HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Third episode was interesting but by far the blandest.
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American Gods |OT| You Had Me At Bryan Fuller - Sundays on Starz
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
Holy shit I'd die lmao. My mom is the biggest prude ever.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
I thought Salim was either possessed or that the Ifrit turned him into a Jinn and then vanished in some sort of "Now I can move on, I'm finally free!" type deal. ¯\_(ツ
_/¯Ah, clever.
The erect ones are cgi. The full frontal shot of the Ifrit taking the towel off after he showered was real though, I think.
Peak Dick TV
I call the show American Dogs and I got real excited when the dog (wolf?) showed up at the end~
TwntyOneTwlv
Member
It definitely won't be this season but I'm really curious to see how (book details)
. That whole plot line gave off such a different vibe than the rest of the novel. It felt like a huge tonal shift.
the show handles the plot with the small town and the frozen lake and the old guy locking kids in the trunks of the cars
That part felt like the novellas about shadows gaiman has been writing in his short story collections. I loved it, but it did feel plucked out of another story.
I'm inclined to agree, seeing as how I had remembered it until now as part of an entirely different book.
I cannot tell you how wrong this comment feels to me. Strongly disagree.
Discotheque
Banned
Yeah Yeah it's popular to hate on snyder. But fuller does share visual sensibilities with him. There are moments in these shows that feel straight out of watchmen or 300
Gotta say I love how this show looks, and the somewhere in America segments are so good. But the main plot is boring the hell out of me. I didn't really like the way Hannibal was written either but the performances in that and visuals got me through it. Likely gonna be the case here too. Can't fuck with fuller as a showrunner but he does bring some great visual concepts for sure
Gotta say I love how this show looks, and the somewhere in America segments are so good. But the main plot is boring the hell out of me. I didn't really like the way Hannibal was written either but the performances in that and visuals got me through it. Likely gonna be the case here too. Can't fuck with fuller as a showrunner but he does bring some great visual concepts for sure
I'm really enjoying it. And the idea that the book has good pacing ignores basically every complaint made at the time of its release. In fact, I'm finding it kind of funny that the show is getting much the same response as the book did when it came out, It's always been derided as a meandering book with poor pacing at the expense of telling side stories and doing character pieces. Same goes for the complaints about being confused about what's going on. I re-read the book a couple of weeks ago, and as far as I've seen, the show has basically replicated all of its major issues. I didn't have a problem with them in the book, and don't in the show. Some people need the plot fed to them and some people need it all revealed now. Some people don't, and are enjoying the spectacle and side stories, trusting that the writers will get to the meat when they get to it. I'm fine with them taking their time and letting events and lore unfold slowly.
therealminime
Member
Zeyphersan
Banned
I'm in love with this show. I'm blown away by the quality. Good job Starz, you kept a subscriber
Agreed but how long do they expect people to wait before you give the audience something to hold on to? Shadow is not really a focus. It seems like we are peering into this other world we know nothing about as a viewer. Like I'm all for complex plots and delayed gratification but I still like to be entertained. So far I'm 3 hours invested and mostly it's been mediocre or comicaly weird. Giving the audience a hint of what's actually going on would add gravitas to what's seen on screen. I'm sure in time the show will reveal itself but that's IF it doesn't get cancelled because the audience has lost patience with it. Same thing almost happened to GoT and that show was better about pacing than this show is imo.
Well, there will be some reveal next episode, given the final scene of this one. Whether that will lead to the big plot reveal, I dunno. I generally think that people who don't enjoy the ride aren't going to enjoy the destination. If the individual episodes aren't doing it for you, it's unlikely the plot of the series is going to fix that. As for hints, there have been a bunch of those. But they've actual hints, not beating you about the head with them.
At a fundamental level, the show is going to keep holding back information from you, and it's going to keep intentionally obfuscating what is happening. That's not a bug, it's a feature of the story.
Leona Lewis
Banned
I'm personally thrilled that television as an artistic medium has evolved to the point that the notion of what constitutes an "episode" now transcends the basic expectation of propulsive plot progression.
There are a million shows out there that live or die on dangling a carrot on a stick. Is it so wrong that a show tries to make the journey just as sumptuous as the destination?
I'm hooked.
There are a million shows out there that live or die on dangling a carrot on a stick. Is it so wrong that a show tries to make the journey just as sumptuous as the destination?
I'm hooked.
Turin Turambar
Member
This show isn't for you. Light spoiler:
there isn't any big complex plot going on, there won't be payoff in that regard
If you don't enjoy seeing a depressing salesman meeting an Ifreet taxi driver or a woman dying and finding himself with a death god that transport her to a desert or a magical roof with a girl watching the sky for eternity so a cosmical bear won't rampage through the universe, the show isn't for you.
For me it's like watching a cool short movie collection with the theme of magical realism.
Turin Turambar
Member
This isn't a script heavy show. This is the opposite. Literally a bit more than half the episode were character pieces and side stories, and the part with the main characters was definitively slow.
From what I read in the thread, some people are confused with the side stories, they are expecting for them to be relevant to the main characters at some point and are struggling to see how it will happen or struggling to remember all the characters...
So I feel the need to give you very light spoilers. Not really spoilers, but some people are super sensitive.
They are just side stories, people. They aren't even that important for world-building reasons.
More_Badass
Member
Think of this show less as a straight scripted narrative and more of a travelogue. The macro-scale story of "Gods finding their place in America" is as crucial, if not more so, as the story of Shadow and Wednesday. The journey, the adventures and misadventures, the glimpses and stories of other cultures and their deities, is American Gods.
Consider that the show didn't open with Shadow. It opened with a Coming to America story
Consider that the show didn't open with Shadow. It opened with a Coming to America story
RoyaleDuke
Banned
And quite probably my favorite speech I have ever heard, ever in all of fiction.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Another good episode, but I'm confused...what happened with the guys during sex?
Did the god take over the salesman body? If so, why did he go back to driving a cab? Is he the opposite of Bilquis where instead of swallowing people up he takes over their bodies?
I'm loving these openings too, although this weeks wasn't as good as last weeks one. I don't know if they'll be able to match that one, but I hope we see Anansi again at some point.
Did the god take over the salesman body? If so, why did he go back to driving a cab? Is he the opposite of Bilquis where instead of swallowing people up he takes over their bodies?
I'm loving these openings too, although this weeks wasn't as good as last weeks one. I don't know if they'll be able to match that one, but I hope we see Anansi again at some point.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Nothing. They had an intimate night together, and then the Jinn took Salim's suit and left his taxi and clothes behind.
He essentially swapped identities with him. Salim now isn't working the shitty sales job, but is driving a cab.
The Jinn had a meeting with Wednesday in the last episode and he's wearing that same suit. So this romantic scene actually takes place before the Jinn met Wednesday.
FlutterPuffs
Member
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I really liked the third Zorya sister and her dreamlike scene with Shadow.
The god vignettes with Anubis and the Jinn/Ifrit were really well done.
Mad Sweeney starting to get fucked over is hilarious.
I wanna see more of this war that's brewing tho. The season's only eight episodes and it feels like we're only at the beginning.
The god vignettes with Anubis and the Jinn/Ifrit were really well done.
Mad Sweeney starting to get fucked over is hilarious.
I wanna see more of this war that's brewing tho. The season's only eight episodes and it feels like we're only at the beginning.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Yep. They switched bodies.
Woah...what!!!
I don't remember seeing that guy in episode 2. The fuck...
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
You probably do. It's when Shadow first gets to the diner to meet up with Mr. Wednesday, after seeing all the freaky shit at the store. He passes by a guy with glowing eyes, very briefly, glances at him, but then sits down.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Huh, that does ring a bell now that you mention it.
I think I'll rewatch the second episode anyway.
Moff
Member
I thought he looked familiar, niceYep. They switched bodies.
Praetorpwj
Member
I am enjoying the show but this episode only reinforced my opinion that this story could easily be tightly wrapped up in a 10 episode arch.
It is a fairly straightforward tale and although the quality is in the nuance I think planning a multi season arch is a mistake. Thus far there has been little to no 'new material'.
Spuck-uk
Banned
All the dongs are CGI and/or prosthetics.
I don't have it to hand but theres a great interview with the two actors about how they did that scene (Including the fact they literally painted them pitch black head to toe). They were both really happy not to be typecast as terrorists for once.
FWIW I'm loving the show so far, the sequence with Anubis was the most Neil Gaiman thing to ever exist, he does Death so well.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Yep. They switched bodies.
I'm surprised people missed this, or didn't pick up on the connection.
Prime crotch
Banned
OH THANK GOD
I mean... they should have just casted me instead of doing cgi dongs
Lord Frieza
Member
...Really?
Monocle
Member
I'll tell you why this is wrong and stupid: Zack Snyder's work is cold. He just doesn't understand how to convey warmth and humanity. American Gods feels downright earthy, almost primal, next to any of Snyder's recent stuff. You can tell American Gods was made with a writer's eye for the subtleties of life. Wednesday alone proves this point.
Snyder could never hope to pass as a Bryan Fuller. He operates on a creative plane of blunt broad-strokes story logic that sacrifices authentic emotion for big abstract attributes that he can convey visually. Snyder would make a splendid visual effects supervisor. He is a specialist. Leave the creative direction to people who have an affinity for the life of the mind, and the mundane details of human society. Like Fuller. Like Gaiman.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I knew he was in episode 2, I believe as Shadow is returning from the store/his encounter with Media, but I didn't recall the blue suit.
I think Snyder is limited in his talents even as far as visual effects go. I'm not that great at describing visual effects so great, so bear with me a little, but first of all, he tints the fuck out of the films he touches. The entirety of Man of Steel is blueish grey. Batman v Superman is bluish grey. Even the trailers for BvS show him not deviating from this. 300 was yellow-brown with red capes standing out. People complain about the lack of color of his films and while that's arguably an issue (thought it wouldn't fix the movies by a long shot), but I think the reason for it is that he doesn't have confidence in his ability to make an image look good if he has to use multiple colors in it. This is the first deviation from Fuller, who does lean on a color situationally if he feels it's appropriate (like the black and white color palette of the technoboy scene), but he just uses it as one technique he has out of many.
Secondly, Snyder isn't really abstract. I haven't seen Sucker Punch, which is apparently his trippiest movie, and correct me if I'm wrong, but while he does stylize the shit out of the women's fantasies, they're all concrete visualizations. That one girl is a samurai and they do fantastical, but comprehensible stuff. Fuller's visuals often have you wondering what your even looking at, or even when you understand what your seeing, what is it supposed to visualize. People complain about the Djinn scene being unclear, and perhaps there is merit to that, but I feel there is also merit in not telling your audience everything. I like wondering what exactly was it that Salim and the Djinn exchanged in their night of passion. Is it truly as simple as him taking Salim's suit and leaving him his clothes, or was there something more to it.
And like Monocle said, Fuller understands how these abstract visuals serve the story in a way that Snyder does not. There isn't a straight point of comparison that I can think of, but one close one is how Chernobog's visual design conveys an ancient evil to him, or atleast darkness. The blood the flows from his hammer. The sleazy, dirty look the actor has. He looks like he hasn't bathed in days. You can almost smell the cigarette smoke he has on him. Compare that to how Snyder conveys the monstrosity in Batman in BvS, he has a bat monster crawl out of his parents graves. None of the monstrosity is visually conveyed in Bruce himself. Even his armored suit, which should have looked like Batman at his most menacing (because he is at his most malicious at that point in the movie), is just an armored suit that was directly lifted from The Dark Knight Returns, even though in that story Bruce was a different kind of character there. And after Bruce's changed, that change should have been visualized in some way. For another example, compare how in Hannibal, Will starts to dress more like Hannibal the more he gives in to his own violent urges.
If you want to say that Snyder and Fuller share a commonality because they both have a taste for visuals, sure, but the comparison feels like saying Emily Bronte and Stephenie Meyer share a commonality because they both have a taste for romance dramas.
Secondly, Snyder isn't really abstract. I haven't seen Sucker Punch, which is apparently his trippiest movie, and correct me if I'm wrong, but while he does stylize the shit out of the women's fantasies, they're all concrete visualizations. That one girl is a samurai and they do fantastical, but comprehensible stuff. Fuller's visuals often have you wondering what your even looking at, or even when you understand what your seeing, what is it supposed to visualize. People complain about the Djinn scene being unclear, and perhaps there is merit to that, but I feel there is also merit in not telling your audience everything. I like wondering what exactly was it that Salim and the Djinn exchanged in their night of passion. Is it truly as simple as him taking Salim's suit and leaving him his clothes, or was there something more to it.
And like Monocle said, Fuller understands how these abstract visuals serve the story in a way that Snyder does not. There isn't a straight point of comparison that I can think of, but one close one is how Chernobog's visual design conveys an ancient evil to him, or atleast darkness. The blood the flows from his hammer. The sleazy, dirty look the actor has. He looks like he hasn't bathed in days. You can almost smell the cigarette smoke he has on him. Compare that to how Snyder conveys the monstrosity in Batman in BvS, he has a bat monster crawl out of his parents graves. None of the monstrosity is visually conveyed in Bruce himself. Even his armored suit, which should have looked like Batman at his most menacing (because he is at his most malicious at that point in the movie), is just an armored suit that was directly lifted from The Dark Knight Returns, even though in that story Bruce was a different kind of character there. And after Bruce's changed, that change should have been visualized in some way. For another example, compare how in Hannibal, Will starts to dress more like Hannibal the more he gives in to his own violent urges.
If you want to say that Snyder and Fuller share a commonality because they both have a taste for visuals, sure, but the comparison feels like saying Emily Bronte and Stephenie Meyer share a commonality because they both have a taste for romance dramas.
Well, according to him, he could have directed Batman being raped. That's probably as close as he'd get.
The Watchmen sex scene and its utter terribleness was what I was thinking of.
Discotheque
Banned
the viking scene and small moments like the Irish guy digging at the grave this week are very much reminiscent of moments in Snyder movies tbh. 100%. its a simplistic comparison but it stands out immediately to me.
as for "warmth and humanity"....attributed to this show?! you must be out of your mind man. Fuller shows tend to have cold dialogue, its something he seems well acquainted with at this point as his own stylized take on these tv shows. this one more than ever has felt so clinical. i'm often reminded of Pizzolato's (sp? lol) scripts for True Detective season 2 where all I could think is "WHO talks like this?"
it doesn't help that Shadow Moon has been a mannequin up to this point, I think they might have went a bit too stoic with this guy. some incredulity or wonder would be nice. oh well, overall Fuller picked the right property to indulge in his love for abstract and mad visuals.
the road trip scenes are a wash for me right now as much as I like Ian McShane and some other actors popping up here and there, but I am really liking the god anthology scenes. i honestly wouldn't even mind if the show just pushed for more of that, despite how disjointed it would then feel.
as for "warmth and humanity"....attributed to this show?! you must be out of your mind man. Fuller shows tend to have cold dialogue, its something he seems well acquainted with at this point as his own stylized take on these tv shows. this one more than ever has felt so clinical. i'm often reminded of Pizzolato's (sp? lol) scripts for True Detective season 2 where all I could think is "WHO talks like this?"
it doesn't help that Shadow Moon has been a mannequin up to this point, I think they might have went a bit too stoic with this guy. some incredulity or wonder would be nice. oh well, overall Fuller picked the right property to indulge in his love for abstract and mad visuals.
the road trip scenes are a wash for me right now as much as I like Ian McShane and some other actors popping up here and there, but I am really liking the god anthology scenes. i honestly wouldn't even mind if the show just pushed for more of that, despite how disjointed it would then feel.
Holy fuck, this is Fuller of Pushing Daisies and Dead Like Me? Why the fuck didn't I make that connection. (... Probably because I watched those shows at first airing, back when I didn't pay much attention to production.)
Honestly, this feels so awful in comparison to Dead Like Me and Pushing Daisies. Those shows had pace and build up with a dash of swagger and quirk - this is all swagger and quirk sans pace and build up.
Haven't watched Hannibal. Heard it starts a bit shit but gets great? Hopefully AmGods will do the same.
Nyehh. Half of the time AmGods was trying to convey warmth there was really attention-grabbing music over the top of it and weird editing with OTT cinematography - thus sucking all warmth there was out of it.
Also the mundane details of human society? Dafuq? The book captured that; the show doesn't. The show is like wild highlights from a really sexy psychedelic road trip. There's none of the boredom, the changing landscape, the stupid little stories and random normal people you meet on the road - all of which the book captures so perfectly.
Yes, Wednesday is great - indeed, elements of the show are great. And you know whose work is generally 'cold' with brilliant elements? Zack Snyder. There are things in Watchmen that Snyder totally got right - Rorscach's "being captured" scene and the Comedian, for instance. These moments felt 'warm'. But the whole thing was just pretty shit.
That last sentence is exactly how I feel about AmGods.
Again, I like the spectacle and there are things it gets right. I hope it picks up.
Handmaid's Tale is better tho.
(Although I'd be hesitant to say anything's as bad as Pizzolatto's scripts for TrueDet 2.)
(Shadow is still badly handled here - he's absolutely a 'mannequin' in the book, but that's the point, and in the abstract pages of a novel it's easy not to characterise him, like the Kid from Blood Meridian or Dhalgren. But in a TV show? Giving him a face, a voice, making him laugh and smile... it all just compromises what 'Shadow' was all about)
I didn't find the book hard to follow or obtuse. The narrative is a very easy read and it's smooth. For 90% of the book it's clear where Shadow is and what he's doing. The other 10% bits are a total mindfuck but they don't happen constantly, unlike in the show.
Like, the bit in the show when Shadow meets the Techno Boy: it feels like a complete non-sequitur. I can't remember what was right before it, but suddenly Shadow is just arbitrarily walking down an empty road. There's no sense of place or scene or narrative placing, so when weird shit happens it doesn't have a foundation of 'right, he's going from here to there, he's going to meet Wednesday, he's thinking about XYZ' etc.
The show just loses this heart of the journey so bad
Honestly, this feels so awful in comparison to Dead Like Me and Pushing Daisies. Those shows had pace and build up with a dash of swagger and quirk - this is all swagger and quirk sans pace and build up.
Haven't watched Hannibal. Heard it starts a bit shit but gets great? Hopefully AmGods will do the same.
Nyehh. Half of the time AmGods was trying to convey warmth there was really attention-grabbing music over the top of it and weird editing with OTT cinematography - thus sucking all warmth there was out of it.
Also the mundane details of human society? Dafuq? The book captured that; the show doesn't. The show is like wild highlights from a really sexy psychedelic road trip. There's none of the boredom, the changing landscape, the stupid little stories and random normal people you meet on the road - all of which the book captures so perfectly.
Yes, Wednesday is great - indeed, elements of the show are great. And you know whose work is generally 'cold' with brilliant elements? Zack Snyder. There are things in Watchmen that Snyder totally got right - Rorscach's "being captured" scene and the Comedian, for instance. These moments felt 'warm'. But the whole thing was just pretty shit.
That last sentence is exactly how I feel about AmGods.
Again, I like the spectacle and there are things it gets right. I hope it picks up.
Handmaid's Tale is better tho.
(Although I'd be hesitant to say anything's as bad as Pizzolatto's scripts for TrueDet 2.)
(Shadow is still badly handled here - he's absolutely a 'mannequin' in the book, but that's the point, and in the abstract pages of a novel it's easy not to characterise him, like the Kid from Blood Meridian or Dhalgren. But in a TV show? Giving him a face, a voice, making him laugh and smile... it all just compromises what 'Shadow' was all about)
I didn't find the book hard to follow or obtuse. The narrative is a very easy read and it's smooth. For 90% of the book it's clear where Shadow is and what he's doing. The other 10% bits are a total mindfuck but they don't happen constantly, unlike in the show.
Like, the bit in the show when Shadow meets the Techno Boy: it feels like a complete non-sequitur. I can't remember what was right before it, but suddenly Shadow is just arbitrarily walking down an empty road. There's no sense of place or scene or narrative placing, so when weird shit happens it doesn't have a foundation of 'right, he's going from here to there, he's going to meet Wednesday, he's thinking about XYZ' etc.
The show just loses this heart of the journey so bad
Discotheque
Banned
oh and it was pretty amazing that we got a same-sex love scene between two Arab actors in a tv series, on the backbone of an islamic figure (the djinn) to boot.
kudos to Starz and Fuller for going ahead with this.
kudos to Starz and Fuller for going ahead with this.
Dude, he was walking away from the graveyard where he had been grieving for his wife. He's walking because he doesn't have any kind of transport except what Wednesday gives him. Maybe Audrey offered him a ride, but he refused for understandable reasons. And him being seemingly alone at night is the ideal time and place for an ambush him. Arbitrary non-sequitor nothing. I knew exactly where he was and why he was there and why what happened happened.
Annoying Old Party Man
Member
The sex scene was incredibly hot (and I'm not even gay... I think? God damn that was so erotic), and a big fuck you to both conservative America and conservative muslims, at the same time! Well done.
Other than that, I still don't like the protagonist, he is too... I don't know how to describe it.
And the story seems to be going nowhere but, as in the book, the satisfaction comes from the little mythic tales about gods operating in the U.S.
That feeling of weirdness, of a "what the fuck am I looking at" is something I cherish, so it feels good to watch this series.
Other than that, I still don't like the protagonist, he is too... I don't know how to describe it.
And the story seems to be going nowhere but, as in the book, the satisfaction comes from the little mythic tales about gods operating in the U.S.
That feeling of weirdness, of a "what the fuck am I looking at" is something I cherish, so it feels good to watch this series.
Ah, that's good. Must have just been interjected with another scene so when it returned i was a bit like "wha". That, I feel, is a side effect of the 'barrage of crazy scenes'. I found the flow either non-existent or difficult.
Nope. The scene transition was him hugging a broken down audrey -> Mad Sweeney's coin sinking into Laura's grave -> Shadow walking. But I don't really count hte coin thing as a scene interjection since it's still at the same place, and it even panned down from where Shadow nad Audrey were. The only thing really missing is Shadow deciding to finally leave, but do we really need that to infer that he left?
Jeezo, wonder what I was doing at the time. Need to rewatch.
I remember noticing in episode 1 that the complete absence of establishing shots and connecting shots was very off putting. It definitely has some, but they are never clear and always so fleeting. It feels like the editor is trying to rush past the establishing cinematic work and we never see character leaving place or connective moments (like we don't literally see him leave the graveyard, he's just suddenly on a road).
There's just something about the pace of the show that makes it feel poorly strung together, for me. I never have a feel for their location or what they're doing.
PS Audrey was great, probably the best thing in the show I've seen so far, along with Sweeney