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[FunkMiller]

Please give this a rest. Having a political opinion and even having a majority of people sharing it does not make something Era-esque. That requires heavy moderation of opposing opinions and the insidious self censoring that follows from it.

After hearing more it does sound like Alec holds some or a big part of the responsibility for a person's death. Whether it was a top down decision to save money on key safety role or failure to do safety check on the gun himself. I Also think that the investigation should explore all avenues.

While I can feel some sympathy for what the man is going through, he is not anything close to being a victim of these events in any way.

You have zero clue of Baldwin’s culpability or otherwise. Stop pretending that you do.

And it’s very, very Era-esque to cast blame without proper evidence or due diligence of the facts.

If it makes you uncomfortable for that parallel to be drawn, ask yourself why.

 

[GnomeChimpsky]

What an unfortunate situation.
Knowing nothing about guns or safety protocols on movie sets, I would lean to put the responsability on the props/armorer/gun checker (whatever its called).

As usual with these kinds of things it's probably due to a cascade of failures. Nobody is solely responsible but everyone involved with the chain of custody of the weapon share some of the responsibility.

 

[Xenon]

You have zero clue of Baldwin’s culpability or otherwise. Stop pretending that you do.

And it’s very, very Era-esque to cast blame without proper evidence or due diligence of the facts.

If it makes you uncomfortable for that parallel to be drawn, ask yourself why.

Wow thanks I had no idea that not being completely informed and having an opinion is only an Era thing and not something that's pretty common on the rest of the Internet.

My opinion is based on the fact that is that he is a producer on the show and and something that was mentioned earlier that that the person using the gun should always examine it as well.


The only thing making me uncomfortable is your simping of Mr. Baldwin

 

[dave_d]

Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he did so, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor. The projectile whizzed by the camera operator but penetrated Hutchins near her shoulder, then continued through to Souza. Hutchins immediately fell to the ground as crew members applied pressure to her wound in an attempt to stop the bleeding.”

For anybody wondering how you can die being shot in the shoulder? Subclavian artery is one answer. (Yeah, getting shot in the shoulder isn't "safe", that's only in the movies.)

 

[hemo memo]

I think Jhon Wick uses mostly gas guns and rubber guns, most of the mussle flashes on the movie are digital.

Yet it looks very real and 2 didn’t have to lose their lives for it.

 

[highrider]

Yes, he’s a terrible person for doing what you just did to him. Imagine that.

Yeah but I also don’t put myself up as being a paragon of virtue.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Oof. They're reporting that two separate people cleared the gun (as in, declared it safe) before it got handed to Alec. Chain of incompetence.

 

[Azurro]

Yes, he’s a terrible person for doing what you just did to him. Imagine that.

He killed a person and robbed her son of her presence and destroyed her husband's life.

 

[Azurro]

Oof. They're reporting that two separate people cleared the gun (as in, declared it safe) before it got handed to Alec. Chain of incompetence.

Who is reporting it? The police? Or is it some Hollywood reporters?

 

[Jaysen]

Yeah but I also don’t put myself up as being a paragon of virtue.

Neither does he. He believes in things and shares those beliefs. Just like you do and most everyone else does. Difference is he has an audience of millions.

 

[Jaysen]

He killed a person and robbed her son of her presence and destroyed her husband's life.

I bet you thought this was an effective post.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Wouldn't be a big stretch of imagination to think a certain person who follows a certain cult of personality handing a live firearm to a person who takes the piss out of said cult leader in the hopes of ruining his career or out of pity revenge...

Wrong.

My stance has always been the very baseline about firearms safely 101. All in which WERE BACKED UP BY ACTUAL INDUSTRY EXPERTS IN HOLLYWOOD AND BALDWIN’S OWN STATEMENT OF “who handed me a hot gun” WHERE HE FAILED TO PRACTICE THE BASELINE SAFETY 101 AND NOT CHECK IT HIMSELF AND NOT POINT IT DIRECTLY AT ANOTHER HUMAN BEING.

I brought the receipts, those pretending not to have bias are welcome to bring yours.

I’ll wait.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Who is reporting it? The police? Or is it some Hollywood reporters?

It's from the statement taken and written on the request for a search warrant:

The gun was one of three that the film’s armorer, Hannah Gutierrez, had set on a cart outside the wooden structure where a scene was being acted, according to the records. Assistant director Dave Halls grabbed the gun from the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware that it was loaded with live rounds, a detective wrote in the search warrant application.

 

[Jaysen]

Wrong.

My stance has always been the very baseline about firearms safely 101. All in which WERE BACKED UP BY ACTUAL INDUSTRY EXPERTS IN HOLLYWOOD AND BALDWIN’S OWN STATEMENT OF “who handed me a hot gun” WHERE HE FAILED TO PRACTICE THE BASELINE SAFETY 101 AND NOT CHECK IT HIMSELF AND NOT POINT IT DIRECTLY AT ANOTHER HUMAN BEING.

I brought the receipts, those pretending not to have bias are welcome to bring yours.

I’ll wait.

Bullshit. The last line of defense is never the actor. That’s idiotic. When you hand an actor and extras weapons and announce that they’re cold, the expectation isn’t that the actor is going to do a proper check on the guns. Like everyone else, they’re going to assume it’s actually cold and that the armorer and prop master did their jobs. Expecting actors and extras to be able to do what an armorer does for the many different types of guns that are used is utterly ridiculous and no lower budget production would ever waste time and money on teaching it to them.

 

[Azurro]

I bet you thought this was an effective post.

I'm just making sure that what happened is not lost in the discussion in the name of defending a beloved Hollywood personality. Multiple levels of negligence resulted in that outcome, including his.

 

[Jaysen]

I'm just making sure that what happened is not lost in the discussion in the name of defending a beloved Hollywood personality. Multiple levels of negligence resulted in that outcome, including his.

What was his?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Bullshit. The last line of defense is never the actor.

My goodness man. We’ve been though this, I provided receipts, and you never responded to them and ignored the receipts.

IT’S FIREARM SAFETY 101 AND INDUSTRY EXPERTS WHO WORK IN HOLLYWOOD BACK THAT UP IN MY RECEIPTS.

You for some reason, want to absolve these “actors” like they’re some special social cast of people and don’t HAVE TO FOLLOW FIREARM SAFETY 101. Like the same baseline rules don’t apply to them.

GTFO of here with that shit.

Alec Baldwin Kills Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins With Prop Gun

I'm going air on the side of compassion and hope I would have that when an accident like this occurs. It's terrible but the man is a human like any of us. It's tragic but treat this the way you would want to be treated during a high duress period of time.

www.neogaf.com

 

[Nobody_Important]

I don't really see how Baldwin faces any criminal charges here. The studio and/or whoever's job it is to manage these props? Absolutely. I can see them both facing lawsuits and possible criminal charges, but the actor himself? At most I see him getting charged and the charges being dropped or him found not guilty.


It's just a tragedy. I feel for the family of the woman and I feel for the actor.

 

[ManaByte]

My goodness man. We’ve been though this, I provided receipts, and you never responded to them and ignored the receipts.

IT’S FIREARM SAFETY 101 AND INDUSTRY EXPERTS WHO WORK IN HOLLYWOOD BACK THAT UP IN MY RECEIPTS.

You for some reason, want to absolve these “actors” like they’re some special social cast of people and don’t HAVE TO FOLLOW FIREARM SAFETY 101. Like the same baseline rules don’t apply to them.

GTFO of here with that shit.

The responsible ones actually go through firearms training.




Alec Baldwin is so anti-gun he probably wouldn't be caught dead going through that kind of training on the off-chance someone takes pictures of him doing it.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The responsible ones actually go through firearms training.




Alec Baldwin is so anti-gun he probably wouldn't be caught dead going through that kind of training on the off-chance someone takes pictures of him doing it.

Again, as a producer on the film, the fault ultimately lays on him. The last man to hold the firearm. That is firearm safety 101 and being in “Hollywood” doesn’t absolve from the baseline.

I can empathize with what he will feel for the rest of his life, but at the same time, he brought that on himself in the end.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Again, as a producer on the film, the fault ultimately lays on him. The last man to hold the firearm. That is firearm safety 101 and being in “Hollywood” doesn’t absolve from the baseline.

I can empathize with what he will feel for the rest of his life, but at the same time, he brought that on himself in the end.

Im late to the thread and can't go through the other 8 pages right now so this is a genuine question.

Are you simply saying that he deserves criticism for failing to do his own check on the gun despite being told by the people in charge of the props it was safe? Or are you saying he deserves to have criminal charges brought against him for her death?


Because I have seen both takes on social media and I can't tell which camp you fall into.

 

[Thaedolus]

I don't really see how Baldwin faces any criminal charges here. The studio and/or whoever's job it is to manage these props? Absolutely. I can see them both facing lawsuits and possible criminal charges, but the actor himself? At most I see him getting charged and the charges being dropped or him found not guilty.


It's just a tragedy. I feel for the family of the woman and I feel for the actor.

As a producer, and with the apparent multiple accidents leading up to this and the crew walking off the set days before over safety, I don’t think it’s quite so clear cut. Someone/people were probably criminally negligent. And there almost certainly will be a huge civil payout

 

[TheDreadLord]

Well, even if he wasn’t aware that the gun was loaded he pulled the trigger without checking that it was unloaded. If he didn’t know how to handle a gun, he shouldn’t be handling one. It is a series of reckless decisions that culminated into this disaster. I believe that no one thinks that he had the intention, but he is responsible and should face criminal charges (as other people involved in this chain of events).

 

[Azurro]

What was his?

Not following gun safety? Recklessness by pointing and firing a gun directly at a human being? Negligence by being a producer in a film that didn't make sure gun safety was followed during production?

Again, a kid just lost his mom in his 20s. A husband lost his wife. This is not a "oopsie daisy" just because you like his role in 30 Rock and his Trump impressions.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Im late to the thread and can't go through the other 8 pages right now so this is a genuine question.

Are you simply saying that he deserves criticism for failing to do his own check on the gun despite being told by the people in charge of the props it was safe? Or are you saying he deserves to have criminal charges brought against him for her death?


Because I have seen both takes on social media and I can't tell which camp you fall into.

My whole argument is that he did not follow firearm safety 101, which is indeed not only a universal standard in this country, but also practiced in Hollywood.

He is not “innocent through ignorance,” that does not fly. He was negligent, like you or I would be if we failed to do so as well.

There shouldn’t be a lowly fall guy who is lower on the totem pole. I mean, doesn’t that go against the very nature of social injustice we all rail against?

He was the last man to hold the gun, he also pointed it directly at two people, which is also a no no according to Hollywood experts, and well, the baseline of firearm safety. He bears responsibility as well for being irresponsible.

Well, even if he wasn’t aware that the gun as loaded he pulled the trigger without checking that it was unloaded. If he didn’t know how to handle a gun, he shouldn’t be handling one. It is a series of reckless decisions that culminated into this disaster. I believe that no one thinks that he had the intention, but he is responsible and should face criminal charges (as other people involved in this chain of events).

Agreed.

 

[Nobody_Important]

My whole argument is that he did not follow firearm safety 101, which is indeed not only a universal standard in this country, but also practiced in Hollywood.

He is not “innocent through ignorance,” that does not fly. He was negligent, like you or I would be if we failed to do so as well.

There shouldn’t be a lowly fall guy who is lower on the totem pole. I mean, doesn’t that go against the very nature of social injustice we all rail against?

He was the last man to hold the gun, he also pointed it directly at two people, which is also a no no according to Hollywood experts, and well, the baseline of firearm safety. He bears responsibility as well for being irresponsible.

Agreed.

Okay. Thanks for clearing that up.

As a producer, and with the apparent multiple accidents leading up to this and the crew walking off the set days before over safety, I don’t think it’s quite so clear cut. Someone/people were probably criminally negligent. And there almost certainly will be a huge civil payout

If there were other safety issues then yeah that makes a big difference as far as the civil side of this tragedy and possibly the criminal side for the prop master and the other safety officials on set. I just don't see the actor himself going to jail unless it's somehow shown he knew the gun was loaded or that he knew the prop master was unreliable.


But you are 100% right about the payout. Between the studio, the actor, and the safety officials on set (especially if they work for a larger company) that family is going to get a huge payout. Rightfully so.

 

[Airbus Jr]

My whole argument is that he did not follow firearm safety 101, which is indeed not only a universal standard in this country, but also practiced in Hollywood.

He is not “innocent through ignorance,” that does not fly. He was negligent, like you or I would be if we failed to do so as well.

There shouldn’t be a lowly fall guy who is lower on the totem pole. I mean, doesn’t that go against the very nature of social injustice we all rail against?

He was the last man to hold the gun, he also pointed it directly at two people, which is also a no no according to Hollywood experts, and well, the baseline of firearm safety. He bears responsibility as well for being irresponsible.

Agreed.

Hes an actor who was supposed to do the shooting act

The guy responsible for checking and ensure the gun is safe to use gave him the gun and declare its cleared to use in the act

The prop master preparing the gun should be the one responsible for this acident

Case closed guys

No more blaming/projecting your agenda on alec ( if youre trump or NRA supporters who hates his anti gun stance cos thats for different conversation and has nothing to do with this acident)

 

[Kimahri]

I'm just making sure that what happened is not lost in the discussion in the name of defending a beloved Hollywood personality. Multiple levels of negligence resulted in that outcome, including his.

I you weren't so obsessed with basically calling him a murderer, people wouldn't feel the need to defend him so much, and we might be able to talk about what possibly happened instead.

For what it's worth. I've never held a gun in my life and would have no idea abour correct handling unless I was given training for it. So if I was in his shoes, I'd blindly trust the gun crew. Why wouldn't I? They're the experts, any need to know info I'd expect to get from them.

That saif, I have no clue how familiar he is with guns and gun safety.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Hes an actor who was supposed to do the shooting act

The guy responsible for checking and ensure the gun is safe to use gave him the gun and declare its cleared to use in the act

The prop master preparing the gun should be the one responsible for this acident

Case closed guys

No more blaming/projecting your agenda on alec ( if youre trump or NRA supporters)

Well, I brought the receipts that say otherwise.

Project these nuts on your chin.

 

[Jaysen]

Not following gun safety? Recklessness by pointing and firing a gun directly at a human being? Negligence by being a producer in a film that didn't make sure gun safety was followed during production?

Again, a kid just lost his mom in his 20s. A husband lost his wife. This is not a "oopsie daisy" just because you like his role in 30 Rock and his Trump impressions.

And we get to the source of your anger and irrationality.

 

[Airbus Jr]

Well, I brought the receipts that say otherwise.

Project these nuts on your chin.

What receipt show us

 

[Azurro]

Hes an actor who was supposed to do the shooting act

The guy responsible for checking and ensure the gun is safe tp use gave him the gun and declare its cleared to use in the act

The prop master preparing the gun should be the one responsible for this acident

Case closed guys

No more blaming/projecting your agenda on alec ( if youre trump or NRA supporters)

Actors have to go, or at least are supposed to go to firearms training. There are safety rules that are supposed to be followed. I don't even own a gun or want to, but I have enough respect for them to know they are not a toy.

He is also a producer on this movie, it's his fucking job to know if the safety guidelines are being followed. I don't care about the giant orange ape, but I am also not ok with this sanctimonious bastard not following basic rules that resulted in a kid losing his mom. THAT is what pisses me off.

 

[DeepEnigma]

What receipt show us

Read the fucking thread if you are about to come in flapping them gums.

Alec Baldwin Kills Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins With Prop Gun

I'm going air on the side of compassion and hope I would have that when an accident like this occurs. It's terrible but the man is a human like any of us. It's tragic but treat this the way you would want to be treated during a high duress period of time.

www.neogaf.com

This process is then checked by an assistant director or director and then by any actors involved in the scene.

The weapon is usually dry fired. At all times, treat every weapon as if it’s loaded — barrel down, uncocked, finger off trigger.

Those are the Rules.

 

[Azurro]

And we get to the source of your anger and irrationality.

Is it irrational to get angry because a kid lost his mom?

 

[Airbus Jr]

Actors have to go, or at least are supposed to go to firearms training. There are safety rules that are supposed to be followed. I don't even own a gun or want to, but I have enough respect for them to know they are not a toy.

He is also a producer on this movie, it's his fucking job to know if the safety guidelines are being followed. I don't care about the giant orange ape, but I am also not ok with this sanctimonious bastard not following basic rules that resulted in a kid losing his mom. THAT is what pisses me off.

Hes not guilty

He was an actor who was supposed to perform the act using the gun assigned to him to use in the act

The prop master who handed him the gun and declare the gun is safe to use for the act is the one that should be put under scrutiny

Hes the one at fault in this case

 

[DeepEnigma]

Amateur hour.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Hes an actor who was supposed to do the shooting act

The guy responsible for checking and ensure the gun is safe to use gave him the gun and declare its cleared to use in the act

The prop master preparing the gun should be the one responsible for this acident

Case closed guys

No more blaming/projecting your agenda on alec ( if youre trump or NRA supporters who hates his anti gun stance cos thats for different conversation and has nothing to do with this acident)

Until I saw this post I didn't even know Alec Baldwin was a big anti-gun guy. I guess that explains some of the more extreme takes that I am seeing on social media.

 

[Airbus Jr]

Read the fucking thread if you are about to come in flapping them gums.

Alec Baldwin Kills Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins With Prop Gun

I'm going air on the side of compassion and hope I would have that when an accident like this occurs. It's terrible but the man is a human like any of us. It's tragic but treat this the way you would want to be treated during a high duress period of time.

www.neogaf.com

To me these all seems to be a meaningless statement and hold no value

Like i said earlier the prop master in charge for examining the prop should be the one under scrutiny not the actor

 

[Thaedolus]

Hes not guilty

He was an actor who was supposed to perform the act using the gun assigned to him to use in the act

The prop master who handed him the gun and declare the gun is safe to use for the act is the one that should be put under scrutiny

Hes the one at fault in this case

It’s not a zero sum game, multiple people can be at fault. Alec was both a producer in charge of having competent safety people involved and may have not followed proper gun handling safety rules himself .

 

[Clear]

I doubt there's justification for 2nd dgree involuntary manslaughter here, as the charge requires a high threshold for negligence be passed. So unless Baldwin was proven (as producer) somehow directly culpable in the chain of events that delivered a live firearm into his hands that charge is unlikely to be levied.

However a civil Wrongful Death suit requires less, and I can well see this being brought against someone on the production. Because clearly, something went drastically wrong in terms of safe practice if a lethal weapon was allowed within the working environment and handed to an untrained individual.

 

[DeepEnigma]

To me these all seems to be a meaningless statement and hold no value

Like i said earlier the prop master in charge for examining the prop should be the one under scrutiny not the actor

Dude, The expert who works in Hollywood said TIGHTER RULES were enacted since the Brandon Lee accident and they weren’t followed, “those are the rules”, why are you being purposely obtuse?

My goodness, man. Amateur hour, indeed.

 

[Airbus Jr]

It’s not a zero sum game, multiple people can be at fault. Alec was both a producer in charge of having competent safety people involved and may have not followed proper gun handling safety rules himself .

Alec as a producer has hired/ asigned that particular person to prepare the gun due to his expertise and mastery on related matters

The guy in charge for handling the gun is the one who should be held acountable for the acident for such is his expertise and responsibilities and not the producers fault

 

[DeepEnigma]

Purposely obtuse.

Rules are outlined, ignores a good portion of the rules where it states that actors are also responsible for safety checks when handed a weapon and not to point it directly at someone.

Social cast worship indeed.

 

[Richard Packer]

Smells like ERA in here.

 

[Jeeves]

Hes not guilty

He was an actor who was supposed to perform the act using the gun assigned to him to use in the act

The prop master who handed him the gun and declare the gun is safe to use for the act is the one that should be put under scrutiny

Hes the one at fault in this case

Anyone and everyone handling a deadly weapon has a responsibility to personally check that it's safe. That's not something you take anyone's word for.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Purposely obtuse.

Rules are outlined, ignores a good portion of the rules where it states that actors are also responsible for safety checks when handed a weapon and not to point it directly at someone.

Social cast worship indeed.

Do you think that Alec Baldwin is going to be charged with a crime and go to jail?

 

[Thaedolus]

Alec as a producer has hired/ asigned that particular person to prepare the gun due to his expertise and mastery on related matters

The guy in charge for handling the gun is the one who should be held acountable for the acident for such is his expertise and responsibilities and not the producers fault

There’s no world in which you’re absolved of responsibility by hiring someone incompetent to handle things just because you hired them.

Also, Alec’s been handling prop firearms in movies for decades, you’d think he’d know this stuff and might take issue with the previous safety incidents on this very movie shoot.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Do you think that Alec Baldwin is going to be charged with a crime and go to jail?

No. I would be shocked otherwise.

 

[Jaysen]

Is it irrational to get angry because a kid lost his mom?

Applying your own horrible logic to the situation, the kids lost his mother because she took for granted that cold weapon on set actually meant cold weapon on set. She stood directly behind the camera that was being aimed at because like everyone else, she trusted the competence of the armorer.

 

[Airbus Jr]

Anyone and everyone handling a deadly weapon has a responsibility to personally check that it's safe. That's not something you take anyone's word for.

The prop master that responsible for ensuring the gun is safe to use by alec has declare the gun is safe to uses by actor ( alec)

The actors ( alec) have been told the gun is ready to use and are given the permission to perform the act then proceed to use the gun acordingly to his script

The one at fault here are the prop master and not the actors