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[jtb]

i never said your vote doesn't count. i said it doesn't matter. there is a difference.

although your vote is about as significant as the many votes that are thrown away every election, so i suppose it's not too far fetched to say they don't count if you want to be pessimistic. you could even pretend your vote was tossed every election you voted in and still nothing would be different.

I understand your argument. It's a collective action dilemma: the cost of voting is higher than any potential benefit you will get from it. And the reason that benefit is so low is because your influence on the election is incredibly tiny, statistically negligent.

But that doesn't mean it doesn't "matter" or "count" or whatever verb you want to use. It just matters as a fraction of the electorate. The larger the electorate, the less your vote matters. That's democracy. That's the whole point of democracy. That's why local races are even more important to vote in, because you take up a larger fraction of that vote (and those issues impact you more immediately). So yes: your vote matters an incredibly tiny amount. But it still matters.

 

[John Dunbar]

You do realize that these are completely contradictory statements right? If people don't vote as individuals, what good does it do to get 500 like minded people who say they're going to vote one way or the other, but ultimately don't vote at all?

they're really not. all i'm saying it's a numbers game. if you want to make a difference you have to convince an enormous number of people to vote for your desired outcome, but on the day of the election you might as well stay home.

 

[Affeinvasion]

Where the heck do you live? I live in Chicago. I would love for some of these recent changes to be put up on the ballot for a vote. Unfortunately Rahm is going to do whatever the fuck Rahm wants to do.

Did you look at the Illinois ballot this year? There are two votes on constitutional amendments and three referendums.

 

[Piano]

Also noteworthy, a recent Princeton study found that the USA is an oligarchy, not a representative democracy.

Such a finding further dilutes the "importance" of casting a vote.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/21/americas-oligarchy-not-democracy-or-republic-unive/

What does this have to do with my vote on local referendums?

 

[SolidSnakesMyStepDad]

"Politics don't affect me so I don't care about voting."

Do people actually say this?

 

[Phoenix]

I think you have every right to complain if you didn't vote, as you're not responsible for hiring any of the moronic puppets that work in Washington.

You are just as responsible. Choosing not to vote is a vote for whatever happens.

 

[duderon]

Local elections also have far greater impact on individuals and your vote has exponentially more influence there. So the "my vote doesn't count" angle is even less relevant when applied there.

 

[Kazerei]

It's one thing to feel that your vote is insignificant -- a lot of people feel that way -- but it's another thing to think that the election process is meaningless, we don't actually have a choice because corporations control everything herp derp.

 

[Ultima_5]

What does this have to do with my vote on local referendums?

seriously. regardless, who gives a shit what it's called. It's what we have and being melancholy isn't going to make it better

Do people actually say this?

i remember alot of people in high school said this to me when I was excited about being able to vote for the first time

 

[Cat]

I live in Texas and have been following politics more closely as of late. I have often had a passing interest but had trouble expressing myself because things tend to get pretty heated, and I have some very strong feelings on certain issues.

This year leading up to this election, I've read about fights within this state on education, reproductive rights, and voter ID. I know exactly where I stand in all of this but never voted outside of presidential elections until this year because what's said but often overlooked is this: you can make the biggest difference on a local level. State is above local, but it is still going to have a more direct impact on me and my family.

Not only that, but it doesn't start and end with your vote unless you decide to take that path. Voting is not the most you can do - it is the least. There are a number of organizations out there fighting hard for our rights. You can join them or give them money. People have changed this country together, not just with their votes, but with united goals.

 

[out0v0rder]

maybe its just coincidence, but everytime i vote i get a jury summons like 2 weeks later.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

No reason to call me stupid because you don't like that I don't vote. Also, believe it or not, I don't complain about "public policy" for the fact that I don't vote. Who am I to complain? If policy issues affected me to a point that it bothered me, I'd do some research and possibly vote. However, that hasn't happened. It's not even being on a high horse or anything. I don't have a interest in politics so I don't follow politics so why vote just for the sake of it?

I don't think you *are* stupid. I think your position on voting is stupid, though.

I don't believe that you have never complained about something that has affected you as a direct result of public policy, whether that be high taxes, no public transportation, lack of insurance, roads in poor condition, etc. Politics are everything around you. Society is politics. Unless you live all alone in the middle of nowhere on land controlled by no one, then you can't say you don't care about politics. You may not realize it, but it's just untrue, which is why I call it stupid.

 

[thespot84]

What does this have to do with my vote on local referendums?

the beverage industry spending millions trying to defeat a drink tax in San Francisco and Berkeley could be a shining example...

 

[Champagne]

OP, there is no such thing as not voting.

If you are bored and disgusted by politics and don't bother to vote, you are in effect voting for the entrenched Establishments of the two major parties, who please rest assured are not dumb, and who are keenly aware that it is in their interests to keep you disgusted and bored and cynical and to give you every possible reason to stay at home doing one-hitters and watching MTV on primary day. By all means stay home if you want, but don't bullshit yourself that you're not voting. In reality, there is no such thing as not voting: you either vote by voting, or you vote by staying home and tacitly doubling the value of some Diehard's vote.
-David Foster Wallace

 

[SolidSnakesMyStepDad]

I think you have every right to complain if you didn't vote, as you're not responsible for hiring any of the moronic puppets that work in Washington.

No you don't. You should be responsible for sending the least retarded person there and you don't choose to do that so you can not complain.

 

[BertramCooper]

they're really not. all i'm saying it's a numbers game. if you want to make a difference you have to convince an enormous number of people to vote for your desired outcome, but on the day of the election you might as well stay home.

Well, do you?

Presumably as a person with opinions there are things you'd like to change. If you believe your individual vote is statistically meaningless but think that widespread efforts to get others to vote in agreement with your aims is effective, do you make any attempt at doing the latter?

 

[poros1ty]

It's true, there isn't much of a difference between democrat and republican. The problem is that the US has a two party system, which makes it nearly impossible for anyone else to run let alone win. Until there is significant election reform, it is all pretty pointless.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

I wont vote until someone runs on a partiless platform and vows to make abolishing party systems a primary leg of their efforts while in office.

 

[brotherbean]

Wait whats happening on facebook? People are patting themselves on the back for voting?

OMG it's awful. Obviously totally dependent on your friends list but I think every other status update has been some self-congratulatory nonsense about voting and why you should too.

 

[Mesoian]

they're really not. all i'm saying it's a numbers game. if you want to make a difference you have to convince an enormous number of people to vote for your desired outcome, but on the day of the election you might as well stay home.

THOSE ARE TWO COMPLETELY CONTRADICTORY STATEMENTS! Yeah, convince a bunch of people to vote your way, but if on the day of election, everyone goes "awww fuck it," how does that befit the vote?

You are being silly.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

What? princeton did a STUDY. It means they OBSERVED that the country has the characteristics of an oligarchy. Only politicians DECIDE what we are without empirical evidence...

Yes. Princeton did a study in which they observed characteristics. That's the proper thing to say.

A lot better than just dropping it in this thread as evidence that the country actually *is* an overt Oligarchy and using that as some kind of justification to not vote or care about voting, which is exactly what the guy who posted it did.

 

[John Dunbar]

Well, do you?

Presumably as a person with opinions there are things you'd like to change. If you believe your individual vote is statistically meaningless but think that widespread efforts to get others to vote in agreement with your aims is effective, do you make any attempt at doing the latter?

nope, which brings me back to the very first post i made in the thread quoting you: the man already won. at this point only a violent revolution will do.

 

[clav]

OMG it's awful.

You should quit Facebook. Clearly, you don't enjoy using it.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

the beverage industry spending millions trying to defeat a drink tax in San Francisco and Berkeley could be a shining example...

Like I said earlier: no shit that organized groups with lots of resources are going to act in their own interests.

 

[SolidSnakesMyStepDad]

OP, there is no such thing as not voting.

I love David Foster Wallace!

OMG it's awful. Obviously totally dependent on your friends list but I think every other status update has been some self-congratulatory nonsense about voting and why you should too.

That sounds pretty hilarious! I am gonna need to log in to facebook for the first time in a while just to check this out.

 

[Piano]

the beverage industry spending millions trying to defeat a drink tax in San Francisco and Berkeley could be a shining example...

Luckily the referendum a local 1 cent sales tax to support improvements to the urban area wasn't a hotbed of corporate activity trying to sway me and it'll affect me quite a bit.

Neither was anything, really, since I don't watch TV.

Err, I mean, down with the oligarchy!

 

[John Dunbar]

THOSE ARE TWO COMPLETELY CONTRADICTORY STATEMENTS! Yeah, convince a bunch of people to vote your way, but if on the day of election, everyone goes "awww fuck it," how does that befit the vote?

You are being silly.

obviously if you were out to convince people to vote one way, you wouldn't tell them you yourself aren't going to bother. at least that probably wouldn't be the best way to convince them.

 

[Earthstrike]

Also noteworthy, a recent Princeton study found that the USA is an oligarchy, not a representative democracy.

Such a finding further dilutes the "importance" of casting a vote.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/21/americas-oligarchy-not-democracy-or-republic-unive/

Funny you should point that out, considering another member pointed out in this very thread that votes are much more likely to be cast by the richer portions of society. I wonder if there's any relationship between what demographic groups vote and the outcomes of elections?

 

[KingGondo]

It's true, there isn't much of a difference between democrat and republican. The problem is that the US has a two party system, which makes it nearly impossible for anyone else to run let alone win. Until there is significant election reform, it is all pretty pointless.

This is incredibly naive.

 

[Arthr2ShdsJcksn]

Lmao, this totally. I was about to ask how old the OP was. I distinctly remember going through this phase exactly when I was in middle school. You grow past it pretty quick though.

I went through a similar phase for about a year after high school (1996-7ish). I am embarrassed that I ever was so stupid, and this thread has opened that old wound.

 

[Malreyn]

The big problem is that its not a "national holiday" so people have to choose between working and voting. You can argue "well people can do it before or after work" but some places you have to stand in line for hours and its not worth it.

 

[Rockandrollclown]

Where the heck do you live? I live in Chicago. I would love for some of these recent changes to be put up on the ballot for a vote. Unfortunately Rahm is going to do whatever the fuck Rahm wants to do.

Is there not a single issue on your ballot not related to electing a politician? When I go to vote there's typically 5-10 issues that have nothing to do with electing people. Ranging from allowing gays to marry, to smoking bans, to where my taxes go in the form of school levies. I'm just saying even if you see both sides as being equal, there are other issues at hand. Issues that can have a net positive or negative effect on your community.

 

[bennywhatever]

Does no one on here care about local/county elections? Where I live, it's actually a pretty big deal and you end up personally knowing at least 1 or 2 people on the ballot. There are a ton of local positions up right now here. Heck, one of the guys running for sheriff was drinking coffee at my polling place!

These local people aren't sleezy politicians. They're just regular citizens trying to make a difference in their community, and midterm elections are the time to do it.

 

[Ponn]

It's one thing to feel that your vote is insignificant -- a lot of people feel that way -- but it's another thing to think that the election process is meaningless, we don't actually have a choice because corporations control everything herp derp.

I would blame the broken ass two party system more than anything. If you want proof just follow the timeline of the elections here in Florida including Charlie Crist.

 

[snarge]

Between lobbies and gerrymandering, I don't find it shocking that people in the US are pessimistic about voting.

 

[Averon]

"Bu bu bu I'm so smart!! All of them are corrupt!! So, not voting doesn't matter!"

Sounds like the OP is trying to rationalize his/her laziness.

The American people deserve the government they vote in (or not vote in). I have no sympathy for people bitching and whining about how shitty Washington is yet refuse to do the very basic, least thing they can do to help change it for the better.

 

[thespot84]

This guy votes. Don't you want to be cool like this guy?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

The big problem is that its not a "national holiday" so people have to choose between working and voting. You can argue "well people can do it before or after work" but some places you have to stand in line for hours and its not worth it.

In most cases, like over 99%, this hasn't been a good excuse in the US for some time. There are absentee ballots and early voting programs that are pathetically easy to take part in so you don't have to lose a day of work, but maybe losing an hour or two of personal time is the issue...which makes it more of a laziness thing than anything else.

 

[Mineshaft_Gap]

Am I the only one who chooses not to boat? Jet ski, yacht, luxury cruise. Canoe, paddle boat, aircraft carrier. It's all the same. You're basically just driving except instead of being on land you're in the water and instead of wheels you're using propellers.

I feel like I'm the only one who sees this for what it is. Everyone else gets so excited for boating but I'm like, nah dude. It's like driving in a car.

 

[njean777]

I wanted to vote today but missed the registration deadline (not going to happen again for president), but I would just end up writing in a socialist candidate or communist both of which were not running in my states governor position, so yeah it wouldn't have mattered. So in the end I don't think my vote would matter much. This capitalistic society isn't what I want to see anymore.

 

[Scoot2005]

I'm just like you.

 

[jtb]

In most cases, like over 99%, this hasn't been a good excuse in the US. There are absentee ballots and early voting programs that are pathetically easy to take part in so you don't have to lose a day of work, but maybe losing an hour or two of personal time is the issue...which makes it more of a laziness thing than anything else.

Just because people are lazy doesn't mean we shouldn't encourage them to vote.

 

[SolidSnakesMyStepDad]

This guy votes. Don't you want to be cool like this guy?

Which one? I see two cool guys and an awesome lady.

 

[Affeinvasion]

It's true, there isn't much of a difference between democrat and republican. The problem is that the US has a two party system, which makes it nearly impossible for anyone else to run let alone win. Until there is significant election reform, it is all pretty pointless.

This is only possibly true on the federal level. On the state and especially local level there is a huge amount of leeway in how representatives vote and in who can run and be elected.

 

[Borgnine]

The big problem is that its not a "national holiday" so people have to choose between working and voting. You can argue "well people can do it before or after work" but some places you have to stand in line for hours and its not worth it.

OP doesn't have a job, because he's too young. Because the oligarchical Republidems outlawed child labor.

 

[Saganator]

If your apathy towards voting is because of money and corporations taking over the government, then you're not doing yourself or your country any favors by not voting. I use to only vote for 3rd parties, didn't think my vote mattered anyway. Then Citizens United happened, that pretty much drew a line in the sand for me. There was no way I could support any politician who thought corporations were people and money = speech. Generally speaking, Dems have been against Citizens United, but have been forced to take advantage of it to not get slaughtered by the GOP. Republicans have largely embraced the Citizens United decision, echoed by Mitt Romney's infamous quote, "Corporations are people too, my friend." Around the same time frame we had quacks like Sarah Palin on TV claiming our founding fathers intended the US to be a Christian nation, trying to rewrite history. I also learned who the Koch brothers were and what they were doing. That was when I decided I just could not ever support Republicans, and I felt the need to pick a side that actually has a chance to defeat them. I realized the importance of the SCOTUS, as well as my local government. I couldn't just sit back and let this very important game go on with out doing my (very little) part.

 

[adj_noun]

This guy votes. Don't you want to be cool like this guy?

Took me a second to catch it.

 

[Piggus]

Oh good, the lazy, stupid-ass "they're all the same!" argument. Haven't heard that one before!

To answer your question, no, you are not the only person who chooses to be ignorant and uneducated about candidates and issues facing the country or your community. Refusing to vote because you're too lazy to do any damn research is the same thing as voting against your own interests. So you're not really helping anyone, including yourself.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I may be in the minority, but I think you shouldn't complain if you didn't vote.

Oh good, the lazy, stupid-ass "they're all the same!" argument.

He ain't lazy, he's astute.

 

[Pickman]

Which one? I see two cool guys and an awesome lady.

One up front is Mitch McConnell, the potential senate majority leader depending how today's voting goes. Depending on how you lean, you might consider him a true scumbag.