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DF Weekly: What does the Switch 2 motherboard leak say about system performance?
- Thread starter Thick Thighs Save Lives
- Start date
- Opinion Analysis
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
How do you know this?
Radical_3d
Member
I was hoping since what I definitively haven’t seen was third party and those team doesn’t get the most out of a console (and in the early days, at that). But whatever. If it can retro play and scale Switch 1 I’ll still buy it.
Sebastian1295
Member
I watched the digital foundry video and they said that the switch 2 will run ps4 ports at lower resolutions and framerates than said ps4 games based off the specs that have been leaked. It sounds like they don't expect ps4 ports to look as good on the switch 2 which is frankly pathetic honestly.
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Woopah
Member
Didn't they said it will generate PS4 ports at lower resolutions and use DLSS to output at higher resolutions?
OuterLimits
Member
Why would Nintendo change? They will make a profit on each console sold immediately on Day 1, and once again their popular software will sell millions of copies over numerous years without even needing a price cut. They don't care if people on forums cry about it not being powerful enough. That is not the consumer they are targeting.
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Ornoku
Member
Nvidia did have another chip for them, Nintendo chose the one they did because it was a dollar cheaper.
asdasdasdbb
Member
If anything NV would have been thrilled really (provided Nintendo paid for the costs). I think there's some amount of embarassment from NV's side, ha.
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kevboard
Member
because aside from clock speeds we know the entire hardware of it?
like, literally the only mystery is clock speeds.
it's GPU has 1536 cuda cores, each handles 2 instructions per clock:
1536 x 2 x 400 = 1,228,800
(1.23 TFLOPS at 400 MHz)
1536 x 2 x 460 = 1,413,120
(1.41 TFLOPS at 460 MHz, the handheld clock speed of the Switch 1, this beats the Xbox One S)
1536 x 2 x 768 = 2,359,296
(2.36 TFLOPS at 768 MHz, the docked clock speed of the Switch 1, this easily beats the PS4)
1536 x 2 x 1000 = 3,072,000
(3.07 TFLOPS at 1 GHz, the base clock of the Steam Deck GPU)
the full die version of the chip that the T239 is based on, the Tegra Orin AGX, can clock up to 1.3 GHz as per its official specs, which if the T239 can also clock this high in docked mode, where battery power is no concern, it would reach 3.99 TFLOPS.
the Steam Deck GPU can boost to 1.6 GHz with a base clock of 1 GHz, but it usually hangs around 1.2-ish GHz, +/- 100 MHz, which with it's 8 RDNA2 compute units gives it on average 1.2 TFLOPS of GPU power during most scenarios.
8 x 64 x 1200 x 2 = 1,228,800 (1.23 TFLOPS)
[8 CUs] x [64 shaders per CU] x [clock speed] x [2 instructions per clock]
so as you can see, from a raw GPU power perspective the T239 can match the Steam Deck's GPU by running at only ⅓ of the clock speed of the Deck.
and yes you can not directly compare RDNA2 to Ampere, and there are other factors at play when it comes to the end result of how any given GPU can perform (memory bandwidth being a potential bottlekneck here for example),
however, this gives us a ballpark estimation of what it can perform like in the best case scenario where it's fully GPU limited.
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Sebastian1295
Member
DLSS isn't a magic cure. If the base resolution is low enough then it dosen't matter what upscaling technique they use because the image is going to look terrible. DLSS is good but the switch 2 hardware itself is underpowered beyond belief and even digital foundry say that nintendo are using 8nm because they're being cheap and want the lowest deal possible even if it means outdated tech.
Shaki12345
Member
That's what they said. People tripping here but nobody knows anything until Nintendo reveals it. Have some patience, go play some games and sooner than later all will be revealed.
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CrustyBritches
Gold Member
So now we're underclocking the Deck by 25%?
DF themselves said Switch 2 will use DLSS to output it higher than base PS4.
kevboard
Member
we are not. the deck runs at 1.2 GHz in most games.
the advertised 1.6 GHz boost clocks are almost never reached, and if it does boost to that, it will quickly drop again.
same with the ROG Ally, which is advertised with 2.7 GHz, which is completely unrealistic and it usually drops to 2 GHz or below during normal use after a few minutes of gameplay.
1.2 GHz is from my experience all you should expect to get on the Deck. it's highly variable however.
I'm currently playing Ghostrunner 2 on it, here's what the clock speeds look like:
(had to take a picture with my phone since the Steam screenshot function doesn't record the overlay)
and this is a scenario where the CPU is completely underutilized, now imagine the clock speeds once the CPU is actually doing shit and the shared TDP need to accommodate both.
between 1.1 GHz and 1.3 GHz is realistic, with some games reaching maybe 1.4 GHz for prolonged durations if you're super lucky and everything lines up just right.
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SweetTooth
Gold Member
So .. Switch 2 is as capable as Xbox One from 12 years ago ...
I miss PSP when it was really close to PS2 in 2004 (looks elegant too not toy like)
I miss PSP when it was really close to PS2 in 2004 (looks elegant too not toy like)
kevboard
Member
the PSP wasn't even remotely close to the PS2.
for one it targeted 272p while the PS2 targeted 480p, which is a substantial resolution difference.
games like God of War Chains of Olympus could barely hold 30fps while rendering at 480x272.
Meanwhile God of War 2 on PS2 ran smoother, while having better effects, better assets and running at 512x448.
130,560 vs 229,376 pixels. a 75% increase in resolution from PSP to PS2 + 15-20fps higher average framerate + higher resolution effects + higher fidelity assets in very comparable games (same frachise, same game design with fixed cameras and combat arenas)
Developers were able to make games look similar to PS2 titles. but that doesn't mean they were similar in performance. the tiny screen and super low resolution did help to hide the drawbacks in GPU power.
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March Climber
Member
I also miss when handhelds used to run at 480p resolution on a 4 inch screen so that the extra power could go directly into their games.
daclynk
Member
I’m sorry to have such a ridiculously hot take in this thread but…
I think the Switch 2 specs are ok.
Darkness_Arises
Member
Forget about DLSS, people in here expecting better RT on this underpowered SoC. The anemic nature of the on-chip tensor cores means that it can do one of 2: basic ass RT or bottom of the barrel tier DLSS (1440p performance max, IMO). RT with absolute shit tier IQ is a real possibility with the Switch 2, much worse than the 540p internal IQ on XSS that people on this forum have been bitching about.
SweetTooth
Gold Member
Its not like Switch is running Max screen resolution.
Maybe Nintendo should have supplied it with 480p screen to match its specs
Mister Wolf
Member
Yes. Even better upscaling and latency reduction. We also do not know what Ada Lovelace features are being backported.
apple_of_enlightenment
Member
Is there really such a big difference between PS4 and PS4 Pro?
It's nice to see all this power talking, but it really feels like a vacuum here carved out from a 1990s/2000s mindset.
Not to say the discussion is invalid, but the 99.99% of this market including me are not going to care.
It's nice to see all this power talking, but it really feels like a vacuum here carved out from a 1990s/2000s mindset.
Not to say the discussion is invalid, but the 99.99% of this market including me are not going to care.
Zuzu
Member
It’s disappointing that it’s not more advanced technology but it’ll still be alright. Nintendo can now deliver a Zelda game with graphics at the level of Uncharted 4 or The Last of Us Part 2 with some ray-tracing and a bit better image quality using DLSS if they want to. That’s going to be pretty sweet.
SweetTooth
Gold Member
Nintendo literally can't do this even if Switch had a 5090 GPU inside it.
They make simple cartoony games with good gameplay. They are not capable of doing more than that.
Team Andromeda
Member
It's Nintendo for crying out loud. What did people expect?
That said a handheld Xbox One/PS4 isn't that bad.
That said a handheld Xbox One/PS4 isn't that bad.
Emedan
Member
This nonsens has to stop. It's a portable device - You have to balance performance with battery life. PS5 being 10TF haven't helped them release any more games..Ps4 performance for a new 400 dollar console releasing in 2025 is an embarrassment and no one should defend this crap not even nintendo fans. The switch 2 is essentially going to be a 400 dollar underpowered and insanely over-priced tablet that runs games that will look like crap on your tv because the hardware inside of it isn't capable enough. Thanks nintendo.
PeteBull
Member
Switch2 has very miniscule amount of rt and tensor cores, think downclocked entry lvl laptop gpu.
Rtx 3050 8GB(so not even 4 or 6gigs versions but 8gig desktop version) has only 80 tensor and 20 rt cores:
Here how games on it look/play:
Remember this chip will have to be highly downclocked in handheld mode, and obviously its paired with much better cpu than what switch2 will have(hell its above ps5pr0 cpu too ;p ), but rough estimate of graphics lvl/performance is there, so ur normal nintendo player can somewhat estimate what this mashine could be capable of, at least in docked mode when it isnt powerdraw restrained.
Cyberpunkd
Member
It's going to be the same ones you are playing on your Switch, just with larger number at the end.
Cyberpunkd
Member
Or you could just leave that to the user - giving them the ability to adjust refresh rate, graphic details, etc. according to their needs? If only there was a portable device that is natively linked to the world's largest game storefront that does that...
daclynk
Member
So PS3 +++
existensmaximum
Member
This is 100% in line with my predictions and what I've been saying all along. Makes sense and is exactly what is to be expected from Nintendo given their history.
Emedan
Member
Thats not how you maximize performance. Games tailored for a specific hardware will always look and play better.Or you could just leave that to the user - giving them the ability to adjust refresh rate, graphic details, etc. according to their needs? If only there was a portable device that is natively linked to the world's largest game storefront that does that...
jm89
Member
Somewhere between Goku SSJ2 and Goku SSJ3.
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existensmaximum
Member
U
Unfortunately an art lost for all but Nintendo nowadays.
Cyberpunkd
Member
I have played Lego: Skywalker Saga on Switch - after this PoS I am never playing another Switch game again. Also - isn't Zelda struggling to hold 30FPS on Switch?
Radical_3d
Member
Two Krilins duck taped together.
hemo memo
You can't die before your death
My PC will be ready but I want the portability.
PeteBull
Member
We dont have official specs but at the bare minimum 5x og switch, on tflops alone, add to that modern features and we get clear picture of it being somewhere inbetween ps4 base and ps4pr0 in docked mode. Definitely well below serie S.
Edit: I didnt answer in power lvls coz krilins power lvl was so different over the span of the series
And since all of us know power lvls in DBZ are srs business, krilin right at the fight vs saibermen was 1770, so 5x that + modern features easily give Goku's base powerlvl from when he fought nappa:
Funny anecdote about this classic- in og japanese the number was (over 8000) but americans wanted it to be bigger for more dramatic effect
U can easily see/hear it if u compare japanese vs americam vs german version(german was direct tl from japanese, thats why it has no goku but songoku name just like japanese original for example)
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Cyberpunkd
Member
Dr.D00p
Member
Sure, they're fine if all you want is higher fidelity Mario & Zelda.
spons
Gold Member
One Piccolo dick.
Woopah
Member
I agree with you on the tech part, but I don't think its accurate to say that Nintendo doesn't care what MS or Sony do. Nintendo would much rather people play Fortnite/FIFA/Minecraft/DQ etc. on their devices that on Playstation.
It's a not magic cure, but it means "switch 2 will run ps4 ports at lower resolutions and framerates than said ps4 games" is not a true statement for what DF is saying.
What they are saying is that PS5 games running at 60fps will run at 30fps on Switch 2. Resolution would obviously be lower too.
That's not what they are saying at all.
GermanZepp
Member
The company that put this out on one of the most well known franchises in the world is cheaping out on hardware?
A ps4 portable power console is gonna be fine. Is disappointing but just enough.
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Nintendo has not really cared about third party since N64. They don't really need them, as evidenced by the past 3 gens minus Wii U.
Robb
Gold Member
Eh.. The vast majority of software sold on Switch are 3rd party software and Nintendo gets commission on each one.
They host dedicated Nintendo Directs for 3rd party software partners and indies.
They also change specification of their hardware to fit the needs of 3rd party partners.
They definitely need them and care about keeping them.
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Woopah
Member
They make hundreds of millions of dollars from third party games, and highlighted their importance to investors at the end of last year.
That's why the make deals with many different third party publishers.
They might not "need" all that extra profit, but they certainly care about having higher profits.