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[LCGeek]

As for high prices for Nvidia GPU's - the demand is high & so are their prices and clearly the market feels the price difference is justifiable. I don't get the complaints as companies in all sectors do exactly the same thing. Perhaps their should be a thread calling out Ferrari & Ducati for high priced vehicles

Most don't have a problem with the price as much as the perfmance that comes with it.

people act like nvidia is innoncent but forget shady things like the 970 memory issue or how most of their gpus are designed now so that overclocks don't give you so much.

You car analogy doesn't work I wasn't aware ducati or ferrari made gimped high priced models of what they are known for.

 

[ZOONAMI]

I've never owned an AMD GPU as I've always been extremely happy with Nvidia's hardware. I along with plenty others, seem to feel the same way. My brother in law uses AMD GPU's and is yet to have an issue with their hardware or software...

It isn't about picking a 'team' either; I doubt Nvidia or AMD give a fuck about me apart my wallet and user experience. I find for what I'm interested in, racing simulations, the better GPU's are Nvidia's based off user experience & feedback in community forums. The community rep for ISI (rFactor and rFactor 2) Tim Weatley recommended to buy Nvidia GPU's as they worked with ISI where as AMD didn't bother to assist them. Whose at fault here? It sure as hell isn't ISI or Nvidia.

As for high prices for Nvidia GPU's - the demand is high & so are their prices and clearly the market feels the price difference is justifiable. I don't get the complaints as companies in all sectors do exactly the same thing. Perhaps their should be a thread calling out Ferrari & Ducati for high priced vehicles

People do call out Ferrari, Ducati, Rolls Royce, Aston Martin, etc. That shit is ridiculous.

 

[SuperEpicGuy]

I don't get it, does nvidia have lower graphics share? I thought it was ahead? Nonetheless, amd doesn't have 3d vision and physx so I'll stick to nvidia for a while but this is weird.

edit: oh nvm, shitty ass graph. Why put gtx 960, 970 at the end of the amd graph? Amd has consoles though so it's got that going which is nice.

 

[Devildoll]

I don't get it, does nvidia have lower graphics share? I thought it was ahead? Nonetheless, amd doesn't have 3d vision and physx so I'll stick to nvidia for a while but this is weird.

Look at the graph again, Nvidia has 76% on the latest report, AMD has 24%.

The graphics card names on the graph just tells you exactly what launched at the time of each measurement.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Maybe get informed, I mean unless you are in the whole "I'm gonna talk out of my ass".

The rise and fall of AMD: How an underdog stuck it to Intel

Pretty in deep article about what the hell happend to AMD, disclaimer I used to be a huge AMD fan back in the early 2000's I followed that company closely.

Ultimately the fall of AMD can be summarized in a single sentence: They bought ATI and sold their fabs.

They should never have bought ATI, and it was the enormous debt they took on from the ATI acquisition combined with falling profits that forced them to sell all physical assets to remain solvent. That was the beginning of the end for them.

It's funny now to read that article and realize that if AMD has merged with Nvidia and let Jen-Hsun Huang run the combined company as he demanded, the situation would be completely the opposite of what it is now for AMD. Hindsight is always 20/20 but in business it's like an electron microscope and orders of magnitudes more painful.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Wait, this graph is saying AMD went from 38% to 24% market share in only two fiscal quarters? Q2 2014 - Q4 2014 a 14% drop?

I don't buy the accuracy of the 2014 numbers.

 

[charlequin]

No sympathy for AMD and their cripplingly awful Linux drivers.

Burn it down.

Oh god these things are a nightmare. At work I went from a system with a bottom-tier NVidia card (video crashes maybe three times in three years) to a new system with a bottom-tier AMD card (three video crashes a week, and a decent chance the system video just barfs every time I wake the screen.) I can't even imagine how they can be so awful.

There was a time when AMD had surpassed Intel too, during the darkest days of the Pentium 4 era. I had an Athlon 64 in those days, it's still the only AMD CPU I've ever owned.

Yeah I built a box in 2004 with an Athlon and ATI GPU, that thing was a beast. I don't think I've bought anything from them since.

Monopolies aren't a thing to celebrate. Monopolies are bad for consumers, and if AMD isn't doing well, it'll let NVIDIA become a monopoly.

True, although a company that doesn't produce competitive product offerings is pretty useless as competition, and that's the territory we're starting to get into.

 

[Justinh]

Oh god these things are a nightmare. At work I went from a system with a bottom-tier NVidia card (video crashes maybe three times in three years) to a new system with a bottom-tier AMD card (three video crashes a week, and a decent chance the system video just barfs every time I wake the screen.) I can't even imagine how they can be so awful.

huh...I was always under the impression that AMD drivers were better off on Linux than Nvidia. Or maybe it was that there weren't any Nvidia drivers, I can't remember. The only thing I remember clearly is that one Linus guy saying "Nvidia **** you"

 

[TJP]

You car analogy doesn't work I wasn't aware ducati or ferrari made gimped high priced models of what they are known for.

Oh really? You must have never seen the Ducati lineup of models then; you have a base model and several in-between models and the high dollar, R model with all the bells and whistles.

People do call out Ferrari, Ducati, Rolls Royce, Aston Martin, etc. That shit is ridiculous.

No it's not; the market believes a premium product comes with a premium price.

I simply do not understand the price issue; AMD still exist so buy their products offer great value for money. Nvidia don't have 100% market share and they, like everyone else, will always charge what the market will bear.

 

[LCGeek]

Oh really? You must have never seen the Ducati lineup of models then; you have a base model and several in-between models and the high dollar, R model with all the bells and whistles.

So basically the same issue people have with nvidia cards and their pricing.

The difference was generations of gpus ago nvidia really went after their market and the high end or mid range was excellent. The nvidia that made the xbox gpu gone, the one that let gamers smart enough to oc their stuff and get the same performance as some of their top end models gone. The same company who came up the GTX4XX lineup only to realize they gave to much away and went for rebrands on GTX500 gone.

People just don't want to see what's coming and it will be nasty if these two giants go down for different policies in the pursuit of profit. Nvidia loses competitors seeing what happened to 3dfx/AMD/ATI will be a dreamland in comparison.

 

[clav]

NVIDIA has the professional/academic/high-end CG sector pretty much on lockdown at this point. They've been the preferred vendor in those areas for well over a decade, especially when it comes to developer/driver support as well as the Linux space.

There's more than just gaming when it comes to GPU usage. Of course, their success in that market definitely helps in other areas of their business as well.

Thanks for supporting my claim with evidence.

Seems like at this point AMD is strictly a gaming card manufacturer with its chips in all three console game manufacturers and Windows computing markets.

None of its chips belong in professionals or academia unless you just need cheap computers for daily tasks or headless configurations. Even so, ARM is eating away that market.

At this point, I don't know where AMD's value lies outside of the cheap gamer mindset. Companies like working with AMD probably because they charge a low overhead vs. Nvidia (see Nvidia and OG Xbox).

The only thing valuable left is its patent portfolio.

 

[Pickles Spill]

Oh god these things are a nightmare. At work I went from a system with a bottom-tier NVidia card (video crashes maybe three times in three years) to a new system with a bottom-tier AMD card (three video crashes a week, and a decent chance the system video just barfs every time I wake the screen.) I can't even imagine how they can be so awful.



Yeah I built a box in 2004 with an Athlon and ATI GPU, that thing was a beast. I don't think I've bought anything from them since.



True, although a company that doesn't produce competitive product offerings is pretty useless as competition, and that's the territory we're starting to get into.

I wouldn't call them non-competitive products. Sure, they aren't as "slick" out of the box as NVIDIA offerings, but the 290x was a pretty bang-up card after it came with aftermarket coolers. In addition, the HBM memory on the 390x is the first of it's kind.
The problem territory we're getting into is that AMD will never be able to offer a competitive product because of the vicious cycle I mentioned earlier. They'll never have the chance to turn around, and that that wouldn't be good for competition either. I think that AMD providing marginally competitive products is better than providing no competitive products at all, which is what would happen if they keep spiraling down.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

huh...I was always under the impression that AMD drivers were better off on Linux than Nvidia. Or maybe it was that there weren't any Nvidia drivers, I can't remember. The only thing I remember clearly is that one Linus guy saying "Nvidia **** you"

It was Linus Torvalds and he was mad that Nvidia's Linux drivers were a binary blob that you couldn't look at the source code for or attempt to reverse engineer.

From Nvidia's perspective, drivers are a competitive advantage for them over AMD. Why would they ever release the source code for their drivers? I understand Linus loves opening up source code but it boggles my mind that Linus would think that Nvidia would ever consider doing that.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Oh really? You must have never seen the Ducati lineup of models then; you have a base model and several in-between models and the high dollar, R model with all the bells and whistles.

No it's not; the market believes a premium product comes with a premium price.

I simply do not understand the price issue; AMD still exist so buy their products offer great value for money. Nvidia don't have 100% market share and they, like everyone else, will always charge what the market will bear.

Spending 200k on a car is ridiculous. I understand that there's a market for it, but from an ethical standpoint, there shouldn't be.

 

[Mohasus]

Wait, were you the same person who sold me the XFX 7870 Core edition here on GAF when I was building my new rig? It's the same card I have right now, and it's serving me well. I never seen the thing go past 60ºC though...

I never had a 7870.

lol wut? Did you get a crappy reference cooler or something? My 7950 is currently OC'd to 1125 core and 1450 mem and it never goes over 75.

Yup, this model here:

I can't find any professional review about this specific model, only the double dissipation one, I wonder why.

A guy complained about the same thing on newegg:

"Pros: Runs games great and a affordable price

Cons: With games running the fan reaches 100% and the temp is at around 90c. Very poor thermal design, disapointed with xfx, they have always made great cards."

 

[Justinh]

It was Linus Torvalds and he was mad that Nvidia's Linux drivers were a binary blob that you couldn't look at the source code for or attempt to reverse engineer.

From Nvidia's perspective, drivers are a competitive advantage for them over AMD. Why would they ever release the source code for their drivers? I understand Linus loves opening up source code but it boggles my mind that Linus would think that Nvidia would ever consider doing that.

oh, thanks for setting me straight.

 

[ZOONAMI]

I never had a 7870.



Yup, this model here:

I can't find any professional review about this specific model, only the double dissipation one, I wonder why.

A guy complained about the same thing on newegg:

"Pros: Runs games great and a affordable price

Cons: With games running the fan reaches 100% and the temp is at around 90c. Very poor thermal design, disapointed with xfx, they have always made great cards."

I think it's pretty cool that XFX has gone from being pretty shitty to being pretty good.

 

[Boombox On]

huh...I was always under the impression that AMD drivers were better off on Linux than Nvidia.

No.
EDIT: Proper context.

 

[ZOONAMI]

No.

That's pretty nice for that 680

 

[Justinh]

No.

um, wow

 

[QueenOfThorns]

I like the AMD card that I have, but I probably won't be using AMD again when it's time to upgrade. Their software seems too sleazy to me. It has advertisements in it. Nvidia could do the same thing but I hope not.

But uh, as for the AMD Gaming Evolved software it seems similar enough to the Nvidia one, though less polished. The game DVR and recording works well with no performance hits. Only tried it with Dark Souls 2 so far. I have the R9 290. Only reason I got it is because it was cheaper than the equivalent Nvidia one. Either way I hope they can get a new software team to make it more similar to Nvidia's without the ads and stuff.

 

[ZOONAMI]

I like the AMD card that I have, but I probably won't be using AMD again when it's time to upgrade. Their software seems too sleazy to me. It has advertisements in it. Nvidia could do the same thing but I hope not.

But uh, as for the AMD Gaming Evolved software it seems similar enough to the Nvidia one, though less polished. The game DVR and recording works well with no performance hits. Only tried it with Dark Souls 2 so far. I have the R9 290. Only reason I got it is because it was cheaper than the equivalent Nvidia one. Either way I hope they can get a new software team to make it more similar to Nvidia's without the ads and stuff.

Check the web content box off = no ads

 

[XBP]

A few years ago I decided to buy a XFX 7950 core edition. Thing sounded like a jet and was 90+ºC constantly. I returned it in the same week.

I don't have any complaints about my nvidia gpus with blower fan.

If I remember correctly, XFX's had a pretty bad reputation a couple of years ago for their AMD card designs. They were rather famous for making overheating cards.

 

[TC McQueen]

Ultimately the fall of AMD can be summarized in a single sentence: They bought ATI and sold their fabs.

Really? Because I thought it was "AMD's CEO squanders money, ignores advice to hold off building fabs, and undercuts the company's long term viability".

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Really? Because I thought it was "AMD's CEO squanders money, ignores advice to hold off building fabs, and undercuts the company's long term viability".

If they hadn't spent the $4.5 billion on ATI, they would have been able to absorb the extra expense from building the fabs a year before they needed them. Sanders was actually right, AMD needed fabs. I mean look at how they did after they didn't have fabs.

 

[nobodyshero]

For my first real "gaming rig", my R9 290 has been treating me very well. I am slightly jealous of the dedicated game drivers Nvidia gets, but it's not a huge deal.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

I like NVIDIA cards.

 

[DirtyLarry]

My last AMD card was actually an ATi 9800 Pro. The drivers sucked. Just awful. I have never looked back.

 

[Renekton]

If they hadn't spent the $4.5 billion on ATI, they would have been able to absorb the extra expense from building the fabs a year before they needed them. Sanders was actually right, AMD needed fabs. I mean look at how they did after they didn't have fabs.

It can be argued that even without ATI, they were eventually going to dump the fabs thanks to the crazy-talented Intel Isreal destroying everthing with Core and M.

 

[Elman]

I see a lot of "just wait for the 390X" posts in this thread, but I don't see how a card with its rumored specs is going to sell for under $300 (let alone $400 - most estimates I have seen have been at least $500-600+). I'm excited to see how it performs (and how Nvidia reacts), but I sincerely doubt it's going to be the game changer that AMD needs.

The sub-$300 midrange GPU market is more relevant to the average builder/upgrader looking for 60 FPS 1080P gameplay. Nvidia doesn't own the market because of how many Titans it sells, it's because of their performance in the midrange to upper-midrange market, especially since the release of the 460.

If the rumors about most of the 300-series being rebrands are true, AMD is going to have tough time regardless of whether or not HBM means a $600+ 390x meets or beats the new Titan.

I think they'll be in better shape if AMD can pull off a 290 successor that's 60% faster for the same launch price, but we need to see similar gains across the entire 3xx lineup in order to win back market share.

 

[Muzicfreq]

No.

WOAH! Over 100fps with a 750ti on Linux with ultra?!
This alone could push gaming on SteamOS a thing. -_- but sadly for just gaming I rather not. Hope that DX12 is everything what it cracks up to be since that performance gain is massive compared to DX11 and the 750ti chugging at times.

 

[Renekton]

I see a lot of "just wait for the 390X" posts in this thread, but I don't see how a card with its rumored specs is going to sell for under $300 (let alone $400 - most estimates I have seen have been at least $500-600+). I'm excited to see how it performs (and how Nvidia reacts), but I sincerely doubt it's going to be the game changer that AMD needs.

The sub-$300 midrange GPU market is more relevant to the average builder/upgrader looking for 60 FPS 1080P gameplay. Nvidia doesn't own the market because of how many Titans it sells, it's because of their performance in the midrange to upper-midrange market, especially since the release of the 460.

290X is at trading blow range of 970 for your sub-300 pricing anyways, so rumor is they will simply refresh it Hawaii to 380X (possibly tuned specs and thermals).

While Titan X won't sell as much as 970s, having a flagship card is a huge customer mindshare advantage for either company.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

It can be argued that even without ATI, they were eventually going to dump the fabs thanks to the crazy-talented Intel Isreal destroying everthing with Core and M.

Maybe. We're getting far into "What-If" territory, but if AMD hadn't sold the fabs, maybe the design for Bulldozer would have been a lot better and AMD would have at least kept up through the Nehalem era.

 

[ZOONAMI]

290X is at trading blow range of 970 for your sub-300 pricing anyways, so rumor is they will simply refresh it Hawaii to 380X (possibly tuned specs and thermals).

While Titan X won't sell as much as 970s, having a flagship card is a huge customer mindshare advantage for either company.

A 290x trades blows with a 980 at 4k.

 

[Irobot82]

I never had a 7870.



Yup, this model here:

I can't find any professional review about this specific model, only the double dissipation one, I wonder why.

A guy complained about the same thing on newegg:

"Pros: Runs games great and a affordable price

Cons: With games running the fan reaches 100% and the temp is at around 90c. Very poor thermal design, disapointed with xfx, they have always made great cards."

Rule #1. Never buy a reference cooler.

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

True, although a company that doesn't produce competitive product offerings is pretty useless as competition, and that's the territory we're starting to get into.

My thoughts exactly. We saw the same argument for the Xbox One back when things were looking super bleak. Competitive competition is great. Competition for competition's sake is not.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

While Titan X won't sell as much as 970s, having a flagship card is a huge customer mindshare advantage for either company.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...dia-geforce-gtx-titan-x-is-unexpectedly-high/

Somebody out there is buying a lot of Titan X. I don't really know why when 980 Ti will likely drop when 390X does, but hey if you've got $1000 lying around and you want to game in 4K right now oh boy does Nvidia have a GPU for you.

 

[Devildoll]

Rule #1. Never buy a reference cooler.

The card pictured does not have a reference 7870 cooler though.

 

[Renekton]

http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...dia-geforce-gtx-titan-x-is-unexpectedly-high/

Somebody out there is buying a lot of Titan X. I don't really know why when 980 Ti will likely drop when 390X does, but hey if you've got $1000 lying around and you want to game in 4K right now oh boy does Nvidia have a GPU for you.

Wow. Could be a demographic allegory to the shrinking middle class and companies refocusing to the rich.

BMW is doing great these few years, and Apple decided the time is right to sell premium watches.

 

[old]

All of this talk about graphic cards has got me thinking about upgrading my 6950 2GB. I was even looking at prices on newegg. But I've got to restrain myself until Overwatch comes out to see if I need an upgrade. I'm mainly an e-sporter now and that's probably the most graphic intensive game I'll be playing.

Though it sounds like from you guys I should probably go Nvidia next time. I guess I'm going to contribute to the problem. I'll have to do my research and figure out which Nvidia card today is comparable to market point of my 6950 back in 2011, which if I remember correctly was upper mid-range or lower high-range; at the higher end of the sweetspot before the diminishing returns on power-per-dollar really kicks in.

 

[Elfforkusu]

No.
EDIT: Proper context.

Also, this doesn't include the AMD driver's random crashes and AMD arbitrarily discontinuing support for your 2 year old graphics card, leaving you unable to keep your OS up to date! or do keep it up to date, but without 3D graphics. Choose one!

 

[clav]

All of this talk about graphic cards has got me thinking about upgrading my 6950 2GB. I was even looking at prices on newegg. But I've got to restrain myself until Overwatch comes out to see if I need an upgrade. I'm mainly an e-sporter now and that's probably the most graphic intensive game I'll be playing.

Though it sounds like from you guys I should probably go Nvidia next time. I guess I'm going to contribute to the problem. I'll have to do my research and figure out which Nvidia card today is comparable to market point of my 6950 back in 2011, which if I remember correctly was upper mid-range or lower high-range; at the higher end of the sweetspot before the diminishing returns on power-per-dollar really kicks in.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

huh...I was always under the impression that AMD drivers were better off on Linux than Nvidia. Or maybe it was that there weren't any Nvidia drivers, I can't remember. The only thing I remember clearly is that one Linus guy saying "Nvidia **** you"

No way, NVIDIA has long had the edge in Linux and OpenGL, for at least a decade if I remember right. They've been the standard GPU in Linux workstations at ILM and Pixar as long as I can recall at the very least.

 

[Beautiful Ninja]

All of this talk about graphic cards has got me thinking about upgrading my 6950 2GB. I was even looking at prices on newegg. But I've got to restrain myself until Overwatch comes out to see if I need an upgrade. I'm mainly an e-sporter now and that's probably the most graphic intensive game I'll be playing.

Though it sounds like from you guys I should probably go Nvidia next time. I guess I'm going to contribute to the problem. I'll have to do my research and figure out which Nvidia card today is comparable to market point of my 6950 back in 2011, which if I remember correctly was upper mid-range or lower high-range; at the higher end of the sweetspot before the diminishing returns on power-per-dollar really kicks in.

Lower high-range sounds about right for the 6950 at launch. If you want a card in a similar performance and price bracket now compared to then, the answer is the GTX 970.

 

[Justinh]

They've been the standard GPU in Linux workstations at ILM and Pixar as long as I can recall at the very least.

Geez, I don't know man...
I'm going to have to try really hard next time if I want to be even more wrong, lol...

I don't know why I thought that. I remember the video, but that's something I saw after I had already thought that nvidia wasn't good for linux users.

 

[Quadraphonic]

Every time I've ventured into the ATI territory, every single fucking time, even after they got bought by AMD, it's been a driver nightmare.

I don't care if their cards are $200 less and 2x the speed, if the software running them is a fucking shitshow of bugs, glitches and crashes, they'll have to drink my anus juice before I go back to them again.

On personal machines and ones I've had to setup at work. AMD graphics are always a fucking pain in the ass to deal with.

 

[charlequin]

huh...I was always under the impression that AMD drivers were better off on Linux than Nvidia. Or maybe it was that there weren't any Nvidia drivers, I can't remember. The only thing I remember clearly is that one Linus guy saying "Nvidia **** you"

AMD develops an open-source driver in-house in addition to the proprietary one; NVidia just has the closed one. NVidia's proprietary driver is miles ahead of AMD's though.

From Nvidia's perspective, drivers are a competitive advantage for them over AMD. Why would they ever release the source code for their drivers? I understand Linus loves opening up source code but it boggles my mind that Linus would think that Nvidia would ever consider doing that.

The FOSS AMD driver doesn't give away all the performance secrets, it just makes it possible to use the card without completely reverse-engineering it. NVidia could do the same thing if they wanted to without losing any competitive advantage.

I wouldn't call them non-competitive products.

Right, I think we actually agree on this. I don't think AMD's current cards are non-competitive at all, but without something to adjust their trajectory they're gonna wind up there in a manner similar to how they blew it in the CPU market.

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

Um, a 290x is superior to a 970 and roughly equivalent to a 980. Cheaper than both, by half in the case of the 980. Part of the problem here are the gamers being brainwashed by nvidia's marketing.

"Brainwashed" by being provided with better drivers and software solutions

 

[Rur0ni]

Um, a 290x is superior to a 970 and roughly equivalent to a 980. Cheaper than both, by half in the case of the 980. Part of the problem here are the gamers being brainwashed by nvidia's marketing.

Go on.

 

[Decado]

No, you don't. Nobody that's had an AMD card in the last 3 or 4 years should have any complaints.

The fact that you're referring to them as "ATI" in 2015 tells me all I need to know about your current knowledge and experience with their products.

Then why does it seem like so many of the xxxx game performance threads inevitably have ppl claiming the game performs like shit on amd cards?

Glad I switched. My amd/ati cards have always been troublesome.