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Alanah Pearce - It's going to get worse

So probably not as good as Nioh 2. Nioh 2 also in it's own way rewards you for playing the game so that's a plus for Ronin. If Ronin comes to PC ever I'll support it. Sounds like a chill game. Would you say Ronin is more similar to Dragon's Dogma? If so it might be a good time.
It's pretty different from DD.

DD is intentionally brutal in it's mechanics, at least to me it is, whereas Ronin has so many options to play the game in a streamlined manner.
 

Hypereides

Gold Member
Unless your were referring to Gamepass, I agree with you.

A good chunk of people/gamers might as well be retarded. The amount of dog piling on the types of games that people claim they want... We know what evil publishers are all about but people support it, cry, and then turn their nose up at a quality alternative because of metacritic or lazy reviews on YT.
Morgan Freeman Reaction GIF by MOODMAN


Bruh.

The game has easily 100+ hours of content and has no MTX, Season Pass, etc. I have 92 hours in the game and it says I'm 64% done. That's not even counting the different routes you can take with story decisions. The game is a freaking juggernaut in terms of content and gameplay.

It is absolutely worth the $70 USD and the art style is gorgeous. Who gives a F about a horse with a bum leg 😅. I embrace it and respect the shit out of that horse. Dude is my taxi and a reliable steed.

Ronin is a prime example of a game that should absolutely be supported and why gamers are often their own worst enemy.
You know, this isn't being said enough. Some people are so absolutely terrified of "defying" the "almighty" aggregated Metacritic score or "certified" gaming outlet verdict to a point where its become a detriment to gaming or to themselves. It becomes even more ridiculous when they'll turn down a game they had interest in purely due to some score a random journo (who more than often is worse at games than the readers themselves) puked out in an article.

"This game might be good/decent/interesting, but... look at that average! Ew!"
 
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MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
It's pretty different from DD.

DD is intentionally brutal in it's mechanics, at least to me it is, whereas Ronin has so many options to play the game in a streamlined manner.
I mean similar in regards to exploration or openworldyness and maybe in systems like gear/weapons although I get the feeling it is probably similar to Nioh but simplified. Probably has more in common with Wo Long now that I think about it.

The JRPG/Diablo aspect is very much a Nioh touch. Probably gonna research it a bit.

Edit: It looks like Nioh + Openworld/Sandbox. Similar to maybe AssCreed or Witcher 3? Looks like a lot of fun.
 
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But that's not inherently true, the risk regardless in gaming is very high. If you spend 7 years making a massive game and it bombs regardless of mtx or not its actually a bigger risk than a small game from a smaller studio that nets out a tiny profit. If MS wanted a safe bet on permanent growth they'd get out of gaming as a whole, there are far better industries that they can dominate in (cloud servers is one of them) that they can invest heavier into.

The only good bet is COD, so why not shut the rest down by your logic? Starfield did well but it damaged their reputation and Todd Howard is getting old, there's a high chance their next game is a disaster.
To your last paragraph, that's what they are moving towards. It's the reason they are hoovering companies up to sit on IP. This provides a multifaceted advantage over their opponents in a market where growth is almost at a full stop. They can sell rights to games for PSN or any other streaming service, use it to boost their subscriptions, etc. etc.

I think your post brings up good points that end up reiterating my point even further. I understand it could be different under a set of different circumstances e.g. they invest in another sector of even the same market like cloud, but overall, they (and the market as a whole) are in this state.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I think what will happen is more layoffs/firings because they massively hired during pandemic and with the progression of AI support you don't need as many people. And it really is impacting the Tech fields big time and as a result they don't necessarily need all these studios or staff if they can put out similar output without them. At least that's what's probably going on. AAA games will probably stagnate and eventually even the gaming whales will shift towards AA games.

The outrage from artists and voice actors was the beginning and this turn of events is just the next chapter it would seem.
 
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RespawnX

Member
It doesn't make it wrong, but it also doesn't shine light on anything new. What exactly is the point of her saying that? To fear monger? FOMO?

It is useful to explain it in this context. Most people are not aware of such terms and the meaning of this type of measurement. Even though they are confronted with it every day as consumers. I think it makes sense to explain this in a video that aims to describe the motivations behind game publishing and studio closures.

It's worth pointing out that Microsoft has failed 4 out of 4 live services games in the last 2 years. Halo Infinite, Redfall, Minecraft Legends, Forza Motorsport were all flops from this perspective. That makes the whole argument in Microsoft's favour difficult.

I don't see how this management can improve in the foreseeable future. At this point, they don't even realise what damage they are doing to their reputation. Xbox is being converted into a normal service. Anyone who knows anything about the entertainment industry knows why this can only go wrong. There is a reason why PlayStation is not called Sony Gaming and why Nintendo only has "one" business segment.
 
I mean similar in regards to exploration or openworldyness and maybe in systems like gear/weapons although I get the feeling it is probably similar to Nioh but simplified. Probably has more in common with Wo Long now that I think about it.

The JRPG/Diablo aspect is very much a Nioh touch. Probably gonna research it a bit.
I've never played DD2 but DD1 definitely has a more dynamic world than Ronin. Ronin's open world really doesn't have much to discover but it is pleasant to be a part of.

As for weapons and gear, there are 9 different weapon types in Ronin and each have multiple stances. You can have 3 stances at a time and two main weapons equipped. You also have sub weapons, rifle, handgun, flame thrower, shurikens, clay pot bombs, etc.

One of my favorite things about Ronin is that you can pick a spot on the map and the horse will take you there. I don't know if that's standard in open world games but it's new to me. Granted, you can fast travel but I like feeling like I'm part of the world and there's these small micro combat missions that pop up that reward you.

You also get gear like crazy and they all have perks, you can transfer up to two perks from different weapons to your equipped weapon, wearing a full set of gear gives you bonus perks. You can apply various buffs to yourself or your weapons. Parry system is brutal because the enemy stances have so much variety. It's really difficult to master all attack patterns.

It's such a dope game. I really want to make a detailed video for YT when I'm done with the game but there is so much to cover.

FWIW, my experience with the game shows me that the vast majority of reviewers rushed through the game to focus on DD2 because that game was going to generate more clicks. Ronin didn't deserve all the weird flak it got. Again, not everyone will feel the same about it but it's a really quality game. Outside of the open world that will turn some people off, the other potential fatal flaw is that the game is probably too big for it's own good and the narrative suffers at times. For instance, I have 40 NPC friends in the game (so far), all these people play a role in the story and you give them gifts which unlocks bond missions, these are arguably the best missions in the game but you gotta put in effort to obtain them.

The game is huge. I'll probably put 150 hours in it before I'm done. The 92 hours is pure gameplay, I don't leave my console paused for extended periods.

Also, the coop aspect allows you to jump right into combat. It literally spits you into a mission and as soon as it's done it spits you out. Easy way to grind and get that combat fix if you only have 20 minutes to game. Missions aren't very long.
 
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Bry0

Member
I mean similar in regards to exploration or openworldyness and maybe in systems like gear/weapons although I get the feeling it is probably similar to Nioh but simplified. Probably has more in common with Wo Long now that I think about it.

The JRPG/Diablo aspect is very much a Nioh touch. Probably gonna research it a bit.

Edit: It looks like Nioh + Openworld/Sandbox. Similar to maybe AssCreed or Witcher 3? Looks like a lot of fun.
It’s a total blast. I see your avatar so I just want to mention, I played the game with my main character being a 1:1 recreation of Kasumi and my blade twin was Hayate, and for a lot of my playthrough I used a katana with Hayabusa’s fighting style. It felt like I was playing a crazy nioh/wolong/DOA/ninja gaiden with a touch of assassins creed smorgasbord of a game.
 
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MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I've never played DD2 but DD1 definitely has a more dynamic world than Ronin. Ronin's open world really doesn't have much to discover but it is pleasant to be a part of.

As for weapons and gear, there are 9 different weapon types in Ronin and each have multiple stances. You can have 3 stances at a time and two main weapons equipped. You also have sub weapons, rifle, handgun, flame thrower, shurikens, clay pot bombs, etc.

One of my favorite things about Ronin is that you can pick a spot on the map and the horse will take you there. I don't know if that's standard in open world games but it's new to me. Granted, you can fast travel but I like feeling like I'm part of the world and there's these small micro combat missions that pop up that reward you.

You also get gear like crazy and they all have perks, you can transfer up to two perks from different weapons to your equipped weapon, wearing a full set of gear gives you bonus perks. You can apply various buffs to yourself or your weapons. Parry system is brutal because the enemy stances have so much variety. It's really difficult to master all attack patterns.

It's such a dope game. I really want to make a detailed video for YT when I'm done with the game but there is so much to cover.

FWIW, my experience with the game shows me that the vast majority of reviewers rushed through the game to focus on DD2 because that game was going to generate more clicks. Ronin didn't deserve all the weird flak it got. Again, not everyone will feel the same about it but it's a really quality game. Outside of the open world that will turn some people off, the other potential fatal flaw is that the game is probably too big for it's own good and the narrative suffers at times. For instance, I have 40 NPC friends in the game (so far), all these people play a role in the story and you give them gifts which unlocks bond missions, these are arguably the best missions in the game but you gotta put in effort to obtain them.

The game is huge. I'll probably put 150 hours in it before I'm done. The 92 hours is pure gameplay, I don't leave my console paused for extended periods.

Also, the coop aspect allows you to jump right into combat. It literally spits you into a mission and as soon as it's done it spits you out. Easy way to grind and get that combat fix if you only have 20 minutes to game. Missions aren't very long.
By looking at the game's UI and what you've said yeah this is open world Nioh. It'll be on my radar for sure. Sounds like a lot of Nioh but open world. That's a good thing IMO. Stance system returning piques my interest. Nioh 2 has that.

Bry0 Bry0 Cool beans. I'd probably make a Ayane clone myself.
 

Lunarorbit

Gold Member
She addresses that no studio is safe from being shut down, and that the quality of the games they produce is irrelevant

Yeah, I don't think so Alanah. Just cause MS doesn't have a strategy doesn't mean nintendo or Sony are gonna follow suit. The Japanese companies follow organic growth as opposed to Microsoft which is a much bigger company and seems to care way too much what shareholders think.

The executives just saw dollar signs during covid and don't think long term. Too much money was given out and now people are finally acknowledging that gamepass is unsustainable.

The market had been flooded with cheap shitty games for the last decade when the money was flowing. The mentality that there's always going to be outstanding growth by these unqualified dishonest hacks was always going to sink them.

It's been a race to the bottom for some of these fuckers for years
 

feynoob

Banned
A good chunk of people/gamers might as well be retarded. The amount of dog piling on the types of games that people claim they want... We know what evil publishers are all about but people support it, cry, and then turn their nose up at a quality alternative because of metacritic or lazy reviews on YT.
people here busy about content war, and don't like to see the big picture.
 
Thats the result of doing shit games, gaas games and woke shit for the last decade, stop this trend and companies ll start to profit again, its really not that hard.

1. Make a Fun game.
2. Gameplay is King.
3. Art direction is more important then graphics.
4. Dont make woke shit.
5. Stop making gaas.
6. Stop seasson passes everywhere.
7. Respect your custumer.
8. Be fair with your mtx prices.

Its not captalism fault, dont make a shit product and expect ppl to buy it, sadly in some case, good developers pay the price for stupid ideias of "shareholders".
This. I just can't seem to care about companies run by activist closing. (Not saying tango was that way)
 

Roronoa Zoro

Gold Member
That is essentially the problem. Games are becoming so big that they are not worth your time.

The bubble is bursting. Too much content.

I think we will see an upswing with smaller indie games.
Hopefully just more linear ones too. Even stuff like ff16 that's technically I guess "open world" I feel like saved a lot of cost and time by just being kinda semi that and more streamlined in little zones.
 
She addresses that no studio is safe from being shut down, and that the quality of the games they produce is irrelevant

Yeah, I don't think so Alanah. Just cause MS doesn't have a strategy doesn't mean nintendo or Sony are gonna follow suit. The Japanese companies follow organic growth as opposed to Microsoft which is a much bigger company and seems to care way too much what shareholders think.

I think quality plays a bigger role than Alanah thinks. If Redfall had released in a better state and got good reviews does she honestly think it wouldn't have mattered?

I think the game industry needs to realize that when the price of games went up that most consumers were going to start being real picky about the type of games they buy. They are sure as hell going to be a lot more hesitant to spend $70 on a game that's getting reviews like this

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AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
I think quality plays a bigger role than Alanah thinks. If Redfall had released in a better state and got good reviews does she honestly think it wouldn't have mattered?

I think the game industry needs to realize that when the price of games went up that most consumers were going to start being real picky about the type of games they buy. They are sure as hell going to be a lot more hesitant to spend $70 on a game that's getting reviews like this

Reviews mean jack fuck.

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Reviews mean jack fuck.

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So let's phrase this way. What is an Xbox consumer more likely to buy, A AAA co op shooter that scores an 85 on metacritic or a single player Japanese cel shaded rhythm based action game that scores a 90?

Microsoft thought putting HI-FI Rush on gamepass would generate enough word of mouth that people might buy it or subscribe to gamepass but the userbase just isn't into those kind of games.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I think quality plays a bigger role than Alanah thinks. If Redfall had released in a better state and got good reviews does she honestly think it wouldn't have mattered?

I think the game industry needs to realize that when the price of games went up that most consumers were going to start being real picky about the type of games they buy. They are sure as hell going to be a lot more hesitant to spend $70 on a game that's getting reviews like this
Yup.

With GAAS I think a lot of people just stuck to games they like (which hopefully can be played for free like Fortnite) and just milk it. At some point maybe buy some games for cash, but as long as their GAAS game keeps entertaining them, why rock the boat and play something else?

It's like when during 360 gen I played tons of COD. I like it and not budging from year to year. There was no F2P COD back then and mtx was in its infancy, but if there was even better. I'd milk those games for years without paying a dime and let whales do the mtx.

I think the biggest problem with game studios who dont have bonafide selling franchises is that they make whatever game they want with zero research and pray it sells well. It's like Suicide Squad or Gollum. Who asked for it? Not me. And not by 99.99% of other gamers either. But for whatever reason a company green lit to make them. And many studios cant adapt and make a cornerstone franchise or GAAS game that will keep gamers playing for years and years.

If you look at many of the best selling and played games, most arent even the best looking with uber RT or pro actor dialogue. But they have addictive good gameplay so gamers keep coming back.
 
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The problem with so many live service games, is the MAJORITY are just going to stop being supported after a very short time because the suits want immediate growth. So, they shut down 1 live service game and then start on the next one in hopes it makes them the desired $$$.
They have limited shelf life, so people like me who don't like being social, and don't have time to game all the time don't play them anyway. I'm sure there are many others who play single player games but take weeks or months to beat them. I guess they don't want my money. I buy single player games and that's about it. Gaas ruined mobile and now it's ruining consoles.
 

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
What is an Xbox consumer more likely to buy

Neither - as you say, they've got Game Pass. With that thing it's all about engagement, and sadly there just weren't enough people playing Hi-Fi Rush vs. its development cost, regardless of how good it was.

The problem is going to get worse when the same is true for more games. Hellbade 2's taken them five years to make, will be a what, five hour long critical darling and an incredibly low play/completion rate on Game Pass. Ninja Theory are probably already shitting their pants.

Game Pass was supposed to be a way for these kinds of games to thrive, but when you're not seeing the concrete sales numbers are just what percentage of your subscribers even installed them, the suits are going to start hand-wringing.
 

sachos

Member
She makes good points but i can't agree with the notion "Gaming is getting worse" as a whole when so many good games keep coming out. When i hear that phrase i think about the actual games getting worse. Maybe the title should be "Funding/Developing games keeps getting harder and riskier" but it doesnt have the same ring to it.
 

Z O N E

Member
They have limited shelf life, so people like me who don't like being social, and don't have time to game all the time don't play them anyway. I'm sure there are many others who play single player games but take weeks or months to beat them. I guess they don't want my money. I buy single player games and that's about it. Gaas ruined mobile and now it's ruining consoles.

Exactly.

Also, if it's not a popular game franchise, it will usually die in under a year. Games like CoD, Halo, Gears, Fortnite and other big names can afford to make their service games last long.

But Joe Schmoe Live Service game no one knows about, might be popular for a short time, but then dies out when they realise everyone is sticking to the same games.
 
Yep. There was an article recently about the google CEO telling their employees that this is a business. I feel like valve, google and most video game devs treat their firms like a hippie playground where they are all doing their own thing singing kumbaya until they are 6 months from launch and freak out. In almost every GG, ND and SSM documentary, they talk about how rookie devs can go up to directors and share their ideas with them. Great. Until you realize you have gone way out of scope and that dude didnt do the one job you had assigned him to do. Cory repeatedly talked about how he had to fight and justify every single decision he made on GOW 2018. Why? hes the director. Imagine James Cameron, Tarantino and Christopher Nolan getting pushback from their DPs, stuntmen, cameramen, editors and actors. NO! STFU. Go back to your desk and code, bitch.

It's no surprise to me that Christopher Nolan has made three movies since 2017 while Cory and neil druckmann have released only one game. Movies are far more complex to make than these same PS3 era games these devs are pushing out. These guys dont know how to manage projects, their underlings and dont have the discipline themselves. Neil abandoned his team to go work on the show for 2 years before he was forced to return by Sony. You cant even blame the devs here because they were told to work on a shitty remake for 2 years. Five years wasted on Factions, sure, thats on ND devs, but Neil has been the studio head since 2020 so the buck stops with him.
Nolan is a master artist and craftsman pushing his medium forward. Those two cucks are our ambassadors... no wonder people don't take games seriously as a place for artistic expression.
 
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