willing to give him a chance. If they work his angst properly and don't let the character get bogged down with too much relationship drama it can turn out to be pretty decent

The problem is that this season is 100% about relationship drama.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Yeah...

it was better when it was chasing MCU threads even it some people felt it ruined/cheapened the show

I feel like it hurts the MUC having the low quality aspects of this show becoming canon in the universe as a whole

 

[Jest Chillin]

I think AoS' "location shooting" amounts to doing pick up shots with a skeleton crew, and then using those shots to create ugly and obvious composites with virtual sets where the actual cast films on. I don't think they actually fly the cast on location to other countries. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

I recall a Gaffer saying something about them actually filming in Puerto Rico for the Inhuman Temple stuff (the surface street shots at least).

But they also do quite a bit of filming out in LA, not just backlots.

 

[kirblar]

They've occasionally done international shots. Sweden early in S1 was one. (apologies if I named the wrong Nordic country.)

 

[Exploratory]

Note to AoS writers:

stop trying to make Lincoln happen

I like Lincoln.

 

[Quick]

I think AoS' "location shooting" amounts to doing pick up shots with a skeleton crew, and then using those shots to create ugly and obvious composites with virtual sets where the actual cast films on. I don't think they actually fly the cast on location to other countries. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Most of their location shot are aerial shots of the city of choice, too. Anything involving characters needing to be in a distinct location is a set.

 

[BrokenFiction]

I like Lincoln.

#TeamLincoln

 

[fallengorn]

They've occasionally done international shots. Sweden early in S1 was one. (apologies if I named the wrong Nordic country.)

Yeah, but if I remember correctly, all those shots didn't need any of the cast there.

If there's room in the budget I think they like to do it, but it's mostly sets and redressing locations to be other places.

 

[Exploratory]

#TeamLincoln

Yeah I don't know what people want but you can't make everyone happy. I mean his life already fucking sucks and a dude goes and kills almost everyone he knows? And he's on the run for killing a close friend by accident.

I mean what do people want from him lol?

 

[Funky Papa]

He's a poorly written character with no compelling traits portrayed by a mediocre actor.

#FuckLincoln

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

I thought Lincoln was pretty cool when he stood up to lash but the effects weren't great.

 

[Deadly]

I think AoS' "location shooting" amounts to doing pick up shots with a skeleton crew, and then using those shots to create ugly and obvious composites with virtual sets where the actual cast films on. I don't think they actually fly the cast on location to other countries. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Yeah no way they actually go to each location to shoot it would cost a fortune.

 

[iosefe]

I thought Lincoln was pretty cool when he stood up to lash but the effects weren't great.

he also nearly fucked up the plan