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Aliens and UFOs

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Romulus

Member
This is huge putting into a modern context. Some of this footage I've never seen.

SETI, US, Belgium, and Norwegian scientists have been studying the Hessdalen phenomena for years.

Locals talked about tic-tacs, cigar-shaped, and light-based objects around their village before scientists decided to study them. These accounts are mostly from the 1980s-90s, far before Fravor and the US Nimitz encounter.



The conclusion from scientists after years of study

-Objects have special characteristics unique to known science
-Speeds up to 18,000mph have been recorded
-More than one type of phenomena, yet they are integrated. Some are light-based, others are physical objects
-Some objects depart from other objects and fly away
-The phenomena change speed in such a way that indicates no mass
-The phenomena seem to be able to take on energy from the ground while passing by
-Scientists claim the phenomena could revolutionize physics once better understood


 
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Romulus

Member
Seems more and more pilots and targeting officers are coming out to shoot down Mick West's bullshit. I liked his Chilean video to his credit because it was amazing work, but he went too far after that. Maybe it went to his head.

This guy has 17 years of using the targeting pod

 
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One of mankind's most annoying tendencies is to jump at the opportunity to purport anything that is mysterious in nature, and could possibly upset the status quo.

People who dress up in big foot costumes, fake lochness monster vids, and fake ufo sightings are the worst. They literally care nothing about finding answers, or furthering our knowledge.

I haven't seen all the videos out there, but I've seen quite a few. Based on the videos, I'd actually be more surprised if they ended up being some sort of advanced tech from a competing country such as China or Russia. At least compared to it being of alien origin.

I believe 99% of the unexplained and verified incidents are likely neither human advanced tech or aliens. But there does seem to be at least a few instances where nothing else really seems plausible. If they're not ours, there's not many other options left.

The most plausible explanation in my opinion would be that they could be drones. If we assume as the statistics suggest, and that there is other life out there somewhere, and even life vastly more advanced than us. Then they'd almost certainly have to be curious by nature. That's the only thing we know of that promotes increased knowledge.

So if there's life out there, that leads to... possibly intelligent life out there. That then leads to being life out there that's curious in nature, and thus willing to explore. The easiest, cheapest, and most thorough way to get an idea of what's out there, and where is to send a drone or probe. Exactly like we did with our own solar system, and just like we're currently doing on Mars.

How any aliens knew to send drones here specifically can be answered with any of several reasonable possibilities. There could've detected us by some method via their own SETI-like program. Even if we assume they didn't, they could've either launched millions of drones themselves to scour the galaxy, or even launched a relatively few drones of the Von Neumann variety.
 

Coolwhhip

Neophyte
So the pilot that saw the tic tac said he forgot to turn on his helmet camera when he was up close. Thats a shame.

What I find weird tho that no one has tried to shoot these things down.
 

MMaRsu

Member
Holy shit a newspaper actually posted a semi big piece of this in the newspaper ( which I dont read but my mom does ).

Sadly they talk about Mick West and how the objects in the videos arent really moving fast at all. And the conclusion is stated "we dont know why aliens come to our planet to pretend to be camera artifacts, airplanes and weather balloons without contacting us"

Jesus fucking christ. And this is a BIG paper. Trying to get in touch with them now
 

MMaRsu

Member
So the pilot that saw the tic tac said he forgot to turn on his helmet camera when he was up close. Thats a shame.

What I find weird tho that no one has tried to shoot these things down.

You are a fucking idiot. Do you go into the woods and start poking bears with sticks as well? Jesus christ. Thankfully we dont have morons like you in our fighter jets.
 

MMaRsu

Member
If you compare unknown aircrafts entering US airspace with bears in the woods, guess who the ”fucking idiot” is.
Why would you shoot at something clearly your superior in technology?

Only a dumb person would do this.
 
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jufonuk

not tag worthy
Why would you shoot at something clearly your superior in technology?

Only a dumb person would do this.
murica GIF
 

INC

Member
So what has to happen now so we can go "Yep, it's aliens." with 100% certainty.

DNA, video, pictures, materials (body etc)

Other than that, it'll stay as balloons or ball lightning, since nothing will ever be credible enough, unless its as cliche as land on the White House lawn......because it has to be Americans before its real right.......right?

Why we're all here waiting for the yamks to say its OK for the rest of the world

Lol

Shows how doomed the planet really is still haha
 
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INC

Member
The floodgates for bored people with drones and photo/video editing software are open now.

Been like that for the last 10 years, why these military videos are being used, since unless itsthe military editing it, the best you can use as evidence of ufo (not alien)
 

Coolwhhip

Neophyte
Been like that for the last 10 years, why these military videos are being used, since unless itsthe military editing it, the best you can use as evidence of ufo (not alien)

Yeah but never has it been in the news like this, so it will probably increase a lot.
 

Smoke6

Member
You do know time is not significant to us and more so anything outside of our existence right? So all these billions of light years crap and 15mins here would age those back on earth 50yrs is unproven in light of the technology these beings possess or whatnot if that’s the case. We may be older or younger than what our calendar leads us to believe as it’s all man made.

I for one think it’s other humanoid beings that are around us and have been! I look a photos of people from days past and still see people who look freaking identical to those same people from 100s of years ago and it gets me wondering like wtf? And no one really bats and eye at that at all
 
Seems more and more pilots and targeting officers are coming out to shoot down Mick West's bullshit. I liked his Chilean video to his credit because it was amazing work, but he went too far after that. Maybe it went to his head.

This guy has 17 years of using the targeting pod



Do you just take of any kind of dubious person who confirms your preconceptions at face value? For people priding themselves in the use of critical thinking, you sure as hell like to jump the gun on these kinds of videos.

xd0iLEl.png


Dude has 18 years of experience but is unable to recognize the frikkin' "Latitude" display? Instead he says this would indicate that "the laser is fine".
What an "expert" :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Also his collection of books is absolutely hilarious:

8qxAf2m.png


Pretty obvious the dude is a total quack and just wants to make a quick buck.
 

Romulus

Member
Do you just take of any kind of dubious person who confirms your preconceptions at face value? For people priding themselves in the use of critical thinking, you sure as hell like to jump the gun on these kinds of videos.

xd0iLEl.png


Dude has 18 years of experience but is unable to recognize the frikkin' "Latitude" display? Instead he says this would indicate that "the laser is fine".
What an "expert" :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Also his collection of books is absolutely hilarious:

8qxAf2m.png


Pretty obvious the dude is a total quack and just wants to make a quick buck.


Explain in detail why he is wrong about the laser. Be specific how you know this.

If he was wrong, does that mean he's wrong about everything else? I heard him mispeak a couple of times.

The books don't really prove anything. Not sure how that makes him a 'quack.' At worst, maybe he wanted to make a quick buck?

Anyway, sort of seems you're actually doing what you're excusing me of, taking someone else's word at face value, likely someone on a debunk forum probing for any error.

I never said the guys words were gospel either, reread my post. Hes a targeting officer, have a look. The guy is clearly a former targeting officer and his analysis immediately comes off more qualified than Mick's 'bird' debunk lol

Just seems like a meager attempt to smear the guy, he could be completely wrong about a couple of things and still bring some value to the conversation. Even Mick does that. But for some reason you don't want us extracting any value from it.

And I jump the gun on counterpoint videos? Where else have I done this? Link please.
 
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Romulus

Member
No, no it is not a parallax effect in the go fast video.
Shows a similar parallax effect video to proof it is not a parallax effect.

youtube-video-giflskx5.gif


How do we regular people know this from a half second gif that it's a "similar" effect? How similar? Which debunk forum is that from so I can check out the conversation.
 
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noonjam

Member
Do you just take of any kind of dubious person who confirms your preconceptions at face value? For people priding themselves in the use of critical thinking, you sure as hell like to jump the gun on these kinds of videos.

xd0iLEl.png


Dude has 18 years of experience but is unable to recognize the frikkin' "Latitude" display? Instead he says this would indicate that "the laser is fine".
What an "expert" :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Also his collection of books is absolutely hilarious:

8qxAf2m.png


Pretty obvious the dude is a total quack and just wants to make a quick buck.
Right in that exact section under the heading it would flash something like LTD/R if the laser was being used, he states as much afaik.
 

Romulus

Member
Is this an actual uk gov document?


"As result during the 2nd World War military and civilian intelligence investigation on the "Foo-Fighter" operation over the European and the Far East theatres, - and verifying the same Foo-Fighters - UFOs subsequent postwar operation now over United States "Off Limits" territories, - what is more, all over the continents, - United States and Union of Soviet Socialist Republics in the highest confidentiality with their allies have constrained preventive defense measures to divert the illegal alien intruder, identified as not being of earthly origin.

In JULY 1952, President Harry S Truman and his Chairman of the Join Chiefs of Staff, General Omar N. BRADLEY as the highest commanders of the United States armed forces acted openly:

"DEFENSE DEPARTMENT ORDERS TO SHOOT DOWN UFOS WHICH REFUSE TO LAND WHEN ORDERED TO DO SO"

The essential necessity of this ARMED DEFENSE against UFO forces were the series of mysterious disasters and accidents within the military forces, - the UFO units agressive reconnaisance from May to July 1952, over and around the capital, - Washington D.C. especially on July 26-27, when they appeared above the White House, the Capitol and the security establishments of the nations capital. It had been justified not in the last row the public increasing anxiety generated by the medias unbabated UFO reports from all over the world.



The handwritten part:

"any person who often having made an official report of an U.F.O then passes that same report to the News Media and general public can be fined up to 10k$ and jailed for up to 10 years."
 
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Coolwhhip

Neophyte
Ive started to listen to lots of podcasts about this now, really amazing stories if true. Or maybe Im turning into a crazy ufo nutcase.
 
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Romulus

Member
Ive started to listen to lots of podcasts about this now, really amazing stories if true. Or maybe Im turning into a crazy ufo nutcase.

I think its crazier to assume everything is explainable when we can't even begin to understand the universe. It's nearly a complete mystery yet we make all these conclusions based on almost nothing. We can't figure shit out on own planet lol
 

Razorback

Member
If advanced aliens exist relatively nearby and are capable of visiting us, there's a spectrum of what contact with them would look like.

On one end of that spectrum, contact with them would be completely obvious. One day they show up and it's clear to everyone what has happened. They are here, everyone can see them. Maybe they start a war or maybe they are friendly.

On the other end of the spectrum, these aliens are completely undetectable. They do not wish to be seen or make their presence known in any way. They are advanced enough to pull this off effortlessly.

And because this is a spectrum there's a whole range in between. In some scenarios there's substantial evidence for their presence, most people have seen them but not everyone. They don't care if they are seen, but their business here is limited so encounters with them are not as frequent. Maybe they landed on the white house lawn one day and had a chat with the president and left. The event was filmed but years later some people start thinking that maybe the whole thing was staged.

Further to the other side of this spectrum, there are scenarios where the aliens don't really want to be seen but are not capable of completely hiding. So some people do end up seeing them sometimes. Maybe they are really incompetent and most people see weird stuff all the time but can never have concrete evidence. Maybe they are just a little incompetent and only very few people catch glimpses of them occasionally with even less compelling evidence to show.

If we were to run the simulation again over and over, we would have a probability distribution telling us which of these scenarios occur more often than others. What is more common, obvious contact or hidden aliens or something in between?

Now given that spectrum, we can look at our world and what our situation looks like and see where it falls on the spectrum. It kinda looks like the one where they are very competent at hiding, but maybe not perfectly so.
But this assumes that whenever we see unidentified flying objects, they are of alien origin. Of course, we know this isn't the case. I think most people here would agree that most UFO claims out there have mundane terrestrial explanations. What we are interested in are those rare cases where we can't find an explanation.

In that case in a world where we were visited by perfectly hidden aliens, we would still have some number of UFO sightings. Even if they had nothing to do with the aliens.

So the number of UFO sightings is never zero regardless of the scenario. And most sightings we already have explanations. So if aliens truly are visiting us. They are the imperfectly hidden kind, and their appearances only account for a small percentage of the total UFO claims we have gathered.

There's one more world\scenario I would like to add to the mix. The scenario where we were never visited at all. We would still have UFO sightings. But would the number of truly hard-to-crack cases become zero?

Let's run the universe simulation again and add the no-aliens visiting scenario and remove those we already have evidence that arent the case (obvious contact).

Looking at our situation, do we have good evidence to claim that the most likely of the worlds, is the one where aliens are visiting us but are only responsible for a small percentage of UFO sightings?
Are those kinds of aliens more likely than no aliens at all, or aliens that have no trouble hiding from us?

I'm not asking if it's possible that that is the case. Only if it's more probable compared to the alternatives.
 

Romulus

Member
If advanced aliens exist relatively nearby and are capable of visiting us, there's a spectrum of what contact with them would look like.

On one end of that spectrum, contact with them would be completely obvious. One day they show up and it's clear to everyone what has happened. They are here, everyone can see them. Maybe they start a war or maybe they are friendly.

On the other end of the spectrum, these aliens are completely undetectable. They do not wish to be seen or make their presence known in any way. They are advanced enough to pull this off effortlessly.

And because this is a spectrum there's a whole range in between. In some scenarios there's substantial evidence for their presence, most people have seen them but not everyone. They don't care if they are seen, but their business here is limited so encounters with them are not as frequent. Maybe they landed on the white house lawn one day and had a chat with the president and left. The event was filmed but years later some people start thinking that maybe the whole thing was staged.

Further to the other side of this spectrum, there are scenarios where the aliens don't really want to be seen but are not capable of completely hiding. So some people do end up seeing them sometimes. Maybe they are really incompetent and most people see weird stuff all the time but can never have concrete evidence. Maybe they are just a little incompetent and only very few people catch glimpses of them occasionally with even less compelling evidence to show.

If we were to run the simulation again over and over, we would have a probability distribution telling us which of these scenarios occur more often than others. What is more common, obvious contact or hidden aliens or something in between?

Now given that spectrum, we can look at our world and what our situation looks like and see where it falls on the spectrum. It kinda looks like the one where they are very competent at hiding, but maybe not perfectly so.
But this assumes that whenever we see unidentified flying objects, they are of alien origin. Of course, we know this isn't the case. I think most people here would agree that most UFO claims out there have mundane terrestrial explanations. What we are interested in are those rare cases where we can't find an explanation.

In that case in a world where we were visited by perfectly hidden aliens, we would still have some number of UFO sightings. Even if they had nothing to do with the aliens.

So the number of UFO sightings is never zero regardless of the scenario. And most sightings we already have explanations. So if aliens truly are visiting us. They are the imperfectly hidden kind, and their appearances only account for a small percentage of the total UFO claims we have gathered.

There's one more world\scenario I would like to add to the mix. The scenario where we were never visited at all. We would still have UFO sightings. But would the number of truly hard-to-crack cases become zero?

Let's run the universe simulation again and add the no-aliens visiting scenario and remove those we already have evidence that arent the case (obvious contact).

Looking at our situation, do we have good evidence to claim that the most likely of the worlds, is the one where aliens are visiting us but are only responsible for a small percentage of UFO sightings?
Are those kinds of aliens more likely than no aliens at all, or aliens that have no trouble hiding from us?

I'm not asking if it's possible that that is the case. Only if it's more probable compared to the alternatives.


Assuming there was ever alien life visiting us, would it be impossible for more one species to visit? If one species or entity is here, seems to me that greatly increases the possibility for more. At that point, intelligent life in our immediate region isnt even unique, so the vastness of the universe could very likely reproduce similar results often. Speculation.
 
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Razorback

Member
Assuming there was ever alien life visiting us, would it be impossible for more one species to visit? If one species or entity is here, seems to me that greatly opens the possibility for more.
Sure, I agree. Do you think multiple aliens would have an effect on whether contact is more likely to be obvious or not?
I imagine it would increase the likelihood that contact is obvious. If the aliens are different and behave differently it would be a coincidence that they all seem to behave like imperfectly hidden aliens. Maybe they are cooperating but in that case, It makes little difference to us if they are all the same species or a conglomerate of species.
 

Romulus

Member
Sure, I agree. Do you think multiple aliens would have an effect on whether contact is more likely to be obvious or not?
I imagine it would increase the likelihood that contact is obvious. If the aliens are different and behave differently it would be a coincidence that they all seem to behave like imperfectly hidden aliens. Maybe they are cooperating but in that case, It makes little difference to us if they are all the same species or a conglomerate of species.


The thing is we wouldn't even know if they're perfectly hidden. So the only option left then is imperfectly hidden. We could have dozens of species coming here that are completely untraceable, and then maybe only see the less advanced species that are only a few thousand years ahead of us.

And I see the whole idea of "contact" as completely absurd. It's such a 1950s scifi thought process that some highly technical race would have any parallels to us at all if they're traveling light-years at will. It would be like us trying to contact a species of intelligent ape. There's nothing for us to gain outside of study or a curiosity. Even same could be said for indigenous humans. They're literally human but there's no real need to contact them other than to learn about them, but for the most part, we just leave them be. Aliens could have learned all they needed about us thousands of years ago.

I would think if dozens of species are coming here, they're all so far beyond us(way beyond us to indigenous humans) that the idea of contact is not even on their radar. Of course, humans, shepherds of the universe would assume that species 100x more advanced would need to contact them. The same planet where hundreds of different religions are all correct at the same time despite being different.

If aliens were ever coming here, they already know our threshold. They've seen us killing and warring our entire existence, and almost every huge discovery ever was made just to exert dominance and claim invisible borders. Monkeys with nukes still trying to crawl out of our cave(Earth).
 
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Coolwhhip

Neophyte
We'll the thing is we wouldn't even know if they're "perfectly hidden." We would just say traces of other species that might be imperfectly hidden. We could have dozens of species coming here that are completely untraceable, and then maybe only see the less advanced species that are only a few thousand years ahead of us.

And I see the whole idea of "contact" as completely absurd. It's such a 1950s scifi thought process that some highly technical race would have any parallels to us at all if they're traveling light-years at will. It would be like us trying to contact a species of intelligent ape. There's nothing for us to gain outside of study or a curiosity. Even same could be said for indigenous humans. They're literally human but there's no real need to contact them other than to learn about them, but for the most part, we just leave them be. Aliens could have learned all they needed about us thousands of years ago.

I would think if dozens of species are coming here, they're all so far beyond us(way beyond us to indigenous humans) that the idea of contact is not even on their radar. Of course, humans, shepherds of the universe would assume that species 100x more advanced would need to contact them. The same planet where hundreds of different religions are all correct at the same time despite being different.

If aliens were ever coming here, they already know our threshold. They've seen us killing and warring our entire existence, and almost every huge discovery ever was made just to exert dominance and claim invisible borders. Monkeys with nukes still trying to crawl out of our cave(Earth).

What would we do if we went to africa and discovered a new species of apes there that fight each other with wooden swords and shields and drive wooden cars. I guess we would look at them, but yeah, never really try to share our knowledge or anything.
 
If advanced aliens exist relatively nearby and are capable of visiting us, there's a spectrum of what contact with them would look like.

On one end of that spectrum, contact with them would be completely obvious. One day they show up and it's clear to everyone what has happened. They are here, everyone can see them. Maybe they start a war or maybe they are friendly.

On the other end of the spectrum, these aliens are completely undetectable. They do not wish to be seen or make their presence known in any way. They are advanced enough to pull this off effortlessly.

And because this is a spectrum there's a whole range in between. In some scenarios there's substantial evidence for their presence, most people have seen them but not everyone. They don't care if they are seen, but their business here is limited so encounters with them are not as frequent. Maybe they landed on the white house lawn one day and had a chat with the president and left. The event was filmed but years later some people start thinking that maybe the whole thing was staged.

Further to the other side of this spectrum, there are scenarios where the aliens don't really want to be seen but are not capable of completely hiding. So some people do end up seeing them sometimes. Maybe they are really incompetent and most people see weird stuff all the time but can never have concrete evidence. Maybe they are just a little incompetent and only very few people catch glimpses of them occasionally with even less compelling evidence to show.

If we were to run the simulation again over and over, we would have a probability distribution telling us which of these scenarios occur more often than others. What is more common, obvious contact or hidden aliens or something in between?

Now given that spectrum, we can look at our world and what our situation looks like and see where it falls on the spectrum. It kinda looks like the one where they are very competent at hiding, but maybe not perfectly so.
But this assumes that whenever we see unidentified flying objects, they are of alien origin. Of course, we know this isn't the case. I think most people here would agree that most UFO claims out there have mundane terrestrial explanations. What we are interested in are those rare cases where we can't find an explanation.

In that case in a world where we were visited by perfectly hidden aliens, we would still have some number of UFO sightings. Even if they had nothing to do with the aliens.

So the number of UFO sightings is never zero regardless of the scenario. And most sightings we already have explanations. So if aliens truly are visiting us. They are the imperfectly hidden kind, and their appearances only account for a small percentage of the total UFO claims we have gathered.

There's one more world\scenario I would like to add to the mix. The scenario where we were never visited at all. We would still have UFO sightings. But would the number of truly hard-to-crack cases become zero?

Let's run the universe simulation again and add the no-aliens visiting scenario and remove those we already have evidence that arent the case (obvious contact).

Looking at our situation, do we have good evidence to claim that the most likely of the worlds, is the one where aliens are visiting us but are only responsible for a small percentage of UFO sightings?
Are those kinds of aliens more likely than no aliens at all, or aliens that have no trouble hiding from us?

I'm not asking if it's possible that that is the case. Only if it's more probable compared to the alternatives.

To add beyond the spectrum - do the "aliens" want to hide, or are they putting on a show for a specific reason? Are they even really showing themselves?

I see the whole idea of "contact" as completely absurd. It's such a 1950s scifi thought process that some highly technical race would have any parallels to us at all if they're traveling light-years at will. It would be like us trying to contact a species of intelligent ape. There's nothing for us to gain outside of study or a curiosity. Even same could be said for indigenous humans. They're literally human but there's no real need to contact them other than to learn about them, but for the most part, we just leave them be. Aliens could have learned all they needed about us thousands of years ago.

I would think if dozens of species are coming here, they're all so far beyond us(way beyond us to indigenous humans) that the idea of contact is not even on their radar. Of course, humans, shepherds of the universe would assume that species 100x more advanced would need to contact them. The same planet where hundreds of different religions are all correct at the same time despite being different.

If aliens were ever coming here, they already know our threshold. They've seen us killing and warring our entire existence, and almost every huge discovery ever was made just to exert dominance and claim invisible borders. Monkeys with nukes still trying to crawl out of our cave(Earth).

Aliens would need a vested interest in us to make contact imo. They don't need our resources, they don't need us, so it would have to be some intangible motivation. Maybe they sent out seed ships to spread similar genetics across the galaxy and they enjoy seeing what popped up? Maybe there is a ship hidden inside the moon that whacked Earth to create the moon and generate the tidal forces necessary for their type of life, and it is broadcasting a subspace beacon saying "Here is Garden #47519546"?

That just goes back into why I don't like the ETH - it just feels too contrived if they didn't find us randomly, and them finding us randomly seems way too unlikely to be true.
 

Romulus

Member
What would we do if we went to africa and discovered a new species of apes there that fight each other with wooden swords and shields and drive wooden cars. I guess we would look at them, but yeah, never really try to share our knowledge or anything.

Yeah, there's absolutely no reason. Just sit back and watch them. There was a video of an African tribe witnessing a plane for the first time. It was an old propreller plane that looked like it was falling apart. Guess what? The Tribe freaked the fuck out, they were literally crying in fear, shitting and pissing themselves. That happened.

Those are humans, exact same DNA. Imagine us seeing something that was superior to us genetically and thousands of years ahead. It would buckle society if they did a show of force, even without attacking us. And more than likely aliens know that about us, we're super frail creatures mentally when it comes to superiority. We suppress, lie, and cheat against any form of potential superiority in order to maintain our own. Pretty much every nation in the world thinks they're the best, same with different human races within the poorer demographic especially.

If they're coming here, what are the chances that only the last 80 years are when this started? More than likely they've already had limited contact with us in the past, even ancient times, and we deemed them as gods or freaked the fuck out as the African tribe did. Not a worldwide contact, but they might have tried to closer evaluate our potential somehow and I have a feeling we wouldn't have faired well at all.
 
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Coolwhhip

Neophyte
Yeah, there's absolutely no reason. Just sit back and watch them. There was a video of an African tribe witnessing a plane for the first time. It was an old propreller plane that looked like it was falling apart. Guess what? The Tribe freaked the fuck out, they were literally crying in fear, shitting and pissing themselves in their own words.

Those are humans, exact same DNA. Imagine us seeing something that was superior to us genetically and thousands of years ahead. It would buckle society if they did a show of force, even without attacking us. And more than likely aliens know that about us, we're super frail creatures mentally when it comes to superiority. We suppress, lie, and cheat against any form of potential superiority in order to maintain our own. Pretty much every nation in the world thinks they're the best, same with different human races within the poorer demographic especially.

If they're coming here, what are the chances that only the last 80 years are when this started? More than likely they've already had limited contact with us in the past, even ancient times, and we deemed them as gods or freaked the fuck out as the African tribe did. Not a worldwide contact, but they might have tried to closer evaluate our potential somehow and I have a feeling we wouldn't have faired well at all.

To me it sounds like they're even just messing with us now. The whole tic tac at Nimitz thing kinda sounds like they're just showing off and almost taunting at this point.
 

Romulus

Member
To me it sounds like they're even just messing with us now. The whole tic tac at Nimitz thing kinda sounds like they're just showing off and almost taunting at this point.

Could be. But in that case, it seemed like they were minding their business and here we come sending warplanes right at them.

That's assuming that it's otherworldly.
 

Airola

Member
If aliens were ever coming here, they already know our threshold. They've seen us killing and warring our entire existence, and almost every huge discovery ever was made just to exert dominance and claim invisible borders. Monkeys with nukes still trying to crawl out of our cave(Earth).

What if those wars and killing is actually what they are into and are here to watch? It's possible that they are warhawks, even worse than us, but rather than intefere, they are here to just watch. Not trying to stop anything, not trying to start anything, not trying to teach anything, not trying to study anything. Just watching wars and violence.

It could also be possible that just as we humans tend to look at the "lower" animals and try to learn about ourselves, aliens could also be watching us to learn about themselves.
I mean, it's quite usual that especially scientists point out to animals and correlate them to us, trying to explain our behavior by looking at different species of animals and their behavior.

Like, just as a human scientist would look at apes or dogs or birds and the way they are doing things by their purely animalistic instincts and then trying to figure out our behavior through that animalistic point of view, maybe aliens would also be here looking at us and trying to figure out why they behave the way they do and they try to do it by looking at "lower" animal species.
 

Romulus

Member
What if those wars and killing is actually what they are into and are here to watch? It's possible that they are warhawks, even worse than us, but rather than intefere, they are here to just watch. Not trying to stop anything, not trying to start anything, not trying to teach anything, not trying to study anything. Just watching wars and violence.

It could also be possible that just as we humans tend to look at the "lower" animals and try to learn about ourselves, aliens could also be watching us to learn about themselves.
I mean, it's quite usual that especially scientists point out to animals and correlate them to us, trying to explain our behavior by looking at different species of animals and their behavior.

Like, just as a human scientist would look at apes or dogs or birds and the way they are doing things by their purely animalistic instincts and then trying to figure out our behavior through that animalistic point of view, maybe aliens would also be here looking at us and trying to figure out why they behave the way they do and they try to do it by looking at "lower" animal species.


Kinda creepy. I know the Romans said they had giant shield-looking shiny objects following them from battle to battle.
 
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ManaByte

Member
Assuming there was ever alien life visiting us, would it be impossible for more one species to visit? If one species or entity is here, seems to me that greatly increases the possibility for more. At that point, intelligent life in our immediate region isnt even unique, so the vastness of the universe could very likely reproduce similar results often. Speculation.

What if there are dozens?
 

Razorback

Member
The thing is we wouldn't even know if they're perfectly hidden. So the only option left then is imperfectly hidden. We could have dozens of species coming here that are completely untraceable, and then maybe only see the less advanced species that are only a few thousand years ahead of us.

And I see the whole idea of "contact" as completely absurd. It's such a 1950s scifi thought process that some highly technical race would have any parallels to us at all if they're traveling light-years at will. It would be like us trying to contact a species of intelligent ape. There's nothing for us to gain outside of study or a curiosity. Even same could be said for indigenous humans. They're literally human but there's no real need to contact them other than to learn about them, but for the most part, we just leave them be. Aliens could have learned all they needed about us thousands of years ago.

I would think if dozens of species are coming here, they're all so far beyond us(way beyond us to indigenous humans) that the idea of contact is not even on their radar. Of course, humans, shepherds of the universe would assume that species 100x more advanced would need to contact them. The same planet where hundreds of different religions are all correct at the same time despite being different.

If aliens were ever coming here, they already know our threshold. They've seen us killing and warring our entire existence, and almost every huge discovery ever was made just to exert dominance and claim invisible borders. Monkeys with nukes still trying to crawl out of our cave(Earth).

We could never know if they're perfectly hidden, but that doesn't remove the option from the table. Neither does it remove the third option, no aliens visiting at all. UFO sightings are always present, regardless of aliens visiting or not.

I don't know why you want to add multiple species to this picture. Occams razor states that "entities should not be multiplied without necessity".
If there are multiple species visiting, some more advanced than others, it's really unlucky that the least advanced of the species are only on the threshold of being detected. We never get lucky and get a clear picture or physical evidence.

As for "contact" being absurd. Can you name an example of a group, tribe, or nation that has never been contacted by others? Can you name an animal species we haven't made contact with and studied?
I know reasoning from a sample of one isn't ideal, but it sure is better than reasoning from a sample of zero. The only examples we have of life on earth and human civilizations contact each other all the time. Where are you getting this confidence that it is expected that aliens will have no interest in making contact? Further, if that is true, why would they bother coming here at all?

So they don't care, but they do visit. They visit, but they can't hide perfectly. But not so badly hidden that it becomes obvious they are here. They are just on the edge of being indistinguishable from not visiting at all, or being perfectly hidden.

Seems like we are multiplying a whole lot of entities here, aren't we?

Finally. Why do you assume warlike behavior is somehow unique to us humans? Competing for resources is what evolution is all about. Species that are bad at it go extinct pretty fast. It is expected that similarly advanced species would follow a similar path and would have a violent past. They wouldn't find our flaws at all surprising. And it would be completely unreasonable for them to look down on us for having those instincts. Just like it would be unreasonable for us to judge the behavior of animals.
 

Romulus

Member
We could never know if they're perfectly hidden, but that doesn't remove the option from the table. Neither does it remove the third option, no aliens visiting at all. UFO sightings are always present, regardless of aliens visiting or not.

I don't know why you want to add multiple species to this picture. Occams razor states that "entities should not be multiplied without necessity".
If there are multiple species visiting, some more advanced than others, it's really unlucky that the least advanced of the species are only on the threshold of being detected. We never get lucky and get a clear picture or physical evidence.

As for "contact" being absurd. Can you name an example of a group, tribe, or nation that has never been contacted by others? Can you name an animal species we haven't made contact with and studied?
I know reasoning from a sample of one isn't ideal, but it sure is better than reasoning from a sample of zero. The only examples we have of life on earth and human civilizations contact each other all the time. Where are you getting this confidence that it is expected that aliens will have no interest in making contact? Further, if that is true, why would they bother coming here at all?

So they don't care, but they do visit. They visit, but they can't hide perfectly. But not so badly hidden that it becomes obvious they are here. They are just on the edge of being indistinguishable from not visiting at all, or being perfectly hidden.

Seems like we are multiplying a whole lot of entities here, aren't we?

Finally. Why do you assume warlike behavior is somehow unique to us humans? Competing for resources is what evolution is all about. Species that are bad at it go extinct pretty fast. It is expected that similarly advanced species would follow a similar path and would have a violent past. They wouldn't find our flaws at all surprising. And it would be completely unreasonable for them to look down on us for having those instincts. Just like it would be unreasonable for us to judge the behavior of animals.


I thought we were already discussing the possibility of multiple species? i didn't know that was off the table considering everything is speculation anyway. I don't know why you're saying we "never get lucky" to get a clear picture. There was one posted weeks ago in this very thread by a Navy pilot. Not 4k clear, but definitely easy to see its shape. And why would we have physical evidence(assuming we don't) of an advanced species? Would there be crashes? Maybe not.

We don't make "contact" with other species. We observe them from a distance in most cases. We study insects, mice, etc, and the contact is usually us there from a distance, not a dialogue or sharing of information. In many cases, animals don't even know we're there. There is a tribe in Papa New Guinea that just saw the white man for the first time about 50 years ago and others that the modern world usually keeps away from. "Never" being contacted by aliens isn't a direct equivalence because we don't know the history of mankind, even recorded history pales in comparison to the full history of mankind, so limiting it to that tiny sliver I don't know about. Contact usually happens between humans, yes, but again we're all human so you would imagine that would be certain. For some cases, indigenous tribes stay indegious and have very little knowledge of the outside world.

What do you mean why even come to Earth at all? Why even go to the moon and continue to study it even after we know it doesn't have life. It's just a barren lifeless rock. Even the most remote deserts are studied. Shouldn't we devote all our resources to Mars etc? Even though it seems pretty void too. Why not explore more of the ocean even though almost none of it has been explored?

Who said for certain aliens don't care? Maybe they actually do care and they're preserving our way of life? Who says they can't hide perfectly, but their presence is so obscure that we'll never know what it is anyway. Assume my next statement is factual aliens for a moment: Dots in the sky. Balls of energy zipping around. I mean even if you have proof of those things moving around, what can you do besides talk about it on forums? Nothing. They could literally be visiting here in 100 years and people still talking about the same stuff with no conclusion.

It doesn't have to be "extra entities." They could be the same species from the same planet but a different group with their own rules, the same way humans from China and the US might not explore Mars with the exact same rules and technology. Doesn't have to be "unlucky" just unknown variations. Or some of them could be explained later as natural.

I never assumed warlike behavior is unique to humans. I don't have to go any further with that point.
 
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Razorback

Member
I thought we were already discussing the possibility of multiple species? i didn't know that was off the table considering everything is speculation anyway. I don't know why you're saying we "never get lucky" to get a clear picture. There was one posted weeks ago in this very thread by a Navy pilot. Not 4k clear, but definitely easy to see its shape. And why would we have physical evidence(assuming we don't) of an advanced species? Would there be crashes? Maybe not.

We don't make "contact" with other species. We observe them from a distance in most cases. We study insects, mice, etc, and the contact is usually us there from a distance, not a dialogue or sharing of information. In many cases, animals don't even know we're there. There is a tribe in Papa New Guinea that just saw the white man for the first time about 50 years ago and others that the modern world usually keeps away from. "Never" being contacted by aliens isn't a direct equivalence because we don't know the history of mankind, even recorded history pales in comparison to the full history of mankind, so limiting it to that tiny sliver I don't know about. Contact usually happens between humans, yes, but again we're all human so you would imagine that would be certain. For some cases, indigenous tribes stay indegious and have very little knowledge of the outside world.

What do you mean why even come to Earth at all? Why even go to the moon and continue to study it even after we know it doesn't have life. It's just a barren lifeless rock. Even the most remote deserts are studied. Shouldn't we devote all our resources to Mars etc? Even though it seems pretty void too. Why not explore more of the ocean even though almost none of it has been explored?

Who said for certain aliens don't care? Maybe they actually do care and they're preserving our way of life? Who says they can't hide perfectly, but their presence is so obscure that we'll never know what it is anyway. Assume my next statement is factual aliens for a moment: Dots in the sky. Balls of energy zipping around. I mean even if you have proof of those things moving around, what can you do besides talk about it on forums? Nothing. They could literally be visiting here in 100 years and people still talking about the same stuff with no conclusion.

It doesn't have to be "extra entities." They could be the same species from the same planet but a different group with their own rules, the same way humans from China and the US might not explore Mars with the exact same rules and technology. Doesn't have to be "unlucky" just unknown variations. Or some of them could be explained later as natural.

I never assumed warlike behavior is unique to humans. I don't have to go any further with that point.

By clear picture, I mean something that does not leave room for interpretation. Shown to a large group of people, 90% would agree about the shape, color, texture, and features of the object. Someone on this page posted a bunch of videos of people looking at a Goodyear blimp. Notice that all of the videos are from a certain distance that makes the object far away enough to be noticeable, but not close enough to be instantly identifiable. Why are there no videos from a much closer location? The object was over an urban area. Surely someone closer must have filmed it. Because no one that was close enough would bother to post the thing on the internet claiming it was a UFO, because they are close enough to know for a fact that it's just a blimp.

There's a selection process going on here that makes it so that every UFO footage will always follow this pattern. UFOs will always be captured at the limit of human pattern recognition. Any closer and we would know what it was.
Advanced fighter planes with infrared and zoom lenses capable of tracking objects miles away? It Will still always be far enough away that leaves room for interpretation. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a story, you wouldn't hear about it.

On the "contact" thing I'll just say that I disagree with your assessment that we study things from afar.

I didn't make the claim that Aliens have no reason to come to Earth. I said in the context of your assessment that they have no reason to want to contact us. I now understand that what you mean by "contact" is to establish a relationship. By "contact", I only meant to make their presence known.

My whole point was that whether aliens know how to hide or not, we will always have a non-zero number of UFO sightings. People will make mistakes. Rare phenomena captured with imperfect data is a statistical certainty.

Given this, what is more likely:

1-Of all the possible aliens out there. The ones visiting us do not make their presence obvious. The sightings of them we do have, are on that threshold of distance I previously mentioned where there is room for speculation.

2-We are being visited by aliens, but they are so competent at hiding that we have never once detected even a hint of their presense. All UFO sightings are mistakes on our part.

3- There are no aliens visiting us at all, and there never have been.
 

Romulus

Member
Supposedly these things were unknowns in Afghanistan hit with a sidewinder and caused no damage to them.








Opposite side of the world, another video





Flares? But why are you dumping so many flares and what the hell is that thing dumping the flares, and why is doesn't it take damage?
 
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