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[INC]

Got the smoking gun guys




...

 

[Coolwhhip]

I wanted to listen to the Joe Rogan Bob Lazar podcast again but after 10 minutes I stopped. It's so damn obvious that dude is making shit up. "The guy before me died!!!" and "I saw 9 spacecrafts when consuela accidently left all the hangar doors open."

 

[INC]

I wanted to listen to the Joe Rogan Bob Lazar podcast again but after 10 minutes I stopped. It's so damn obvious that dude is making shit up. "The guy before me died!!!" and "I saw 9 spacecrafts when consuela accidently left all the hangar doors open."

Thing is he got a lot right, before it was even known

My guess he did work at area 51, but on the stealth program, that was early 80s in development.

That would also give most of the information he was relaying some truth to it, like the hand scanner everyone said was BS, then turned out to be true, well guess what program they used that for.....yep the stealth fighter program.

 

[Coolwhhip]

Thing is he got a lot right, before it was even known

My guess he did work at area 51, but on the stealth program, that was early 80s in development.

That would also give most of the information he was relaying some truth to it, like the hand scanner everyone said was BS, then turned out to be true, well guess what program they used that for.....yep the stealth fighter program.

What did he get right before it was known? And wasn't that hand scanner in a movie before his story?

 

[INC]

What did he get right before it was known? And wasn't that hand scanner in a movie before his story?

Well area 51 for 1, that wasn't known about, at least not by name......(I'm probably wrong about that), S4 definitely wasn't, if that even exists, apparently it does

No idea about hand scanner, I'm just going off what was shown, I dont follow much of lazaar story, since without any physical proof its just a story, a fun one, but thats about it, if you say its a movie prop then sure fine

Element 115 isn't really proof, if he has a working knowledge of elements, which he obviously does, an educated guess could of come up with that, and again,,he reckons he has it, and thats why he's still hounded by the FBI etc etc

cant deny he's a good storyteller, no fluff, and comes across as legit.

Some of me wants to believe the story, but until any real proof, its nothing more than folklore

 

[Westcliff]

After watching these two videos i stopped believing in Bob Lazars stories:








Additional info (from reddit):


If you believe Bob, you believe...


...A self confessed pimp



...Someone who fled Los Alamos after owing 100's of thousands of dollars to people. Resulting in Bob finally declaring bankruptcy which was finalised 1 year before his S4 story. Here is John Hornes account of the money Bob owed him and how he had to chase Bob for years. John was one of the lucky ones that got his money back. -> https://www.otherhand.org/home-page...re/the-bob-lazar-corner/los-alamos-interview/


Here is a list of Bob's creditors from the Bankruptcy case - including his parents



...A guy that said he was a physicist at LANL, however, people that knew Bob like John Horne, said he was a electronics technician at LANL. Bob also did an electronics course at Pierce College for which Stanton Friedman found records of. Bob's 1980 marriage cert lists him as being a electronic tech. In 1981 Bob was working at Fairchild/Xincom as an electronics Tech. Bob admitted that in a Wired article. In 1982 he shows up in LANL and told a reporter who wrote about his jetcar that he was a physicist. In 1989 he used the LANL phone dir to prove he worked there and in combination with the 1982 article used it all as proof he was a physicist there. Problem is, the LANL phone dir lists him working for a company called Kirk Mayer. Kirk Mayer only hired tech related roles like electronics technicians. They were formerly called Role-Tec. Bob on Billy Goodman back in 1989 said he started at LANL as a technician. He also told Corbell that in 1982 while working at LANL, that he went out and installed a Sat dish there. This is the year he told the jetcar article journo that he was a physicist there.


Wired article:
https://www.wired.com/1994/12/desert-blast/


Kirk-Mayer Ad listing roles they hired:



Bob saying he installed a Sat dish at LANL in ~ 1982



1980 Marriage cert showing Bob and Carol were Electroinc techs



Interview with a LANL tech who knew Bob as a tech at LANL



The wired article is about the Gun and firework show Bob ran in the desert called Desert Blast from 87 to 99. Here is a video of Desert Blast 12, Bob the organiser can be seen at :50 in.



Bob learnt to make fireworks from an Italian family he met that made them through generations. His main business at United Nuclear is selling fireworks material which he has been busted on several times.
https://www.justice.gov/civil/cpb/case/us-v-united-nuclear-scientific-supplies-et-al-0


...A guy who then ran a second illegal brothel just months after claiming to be at S4. He claimed he only installed a computer system there despite pleading guilty. But the police Affidavit shows they found the brothel Apt lease agreement with Bob's name on it, Also the hookers said Bob had interviewed them. He also installed surveilance cams in the trick rooms.


See here https://imgur.com/a/kolQrAj


Even George Knapp admitted Bob was a rebel who was into guns and hookers
https://youtu.be/eB7RSCYtyXI?t=535


...A guy who tells a crowd at Rachel in 1993 that he had professors Duxler and Hohsfield at MIT and Caltech. Neither were found to have taught at MIT and Caltech. Friedman found them to be Bob's Highschool and Pierce College teachers for which there is record of Bob attending. MIT and Caltech also told Friedman that Bob had not attended either school.


Bob saying he had Duxler and Hohsfield at MIt and Caltech at 45:30
https://youtu.be/SpaTKvEkdxU?t=2730


The start shows Bob's new corvette with MJ-12 plates, because Bob was super low key.


Here is Hohsfield in Bob's HS yearbook of the time - Bottom left https://i.imgur.com/lFY2TrV.jpg


Here is the Rachel conference organiser who wrote about how Bob laughed at other UFO talkers and had bailed on going to a paid interview in Japan and kept the money http://noriohayakawa2020.blogspot.com/2008/10/strange-behavior-of-bob-lazar-alleged.html


Stanton Friedman on Bob -> https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2v4rn4


Not even George Knapp believed Bob went to MIT or Caltech
https://youtu.be/K1viG6PRjiw?t=2697


Linda Moulton Howe recounts how Bob told her he never went to MIT or Caltech
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlUzSox27Rk


Here is Bob saying he went to Pierce college
https://youtu.be/SpaTKvEkdxU?t=1877


...A guy who copied the Demon core story including the reactor design. The Demon Core story is a true story about a scientist who died opening a reactor. Bob had claimed that he replaced a scientist at S4 who died trying to open the alien reactor. Demon Core -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_core#/media/File:Partially-reflected-plutonium-sphere.jpeg


Bobs Alien Reactor Model - > https://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/Bob_Lazar_S4_Disc_Images/S4_Disc_Reactor_5.gif


...Who copied the E115 story from the Scientific American article that came out just 2 weeks prior.


Copied Billy Meiers saucer


Reticuli alien origin from Betty and Barny.


And finally the story of the gov having acquired a number of UFO's , one of which they could fly - from John Lear who told that story to Knapp 2 years before Bob came out with his S4 story. See Lear telling Knapp the story in 1987 for yourself
https://youtu.be/LGQkkHuwm6w?t=268


Both Bob and Gene Huff met Lear before his S4 story and they obtained Lear's UFO files including the Billy Meiers tapes. Here's a cut clip of Lear saying he showed Lazar the Meiers tape and Bob saying the UFO was like Meiers saucer
https://twitter.com/ddeanjohnson/status/1361674742030336003


Meiers was later busted completely as a fraud when pics he said were of alien women, turned out to be screen grabs from a Dean Martin TV special. When Bob gave his first brief interview in silhouette under the alias "Dennis" , that was filmed in a news van parked in John Lears driveway.


See for yourself
https://youtu.be/HyUlaZR0PoY?t=1549


...A guy that forged a W2. The W2 Bob showed had a Employer that did not exist. It noted the Department of Naval Intelligence rather than the Office of Naval Intelligence. The W2 was also typed and not printed - a huge red flag. It also had a bogus MAJ OMB number typed in when a legitimate OMB # was already there and printed. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJ6WCGEWoAAycu6.png


...A guy who took Biglelow night UFO spotting in 1990 at the same spot he took others previously, Bigelow heard a rustle and spotted Lazar letting loose a helium filled mylar balloon towards Papoose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUYhCmfE1a0


Bigelow also setup a company for Lazar to do research. Bigelow fired Lazar when he found Lazar was just using the lab to store furniture. Bigelow also said Lazar made claims about a material that didn't check out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOGHrxysBKI


According to Bob's court docs, Bigelow had paid him $2500/month
https://i.imgur.com/HepKKzm.jpg


Company Bigelow started with Lazar
https://i.imgur.com/P5cYqhH.jpg


Of course unbelievably, Bigelow still believed Lazar after all that

Interestingly, Bob had been employed to work for Bigelow's lab while at the same time he was running a brothel for which he was arrested for. The dates he was running the brothel according to the pandering court docs, and when he was meant to be at Bigelow's lab, line up. See point 5 above. No wonder he had no time for the lab.

Also noteworthy is that George Knapp never mentioned during that interview that he worked for Bigelow for several years in the late 90's to early 2000's for NIDS.

BTW, Janet flights came into A51 over Papoose twice a night - their landing lights shone at the Rachel area, A51 also conducted night tests of their secret aircraft nightly. They even let flares loose under balloons for reasons unknown.

Glenn Campbell wrote a 115 page A51 viewers guide about all this etc -> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006QZTYK/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Hear Lazar say some of this himself
https://youtu.be/SpaTKvEkdxU?t=3474

 

[INC]

Even stanton friedman said he was full of shit, and he was on-board with MJ12, roswell being real etc

So how did he managed to record 3 test flights? What was he filming? How did he know at that moment in time they would be there at the exact time?

Did he have these super secret drones too In the 80s, to fly around and Impress his friends? There as footage (from an 80s vhs camera), was that just BS as well?

Again to me its just a story, but that part doesn't are sense, u less all his friends are BS as well (likely) but he recorded the test flights, what did he film? What did they all see, on 3 separate occasions?

Westcliff great post, ill look at it later

 

[Coolwhhip]

After watching these two videos i stopped believing in Bob Lazars stories:








Additional info (from reddit):


If you believe Bob, you believe...


...A self confessed pimp



...Someone who fled Los Alamos after owing 100's of thousands of dollars to people. Resulting in Bob finally declaring bankruptcy which was finalised 1 year before his S4 story. Here is John Hornes account of the money Bob owed him and how he had to chase Bob for years. John was one of the lucky ones that got his money back. -> https://www.otherhand.org/home-page...re/the-bob-lazar-corner/los-alamos-interview/


Here is a list of Bob's creditors from the Bankruptcy case - including his parents



...A guy that said he was a physicist at LANL, however, people that knew Bob like John Horne, said he was a electronics technician at LANL. Bob also did an electronics course at Pierce College for which Stanton Friedman found records of. Bob's 1980 marriage cert lists him as being a electronic tech. In 1981 Bob was working at Fairchild/Xincom as an electronics Tech. Bob admitted that in a Wired article. In 1982 he shows up in LANL and told a reporter who wrote about his jetcar that he was a physicist. In 1989 he used the LANL phone dir to prove he worked there and in combination with the 1982 article used it all as proof he was a physicist there. Problem is, the LANL phone dir lists him working for a company called Kirk Mayer. Kirk Mayer only hired tech related roles like electronics technicians. They were formerly called Role-Tec. Bob on Billy Goodman back in 1989 said he started at LANL as a technician. He also told Corbell that in 1982 while working at LANL, that he went out and installed a Sat dish there. This is the year he told the jetcar article journo that he was a physicist there.


Wired article:
https://www.wired.com/1994/12/desert-blast/


Kirk-Mayer Ad listing roles they hired:



Bob saying he installed a Sat dish at LANL in ~ 1982



1980 Marriage cert showing Bob and Carol were Electroinc techs



Interview with a LANL tech who knew Bob as a tech at LANL



The wired article is about the Gun and firework show Bob ran in the desert called Desert Blast from 87 to 99. Here is a video of Desert Blast 12, Bob the organiser can be seen at :50 in.



Bob learnt to make fireworks from an Italian family he met that made them through generations. His main business at United Nuclear is selling fireworks material which he has been busted on several times.
https://www.justice.gov/civil/cpb/case/us-v-united-nuclear-scientific-supplies-et-al-0


...A guy who then ran a second illegal brothel just months after claiming to be at S4. He claimed he only installed a computer system there despite pleading guilty. But the police Affidavit shows they found the brothel Apt lease agreement with Bob's name on it, Also the hookers said Bob had interviewed them. He also installed surveilance cams in the trick rooms.


See here https://imgur.com/a/kolQrAj


Even George Knapp admitted Bob was a rebel who was into guns and hookers
https://youtu.be/eB7RSCYtyXI?t=535


...A guy who tells a crowd at Rachel in 1993 that he had professors Duxler and Hohsfield at MIT and Caltech. Neither were found to have taught at MIT and Caltech. Friedman found them to be Bob's Highschool and Pierce College teachers for which there is record of Bob attending. MIT and Caltech also told Friedman that Bob had not attended either school.


Bob saying he had Duxler and Hohsfield at MIt and Caltech at 45:30
https://youtu.be/SpaTKvEkdxU?t=2730


The start shows Bob's new corvette with MJ-12 plates, because Bob was super low key.


Here is Hohsfield in Bob's HS yearbook of the time - Bottom left https://i.imgur.com/lFY2TrV.jpg


Here is the Rachel conference organiser who wrote about how Bob laughed at other UFO talkers and had bailed on going to a paid interview in Japan and kept the money http://noriohayakawa2020.blogspot.com/2008/10/strange-behavior-of-bob-lazar-alleged.html


Stanton Friedman on Bob -> https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2v4rn4


Not even George Knapp believed Bob went to MIT or Caltech
https://youtu.be/K1viG6PRjiw?t=2697


Linda Moulton Howe recounts how Bob told her he never went to MIT or Caltech
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlUzSox27Rk


Here is Bob saying he went to Pierce college
https://youtu.be/SpaTKvEkdxU?t=1877


...A guy who copied the Demon core story including the reactor design. The Demon Core story is a true story about a scientist who died opening a reactor. Bob had claimed that he replaced a scientist at S4 who died trying to open the alien reactor. Demon Core -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_core#/media/File:Partially-reflected-plutonium-sphere.jpeg


Bobs Alien Reactor Model - > https://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/Bob_Lazar_S4_Disc_Images/S4_Disc_Reactor_5.gif


...Who copied the E115 story from the Scientific American article that came out just 2 weeks prior.


Copied Billy Meiers saucer


Reticuli alien origin from Betty and Barny.


And finally the story of the gov having acquired a number of UFO's , one of which they could fly - from John Lear who told that story to Knapp 2 years before Bob came out with his S4 story. See Lear telling Knapp the story in 1987 for yourself
https://youtu.be/LGQkkHuwm6w?t=268


Both Bob and Gene Huff met Lear before his S4 story and they obtained Lear's UFO files including the Billy Meiers tapes. Here's a cut clip of Lear saying he showed Lazar the Meiers tape and Bob saying the UFO was like Meiers saucer
https://twitter.com/ddeanjohnson/status/1361674742030336003


Meiers was later busted completely as a fraud when pics he said were of alien women, turned out to be screen grabs from a Dean Martin TV special. When Bob gave his first brief interview in silhouette under the alias "Dennis" , that was filmed in a news van parked in John Lears driveway.


See for yourself
https://youtu.be/HyUlaZR0PoY?t=1549


...A guy that forged a W2. The W2 Bob showed had a Employer that did not exist. It noted the Department of Naval Intelligence rather than the Office of Naval Intelligence. The W2 was also typed and not printed - a huge red flag. It also had a bogus MAJ OMB number typed in when a legitimate OMB # was already there and printed. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJ6WCGEWoAAycu6.png


...A guy who took Biglelow night UFO spotting in 1990 at the same spot he took others previously, Bigelow heard a rustle and spotted Lazar letting loose a helium filled mylar balloon towards Papoose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUYhCmfE1a0


Bigelow also setup a company for Lazar to do research. Bigelow fired Lazar when he found Lazar was just using the lab to store furniture. Bigelow also said Lazar made claims about a material that didn't check out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOGHrxysBKI


According to Bob's court docs, Bigelow had paid him $2500/month
https://i.imgur.com/HepKKzm.jpg


Company Bigelow started with Lazar
https://i.imgur.com/P5cYqhH.jpg


Of course unbelievably, Bigelow still believed Lazar after all that

Interestingly, Bob had been employed to work for Bigelow's lab while at the same time he was running a brothel for which he was arrested for. The dates he was running the brothel according to the pandering court docs, and when he was meant to be at Bigelow's lab, line up. See point 5 above. No wonder he had no time for the lab.

Also noteworthy is that George Knapp never mentioned during that interview that he worked for Bigelow for several years in the late 90's to early 2000's for NIDS.

BTW, Janet flights came into A51 over Papoose twice a night - their landing lights shone at the Rachel area, A51 also conducted night tests of their secret aircraft nightly. They even let flares loose under balloons for reasons unknown.

Glenn Campbell wrote a 115 page A51 viewers guide about all this etc -> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006QZTYK/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Hear Lazar say some of this himself
https://youtu.be/SpaTKvEkdxU?t=3474

great info, the body language analysis is amazing. What a fraud

 

[StormCell]

By clear picture, I mean something that does not leave room for interpretation. Shown to a large group of people, 90% would agree about the shape, color, texture, and features of the object. Someone on this page posted a bunch of videos of people looking at a Goodyear blimp. Notice that all of the videos are from a certain distance that makes the object far away enough to be noticeable, but not close enough to be instantly identifiable. Why are there no videos from a much closer location? The object was over an urban area. Surely someone closer must have filmed it. Because no one that was close enough would bother to post the thing on the internet claiming it was a UFO, because they are close enough to know for a fact that it's just a blimp.

There's a selection process going on here that makes it so that every UFO footage will always follow this pattern. UFOs will always be captured at the limit of human pattern recognition. Any closer and we would know what it was.
Advanced fighter planes with infrared and zoom lenses capable of tracking objects miles away? It Will still always be far enough away that leaves room for interpretation. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a story, you wouldn't hear about it.

However, this isn't or hasn't necessarily been the case. Whenever so-called UAP footage is presented in broad daylight and with detail, no one believes it. Even when (if) such a video withstands intense scrutiny, most people roll their eyes and remark, "FAKE. It's staged, everyone. Why exactly were they filming at this particular moment? It's like they KNEW something was about to happen! Can't be real!" I've seen a few potentially very compelling videos only to never hear about them again, and that's just what happens to so-called UFO videos that seem to violate this litmus (selection process). Regarding the military pictures and videos, then that very selection process may be the reason why the media became unclassified -- what do you think? Could be very intentional. We've got supposed authority claims of UAP coming within meters of a fighter jet, so maybe THAT media will be released to the public one day, which should satisfy our lack of any sort of meaningful evidence.

So, it would seem to me that our very standards for acceptance of evidence are so rigorous that we dismiss any media evidence from a non-authority source, and the only evidence we are given from authorities fails the test.

 

[INC]

great info, the body language analysis is amazing. What a fraud

This dude disagrees

 

[Coolwhhip]

This dude disagrees

Just watch the other one, its hilarious. And it has 4 experts, so it's even more clear. Lazar in the past even said aliens modified humans and so on. He was just making shit up in interviews along the way and it was painfully obvious if you watch the clips they analyse.

 

[INC]

Just started it, well they have actual credentials lol

 

[Coolwhhip]

Back on topic of the current UFO shizzle. This dude showing the Gimbal video is legit is pretty cool.

 

[INC]

Back on topic of the current UFO shizzle. This dude showing the Gimbal video is legit is pretty cool.

Sorry I think this dude had a book out at some point, once in his life

Some people in the thread have deemed him full of shit because of it... apparently

 

[Coolwhhip]

Sorry I think this dude had a book out at some point, once in his life

Some people in the thread have deemed him full of shit because of it... apparently

He looks like a huge smart ass, but does seem to know what he is talking about here... judge for yourself

 

[INC]

He looks like a huge smart ass, but does seem to know what he is talking about here... judge for yourself

I do always, the issue with this topic, my opinion changes daily lol

 

[StormCell]

The thing is we wouldn't even know if they're perfectly hidden. So the only option left then is imperfectly hidden. We could have dozens of species coming here that are completely untraceable, and then maybe only see the less advanced species that are only a few thousand years ahead of us.

And I see the whole idea of "contact" as completely absurd. It's such a 1950s scifi thought process that some highly technical race would have any parallels to us at all if they're traveling light-years at will. It would be like us trying to contact a species of intelligent ape. There's nothing for us to gain outside of study or a curiosity. Even same could be said for indigenous humans. They're literally human but there's no real need to contact them other than to learn about them, but for the most part, we just leave them be. Aliens could have learned all they needed about us thousands of years ago.

I would think if dozens of species are coming here, they're all so far beyond us(way beyond us to indigenous humans) that the idea of contact is not even on their radar. Of course, humans, shepherds of the universe would assume that species 100x more advanced would need to contact them. The same planet where hundreds of different religions are all correct at the same time despite being different.

If aliens were ever coming here, they already know our threshold. They've seen us killing and warring our entire existence, and almost every huge discovery ever was made just to exert dominance and claim invisible borders. Monkeys with nukes still trying to crawl out of our cave(Earth).

You're not convincing me on this either. After reading the rest of the discussion, I've intended to come back to this point. Do you realize there isn't a tribe on Earth we haven't made contact with? I know of one tribe in South America we're afraid has died off before we could reach them (I believe) and one tribe on a tiny island in the Indian ocean that we have a no-contact agreement with who are extremely aggressive and our contact with them exposes them to illnesses that will wipe them out. Beyond these two exceptions, there's not a known life form on this planet we haven't or aren't seeking to make contact with...

On apes, elephants, and dolphins: we've taught gorillas to speak, elephants to paint, and dolphins looove hanging out around humans. I just can't fathom intelligent life crossing the lifeless void of space to find other complex, even intelligent life, and having no desire for contact. Humans are so communicative that you could know nothing about them but just from the air waves around this planet you would have thousands of hours of nonstop streaming video and audio to learn from. I know that if the roles were reversed and we had found an iron age civilization on Mars, we would probably be in contact with them. We would want to know everything we can find out about them (history, philosophy, religion, etc).

 

[manfestival]

Never looked in this thread. Totally enjoying everything that I am reading. Not sure why people are so hard on alien/ufo theory stuff. Do they just hate the thought of the possibility of there being something else out there?

 

[StormCell]

Never looked in this thread. Totally enjoying everything that I am reading. Not sure why people are so hard on alien/ufo theory stuff. Do they just hate the thought of the possibility of there being something else out there?

My 2-cents: there's usually a heavy population of conspiracy theorists who dwell around this topic. UFO just has a terrible reputation like ghosts and paranormal. It might as well be comic books only the people interested in them believe it's all real. lol

Honestly, this thread is quality. We don't really stray much from the actual topic of UAP and the collective whole that would be an alien civilization probing/visiting earth. There are a lot of other sub-topics this thread doesn't really cover that is far more fringe/cringe.

 

[Croatoan]

Personally I believe we are living in a simulation and either the simulation is breaking down or the experiment is moving on to a new stage. The person controlling the simulation, aka GOD, may just want to see how it all collapses.

This means that UFOs are either anomalies of a dying system, or possibly observation "cameras". The Mandela Effect is just us remembering a prior version of the simulation that has been hot fixed.

 

[INC]

Personally I believe we are living in a simulation and either the simulation is breaking down or the experiment is moving on to a new stage. The person controlling the simulation, aka GOD, may just want to see how it all collapses.

This means that UFOs are either anomalies of a dying system, or possibly observation "cameras". The Mandela Effect is just us remembering a prior version of the simulation that has been hot fixed.

No real proof of Mandela effect just people's memories, I do like the concept of it tho, the story goes the world ended with HAARP, and ever day after is simulation.

I mean simulation theory is just a plausible as god. But who's running the simulation.

 

[Croatoan]

No real proof of Mandela effect just people's memories, I do like the concept of it tho, the story goes the world ended with HAARP, and ever day after is simulation.

I mean simulation theory is just a plausible as god. But who's running the simulation.

The person, or persons, running the simulation would effectively be God. There was a mathematician (I think?) a while back that said that it is much more likely that we are living in a simulation created by advanced human beings than we are the OG humans.

The Mandela effect is insane though, like I vividly remember Queen's song ending with "We are the champions...of the world". Also, since when did C3PO have a silver leg in the original movies?

Most Mandela effect stuff is stupid but some of it really gets me. Also, I thought the Mandela theory was that when CERN was turned on two dimensions converged into themselves, thus some stuff changing and some remaining the same.

Edit: It was Oxford Philosipher Nick Bostrom who is not a mathmetician but stated that one of these three must be correct.

In 2003, philosopher Nick Bostrom proposed a trilemma that he called "the simulation argument". Despite the name, Bostrom's "simulation argument" does not directly argue that we live in a simulation; instead, Bostrom's trilemma argues that one of three unlikely-seeming propositions is almost certainly true:

1. "The fraction of human-level civilizations that reach a posthuman stage (that is, one capable of running high-fidelity ancestor simulations) is very close to zero", or
2. "The fraction of posthuman civilizations that are interested in running simulations of their evolutionary history, or variations thereof, is very close to zero", or
3. "The fraction of all people with our kind of experiences that are living in a simulation is very close to one."

The trilemma points out that a technologically mature "posthuman" civilization would have enormous computing power; if even a tiny percentage of them were to run "ancestor simulations" (that is, "high-fidelity" simulations of ancestral life that would be indistinguishable from reality to the simulated ancestor), the total number of simulated ancestors, or "Sims", in the universe (or multiverse, if it exists) would greatly exceed the total number of actual ancestors.

 

[QSD]

No real proof of Mandela effect just people's memories, I do like the concept of it tho, the story goes the world ended with HAARP, and ever day after is simulation.

Yeah Mandela effect is just the unreliability of human memory + people unwilling to accept that memory is unreliable

I mean simulation theory is just a plausible as god. But who's running the simulation.

Atlanteans

 

[StormCell]

No real proof of Mandela effect just people's memories, I do like the concept of it tho, the story goes the world ended with HAARP, and ever day after is simulation.

I mean simulation theory is just a plausible as god. But who's running the simulation.

I always find the argument that this reality is a simulation to be very interesting if not amusing. If something runs like a simulation but it is, in fact, the only one of its kind then what is it mimicking? I think the more accurate observation is that reality appears to function and operate similar to principles observed in computer science. The only reason we would consider it a simulation is because we believe there is something more real than this. How odd is that?

It's actually oddly spiritual. Some Christians think that this life is a mere testing ground and that true reality is hidden beyond a veil. Real life exists beyond here, in other words.

 

[INC]

The person, or persons, running the simulation would effectively be God. There was a mathematician (I think?) a while back that said that it is much more likely that we are living in a simulation created by advanced human beings than we are the OG humans.

The Mandela effect is insane though, like I vividly remember Queen's song ending with "We are the champions...of the world". Also, since when did C3PO have a silver leg in the original movies?

Most Mandela effect stuff is stupid but some of it really gets me. Also, I thought the Mandela theory was that when CERN was turned on two dimensions converged into themselves, thus some stuff changing and some remaining the same.

And if its aliens running the simulation, thats makes them god?

 

[Croatoan]

And if its aliens running the simulation, thats makes them god?

An sufficiently advanced species might as well be god to us. Regarldess of whether they are running our simulation or flesh and blood creatures in our universe. We are basically "GOD" to ants after all.

Yeah Mandela effect is just the unreliability of human memory + people unwilling to accept that memory is unreliable

Atlanteans

How do you explain so many people having the exact same faulty memory about very specific stuff? I understand what you are talking about though.

 

[Loki]

The Mandela effect is insane though, like I vividly remember Queen's song ending with "We are the champions...of the world".

Wait, what? It DOESN’T end like that? Well, not the very end, but I definitely remember that line towards the end of the song, then I feel like they just repeated “we are the champions” a couple more times until the end.

EDIT: I just googled the lyrics and it does actually end that way (we are the champions of the world).

 

[INC]

Wait, what? It DOESN’T end like that? Well, not the very end, but I definitely remember that line towards the end of the song, then I feel like they just repeated “we are the champions” a couple more times until the end.

EDIT: I just googled the lyrics and it does actually end that way (we are the champions of the world).

Houston we have a problem
Or
Houston we've had a problem

Which is it?

 

[Romulus]

You're not convincing me on this either. After reading the rest of the discussion, I've intended to come back to this point. Do you realize there isn't a tribe on Earth we haven't made contact with? I know of one tribe in South America we're afraid has died off before we could reach them (I believe) and one tribe on a tiny island in the Indian ocean that we have a no-contact agreement with who are extremely aggressive and our contact with them exposes them to illnesses that will wipe them out. Beyond these two exceptions, there's not a known life form on this planet we haven't or aren't seeking to make contact with...

On apes, elephants, and dolphins: we've taught gorillas to speak, elephants to paint, and dolphins looove hanging out around humans. I just can't fathom intelligent life crossing the lifeless void of space to find other complex, even intelligent life, and having no desire for contact. Humans are so communicative that you could know nothing about them but just from the air waves around this planet you would have thousands of hours of nonstop streaming video and audio to learn from. I know that if the roles were reversed and we had found an iron age civilization on Mars, we would probably be in contact with them. We would want to know everything we can find out about them (history, philosophy, religion, etc).

But you're missing my point. By contact, I mean the sharing of information. Theres a gain for both sides. Theres no gain from monkeys for us other than educating ourselves and curiousity. about them They can't forward our society by communicating. Neither can indigenous peoples in most cases and they're human.
If aliens ever visited earth, there might have been limited contact in the way we study and 'communicate' with monkeys.

As for indigenous people, contacting them was something thought of early in the modern world. There are groups now that protect their old way of life. Its progressed and evolved for the better. The same way a more advanced civilization might see things.

Heres the list of uncontacted peoples. It brushes on some of your post and adds to it. Theres definitely a line in the sand in many cultures between us and them, which is fascinating considering we have the same capacity.

Uncontacted peoples - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

As for contacting us in general, when would be the appropriate time to establish a dialogue for us? 10000 years ago, 1000? Now? 1000 years from now? Never? Its apparent they're not in any rush, so why? My thought is theyve already observed us to the degree that they could forecast our progression very accurately many years ago. They observed we're larger brained, warring mammals that have a thirst for knowledge. I would speculate our progression technologically is no surprise to them.

 

[StormCell]

But you're missing my point. By contact, I mean the sharing of information. Theres a gain for both sides. Theres no gain from monkeys for us other than educating ourselves and curiousity. about them They can't forward our society by communicating. Neither can indigenous peoples in most cases and they're human.
If aliens ever visited earth, there might have been limited contact in the way we study and 'communicate' with monkeys.

As for indigenous people, contacting them was something thought of early in the modern world. There are groups now that protect their old way of life. Its progressed and evolved for the better. The same way a more advanced civilization might see things.

Heres the list of uncontacted peoples. It brushes on some of your post and adds to it. Theres definitely a line in the sand in many cultures between us and them, which is fascinating considering we have the same capacity.

Uncontacted peoples - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

You may be right, but that's an awful lot of assumptions. We taught a gorilla to speak, and she taught us things we wouldn't have known about gorillas. For all any of us knew, she could have revealed to us that gorillas can read our thoughts [they don't, but still]. And we are certainly far more than either apes, elephants, or dolphins, especially in the eyes of an intelligent race of aliens who are probably seeking answers to the same kinds of questions we are. I don't know that, so it's my assumption.

I do feel like contact would probably make things more complicated, however. For one, it's always easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission, and these objects seem bent on free exploration of our planet for the moment. The moment contact happens, the whole world then has to be in agreement with allowing extra-terrestrials to come down and explore our planet. Good luck with that. Another consequence of contact is it immediately changes the order of power globally as there is now this outsider with far more power than any nation on the planet who is always sitting at ring side during our conflicts. That has enormous political impact at the present. It may in fact be something that has already happened and thus we're seeing the outcome, or it could be a reason why the objects aren't afraid of being seen but no contact is ever made.

It's confusing really, but contact is just a matter of when rather than if.

 

[Razorback]

However, this isn't or hasn't necessarily been the case. Whenever so-called UAP footage is presented in broad daylight and with detail, no one believes it. Even when (if) such a video withstands intense scrutiny, most people roll their eyes and remark, "FAKE. It's staged, everyone. Why exactly were they filming at this particular moment? It's like they KNEW something was about to happen! Can't be real!" I've seen a few potentially very compelling videos only to never hear about them again, and that's just what happens to so-called UFO videos that seem to violate this litmus (selection process). Regarding the military pictures and videos, then that very selection process may be the reason why the media became unclassified -- what do you think? Could be very intentional. We've got supposed authority claims of UAP coming within meters of a fighter jet, so maybe THAT media will be released to the public one day, which should satisfy our lack of any sort of meaningful evidence.

So, it would seem to me that our very standards for acceptance of evidence are so rigorous that we dismiss any media evidence from a non-authority source, and the only evidence we are given from authorities fails the test.

Yes, when the footage is of good quality we often dismiss it as fake. I believe this makes sense because people do make fakes and these videos usually follow some common patterns. They are the only source of the sighting, there aren't any other witnesses to the same event, the person responsible for it either is anonymous or is extremely lucky and manages to capture footage very frequently but without any corroborating witnesses, etc.

So point well taken. Clear footage of a single event is not enough. How much is enough? Well, I believe in Carl Sagan when he says that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." This isn't just a slogan that sounds good, it can kind of be defined in mathematical terms using probability theory or bayesian statistics.

A single credible UFO sighting that has no earthly explanation still requires a level of scrutiny that most people would find unreasonable. This is the proper way because the alien hypothesis to explain the data point forces us to update our model of reality in quite a substantial way. Those kinds of updates should not be done lightly. The weight of the evidence has to be so overwhelming that it leaves us no choice but to update, because random crazy events or series of coincidences that conspire to trick our senses are always in the cards statistically. One in a million chance things happen everyday. So we will always find ourselves capturing data of things we can't explain. It would be unreasonable to expect we can explain everything. That doesn't mean the explanation has to be some fantastical thing with lots of moving parts that changes our picture of reality. Sometimes people just hallucinate, even in groups. Sometimes light plays weird tricks on us. Perspective illusions, software bugs. The list goes on and on. Even experienced pilots are human. And there are thousands of pilots. Weird shit is bound to happen to some of them.

Regarding this claim that there's clear footage of the UFO meters away from the fighter jet. I find that very unlikely. The chances that there's someone claiming that the footage exists is much higher than the footage actually existing. I predict no such footage will ever be released by the government.

 

[Romulus]

You may be right, but that's an awful lot of assumptions. We taught a gorilla to speak, and she taught us things we wouldn't have known about gorillas. For all any of us knew, she could have revealed to us that gorillas can read our thoughts [they don't, but still]. And we are certainly far more than either apes, elephants, or dolphins, especially in the eyes of an intelligent race of aliens who are probably seeking answers to the same kinds of questions we are. I don't know that, so it's my assumption.

I do feel like contact would probably make things more complicated, however. For one, it's always easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission, and these objects seem bent on free exploration of our planet for the moment. The moment contact happens, the whole world then has to be in agreement with allowing extra-terrestrials to come down and explore our planet. Good luck with that. Another consequence of contact is it immediately changes the order of power globally as there is now this outsider with far more power than any nation on the planet who is always sitting at ring side during our conflicts. That has enormous political impact at the present. It may in fact be something that has already happened and thus we're seeing the outcome, or it could be a reason why the objects aren't afraid of being seen but no contact is ever made.

It's confusing really, but contact is just a matter of when rather than if.

The issue with communication with animals is expressing complex thoughts. Theres a gap there between us and them, like imagine talking to someone in only very broken sentences for example. It works but as a species we're limited by how much we can receive from the animal from a delivery and capacity standpoint. It's a double whammy. They've not evolved for complex thoughts or language. We do see some wow moments here and there from animals, but nothing a very young child can't do.

 

[Coolwhhip]

If these dudes can fly to other galaxies I'm sure we're not the first planet with life they encountered. Maybe with the first few civilisations they encountered they made contact and it always ended miserably. So since then they decided "let's just observe".

 

[QSD]

How do you explain so many people having the exact same faulty memory about very specific stuff? I understand what you are talking about though.

This I would need to do case by case, but for example the "houston we have a problem" case below, there might be a movie or trailer everyone saw that misquotes the real quote. In the case of Mandela (I think this is about him dying before he died, right?) it's probably people remembering the funeral of some other public/humanitarian icon

 

[INC]

If these dudes can fly to other galaxies I'm sure we're not the first planet with life they encountered. Maybe with the first few civilisations they encountered they made contact and it always ended miserably. So since then they decided "let's just observe".

What if theyre not travelling massive distances at all, just shifting to another slice, in the multiverse loaf.....

 

[Coolwhhip]

What if theyre not travelling massive distances at all, just shifting to another slice, in the multiverse loaf.....

 

[INC]

Can u tell I've had my getting home zoot?

 

[Airola]

The Mandela effect is insane though, like I vividly remember Queen's song ending with "We are the champions...of the world".

Hey WTF, I was like "but it really ends with ...of the world" and did first a google search of the lyrics which showed that yeah it ends with "...of the world", but then went to listen to it on Youtube and what the hell, there's no "...of the world" in the end

But then again, I'm not sure if I've ever really truly listened to it from the beginning to the end very closely and all I remember is all the other instances of the chorus where it ends on that and I've just assumed the whole song also ends with that.

 

[StormCell]

Regarding this claim that there's clear footage of the UFO meters away from the fighter jet. I find that very unlikely. The chances that there's someone claiming that the footage exists is much higher than the footage actually existing. I predict no such footage will ever be released by the government.

I think that the chances of something fitting this description existing is better than not considering the claim has been made and, irrc, it has been repeated by multiple officials. I would be shocked if such an encounter never happened or if it did happen but no video was recorded. Considering the number of these events that have been tallied by US intelligence that are unidentified, it's likely that this event may well have been one of the encounters with Chinese or Russian hypersonic weaponry. I don't expect it to be unclassified anytime soon.

Also I wanted to add: our discussions of UAP/UFO don't necessarily have to point to aliens. Belief in truly unidentified objects that aren't earthly also don't have to mean aliens. It's a wide open topic. I'm convinced there are objects we can't identify, but I'm not sure if it's aliens. The congressional report we're waiting on pretty much says the same. We can't rule out aliens, but as you quoted Sagan, it's going to require extraordinary evidence. You don't rule out the possibility, but it's not your first assumption, right?

 

[Airola]

Wait, what? It DOESN’T end like that? Well, not the very end, but I definitely remember that line towards the end of the song, then I feel like they just repeated “we are the champions” a couple more times until the end.

EDIT: I just googled the lyrics and it does actually end that way (we are the champions of the world).

No, it doesn't end with "of the world", even though the lyrics claim otherwise. Listen to the song on youtube, you'll be surprised
"...of the world" appears in many other parts in the song though. Made me really confused for a moment though!

 

[INC]

No, it doesn't end with "of the world", even though the lyrics claim otherwise. Listen to the song on youtube, you'll be surprised
"...of the world" appears in many other parts in the song though. Made me really confused for a moment though!

Maybe because the live aid version is where people remember it mostly, last main Freddie line is exactly that.."of the world"

 

[StormCell]

No, it doesn't end with "of the world", even though the lyrics claim otherwise. Listen to the song on youtube, you'll be surprised
"...of the world" appears in many other parts in the song though. Made me really confused for a moment though!

Are there not other recordings of this song besides the one you're specifically referring to? Are they not possibly different?

 

[GloveSlap]

After watching these two videos i stopped believing in Bob Lazars stories:

Nice post. And yeah, Lazar has been debunked into the dirt ten times over. Can't stand the guy, because i do think this stuff deserves serious study.

Seeing him get all defensive in a recent interview when someone asked to see the paper copies of his imaginary diplomas was hilarious. Dude is a joke.

 

[Romulus]

 

[noonjam]

This is probably premature for me to even talk about, someone reached out to me and has assured me I'm going to be in a zoom call with former CIA heads, office of navy research and people who's bona fides are easy to track and they are concerned about the messaging of all of this to the public, dampening down panic and conspiracy theories but what is being promised here is a disclosure that is frankly either the most alarming or interesting thing in the world depending on how you take it. But it's not a representation of the facts that will give scientific skeptics any comfort. we are faced with the prospect of having to apologize to the people we have laughed at for the past 50 years who have been abducted or had cattle mutilated.

 

[Romulus]

But it's not a representation of the facts that will give scientific skeptics any comfort. we are faced with the prospect of having to apologize to the people we have laughed at for the past 50 years

Hell no. There are infinite fallbacks if you want to hold your ground and hunker down as a super skeptic.


Great UFO video=CGI

Great video and overwhelming sensor evidence=Government conspiracy for "funding."

 

[QSD]

This is probably premature for me to even talk about, someone reached out to me and has assured me I'm going to be in a zoom call with former CIA heads, office of navy research and people who's bona fides are easy to track and they are concerned about the messaging of all of this to the public, dampening down panic and conspiracy theories but what is being promised here is a disclosure that is frankly either the most alarming or interesting thing in the world depending on how you take it. But it's not a representation of the facts that will give scientific skeptics any comfort. we are faced with the prospect of having to apologize to the people we have laughed at for the past 50 years who have been abducted or had cattle mutilated.

This really isn't the hardest thing in the world, just say you were wrong, apologize for any ridiculing you may have done, and join the rest of us in wonderment over the coming revelations. Even the biggest believer understands the needs for skeptics in the game. If they just say they're sorry and show some humility/remorse I don't think anyone will continue to rake them over the coals. It's mostly their own pride that's at stake IMHO

 

[INC]

Not sure how accurate this actually is, interesting way to showing it tho

 

[Airola]

Are there not other recordings of this song besides the one you're specifically referring to? Are they not possibly different?

INCUBASE gave that answer above you.
The Live Aid concert had that ending, and probably some other live performances too. But the original recording doesn't seem to have it.

 

[INC]

INCUBASE gave that answer above you.
The Live Aid concert had that ending, and probably some other live performances too. But the original recording doesn't seem to have it.

Plus that song gets played at almost all sporting events, when a champion is crowded, and I guarantee everyone sings "of the world" again, at the end of the song. Its habit and memory, not the Mandela effect