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[CS Lurker]

Why would they do that when Quest 3 is better supported on PC?

For a number of reasons:

- OLED screen;
- silly hate for Meta;
- no streaming compression;
- more comfortable out-of-the-box
- expectation that PSVR 2 features (eye tracking, HDR) will be supported in the near future.

I can understand not liking the compression (and the performance hit for streaming), but trading pancake lenses for direct DisplayPort isn't worth, as the lenses sony used diminish the advantage for the lossless image. Also, I believe OLED if overrated to some degree.

I'm already seeing people on reddit that bought the HMD exclusively to use it on PC regretting their purchase. Well, they can't say they weren't warned.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

What happened to all the other VR headsets?

Is PSVR2 the better option?

There are no mainstream options outside of Quest and PSVR 2. And no headset on the market is anywhere near PSVR 2 displays for the price, especially on sale.

 

[onQ123]

For a number of reasons:

- OLED screen;
- silly hate for Meta;
- no streaming compression;
- more comfortable out-of-the-box
- expectation that PSVR 2 features (eye tracking, HDR) will be supported in the near future.

I can understand not liking the compression (and the performance hit for streaming), but trading pancake lenses for direct DisplayPort isn't worth, as the lenses sony used diminish the advantage for the lossless image. Also, I believe OLED if overrated to some degree.

I'm already seeing people on reddit that bought the HMD exclusively to use it on PC regretting their purchase. Well, they can't say they weren't warned.

I understand already owning a console accessory then using it on PC but to pay $349 for a PS5 accessory to use exclusively on PC is a little crazy unless it has better features than what's available for PC or if it was a lot cheaper than the other options.

 

[onQ123]

There are no mainstream options outside of Quest and PSVR 2. And no headset on the market is anywhere near PSVR 2 displays for the price, especially on sale.

Ok that explains it

 

[Codes 208]

We sold all of our digital only ps5’s day one of black friday (we had about 25 of them.)
The physical ones we still have about 8 left (and 3 pros, one of which has my name on it come thursday lol) Price was definitley a factor, some people didnt want to shell out the extra $50 for the physical version ($375 vs $425)

We had the same amount of the switch bundles and we sold the last of them today and we have two of our series x’s left (we only got about a dozen of them in, half physical, half the white digital only version) and we only sold a handful of the S’s

Didnt sell a single psvr though. We did however sell about a dozen of the meta 3S

 

[Robb]

What’s holding Xbox back? Lack of exclusives, weaker hardware perception, or marketing issues?

 

[Fess]

Xbox is very dead at this point. There's nothing that can pull it out of the mess it's currently in.


MS should cut the life support and move on to whatever new plans they have that involve a post-console future.

They’re stuck in limbo while finalizing their next generation product. Whatever that may be. Can’t do much else at this point except maybe show a tease video at TGA or get that Xbox launcher thing for all devices working properly so you can buy games everywhere etc.

Their planning has been bad, there is no excitement for the future. Should’ve had a mid generation update last year. Original Series 2020-Series Pro 2023-Series 2 2026- … Something like that.

 

[Topher]

They’re stuck in limbo while finalizing their next generation product. Whatever that may be. Can’t do much else at this point except maybe show a tease video at TGA or get that Xbox launcher thing for all devices working properly so you can buy games everywhere etc.

Their planning has been bad, there is no excitement for the future. Should’ve had a mid generation update last year. Original Series 2020-Series Pro 2023-Series 2 2026- … Something like that.

Yep. Xbox has moved past losing this generation and is now in a worse position by virtue of simply being irrelevant.

 

[Codes 208]

Self sabotage at its finest

 

[CS Lurker]

I understand already owning a console accessory then using it on PC but to pay $349 for a PS5 accessory to use expensively on PC is a little crazy unless it has better features than what's available for PC or if it was a lot cheaper than the other options.

I told you... if you say "LCD" that's enough for some people to say "absolutely not!" lol
Like I said, I think oled is overrated to some degree. I obviously don't like the gray-ish black of the LCD, but oled also has downsides when used for VR. And, of course, the hate for meta can not be underestimated lol

But VR can be crazy. What seems unusable for some can be great for others. I won't buy a new headset if it doesn't have pancake lenses or better, but others simply don't care. Each person has their own experience with VR; it is something very personal and what works for you may not work for me.

 

[Fess]

Yep. Xbox has moved past losing this generation and is now in a worse position by virtue of simply being irrelevant.

It’s the software planning as well, The Coalition did that test run and then many of their studios swapped to UE5 and then everything seemingly got delayed. The only games we’ve seen use in-house engines. The whole generation will be over and they won’t even have released small studio State of Decay 3 shown at the Series reveal, no Gears because E-Day is likely a next gen launch. Id has DOOM coming and Playground has Fable and Forza Horizon 6 using in-house engines but it’s all late generation releases when the console is already dead, and DOOM is multiplat and Fable and FH6 could be that as well.

For us PC gamers things has been better though. Everything day 1 and all Sony games are there or coming as well. MS should just focus on that and drop the console line and aggressively push for living room PC gaming instead, that’s where everything is now, except Nintendo.

 

[AlphaMale]

I got me a PSVR2 and GT7!!
(now I just need a steering wheel and chair)

 

[Topher]

It’s the software planning as well, The Coalition did that test run and then many of their studios swapped to UE5 and then everything seemingly got delayed. The only games we’ve seen use in-house engines. The whole generation will be over and they won’t even have released small studio State of Decay 3 shown at the Series reveal, no Gears because E-Day is likely a next gen launch. Id has DOOM coming and Playground has Fable and Forza Horizon 6 using in-house engines but it’s all late generation releases when the console is already dead, and DOOM is multiplat and Fable and FH6 could be that as well.

For us PC gamers things has been better though. Everything day 1 and all Sony games are there or coming as well. MS should just focus on that and drop the console line and aggressively push for living room PC gaming instead, that’s where everything is now, except Nintendo.

Absolutely. Take all that effort into developing hardware and create a console-like experience from within Windows. Let OEMs sort out the hardware. Better late than never to figure out how to accomplish a "Big Picture" mode like Valve did 12 years ago. Throw in an Xbox mode for legacy games and Xbox is already more interesting than anything they have done since 360, imo.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

It’s the software planning as well, The Coalition did that test run and then many of their studios swapped to UE5 and then everything seemingly got delayed. The only games we’ve seen use in-house engines. The whole generation will be over and they won’t even have released small studio State of Decay 3 shown at the Series reveal, no Gears because E-Day is likely a next gen launch. Id has DOOM coming and Playground has Fable and Forza Horizon 6 using in-house engines but it’s all late generation releases when the console is already dead, and DOOM is multiplat and Fable and FH6 could be that as well.

For us PC gamers things has been better though. Everything day 1 and all Sony games are there or coming as well. MS should just focus on that and drop the console line and aggressively push for living room PC gaming instead, that’s where everything is now, except Nintendo.

As someone who has had a living room PC for gaming over 15 years now, living room PC will never be anything more than a tiny niche like Linux on the desktop

 

[ikbalCO]

What’s holding Xbox back?

xbox

 

[SweetTooth]

That's an indicator but shouldn't be conclusive. I believe Switch sales in NA will surprise everyone.

 

[Ozriel]

Absolutely. Take all that effort into developing hardware and create a console-like experience from within Windows. Let OEMs sort out the hardware. Better late than never to figure out how to accomplish a "Big Picture" mode like Valve did 12 years ago. Throw in an Xbox mode for legacy games and Xbox is already more interesting than anything they have done since 360, imo.

This gives up subscription revenue from online gaming, royalties from third party games and most people will still just gravitate to Steam and CD Keys for cheaper games.

Significant downside risk.

It’s the software planning as well, The Coalition did that test run and then many of their studios swapped to UE5 and then everything seemingly got delayed. The only games we’ve seen use in-house engines. The whole generation will be over and they won’t even have released small studio State of Decay 3 shown at the Series reveal, no Gears because E-Day is likely a next gen launch. Id has DOOM coming and Playground has Fable and Forza Horizon 6 using in-house engines but it’s all late generation releases when the console is already dead, and DOOM is multiplat and Fable and FH6 could be that as well.

I think you’re significantly overstating the impact of a transition to UE5.

 

[Skifi28]

You can't make a safe comparison from physical sales. We all know like 80% of Xbox owners are full digital, so they just downloaded their series S/X.

 

[jm89]

We could be seeing one of the worst Xbox holiday seasons in a long time.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Props to Sony for actually having some black friday sales.

Xbox....what is you doing!

 

[Fess]

Absolutely. Take all that effort into developing hardware and create a console-like experience from within Windows. Let OEMs sort out the hardware. Better late than never to figure out how to accomplish a "Big Picture" mode like Valve did 12 years ago. Throw in an Xbox mode for legacy games and Xbox is already more interesting than anything they have done since 360, imo.

You know what, that’s perfection. Write that to Phil on X or something.

But knowing Microsoft they’ll talk a lot but won’t deliver. The biggest and wealthiest company and they work in a snail pace.

Remember the cloud streaming talk? They were up there boasting about their streaming when Stadia was about to be released. Stadia came, was better than xcloud, closed, and Sony was worse but improved and got better than xcloud, Geforce Now is so far ahead now that it’s funny, and as far as I know xcloud is still in beta…
MS:
Everybody else:

Valve will likely have an OEM living room gaming PC Steam OS lineup out before MS figure out how to get a big screen mode right in Windows.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Props to Sony for actually having some black friday sales.

Xbox....what is you doing!

Xbox is doing what they have been doing for a long time.
What we see now is the result of their incompetence since mid X360-gen.

Only morons kept thinking Xbox was going to be fine post-X360.

 

[ElFenomeno]

Props to Sony for actually having some black friday sales.

Xbox....what is you doing!

No idea. There's no stock. I would buy one for BC but there's no stock at Amazon Germany or other major retailers in my country. EU.

 

[SJRB]

 

[DenchDeckard]

No idea. There's no stock. I would buy one for BC but there's no stock at Amazon Germany or other major retailers in my country. EU.

It's wild. They've completely given up.

 

[AW_CL]

Circana USA predictions for November

November 2024 Circana (U.S. Hardware) Predictions - Closes Monday, December 16

NEW RULES + EXPLANATION Because Michael Pachter of Wedbush Securities decided to stop subscribing to NPD last year, access to retail NPD appears to have been massively limited. Whether that's due to firms getting NPD through Pachter or agreeing with him that NPD data is worthless without digital...

www.installbaseforum.com

 

[kazuyamishima]

That's an indicator but shouldn't be conclusive. I believe Switch sales in NA will surprise everyone.

Yeah.. nah.

The reduced price only lasted a few days, it seems that they put an specific number of consoles at that price (the discount seems to be coming from each retailer and not Nintendo).

it might be slightly up YoY, but not the big numbers that a very few are predicting.

 

[kaizenkko]

On Amazon Brazil:

PS5 Slim Digital: 20000
PS5 Slim Disk: 8000
PS5 Pro: 600

Note: in the last week PS5 was sold with a big discount in many retailers, in fact, Amazon had the biggest price among all retailers. Probably sold more in others retailers like Kabum, Shopee and Mercado Livre.

PS5 sell really well here in Brazil, despite the broken economy.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

Absolutely. Take all that effort into developing hardware and create a console-like experience from within Windows. Let OEMs sort out the hardware. Better late than never to figure out how to accomplish a "Big Picture" mode like Valve did 12 years ago. Throw in an Xbox mode for legacy games and Xbox is already more interesting than anything they have done since 360, imo.

Nothing will beat the console market for a while. PC has made some big shifts in the last few years but it’s still ways off from doing the numbers that you see on console and a lot of it has to do with the convenience factor, less piracy and higher prices. This is why games like GTA 6 is releasing on console first.

Xbox continues to struggle because they can’t compete in releasing a good flow of quality first party games. This has been their issue for 2 console generations now and things will not change if they can’t fix this problem with the next console.

The major issue they now face with game pass is how much the quality of their games has tanked since having first party releases in game pass day one. No one is talking about this because it’s so common for games to release in a bad state now but when you have a big game like Stalker 2 having to release a patch to fix over 600 issues, that’s a major problem IMO. Flight simulator and even Forza Motorsport both had bad launches also. You can’t win over customers doing crap like that over and over again.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Nothing will beat the console market for a while. PC has made some big shifts in the last few years but it’s still ways off from doing the numbers that you see on console and a lot of it has to do with the convenience factor, less piracy and higher prices. This is why games like GTA 6 is releasing on console first.

Xbox continues to struggle because they can’t compete in releasing a good flow of quality first party games. This has been their issue for 2 console generations now and things will not change if they can’t fix this problem with the next console.

The major issue they now face with game pass is how much the quality of their games has tanked since having first party releases in game pass day one. No one is talking about this because it’s so common for games to release in a bad state now but when you have a big game like Stalker 2 having to release a patch to fix over 600 issues, that’s a major problem IMO. Flight simulator and even Forza Motorsport both had bad launches also. You can’t win over customers doing crap like that over and over again.

You also failed to mention that next gen Xbox will have another thing playing against it: all of the games are now coming on PS5. Why would anyone even buy an Xbox when they can just buy a PS5 and play all Xbox catalog AND PS5 as well?

As we stand, all you need is a Switch and a Playstation console and you get access to almost the entire market. Why even buy an Xbox?

 

[Esparadrapo]

I'd understand if they halted production of the Series to deplete the massive inventory from when sales started falling off a cliff (which seemed to be the case with the massive fire sales a year ago) but selling this little and still run out of stock seems like waving a white flag.

Wouldn't it be hysterical if that tweet from Tom Warren was about Microsoft turning third and completely giving up on hardware?

 

[Moridianae]

I'm sure the Switch will end up with a better fare with other retailers involved that offered discounted bundles.

I know that Switch is way up there in age, but Nintendo saw enough gas left in the tank to go one more holiday season before Switch 2. I think they'll finish strong.

Pretty clear that Xbox has given up--to my knowledge, they didn't discount their systems at all anywhere.

 

[onQ123]

I'm sure the Switch will end up with a better fare with other retailers involved that offered discounted bundles.

I know that Switch is way up there in age, but Nintendo saw enough gas left in the tank to go one more holiday season before Switch 2. I think they'll finish strong.

Pretty clear that Xbox has given up--to my knowledge, they didn't discount their systems at all anywhere.

But they had discounts

 

[PatientGamer]

why is this a thread? Just a random analyst on X pulling numbers out of his arse.

 

[Moridianae]

But they had discounts

Then I stand corrected and it's fairly apparent that no one much sees a reason to own an Xbox.

Once other retailers are factored in, it might be some better. But if it isn't, they need to go full steam ahead with whatever their next strategy is.

 

[darrylgorn]

Playstation quantity and quality pretty much every year.

 

[Goalus]

That's fine, people can like inferior products.

There is no doubt about that, given the PS5 numbers.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

You also failed to mention that next gen Xbox will have another thing playing against it: all of the games are now coming on PS5. Why would anyone even buy an Xbox when they can just buy a PS5 and play all Xbox catalog AND PS5 as well?

As we stand, all you need is a Switch and a Playstation console and you get access to almost the entire market. Why even buy an Xbox?

Good point, but imo I don’t think they plan to continue porting most of their games to PlayStation. I think their strategy was to do it now to get sells and than change the strategy to go to a more timed exclusive or even permanent exclusive model for the next console.

The FTC has been on them and I think that’s one of the reasons they are willing to play nice with Sony for right now but this could change in the future because to your point I don’t see why anyone would buy a new Xbox if they could get the same games and more on PC or a PlayStation.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Xbox continues to struggle because they can’t compete in releasing a good flow of quality first party games. This has been their issue for 2 console generations now and things will not change if they can’t fix this problem with the next console.

Xbox is just associated it mediocrity now

It’s been that way for over a decade. One X and Series X we’re good consoles, but it all comes down to games.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Good point, but imo I don’t think they plan to continue porting most of their games to PlayStation. I think their strategy was to do it now to get sells and than change the strategy to go to a more timed exclusive or even permanent exclusive model for the next console.

The FTC has been on them and I think that’s one of the reasons they are willing to play nice with Sony for right now but this could change in the future because to your point I don’t see why anyone would buy a new Xbox if they could get the same games and more on PC or a PlayStation.

This makes no sense. The acquisition is complete and has been for a while. They only needed COD on Playstation not everything else, and specially not Bethesda games like Indiana Jones or Sea of Thieves which was released many years ago.

If they are releasing their games on Playstation now that they have 30M Xbox consoles out there, you think they won't be releasing their games on Playstation if they start a new gen and don't release their games on their own previous hardware?

There's no going back from this model they are now doing. They even have games like Sea of Thieves on Playstation...they were investing on buying more Playstation devkits earlier this year as well. This isn't some short-term strategy for them.

 

[gerth666]

Not really a random guy. Admin on Install Base forum. Pretty well known among those who follow the business side of the industry, I think.

Install Base Home Page

The latest charts, insights, graphs and predictions about the gaming industry and its trends

www.installbaseforum.com

I always remember years ago on this forum, welfare was the one of the main guys in the sales discussions.
He has always been a big fan of following that part of the industry

 

[ozz ex machina]

Quest 3 works way better as standalone MR-platform than a PCVR headsets. I use both and I vastly prefer PSVR2 as a PC accessory. I’d say both helmets got their kinks with Windows, but PSVR2 offers a clean video signal output and not fighting for CPU resources or relying on poor video transcoding. I don’t care about wireless too, AirLink was never reliable for me and most of my PCVR games are static cockpit simulators.

Did you try the virtual desktop app on quest 3? It's by far the most superior method for wireless to PC. If you have an optimal setup (essentially its own dedicated 5ghz router) it can in many ways be superior to the link cable.

What happened to all the other VR headsets?

Is PSVR2 the better option?

From my experience Quest 3 is the superior option - assuming you don't care about the limited experiences on playstation 5.

 

[King Dazzar]

Its quite something that Xbox both X & S combined are now competing with a PlayStation peripheral. And this is meant to be their best region? On the plus side they are still actually selling something.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Good point, but imo I don’t think they plan to continue porting most of their games to PlayStation. I think their strategy was to do it now to get sells and than change the strategy to go to a more timed exclusive or even permanent exclusive model for the next console.

The FTC has been on them and I think that’s one of the reasons they are willing to play nice with Sony for right now but this could change in the future because to your point I don’t see why anyone would buy a new Xbox if they could get the same games and more on PC or a PlayStation.

That’s like saying Sony will stop bringing games to PC (even though they are in a far better position to do so). It generates money and Xbox’s exclusive ship has sailed.

At most, they’ll continue to stagger releases, but their games will continue to come to other consoles.

 

[Ozriel]

The major issue they now face with game pass is how much the quality of their games has tanked since having first party releases in game pass day one. No one is talking about this because it’s so common for games to release in a bad state now but when you have a big game like Stalker 2 having to release a patch to fix over 600 issues, that’s a major problem IMO. Flight simulator and even Forza Motorsport both had bad launches also. You can’t win over customers doing crap like that over and over again.

Stalker 2 isn’t an Xbox first party game, and it’s silly to use traffic related launch issues with a game as an indicator of quality for Flight Sim 2024…especially now they’ve been resolved.

but yes, they need a steady stream of quality games to sell more people on a sub.

 

[rickybooby87]

Playstation quantity and quality pretty much every year. Xbox has pretty much never had that in a single year, ever.....and now their games are coming to PS5 too.

 

[Topher]

This gives up subscription revenue from online gaming, royalties from third party games and most people will still just gravitate to Steam and CD Keys for cheaper games.

Significant downside risk.

The risk of staying the same course that is going in a negative trajectory is also significant. Doesn't matter as Spencer has already confirmed more consoles are on the way. Hopefully they have a new strategy. This one isn't working.

 

[nial]

why is this a thread? Just a random analyst on X pulling numbers out of his arse.

No and no. Read the thread, at least.

 

[Unknown?]

why is this a thread? Just a random analyst on X pulling numbers out of his arse.

Actually he tends to overstate Xbox numbers so those might actually be off.

 

[skyfinch]

As expected, Xbox destroyed psvr 2.

4 year old console with old ass technology, beating out Sony's most advanced. Phil be carving up that turkey this year.