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American Gods |OT| You Had Me At Bryan Fuller - Sundays on Starz
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
ive got a question about the checkers game. i think i noticed something on a re-watch. During the betting part (spoilering speculation in case its not an editing thing and is relevant later)
did the turns get messed up? Shadow goes twice in a row
I honestly think they just edited it for dramatic effect and messed up who goes when.
Tranqueris
Banned
Huh, didn't know that
was Robbie in the show. Makes a lot of sense for that character.
"old looking Dane Cook"
dead souls
Member
Best episode of the season easily.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
What is the premise of this show?
| Praxis |
Banned
Enjoyed episode 4, although I found the first half of it uninteresting. Shadow was never a great character, even in the book and I'm enjoying the adaptation mainly for the visuals and the more fantastical characters and situations brought to screen.
Old gods vying for power against 'new' gods. It's based on a popular book series.
Moff
Member
I think the episode made her more likeable.
before we just saw her as a cheater, now at least we understand how lonely and suicidal she was
before we just saw her as a cheater, now at least we understand how lonely and suicidal she was
I think I lost all sympathy for her when it was revealed she's the reason Shadow ended up in prison and only because she was bored.
Lord Frieza
Member
Not a series, just a book. There is supposed to be a sequel but it's been talked about forever
molnizzle
Member
Moff
Member
I don't think she was just bored, she was ready to end her life again
and it was shadows idea in the first place, and he is still an adult who can make his own decisions, I think they really tried to make that point as clear as possible
and it was shadows idea in the first place, and he is still an adult who can make his own decisions, I think they really tried to make that point as clear as possible
molnizzle
Member
Only point they made was he was willing to take the prison sentence for her so she wouldn't have to. Because he loved her. She took him for granted every step of their relationship. She was just using him to try and fill a hole in her own life. Then after he went away (because of her) she wouldn't even wait for him. She used Robbie the same way and was ready to discard him too.
She's a piece of shit. I hope she gets whats coming to her.
She's a piece of shit. I hope she gets whats coming to her.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
EPISODE 4 SPOILER
This is how I came away feeling. I know they were trying to engender some viewer sympathy for Laura, but I didn't buy it. I feel the tiniest bit sorry for Laura, but her personality is just off putting. Audrey is the one I actually felt bad for.
Totally agreed.
Even death asks her if it was for love and she says no but it is now.
It won't happen because Shadow loves her too much but I would hope he tells her to fuck off.
Even death asks her if it was for love and she says no but it is now.
It won't happen because Shadow loves her too much but I would hope he tells her to fuck off.
Dude, the fact that Laura even shows up at her house and is, like, "oops, I not only fucked your husband but I also killed him, this is awkward" is so shitty. I wish Audrey would've punched her other arm off.
This:
but framed around a road trip with a couple of very strange protagonists
The book goes very big on the road trip; the tv show more on the weird alt-theist shit
I think they wanted to emphasize that Laura was a shitty and self-absorbed person while she was alive. She didn't believe in anything and in her own words: "life just isn't that interesting."
Then she dies, meets Anubis, gets brought back to life, saves Shadow and simultaneously realizes she has super strength of some kind, and then suddenly she realizes there's more out there than meets the eye and she's given this second chance to make things right. Life's not boring anymore, but she has to know things will never be normal again. So, it's bittersweet for her, but in a way this is what she wanted. An interesting life.
Then she dies, meets Anubis, gets brought back to life, saves Shadow and simultaneously realizes she has super strength of some kind, and then suddenly she realizes there's more out there than meets the eye and she's given this second chance to make things right. Life's not boring anymore, but she has to know things will never be normal again. So, it's bittersweet for her, but in a way this is what she wanted. An interesting life.
It doesn't air for a few more hours. It's only on the STARZ app for now.
molnizzle
Member
She's a bad person for letting it get to that point. It was obvious early on that Shadow was way crazier about her than she was about him. She used him, no way around it.
Pretty much.
Why did Anubis greet her, anyway? I mean she didn't believe in anything. Shouldn't she have gone straight to the "darkness" or whatever?
Yeah honestly I'm not sure about that bit either. Seemed a little convenient? All he said was "the circumstances of your death permit me", but it's not like the lady in the last ep who believed in Anubis as a child, so I don't know.
Yeah, but it's emphasized that she didn't do it maliciously. It's not like she thought "Oh, here's a sucker I can mooch off of." It seems that she is just trying to find satisfaction in life and doesn't seem to consider how she's hurting other people.
It's not that it's wrong to be upset about her for it. It's just taht I can already see the double standard applying. Death has changed her and now she is going to act differently in regards to Shadow. Even that might have it's unsavory bits about it (since she seems to be the result of God Magic shenanigans going on), but she's trying.
It's not that it's wrong to be upset about her for it. It's just taht I can already see the double standard applying. Death has changed her and now she is going to act differently in regards to Shadow. Even that might have it's unsavory bits about it (since she seems to be the result of God Magic shenanigans going on), but she's trying.
Meanwhile, and I'm going to spoiler this separately because I'm not sure how obvious it is to anyone else,
Wednesday is using Shadow to his own ends. I feel this is obvious even without understanding what specific ends those are. He shows up taking advantage of his grief and lack of options to pressure him into a job
he doesn't want (one that puts him at risk of going back to jail for illegal activities, even though it was a stipulation of their deal that he doesn't do anything illegal, and could cost him his life, as it almost did at the hands of Technoboy). But you don't see anyone yet upset or calling for him to suffer.
So it's not that I want to defend Laura's actions. She wasn't a good person and the show acknowledges as much. But why does that mean people should hope she suffers some justice when her coming back as a zombie and throwing shit into the fan of the god's plans is much more interesting than seeing her punished out of divine need for justice. And it that is supposed to be a priority, why isn't there more outrage about the an actual god is presently acting the same way?
he doesn't want (one that puts him at risk of going back to jail for illegal activities, even though it was a stipulation of their deal that he doesn't do anything illegal, and could cost him his life, as it almost did at the hands of Technoboy). But you don't see anyone yet upset or calling for him to suffer.
So it's not that I want to defend Laura's actions. She wasn't a good person and the show acknowledges as much. But why does that mean people should hope she suffers some justice when her coming back as a zombie and throwing shit into the fan of the god's plans is much more interesting than seeing her punished out of divine need for justice. And it that is supposed to be a priority, why isn't there more outrage about the an actual god is presently acting the same way?
molnizzle
Member
I was thinking maybe because she worked in an Egyptian-themed casino? Still, very convenient.
Mr. Wednesday isn't lying to Shadow about being in love with him and then going behind his back with his best friend. While Shadow was in jail, because of something Mr. Wednesday asked him to do.
Depression doesn't give you a free pass to be a piece of shit, sorry. She did Shadow dirty.
"It seems that she is just trying to find satisfaction in life and doesn't seem to consider how she's hurting other people."
Well no shit. Standard operating procedure for garbage humans. She's completely self-centered.
Depression doesn't give you a free pass to be a piece of shit, sorry. She did Shadow dirty.
"It seems that she is just trying to find satisfaction in life and doesn't seem to consider how she's hurting other people."
Well no shit. Standard operating procedure for garbage humans. She's completely self-centered.
No, he was only lying about not doing anything illegal. And regardless of anything else, he is acting in bad faith. His plans are not and will not be beneficent to shadow.
What do you mean? Laura asked Shadow to commit a crime, just like Wednesday is doing.
No one said it does. The question I'm proposing is this: Why is passing some moral standard a concern in the first place? Or, alternatively, why is passing a moral standard something Laura has to do, but not Wednesday? Laura being a nice girl wouldn't have made her a good character, the same way Wednesday being a nice guy to Shadow wouldn't make her a good character. There's no calls to have Wednesday punished for being as callous with Shadow as Laura was. He's using him to his own ends, like Laura has. Which is good. We're getting a good story out of that. But that standard doesn't seem to apply to Laura, who for some reason people think she ought to be a good person?
molnizzle
Member
You're not making any sense. I don't want Laura's character to be a good person. She's a bad person, and I want her to face the consequences of that. That's interesting. That's a good story.
She's also not a literal Norse war god whose behaviors and personality were brought into existence by the beliefs of primitive Viking raiders. She's a normal person, so she's judged as one.
Honestly your defense of her actions is making me angrier than anything she did in the show. I'm not sure what kind of person someone must be in real life to sympathize with her character. Her actions are indefensible. When she shows up an Audrey's house like it was no big deal... ugh.
She's also not a literal Norse war god whose behaviors and personality were brought into existence by the beliefs of primitive Viking raiders. She's a normal person, so she's judged as one.
Honestly your defense of her actions is making me angrier than anything she did in the show. I'm not sure what kind of person someone must be in real life to sympathize with her character. Her actions are indefensible. When she shows up an Audrey's house like it was no big deal... ugh.
No, it isn't. I mean, subjectivity and all that, but really, no it isn't. It's just a cry for some cosmic justice, which isn't waht you want to see, or else you'd be outraged that Wednesday stole money from people at the bank and has gotten away with it. Generally speaking, you don't want bad people punished in fiction. They're the reason everything fun happens.
Well, if that's your perspective, you can make a clear case that her lack of empathy can potentially be caused by a mental disorder like sociopathy, which she obviously didn't choose. There is always a reason why someone does something.
Besides, while Odin isn't a normal person, he's still understands and violates normal human morality. He isn't compelled to do the bad things he does by some divine push out of his hands, he does them because he gets satisfaction and recognition out of it.
Besides, while Odin isn't a normal person, he's still understands and violates normal human morality. He isn't compelled to do the bad things he does by some divine push out of his hands, he does them because he gets satisfaction and recognition out of it.
Well, if you want to moralize, I can one up you and put forth that bad people are the ones who truly deserve sympathy. Laura does what she does out of unhappiness after all. Suicidal unhappiness.
But really, you're missing my points. I'm not saying "lets feel bad for Laura" I'm saying 2 things:
1. There is a double standard at play here in regards to her and Wednesday where she is culpable for her actions while apparently Wednesday is not.
2. Trying to seek arbitrary justice for fictional crimes is lame. Much more interesting is the stuff she's going to do as Shadow's super zombie stalker bodyguard.
But really, you're missing my points. I'm not saying "lets feel bad for Laura" I'm saying 2 things:
1. There is a double standard at play here in regards to her and Wednesday where she is culpable for her actions while apparently Wednesday is not.
2. Trying to seek arbitrary justice for fictional crimes is lame. Much more interesting is the stuff she's going to do as Shadow's super zombie stalker bodyguard.
I honestly think it's hard to judge a sucidal person by the same standards as you would judge most other people. That's not to defend her actions, but her mental state should be considered when judging her.
molnizzle
Member
Wednesday isn't lying about being in love with the main character with the full knowledge that the main character is crazy about him.
That's really all there is to it. Wednesday is up to some standard manipulatory shit. Laura took advantage of Shadow's feelings for her. It's fucked up, that's all there is to it.
Also WTF, we're defending sociopaths now? I don't even know what to say to that.
That's really all there is to it. Wednesday is up to some standard manipulatory shit. Laura took advantage of Shadow's feelings for her. It's fucked up, that's all there is to it.
Also WTF, we're defending sociopaths now? I don't even know what to say to that.
So you have sympathy for mass shooters too?
Being suicidal doesn't give you a pass to treat people like garbage and play with their feelings. There's nothing to consider—she's was a shit person who lacked empathy.
Being suicidal doesn't give you a pass to treat people like garbage and play with their feelings. There's nothing to consider—she's was a shit person who lacked empathy.
Umm, no? That's a ridiculous jump to make. Laura never tried to murder anyone.
You're applying a double standard is all that there is to it. They did materially different things, but the principle of their immorality is the same: They use shadow as a tool for their own ends. Except Wednesday can do it in your eyes without outrage, but apparently Laura cannot.
Well...yes. You opened the door to that point by trying to excuse Wednesday's maliciousness as outside of his control due to being a god concocted by a culture that worshipped sociopathic traits.
No, and see my previous post again because you're just entirely missing the point. I'm not saying she wasn't a shit person. I'm saying, why does her being a shit person matter (or why does it matter more than Wednesday)?
molnizzle
Member
Wednesday isn't lying about being in love with Shadow.
Holy shit, man. Have you never been in a serious relationship? You're blowing my fucking mind right now. What the two of them are doing is not even close to the same thing. Jesus.
Holy shit, man. Have you never been in a serious relationship? You're blowing my fucking mind right now. What the two of them are doing is not even close to the same thing. Jesus.
Who said it matters? We're discussing the plot of a television show here.
Because of the actions of one character, I dislike that character. It's really that simple.
In any case I'm done discussing this with you, you're making me want to pull my fucking hair out.
Because of the actions of one character, I dislike that character. It's really that simple.
In any case I'm done discussing this with you, you're making me want to pull my fucking hair out.
They're suicidal though, aren't they? Shouldn't that be taken into consideration?
I mean, it will hurt Shadow more personally than Wednesday, sure, but the immorality of the act is the same.
But...okay, fine. I'll concede the point for the sake of argument. Lets say what Laura did was worse. But what Wednesday is doing is still bad and of the same nature. Yet there isn't a smaller outrage over Wednesdays machinations, there's none whatsoever. In fact, you're going out of your way to make excuses for his wrongdoings. Instead, there's just a general interest to keep things going because we want to see what he's got planned. Because that's what we're really here for, not to see evil punished.
But...okay, fine. I'll concede the point for the sake of argument. Lets say what Laura did was worse. But what Wednesday is doing is still bad and of the same nature. Yet there isn't a smaller outrage over Wednesdays machinations, there's none whatsoever. In fact, you're going out of your way to make excuses for his wrongdoings. Instead, there's just a general interest to keep things going because we want to see what he's got planned. Because that's what we're really here for, not to see evil punished.
You're free to like or dislike what you please. But you're also calling for her to be punished. That is the direction you said you wanted the story to go in. I disagree. Not because I disagree with you that Laura is immoral, but because that is a lame direction for the story to go in. And also inconsistently attributed since no such call was made for Wednesday.
There is no reasonable comparison between the weight of those wrongdoings.
Tranqueris
Banned
The part with her and Audrey made me go from disliking her to feeling much better about her character.
Also this whole page reads like some kind of redacted CIA report.
molnizzle
Member
My last response to you before you're going on my ignore list, but:
[Breaking Bad spoilers]
I fully expect for Mr. Wednesday to get what's coming to him as well. He's just, ya know, the central plot point of the entire show right now. Without him there's no show. So yeah, he gets a pass for the time being.
It was the same situation with Walter White. He was fucking hated by the end of Breaking Bad, but he was necessary. The emotional payoff of seeing him finally die was the perfect way to end the series.
Emotional payoff is not a "lame direction" for stories to go in. Emotional payoff is the primary reason many people watch long-form television like this.
[Breaking Bad spoilers]
I fully expect for Mr. Wednesday to get what's coming to him as well. He's just, ya know, the central plot point of the entire show right now. Without him there's no show. So yeah, he gets a pass for the time being.
It was the same situation with Walter White. He was fucking hated by the end of Breaking Bad, but he was necessary. The emotional payoff of seeing him finally die was the perfect way to end the series.
Emotional payoff is not a "lame direction" for stories to go in. Emotional payoff is the primary reason many people watch long-form television like this.
Emtional payoff =/= moral justice. That example is particularly odd, since Walt got everything he actually wanted. Him dying was hardly even a punishment for him. That was the point of the ending. He died happy.
Lookin like a classified FBI document up in here lol
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Soooo.. good episode?