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[jedimike]

same old jarrod... glad to see you never change buddy. Defending Nin to the end. I can't wait for the day when you finally admit that holding out on online play was one of Nintendo's dire mistakes.

Developers are avoiding the cube simply because of the lack of online gaming. If nothing else, wouldn't it be nice for developers to get experience with Nintendo online. Think of it as a free scratchpad. Then when revolution does come, developers will be adept at coding for it.

 

[skip]

Developers are avoiding the cube simply because of the lack of online gaming.

EA and ubisoft aren't avoiding the cube despite the lack of online gaming.

 

[jarrod]

It doesn't work that way... even though only roughly 10% of the userbase plays online, most online games have about a 50% online ratio. Meaning that of all the sales of CSX, PGR2, RSC2, SOCOM, SOCOMII, etc., 50% of the people that bought the game play online with it.

Online penetration is only about 4% of current consoles actually. It's about 6% when you take out GameCube.

Also, I've never seen that 50% figure before... I'd think it'd be highly dependant on the game really. Something like PSO likely gets way more than 50% while Madden is probably much less. 50% for BurnOut 3 doesn't seem too unlikely though.

same old jarrod... glad to see you never change buddy. Defending Nin to the end. I can't wait for the day when you finally admit that holding out on online play was one of Nintendo's dire mistakes.

The argument could be made for being a mistake in terms of perception but definitialy not from a financial viewpoint. The same could've been said about SNES CD.

Developers are avoiding the cube simply because of the lack of online gaming. If nothing else, wouldn't it be nice for developers to get experience with Nintendo online. Think of it as a free scratchpad. Then when revolution does come, developers will be adept at coding for it.

Name one other game that wasn't released on GameCube due to online play.

 

[jedimike]

Online penetration is only about 4% of current consoles actually. It's about 6% when you take out GameCube.

Also, I've never seen that 50% figure before... I'd think it'd be highly dependant on the game really. Something like PSO likely gets way more than 50% while Madden is probably much less. 50% for BurnOut 3 doesn't seem too unlikely though.

Yes, it is dependant on the game. Although I'm sure a game like MK: DD would certainly have a high percentage of users playing online. And I know for a fact that it would have sold more copies. At least one more anyway.

The argument could be made for being a mistake in terms of perception but definitialy not from a financial viewpoint. The same could've been said about SNES CD.

Unfortunately, perception drives a lot of the industry. Plus, there really isn't any guideline that says online gaming has to be expensive. Just because MS shelled out the dough for a top of the line infrastructure doesn't mean that it would cost Nintendo that much. Sony online was probably very inexpensive. Perception is killing Nintendo's console business... one look at the sales charts and you'll see that Nintendo is selling less and less, not more and more like Xbox.

Name one other game that wasn't released on GameCube due to online play.

I have no idea what goes on with publisher and developer relationships. Luckily Ward was vocal enough to give us a glimpse. Just by looking at the coming soon section, you can see that online gaming has penetrated the market. Nearly every game coming out for Xbox is Live enabled. It's impossible to know what decisions happen behind the scenes, but looking at the number of GC titles vs. the number of Xbox titles you can conclude that at least a portion of those didn't make it to the cube because of a lack of an online network.

Then you have games like SCT that excluded a vital multiplayer function of the game simply for that reason. Does that hurt Nintendo? Hell yes... that's where the perception factor comes into play. How much it hurts is highly debatable... but add up all these little miniscule "hurts" and it starts to become one big pain for Nintendo. One that could have been avoided simply by implementing online play in a few games. There is no doubt in my mind that Nintendo would have a solid grip on 2nd place worldwide if they would have been online.

 

[jarrod]

Yes, it is dependant on the game. Although I'm sure a game like MK: DD would certainly have a high percentage of users playing online. And I know for a fact that it would have sold more copies. At least one more anyway. .

I seriously doubt Mario Kart would've reached 50% online penetration. If it did GameCube online would outnumber Live over 2 to 1.

Unfortunately, perception drives a lot of the industry. Plus, there really isn't any guideline that says online gaming has to be expensive. Just because MS shelled out the dough for a top of the line infrastructure doesn't mean that it would cost Nintendo that much. Sony online was probably very inexpensive. Perception is killing Nintendo's console business... one look at the sales charts and you'll see that Nintendo is selling less and less, not more and more like Xbox. .

Yet even GameCube "selling less and less" while XBox sells "more and more" the platforms remain in a dead heat. For 3 years. Perception's a killer I tell ya.

I have no idea what goes on with publisher and developer relationships. Luckily Ward was vocal enough to give us a glimpse. Just by looking at the coming soon section, you can see that online gaming has penetrated the market. Nearly every game coming out for Xbox is Live enabled. It's impossible to know what decisions happen behind the scenes, but looking at the number of GC titles vs. the number of Xbox titles you can conclude that at least a portion of those didn't make it to the cube because of a lack of an online network.

So you can't name even one other game. Got it.

Then you have games like SCT that excluded a vital multiplayer function of the game simply for that reason. Does that hurt Nintendo? Hell yes... that's where the perception factor comes into play. How much it hurts is highly debatable... but add up all these little miniscule "hurts" and it starts to become one big pain for Nintendo. One that could have been avoided simply by implementing online play in a few games. There is no doubt in my mind that Nintendo would have a solid grip on 2nd place worldwide if they would have been online.

Eh... I just don't see it. Good old mike, I think you're really overestimating the impact of online console gaming. People did the same thing with Sega CD...

 

[Lord Error]

Guys, instead of clutching at stats, you should realize that sales numbers are not always what all developers go by. Publishers probably do, but developers have some say, especially when they don't belong to a publisher. When there's no challenge to be had somewhere, some devs don't want to go there. Criterion are people who obviously love technical challenge (you can tell how much pride is there in their talk about what they accomplished on PS2, and they indeed have every bragging right) They love to make stuff that is fun for them - and if they think their online mode is so damn fun and they don't have the possibility to do it on the Cube - why should they want to waste resources on development that they'd rather spent elsewhere?

 

[jedimike]

Yet even GameCube "selling less and less" while XBox sells "more and more" the platforms remain in a dead heat. For 3 years. Perception's a killer I tell ya.

If MS had half of Nintendo's catalog of franchises, Nintendo would be MS's little bitch. Vice versa... give Nintendo MS's console with online gaming, hard drive, and DVD player and Nintendo would be owning everything out there. MS had to carve themselves a market... it wasn't handed to them.

The damned thing about MS and Nintendo is they are have and have nots... Nintendo's got the franchises and MS has the hardware... Sony just happens to have both.

 

[DrLazy]

Name one other game that wasn't released on GameCube due to online play.

GodzillaAMM 2.

I definitly think Nintendo is losing mindshare among the hardcore by not having online gaming. In fact, I might convince all my old highschool friends to go Xbox 2 (they usually ask me for advice on gaming) so we can all play games anytime. That said, I still love Nintendo games, but I'd love Mario Tennis online even more.

 

[kaching]

I always find it incredibly unconvincing when people try to claim that something is inconsequential through extended, heated and recurring debates about it. Inconsequential issues tend NOT to spark debate or conversation, not the other way around.

 

[Dave Long]

You haven't been on the Internet very long have you?

 

[DDayton]

What I always find amusing about this arguement is that the developers give the completely wrong reason for not supporting online gaming in a GameCube game. It's not that there is "no online" (nice to see the education system at work), but that Nintendo isn't footing the bill for online gaming. There is really no reason why they couldn't offer an online component -- the catch is that they'd have to run their own servers, rather than relying upon someone else.

That is true, right? Do companies run their own servers for PS2 games, footing the bill because they -expect- a large number of players? If so, is the "no online" (cough) statement just a perceived notion, or is it based on the number of modem and broadband adaptors sold?

 

[The Faceless Master]

Eurogamer: Graphically it seems to be something of a benchmark...

Alex Ward: I said at E3, 'we're taking the piss with this, aren't we, on the PS2?' [Smiles]

Eurogamer: You really are taking the piss. It's staggering. How have you managed to do all this crazy stuff that you're doing?

taking a piss?
explain!

 

[kaching]

You haven't been on the Internet very long have you?

I just got here from the USENET, sir. I hear tell that that thar Gore fella invented this here place, so I had to come see it for m'self. Right kind of you to take notice of a poor soul. Perhaps you'd favor a country bumpkin like me with the favor of your wisdom?




Faceless, it's "Taking THE piss". Big difference. Its a British thing. http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/t.htm

 

[jedimike]

What I always find amusing about this arguement is that the developers give the completely wrong reason for not supporting online gaming in a GameCube game. It's not that there is "no online" (nice to see the education system at work), but that Nintendo isn't footing the bill for online gaming. There is really no reason why they couldn't offer an online component -- the catch is that they'd have to run their own servers, rather than relying upon someone else.

That is true, right? Do companies run their own servers for PS2 games, footing the bill because they -expect- a large number of players? If so, is the "no online" (cough) statement just a perceived notion, or is it based on the number of modem and broadband adaptors sold?

Depending on how Nintendo wants to implement online gaming, there really isn't much of a bill to foot. The difference between a LAN enabled game and a Online game is really very slim (See Warpipe). You just have to make your protocol routable and be a little more efficient with your bandwidth.

Developers won't support online gaming for the cube because they don't feel that the effort they put forth will yield any returns. One game can't carry a network.

 

[DyersEve]

I wonder if the EA , Live deal had not happend and it was not going online with the XBox would the XBox still have gotten the game or would it not have been made for the system like the GC.

 

[jarrod]

If MS had half of Nintendo's catalog of franchises, Nintendo would be MS's little bitch.

Well that Rare aquisition hasn't gotten them too far.

GodzillaAMM 2.

DAMM you!

One game can't carry a network.

How about 4 games?

 

[Red Dolphin]

I wonder if the EA , Live deal had not happend and it was not going online with the XBox would the XBox still have gotten the game or would it not have been made for the system like the GC.

I was wondering that too. Which is why I found it odd that in the interview Alex Ward said they had "two versions of the game for Xbox" depending on whether or not the EA/Live deal went on. So it sounds like they would have had an offline version for Xbox anyway...

 

[FortNinety]

Eurogamer: So presumably there is, as you stay, still more in the tank on the PS2...

Alex Ward: We just set out deliberately to make the PS2 version look like the best Xbox game you've ever seen.
....................

I was at an EA event in NYC yesterday and got a chance to sit down and play the game for a long while, and Jesus Christ was it incredible. And the funny thing is, the rep I spoke with said the same exact thing from above.

 

[ge-man]

I'll agree that the game is incredible. They have a PS2 demo running at my local Blockbuster. By coincidence the other day on their Xbox they have Burnout 2 running so I was able to do a pretty complete comparison. Burnout 3 destroys the older game. I'm very impressed.