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[Phunkydiabetic]

According to info obtained from court filings today Alec Baldwin is actually blaming the victim Halyna Hutchins??

Alec Baldwin’s despicable defense in the shooting of Halyna Hutchins

In court documents filed on Friday morning, Alec Baldwin blamed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins for shooting her on the set of “Rust”. Her widower, Matthew, deserves to sue him for everything.

nypost.com

He said she instructed him to point the gun at her. He previously said that he would never point the gun at anybody effectively contradicting himself.

Wtf??

Was this article written by someone who has schizophrenia

 

[Hardensoul]

Alec Baldwin has finger on trigger before shooting?

 

[PuppetMaster]

Alec Baldwin has finger on trigger before shooting?

My first thought is wow beautiful lighting on that set!

But my second thought is wow, the cinematographer had to pull up real close for that shot.

Puts the scene of the accident in a clearer perspective.

 

[daveonezero]

Alec said this was all over. So why bump this?

 

[Droxcy]

Alec Baldwin has finger on trigger before shooting?

Further more he charged the hammer before finger on the trigger then causing the gun to go off. I think they said the hammer smacking down could in fact shoot the bullet for this weapon.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Alec Baldwin has finger on trigger before shooting?

And you see the cylinder move. Dude is a damned idiot, and he shot and killed that woman, injuring another.

 

[jason10mm]

Alec Baldwin has finger on trigger before shooting?

When is this take in relation to the shooting? Same scene? The take before?

You can see that he A. has finger on the trigger and B, is thumbing back the hammer, rotating the cylinder. Thus he is making the revolver ready to fire, presumably "in scene" he is getting ready to shoot someone or was startled or whatever. Either there was no actual shooting intended, just a gun cock (most likely IMHO) and they were going to cut away for a live fire shot that didn't have the camera so close (possible), or Alec pulled the trigger during rehearsal for what was supposed to be a fairly dangerous close quarters discharge (very unlikely I think).

Problem with these types of revolvers is that there is no hammer decock mechanism or safety, the only way to lower the hammer in preparation for filming this scene again is to depress the trigger and drop the hammer, essentially firing the revolver. In "the real world" you would point the handgun in a safe direction and ride the hammer down with your thumb while pulling the trigger so the hammer wouldn't hit with enough force to discharge a round or hit on an empty chamber (this can over time mess up hammers as they are designed to impact a cartridge and some revolvers have a "half-cock" catch to mitigate this action when handling the gun). So if there was a live round in the cylinder its really only a matter of time before the repeated cock/decock cycle could cause a negligent discharge.

However I'm guessing Alec just pulled the trigger after cocking the revolver, probably accidentally, but (obviously) without making sure the revolver was pointed in a safe direction. He may have even been on the habit of pulling the trigger and letting the hammer just fall on a dummy round or empty chamber as a way of returning the revolver to an uncocked condition.

 

[Hardensoul]

When is this take in relation to the shooting? Same scene? The take before?

You can see that he A. has finger on the trigger and B, is thumbing back the hammer, rotating the cylinder. Thus he is making the revolver ready to fire, presumably "in scene" he is getting ready to shoot someone or was startled or whatever. Either there was no actual shooting intended, just a gun cock (most likely IMHO) and they were going to cut away for a live fire shot that didn't have the camera so close (possible), or Alec pulled the trigger during rehearsal for what was supposed to be a fairly dangerous close quarters discharge (very unlikely I think).

Problem with these types of revolvers is that there is no hammer decock mechanism or safety, the only way to lower the hammer in preparation for filming this scene again is to depress the trigger and drop the hammer, essentially firing the revolver. In "the real world" you would point the handgun in a safe direction and ride the hammer down with your thumb while pulling the trigger so the hammer wouldn't hit with enough force to discharge a round or hit on an empty chamber (this can over time mess up hammers as they are designed to impact a cartridge and some revolvers have a "half-cock" catch to mitigate this action when handling the gun). So if there was a live round in the cylinder its really only a matter of time before the repeated cock/decock cycle could cause a negligent discharge.

However I'm guessing Alec just pulled the trigger after cocking the revolver, probably accidentally, but (obviously) without making sure the revolver was pointed in a safe direction. He may have even been on the habit of pulling the trigger and letting the hammer just fall on a dummy round or empty chamber as a way of returning the revolver to an uncocked condition.

This was part of series of videos released by the Sante FE county police of the day of the incident. Of course they didn’t release the shooting part. Here is video showing them back to back.

Alec Baldwin does not look distraught talking to police right after shooting.

 

[GymWolf]

This was part of series of videos released by the Sante FE county police of the day of the incident. Of course they didn’t release the shooting part. Here is video showing them back to back.

Alec Baldwin does not look distraught talking to police right after shooting.

Wow the guy doesn't look phased at all...

 

[DeepEnigma]

Wow the guy doesn't look phased at all...

Sociopath level.

 

[jason10mm]

To be fair, if the director didn't know what happened to Ms. Hutchins when he was at the hopital it's quite possible Alec had no idea either at the time and thinks she wasn't severely hurt.

Possibly.....

Maybe.....

Ugh, what a colossal f-up all around.

 

[DeepEnigma]

To be fair, if the director didn't know what happened to Ms. Hutchins when he was at the hopital it's quite possible Alec had no idea either at the time and thinks she wasn't severely hurt.

Possibly.....

Maybe.....

Ugh, what a colossal f-up all around.

IDK man, if I accidently shot someone and they died on the spot (which was reported), I would have much concern going through my head a million miles an hour.

 

[Hardensoul]

To be fair, if the director didn't know what happened to Ms. Hutchins when he was at the hopital it's quite possible Alec had no idea either at the time and thinks she wasn't severely hurt.

Possibly.....

Maybe.....

Ugh, what a colossal f-up all around.

Well, the pictures released of Alec Baldwin being distraught hunched down talking in phone right after news of incident broke, could possibly disproves that he didn’t know that he had no idea!

 

[TheZink]

I genuinely feel bad for him now that I saw the video of him being told she died. It hurt me to watch.

I am not a fan of him at all but I wouldn’t wish this situation on anyone.

You can see it here.

Alec Baldwin being told she passed.

 

[swarley64]

This was part of series of videos released by the Sante FE county police of the day of the incident. Of course they didn’t release the shooting part. Here is video showing them back to back.

Alec Baldwin does not look distraught talking to police right after shooting.

Yeah definitely creepy…. Did he know she was dead at this point?

 

[Hardensoul]

Yeah definitely creepy…. Did he know she was dead at this point?

I have no idea if he knew she died there or later at hospital.

 

[mansoor1980]

 

[Torrent of Pork]

If he doesn't catch a manslaughter / negligent homicide charge then the world is more fucked up than I imagine

 

[IDKFA]

Holy shit. He lied about pulling the trigger, plus had no reason to pull the trigger anyway. Man needs to see jail time.

 

[jason10mm]

Of course lied about pulling the trigger, he will NEVER admit direct responsibility.

But he is fighting for public opinion, not a court of law. He knows money will make that go away.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I forget what the hell happened in this incident.

What was Baldwin's initial claim? The gun was faulty and shot by itself?

 

[jason10mm]

I forget what the hell happened in this incident.

What was Baldwin's initial claim? The gun was faulty and shot by itself?

I believe so, yes.

Really, he isn't directly responsible, he was handed a live fire capable firearm by an incompetent armorer. He IS indirectly responsible because he A. is an exec producer and hired said incompetent armorer, B. failed to set up reasonable and rationale safety protocols to include checking for live ammunition before accepting a firearm on set, and C. pointed the weapon directly at a human and pulled the trigger without crew safety protocols like a shield, body armor, etc.

I'm not sure he is criminally responsible, but he definitely ought to accept responsibility, provide restitution, and then GTFO of hollywood and off social media where his persona is toxic AF on this issue and other weapon related things. This is a classic case of massive incompetence and I'm sure the industry will learn from it. But I don't think Alec himself will grow from this AT ALL and just needs to go away.

 

[IDKFA]

I believe so, yes.

Really, he isn't directly responsible, he was handed a live fire capable firearm by an incompetent armorer. He IS indirectly responsible because he A. is an exec producer and hired said incompetent armorer, B. failed to set up reasonable and rationale safety protocols to include checking for live ammunition before accepting a firearm on set, and C. pointed the weapon directly at a human and pulled the trigger without crew safety protocols like a shield, body armor, etc.

I'm not sure he is criminally responsible, but he definitely ought to accept responsibility, provide restitution, and then GTFO of hollywood and off social media where his persona is toxic AF on this issue and other weapon related things. This is a classic case of massive incompetence and I'm sure the industry will learn from it. But I don't think Alec himself will grow from this AT ALL and just needs to go away.

Looking at the new information, doesn't it make him directly responsible?

He lied about pulling the trigger, plus didn't need to pull the trigger in the first place. Nothing in the script required him to pull the trigger at that point.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I believe so, yes.

Really, he isn't directly responsible, he was handed a live fire capable firearm by an incompetent armorer. He IS indirectly responsible because he A. is an exec producer and hired said incompetent armorer, B. failed to set up reasonable and rationale safety protocols to include checking for live ammunition before accepting a firearm on set, and C. pointed the weapon directly at a human and pulled the trigger without crew safety protocols like a shield, body armor, etc.

I'm not sure he is criminally responsible, but he definitely ought to accept responsibility, provide restitution, and then GTFO of hollywood and off social media where his persona is toxic AF on this issue and other weapon related things. This is a classic case of massive incompetence and I'm sure the industry will learn from it. But I don't think Alec himself will grow from this AT ALL and just needs to go away.

I have no idea what the fallout is with guns on set leading to accidental deaths, but it really comes down to how much responsibility is on the last person's shoulders (Baldwin) in cases like this vs. the person who gave guidance.

Think of it like tax filing. Baldwin is the user and the armorer is the tax person.

If you go to an accountant or one of those tax filing places, you trust that the person knows what they are doing. If they do it for you and then you submit the forms based on what they set up for you, if it turns out they fucked up you can go after them. The government will still grill you the penalty fee, but you can push it off to the tax filing place to compensate you.

A person trusts that in situations like that the tax place is expert enough to handle it and take responsibility. There's no point having an accountant do the work if the filer has to second guess them on every row and re-do the form.

 

[TheDreadBaron]

I have no idea what the fallout is with guns on set leading to accidental deaths, but it really comes down to how much responsibility is on the last person's shoulders (Baldwin) in cases like this vs. the person who gave guidance.

Think of it like tax filing.

If you go to an accountant or one of those tax filing places, you trust that the person knows what they are doing. If they do it for you and then you submit the forms based on what they set up for you, if it turns out they fucked up you can go after them. The government will still grill you the penalty fee, but you can push it off to the tax filing place to compensate you.

A person trusts that in situations like that the tax place is expert enough to handle it and take responsibility. There's no point having an accountant do the work if the filer has to second guess them on every row and re-do the form.

I don’t think that analogy holds up, because while I understand there was other professionals earlier in the chain who fucked up and he should have never been handed a loaded gun, the consequences are far more serious than a penalty fee. Just for your own peace of mind you need to double check the gun’s safety, and then still treat it like its loaded, or else you risk ending up in Baldwin’s shoes making excuses for why you thought it was safe while someone has been killed by your own hand.

Logically I see your point about it being some other professional’s responsibility, but that falls apart when you have a gun in your hand, then it is always your own responsibility where it gets pointed. If your CPA hands you a gun and says point it at me like you’re gonna shoot me, don’t worry it’s not loaded, you don’t consider it too tedious to double check their work because are you gonna really feel just fine knowing it wasn’t your fault when it turns out it was?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I don’t think that analogy holds up, because while I understand there was other professionals earlier in the chain who fucked up and he should have never been handed a loaded gun, the consequences are far more serious than a penalty fee. Just for your own peace of mind you need to double check the gun’s safety, and then still treat it like its loaded, or else you risk ending up in Baldwin’s shoes making excuses for why you thought it was safe while someone has been killed by your own hand.

Logically I see your point about it being some other professional’s responsibility, but that falls apart when you have a gun in your hand, then it is always your own responsibility where it gets pointed. If your CPA hands you a gun and says point it at me like you’re gonna shoot me, don’t worry it’s not loaded, you don’t consider it too tedious to double check their work because are you gonna really feel just fine knowing it wasn’t your fault when it turns out it was?

I guess so.

If that's the case, it really comes down to whether the final person (Baldwin checking a gun) has the ultimate responsibility in gun situations vs the armorer standing behind the scenes.

I'm trying to think of real life cases I had where something bad could had happened. For example, during a summer job I worked in a plant doing labourer shit but also used forklifts and the internal crane which is mounted inside the building. It can only carry so much weight. If one of the vets says go ahead and move that huge piece of machinery and the chain snaps, whose fault is it? The vet for telling me it should be good, or is it my responsibility to take a more cautious way of doing it (inching it up slowly so if it snaps it only snaps a half inch off the ground) vs. just listening to the vet saying haul it up at normal speed and it might snap at one foot off the ground denting it?

 

[jason10mm]

Think of it like tax filing.

Sure, but the filer is ultimately the one responsible. I believe most tax preparation companies offer audit support but it's the filer that bears the responsibility (and then they sue the preparer).

More accurate would be a truck driver with failed brakes that were supposed to be maintained by someone else at the Company. In that case the driver could be blameless unless they were also speeding, were overloaded and knew it, were driving too long, etc.

 

[TheDreadBaron]

I guess so.

If that's the case, it really comes down to whether the final person (Baldwin checking a gun) has the ultimate responsibility in gun situations vs the armorer standing behind the scenes.

I'm trying to think of real life cases I had where something bad could had happened. For example, during a summer job I worked in a plant doing labourer shit but also used forklifts and the internal crane which is mounted inside the building. It can only carry so much weight. If one of the vets says go ahead and move that huge piece of machinery and the chain snaps, whose fault is it? The vet for telling me it should be good, or is it my responsibility to take a more cautious way of doing it (inching it up slowly so if it snaps it only snaps a half inch off the ground) vs. just listening to the vet saying haul it up at normal speed and it might snap at one foot off the ground denting it?

Yeah I agree it can get complex, and people can be killed by forklifts and heavy machinery just as surely as a weapon and they should all be respected because of that. In the crane situation there might be some ambiguity about who is supposed to know the safety limits, is there training and procedure in place, does the operator have the proper safety training to know whether to listen to more experienced person or refuse? With guns in particular there is an established set of rules that are not ambiguous so that nobody finds themself in that position saying I didn’t know it was loaded, it is your own responsibility to check. I think the movie setting adds a slight wrinkle, as there could be confusion about what is real and what’s a prop, but I don’t think Alec can shrug off the responsibility here because that’s the standard we should all be held to.

 

[daveonezero]

Holy shit. He lied about pulling the trigger, plus had no reason to pull the trigger anyway. Man needs to see jail time.

This is what people were saying without The investigation. Anyone who knew the firearm or familiar with a movie set said these things.

 

[LimanimaPT]

I really don't get wat's going on. Was Baldwin responsible for that prop? It's a prop, who cares if he pressed or not the trigger? He can press the trigger, the gun is not supposed to fire. Who ever was responsible for the prop, should be accounted for. Plus what the hell does that biased video supposed to mean ? The trigger has to be pressed for a gun to shoot? Duh...

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Yeah I agree it can get complex, and people can be killed by forklifts and heavy machinery just as surely as a weapon and they should all be respected because of that. In the crane situation there might be some ambiguity about who is supposed to know the safety limits, is there training and procedure in place, does the operator have the proper safety training to know whether to listen to more experienced person or refuse? With guns in particular there is an established set of rules that are not ambiguous so that nobody finds themself in that position saying I didn’t know it was loaded, it is your own responsibility to check. I think the movie setting adds a slight wrinkle, as there could be confusion about what is real and what’s a prop, but I don’t think Alec can shrug off the responsibility here because that’s the standard we should all be held to.

My crane situation had zero formal training. It was literally a bunch of summer students doing dirty work for 3 months. We learned how to use the crane and forklifts ad hoc just listening to what the vets taught us.

 

[AJUMP23]

I really don't get wat's going on. Was Baldwin responsible for that prop? It's a prop, who cares if he pressed or not the trigger? He can press the trigger, the gun is not supposed to fire. Who ever was responsible for the prop, should be accounted for. Plus what the hell does that biased video supposed to mean ? The trigger has to be pressed for a gun to shoot? Duh...

It was a real gun loaded with real bullets. It was a movie prop but it was not fake gun.

One you are handed a gun you are responsible for the firearm.

 

[IDKFA]

This is what people were saying without The investigation. Anyone who knew the firearm or familiar with a movie set said these things.

He just made it a lost worse for himself. Wonder how he's going to try and worm his way out of this now.

 

[Roll Fizzlebeef]

All guns are always loaded.

Its not a statement of fact, but one of belief. It means that is someone hands you a gun, doesnt matter who, you believe it to be loaded until you check yourself.

If that was followed, no one would have died.

 

[Ballthyrm]

I believe so, yes.

Really, he isn't directly responsible, he was handed a live fire capable firearm by an incompetent armorer. He IS indirectly responsible because he A. is an exec producer and hired said incompetent armorer, B. failed to set up reasonable and rationale safety protocols to include checking for live ammunition before accepting a firearm on set, and C. pointed the weapon directly at a human and pulled the trigger without crew safety protocols like a shield, body armor, etc.

I'm not sure he is criminally responsible, but he definitely ought to accept responsibility, provide restitution, and then GTFO of hollywood and off social media where his persona is toxic AF on this issue and other weapon related things. This is a classic case of massive incompetence and I'm sure the industry will learn from it. But I don't think Alec himself will grow from this AT ALL and just needs to go away.

As a producer he is also responsible for thinking "real guns" are somehow better than airsoft guns + CG.
You get all the recoil of a normal gun with C02 airsoft guns.

If you are aiming at a Human, even with blanks, why take the risk, make no sense.

 

[anthony2690]

I'm really confused as to why he was given a real loaded gun for a movie.

Is this common? Or am I missing something?

I assumed they just used special effects for gunfire etc.

Shows how little I know, I guess.

 

[daveonezero]

He just made it a lost worse for himself. Wonder how he's going to try and worm his way out of this now.

Out of what? He is wealthy and will have a civil settlement.

There will not be a criminal charge.

 

[AJUMP23]

I'm really confused as to why he was given a real loaded gun for a movie.

Is this common? Or am I missing something?

I assumed they just used special effects for gunfire etc.

Shows how little I know, I guess.

They use real guns all the time because they look real on camera. It is common. I mean Brandon Lee was killed by a real gun with real bullets on the set of the crow.
it is common. It probably should not be.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

They use real guns all the time because they look real on camera. It is common. I mean Brandon Lee was killed by a real gun with real bullets on the set of the crow.
it is common. It probably should not be.

If that's the case, with all the money and prop makers in Hollywood, I'm surprised studios dont make big stashes of fake weapons for all their movies that can shoot out realistic looking flash and smoke. If I'm not mistaken, Hollywood already edits in audio later to make it sound good, so that part is already covered.

 

[RCU005]

Sociopath level.

This is such an stupid comment. People don’t always have to act hysterical. Also, he might have believed in his mind that she would be OK. The way he acts mean nothing

 

[DeepEnigma]

This is such an stupid comment. People don’t always have to act hysterical. Also, he might have believed in his mind that she would be OK. The way he acts mean nothing

Dude is a sociopath regardless of that event. It’s all the things said and done after, even up until recently. So yes, the comment is apt about his character.

 

[jason10mm]

They use real guns all the time because they look real on camera. It is common. I mean Brandon Lee was killed by a real gun with real bullets on the set of the crow.
it is common. It probably should not be.

IIRC, Brandon was supposedly killed when a dummy round broke and stuck into the barrel (used for a front shot of the revolver to look like it was loaded with bullets) Then a blank was loaded for the actual shooting and it was improperly cleared on set and the dummy bullet hit Brandon, missing his body armor but killing him.

That fatality drove a lot of hollywood safety about guns. Rust will likely do the same, mainly pushing that CGI muzzle flash and blood stuff.

 

[Kenpachii]

Like anybody would say, yea i fucked up, put me in jail for 30 years. Obviously he's going to find excuses to not be put in a hole.

 

[LimanimaPT]

It was a real gun loaded with real bullets. It was a movie prop but it was not fake gun.

One you are handed a gun you are responsible for the firearm.

That makes absolutely no sense. It's a movie, it's a prop even if it's a real gun. A real gun on a movie set must have fake bullets. Who ever is responsible for the props is responsible for this. That's what will hold in court. I don't see Baldwin having responsability in this nor he should do any jail time for this. Unless he is responsible for the props or be a part of the production.

All guns are always loaded.

Its not a statement of fact, but one of belief. It means that is someone hands you a gun, doesnt matter who, you believe it to be loaded until you check yourself.

If that was followed, no one would have died.

And what if it's supposed to shoot the gun in the scene? With blanks of course. Would he shoot the gun to confirm that they are fake bullets? Then what? Reload and shoot again to confirm they are fakes again and do this in a infinite loop?

Baldwin only is guilty if he replaced the fake bullet with a real one and intended to commit a murder.

I don't see Baldwin going to court for this. And I don't understand why everyone seems to want to crucify him.

 

[AJUMP23]

That makes absolutely no sense. It's a movie, it's a prop even if it's a real gun. A real gun on a movie set must have fake bullets. Who ever is responsible for the props is responsible for this. That's what will hold in court. I don't see Baldwin having responsability in this nor he should do any jail time for this. Unless he is responsible for the props or be a part of the production.
.

If you are handed a gun you are responsible for it. That is the first rule of gun safety. You are holding the gun you are responsible. The armorer also bares some responsibility but Baldwin pointed the gun and pulled the trigger.

There have been actors that say they check every gun they are handed on their own.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

I'm really confused as to why he was given a real loaded gun for a movie.

Is this common? Or am I missing something?

I assumed they just used special effects for gunfire etc.

Shows how little I know, I guess.

You must've missed this whole ordeal back when it happened. The armorer on set failed in her duty by giving Baldwin a gun capable of firing a real bullet. It's not typical on a Hollywood set.

Edit:
M Moneal sent me a correction:
"She set up the prop plate for the gun. The gun was given to him by the assistant director, who was said to have checked the gun before giving it to Baldwin." --Moneal, August 14th, 2022

 

[Torrent of Pork]

I'm a licensed trucker. If I get somebody killed due to my own personal negligence I'm going to jail, because I'm not a rich Pedowood star. Baldwin held the trigger down while cycling a single action revolver without checking for live ammo, while pointing it at a person. They're called, "The Rules," for a fucking reason, and Baldwin broke multiple.

You or I would get thrown in a hole for doing what he did, for good reason. Honestly I still don't expect him to suffer the consequences of his actions like little people though.

 

[Roll Fizzlebeef]

That makes absolutely no sense. It's a movie, it's a prop even if it's a real gun. A real gun on a movie set must have fake bullets. Who ever is responsible for the props is responsible for this. That's what will hold in court. I don't see Baldwin having responsability in this nor he should do any jail time for this. Unless he is responsible for the props or be a part of the production.

And what if it's supposed to shoot the gun in the scene? With blanks of course. Would he shoot the gun to confirm that they are fake bullets? Then what? Reload and shoot again to confirm they are fakes again and do this in a infinite loop?

Baldwin only is guilty if he replaced the fake bullet with a real one and intended to commit a murder.

I don't see Baldwin going to court for this. And I don't understand why everyone seems to want to crucify him.

Its actually very simple, when someone hands you a gun, you check if it has a round in the chamber. If they need to use a blank the actor can load a blank into an unloaded firearm, so that he knows he loaded a blank. If he needs to load a dummy round, he does so, so that he knows what is in the chamber. No infinite loops, just a man taking responsibility for whats in his hand and using the necessary precautions. It is always up to the person holding a firearm to know if a round is chambered. Using real firearms comes with risks and responsibilities. Those shouldnt disappear just because someone is pointing a camera in your direction.

That said hes rich and famous so chances of anything happening to him outside civil matters are rather slim

 

[Putonahappyface]

Alec Baldwin on set not pulling the trigger.

 

[ManaByte]

I'm a licensed trucker. If I get somebody killed due to my own personal negligence I'm going to jail, because I'm not a rich Pedowood star. Baldwin held the trigger down while cycling a single action revolver without checking for live ammo, while pointing it at a person. They're called, "The Rules," for a fucking reason, and Baldwin broke multiple.

You or I would get thrown in a hole for doing what he did, for good reason. Honestly I still don't expect him to suffer the consequences of his actions like little people though.

Any career criminal should work on becoming a rich Hollywood star ASAP.