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All The Last of Us 2 leaks/spoilers in here and nowhere else.

ZZZZ

Member
The Last of Us has always been shades of grey. The characterisations are not there purely to make you like or hate them. Joel, Ellie, Abby and even minor characters.

Abbys journey was moving past revenge to redemption. Like Joel in the first game, coming to terms with the evil shit you had done and trying to rebuild in the emptiness. She is a reflection of both Joel and Ellie - the lengths hatred and revenge will drive you to, and that it will only engender more cycles of hate.

Joel was the character at the end of this redemption, he had found peace. Abby committed her revenge and was dealing with rebuilding, she went through life altering personal changes trying to find meaning. She abandoned the WLF as she grasped onto Lev and Yara in the same way Joel had grasped on to Ellie.

Ellie was stuck on her fixation with hate and revenge - never feeling complete until she gained revenge. The same way we see Abby fixated on it in flashbacks to her younger years. Both characters reject love while fixated on hate.

In the end Ellie was about to complete and continue the cycle of hate but it was her understanding of Joel that pulled her back. She didn't care for Abby, she was the one character who stayed her hand when it mattered most. Ellie finished the story as redeemable, not losing to the hatred, while Joel and Abby did not.

At least that's my take on it.
Yeah, i got you. it's why i love Cohh spoiler talk so much.
Some people are going to pull something and hold on to it and say this is incredible and look to others and think, "why don't you feel the same way". While others will pull the same thing or something else and say "this is a mess".
The game is polarizing.
Honestly, ND abusing false marking, sony's double standard with censorship, the critics all giving this game a perfect score and acting like it's the Schindler's list of video games and Neil acting like a child on twitter doesn't help, people will expect a masterpiece when they spent their hard earned 60$, so when the game doesn't deliver to some the backlash is immense.
 

Eiknarf

Banned
For those who are familiar with the commercial ad where Ellie says,
“I’m gonna find and I’m gonna kill every. last. one. of them”
Where and when does she say that in the game?

I’m 24 hours in and yet to hear it.

Was it solely for the ad?
 
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Dick Jones

Banned
I'm just after finishing the game on survivor. I have never felt so drained after playing a game. It's unbelievable how tough and rewarding the game was. I also fucked up every dog on site. Little bastards. I loved the encounter in the park and wished there were more. Stalkers were the toughest for me.

I will wait for the PS5 and have another crack at it and clean up for the platinum trophy.
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
Omg what an ending. That's unexpected seeing how the game started but... Poor Abby holy shit. BTW. The fireflies are not real in santa Barbara? It's was jus the slavers bait?
And what is the assumption with Dina and Ellie? Jackson?
I will need some good YT video to think about all of this
 
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Karppuuna

Member
I have only played ellie part and it was great, now its time to play abbys part, im going in for open-minded and let the story do the talking, i know what the end is but im curious to see abbys side of it.
It suddenly occurred me that this is actually Last Of Us 2 and 3 in a same disc and price, i just played the part 2 and im now starting part 3.

I have to give Naughty Dog credit for butting 2 games in 1 price, look example for Resident Evil 3 a 4-5 hour game and 60€ tac.
 

ZZZZ

Member
Omg what an ending. That's unexpected seeing how the game started but... Poor Abby holy shit. BTW. The fireflies are not real in santa Barbara? It's was jus the slavers bait?
And what is the assumption with Dina and Ellie? Jackson?
I maybe wrong but i think the new image at the main menu after you beat the game is that Abby and Lev reached the fireflies.
Nothing on Dina or Ellie. If i have to take a guess Dina will take the baby to a closed city like Jackson, and Ellie will roam like Joel once did, looking for a reason to exist, while struggling with survival.

I have only played ellie part and it was great, now its time to play abbys part, im going in for open-minded and let the story do the talking, i know what the end is but im curious to see abbys side of it.
It suddenly occurred me that this is actually Last Of Us 2 and 3 in a same disc and price, i just played the part 2 and im now starting part 3.

I have to give Naughty Dog credit for butting 2 games in 1 price, look example for Resident Evil 3 a 4-5 hour game and 60€ tac.
I disagree with you, i think this game is about setting up part 3, with Abby and Lev as the main characters.
 
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Tiamat2san

Member
Omg what an ending. That's unexpected seeing how the game started but... Poor Abby holy shit. BTW. The fireflies are not real in santa Barbara? It's was jus the slavers bait?
And what is the assumption with Dina and Ellie? Jackson?

I think it was bait too.

Very good game, some flaws (filler parts, teenager romance), some very good moments.
Maybe a little too long , combat was better than the first game but still not great.
Abby is a great character.
I think they shouldn’t have made her that big, it was way too distracting at times.
It at least said she found some steroids or something.
If she a little less muscular as in the first trailers she would have been perfect.

Still the game doesn’t deserve the hate .
 

Karppuuna

Member
I disagree with you, i think this game is about setting up part 3, with Abby and Lev as the main characters.

Technically this is 2, but if they would have separate the storys then it could easily been 2 and 3 or at-least 2 and DLC.
 
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rofif

Can’t Git Gud
I think it was bait too.

Very good game, some flaws (filler parts, teenager romance), some very good moments.
Maybe a little too long , combat was better than the first game but still not great.
Abby is a great character.
I think they shouldn’t have made her that big, it was way too distracting at times.
It at least said she found some steroids or something.
If she a little less muscular as in the first trailers she would have been perfect.

Still the game doesn’t deserve the hate .
She got swole for in spite for revenge... But when You see her at the end... God... She had to be this strong looking to show what happens to her
 

Fake

Member
Rat King


22I1o3v.jpg

This art work is so fucking cool.
 

Collin

Banned
I truly can’t think of a games or movies or even tv shows story that has ever been this genuinely divisive with people. People say GOT season 8 but that was more generally hated across the board. It’s truly fascinating to me. Neither side, whether you love it or hate it, can claim that their side is really the majority. I’d love to see a poll done because i’m not even sure what side is more popular right now.
 
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Umbral

Member
“Just what this town needs, another loud-mouthed dyke!”

Really? Really? Nobody says this nowadays. There had to have been a better way to show Ellie pushing Joel away than that.

”I love you.”

”Prove it.”

Wow, that old ultimatum. Do what I say or you don’t really love me. That along with Dina’s interaction with Tommy when he comes to visit makes me dislike her even more. This character sucks. If hunters got her while Ellie was away, I wouldn’t care. Even now that I know her history and that her and Ellie have been friends for a long time, I still don’t care about her.
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
I truly can’t think of a games or movies or even tv shows story that has ever been this genuinely divisive with people. People say GOT season 8 but that was more generally hated across the board. It’s truly fascinating to me. Neither side, whether you love it or hate it, can claim that their side is really the majority. I’d love to see a poll done because i’m not even sure what side is more popular right now.
It's because of out of context leaks and negativity. And it's the only game where they make you play the "bad guy" and it works. It was such a rollercoaster of emotions for me.
Only other games that made me cry this generation were the last guardian and death stranding
 

Madflavor

Member
I truly can’t think of a games or movies or even tv shows story that has ever been this genuinely divisive with people. People say GOT season 8 but that was more generally hated across the board. It’s truly fascinating to me. Neither side, whether you love it or hate it, can claim that their side is really the majority. I’d love to see a poll done because i’m not even sure what side is more popular right now.

The Last Jedi. Critical darling, completely split amongst fans.
 

Collin

Banned
“Just what this town needs, another loud-mouthed dyke!”

Really? Really? Nobody says this nowadays. There had to have been a better way to show Ellie pushing Joel away than that.

”I love you.”

”Prove it.”

Wow, that old ultimatum. Do what I say or you don’t really love me. That along with Dina’s interaction with Tommy when he comes to visit makes me dislike her even more. This character sucks. If hunters got her while Ellie was away, I wouldn’t care. Even now that I know her history and that her and Ellie have been friends for a long time, I still don’t care about her.

I agree that line is stupid and unrealistic but my issue is that people have blown it up like the whole game is constantly about lesbian oppression and make this narrative that the evil neil cuckmann is out of control with his sjw politics. As far as I can remember that is the one and only line in a 30 hour game (+ the bigot sandwiches line, which is a follow up to the same scene) that references lesbian oppression in the game. Besides that everyone else in the game seems wildly cool with Ellie and Dina being a couple and barely mentions it.
 

ZZZZ

Member
But last Jedi is just bad no matter of story... Tlou2 Makes way more sense.
Tlj is not bag because it's different but because it badly drops plot points b and have bad characters
Plenty of critics and fans liked it.
 
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Madflavor

Member
But last Jedi is just bad no matter of story... Tlou2 Makes way more sense.
Tlj is not bag because it's different but because it badly drops plot points b and have bad characters

Yeah but that's your opinion dude. And believe me, I'm with you. I think TLJ was unintentionally hilarious with how bad the writing was. But our opinions don't change the fact that the movie was indeed divisive amongst the fans.
 

Karppuuna

Member
This all thing is exposing to our eyes. All of these streamers are fucking tits sucking fuckers, how are using this game for sucking more!
There are some good guys how are talking honesty but are taking 10t kills, what the fuck is that.

You people are saying that youtube reviews are honest and close you're fucking eyes. Do you people have double Standard or what!
 

Karppuuna

Member
This is prime example that single youtuber review could be shit, people can easily effect them, look at those poor pasterds how say that the game is good, go fucking look at them !
 

Arachnid

Member
I thought this was one of the ballsiest narratives I've experienced in a game. I went in without having been spoiled at all. I just finished it and I'm a bit of an emotional wreck

The decision to kill Joel off so early just infuriated me. I got put in the shoes of this character Abby, who after being saved by Joel turns around and tortures and kills him. I felt implicated, and it was so sudden it felt unearned. Who the fuck is this butch ass Abby?

First point where the game really made me feel the hatred narrative it was going for.

And slowly but surely the death of Joel would be the bedrock for the game. It added weight to every scene he was in. You saw the growth of Ellie and Joel together. Knowing that Joel would die, every happy moment or sad moment had more weight for me. It was like thinking of the things you regret saying to a passed loved one.

I felt justice hunting down Joels killers as Ellie. And then Druckmann had the balls to pull the rug from me again when it was all unravelling, this can't Abby was about to win. And now I'm playing as her?

I was ready to throw my controller out the window. I'm glad I didn't though. I played as Abby, first hating the experience. Then it got more and more interesting. Some truly incredible moments in her arc. As much as I just wanted to be back as Ellie, the quality of these moments kept surpassing themselves. The tower of clickers was one of the scariest levels I've had in a game. Closesly followed by the hospital basement. The scars island was insane.

I ended up feeling like I still wanted her dead, but I understood her completely as a character in a way that is rare for an antagonist

And then Druckmann does it again. I'm fighting Ellie as Abby. Are you kidding? I died like 5 times trying not to win. Its a pretty rare feeling in a game and I appreciated it even if it was so uncomfortable.

By the end I maintained this strange mix of emotions. I got to play as Abby one last time and for the first time I was excited to be in one of her parts. And when it came to the final fight it felt so earned, a true character story of both protagonist and antagonist really fundamentally built up in a way I can't compare. I both wanted Abby dead and didnt want her dead. I think I felt very much like Ellie did and that was a great success for story telling

As it all tied back to Joel and Ellie I was left bitter-sweet as the credits rolled just as the first game had left me

If you're avoiding this game because "SJW" I'd implore you to reconsider and go in with an open mind. Anything like thst is really just background. I'd call out pandering nonsense wherever I see it but that's not this game. Every narrative beat is earned
Yeah, after finally seeing the full story, I think the hate was way overblown. The worst of leaks ended up being completely false 4chan bs just to rile people up. It was pretty good.

Still, fuck players being forced to play as Abby for half the game. I hate it when games do this lol. I hated it in MGS2, I hated it even more in MGSV, and I hated it here.
 

Grinchy

Banned
This all thing is exposing to our eyes. All of these streamers are fucking tits sucking fuckers, how are using this game for sucking more!
There are some good guys how are talking honesty but are taking 10t kills, what the fuck is that.

You people are saying that youtube reviews are honest and close you're fucking eyes. Do you people have double Standard or what!

This is prime example that single youtuber review could be shit, people can easily effect them, look at those poor pasterds how say that the game is good, go fucking look at them !

Reading this reminded me of those AI chat bots who never really came close to passing the Turing test.
 

ZZZZ

Member
This all thing is exposing to our eyes. All of these streamers are fucking tits sucking fuckers, how are using this game for sucking more!
There are some good guys how are talking honesty but are taking 10t kills, what the fuck is that.

You people are saying that youtube reviews are honest and close you're fucking eyes. Do you people have double Standard or what!
This is prime example that single youtuber review could be shit, people can easily effect them, look at those poor pasterds how say that the game is good, go fucking look at them !
What? LOL

Someone is going crazy.
tumblr_obub7rzmP91tz83xjo1_250.gif
 
I have a perfect idea on how they could have changed part of the ending so that it makes sense, and still keep their beloved new hulk character. Instead of Ellie flashing back to Joel, which would have only motivated her even more to kill her, especially after fingers get nomnomed. Lilly/Lev would have gotten up from the boat and seen what was going on and begged Ellie to "Please stop" she then flashes back to that evening of her saying that and remembers how she felt. It is this that gives her a change of heart. Boom! Mic drop. Plus they get to act like tranny kid saved the day cause brave. What yall think?
 

iorek21

Member
Just finished Ellie's part and began Abby's. I think that I'll end up liking the second half better than the first.

I mean, what the fuck? Ellie's story is SUCH A DRAG, it's too fucking long and has little to no story.

Literally almost nothing happens through Seattle Day 1-3, aside from the actual ending. It's just a bunch of walking around, looting, killing and sometimes a bit of dialogue.

Really, i find it impressive that the same team from TLOU1, which had meaninful story beats constantly managed to write something so hollow as Ellie's part. Aside from a couple of flashbacks with Joel, nothing had enough quality story-wise.

Abby's part shows a lot more promise because I know that stuff will happen in it
 

Karppuuna

Member
I can understand that you people are phasing me, i still got the other half to go so i fucking call you if i loose my balls on to way!
 
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Finished the first game again. Probably for the last time in my life. It's still a great game. The emotional scenes still hit me right in the feels.

Druckmann is like George Lucas and star wars. TLOU1 is his original trilogy. The result of a collaborative work. TLOU2 is the prequel trilogy. Druckmann has total control and no one to tell him no.

And Abby is his jar jar binks.
 
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JeloSWE

Member
Just finished the game. I avoided all discussions and spoilers, as I don't want any ones opinion affecting me but it was impossible to avoid that there were a lot of complaints sigh. The game is a freaking master piece, it's amazing such big budget game dares to tell the story like this. I thought the Abby part were going to be just long enough to maybe make you understand here motives but it was almost half the game and made you truly start empathize with here in the end. The game turned out to be an amazing emotional roller coaster, I felt so conflicted and was so scared that I had to make a difficult choice in the end of either killing the other. In the final fight I really thought Abby were going to die and I truly started to sob when Ellie has the vision of Joel as then I knew she would let here live.

On a technical level I think ND truly are gods among men, this is the most impressive game I've ever played, especially considering the hardware. There aren't many studios able to output such a level of technical quality and art direction.

The only minor complaint I have is that walking around while the characters had a dialogue going on, at some camera angels their voice couldn't be heard so I had to use subtitles throughout the game. I was some times forces to move around and keep the camera facing the the talking person to hear them and it really slowed down some of the exploration.
 
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TissueBox

Member
I both love and hate that Druckmann (and co., but particularly the Druck) allows his characters to be killed so brazenly.

On one hand, so many fictional narratives start out convincing you this is a grisly world where anyone can die -- except, as the story goes on, the main characters somehow get more and more lucky (thanks, plot armor). It's fine in a confined time window, but it becomes apparent in long form fiction that it's just legitimately hard to write a story with building character arcs if the next minute none of it will matter because everyone's dead aaaand cure perspective shift.

Honestly, you can barely fault a writer for caving into practicality. Stories require order; conflicts; beginning, middle, and end. If characters are dying left and right, how do you tell a story without feeling like you're constantly smacking the reset button?

So it's bold to see ND showcase mortality so bluntly. Ahh who doesn't love the feeling of rigor mortis in the mornin'.

But of course, on the other hand, it can cross over to feeling uninspired if the characters aren't actually enriched enough beforehand. Their meaningful deaths must be earned, must go beyond just a heavy story moment. Otherwise it risks becoming part-shock value, as is the case with most examples who the above apply to (killing characters you care about, only to forget about that after a while and eventually just throw plot armor on everyone, inconsistent with the previous supposed tone -- or just killing everybody to the point that it becomes predictable and dull).

In that same vein, if everyone on TeamEllie died, and TeamAbby ended up not just superseding them but actually taking over, I would've loved it, as long as the story was able to reach that level of gloomy, abysmal darkness. Storytellers have the right to do what they want; it's all in the how. It's all in the why.

This is almost impossible to do in the case of fandom -- you'll break too many hearts. But stories of that kind can be told, too. It's not 'reality' -- it's just another way to explore dark narrative territory.

In this case, what ND was trying to do with TLOUPII doesn't quite work, but primarily because of what it is in practice, rather than on paper, iyam. Abby is no villain, and Ellie is as much of a heroine as anybody else. Both deserve to die -- both deserve a better life.
 
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TissueBox

Member
I think the character I feel saddest for is Tommy. Everyone's lived a rollercoaster of a life. But hooboi -- his relationship and history with Joel and then the Fireflies and afterward were undoubtedly some to put the events of TLOUPII on the other end of the weight scale. For it to end with Abby's assault, and then culminate in a half-botched revenge rampage, and leave him a broken, one-eyed wretch who sounds nothing like the 'protagonist proper' he was in the original TLOU, well, sh*t -- we basically found him redeemed in the first game, learning to exercise selflessness and productivity through community, only for all those years to be trashed with the death of Joel, and for his redemption arc to be completely undone.

Ellie is still young; she has her whole life ahead of her, as brutal as it already has been on her (in a way that perhaps only she can ever understand, too). But Tommy's character arc just hurts. This I feel genuine ache for. *sobering nod*

I know other characters have had it harder or just as hard (and have more of a right to sympathy, ie Dina), but... I admit, I always saw Tommy as one of the last bastions of badass goodness in TLOU. ND knew what they were doing here and it's a right blow to the chin. As Ellie told Dina, (or something like it), "I don't want to ruin your image of him." O, sweet prince! xP
 
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Umbral

Member
I have only played ellie part and it was great, now its time to play abbys part, im going in for open-minded and let the story do the talking, i know what the end is but im curious to see abbys side of it.
It suddenly occurred me that this is actually Last Of Us 2 and 3 in a same disc and price, i just played the part 2 and im now starting part 3.

I have to give Naughty Dog credit for butting 2 games in 1 price, look example for Resident Evil 3 a 4-5 hour game and 60€ tac.
Difference is I have no problem firing up RE3 to run through it. These types of games tend to be a one and done for me. They’re too littered with narrative, walkie-talkie moments, scripted moments, and cutscenes to replay regularly. This one is also very long.
 
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