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American Soccer |OT| Life, liberty and the pursuit of the beautiful game

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M

Meier

Member
Cornballer said:
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Good to hear it'll be that quick of a return.

I'm more or less indifferent on pro/rel in the US. It should happen, because the sport should be in line with the rest of the world, but I realize that it won't due to a system where owners have paid up to $100m to get a seat at the table and there isn't enough money for a massive golden parachute like there is in England for instance.

But the concept of a commissioner having any say in what a national team coach does or says is so absurd that I just can't even imagine he said it with a straight face, let alone that he "demand[ed]" it. Garber just came off looking like a petulant child.
 
X

xbhaskarx

Member
Meier said:
I'm more or less indifferent on pro/rel in the US. It should happen, because the sport should be in line with the rest of the world, but I realize that it won't due to a system where owners have paid up to $100m to get a seat at the table
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I'd say there's a higher probability that "the rest of the world" eliminates promotion / relegation than there is that MLS adopts it. Of course that's not hard given that the odds of the latter are close to zero...

bonesmccoy said:
Promotion/Relegation won't work without completely scrapping the way the MLS handles contracts and salaries.
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Also:
Do teams that paid $70-100 million to join the league get a refund when they get relegated out of the league?
Why would owners who paid $70-100 million to join the league let other owners in (meaning as partners with an equal percentage in MLS, SUM, etc.) for free? Especially when the alternative is continuing to let in owners who are willing to pay nine figure expansion fees that get split amongst the current owners.
 
X

xbhaskarx

Member
Graham Parker: Complicated reality of Don Garber's response to Jurgen Klinsmann


One aspect of the story that did stand out for me, though, as the immediate reaction rumbled on and battle lines were drawn for sustained tension between league and national team, was that the fixation on "Should Garber have reacted?" missed a key point. Namely, that for all his insistence on his "personal disappointment" and talk of Klinsmann as a friend who he'd written to but not heard back from on the matter (Landon Donovan's recent experience suggests Garber may have been wise to include a stamped, self-addressed envelope for the return), Garber was not speaking purely for himself, but also at the behest of the MLS owners on the board.

I'm not saying that Garber didn't feel every inch of the frustration he expressed Wednesday -- the league commissioner's job is hardly made easier by Klinsmann's occasional disingenuous "this is going to sound reeeeeeally mean, but ..." comments about the league and its marquee U.S. players.
...
As was alluded to in an aside about the letters sent by them, this was about the MLS ownership board pushing back.

That ownership board has been transforming beyond all recognition in recent years. As fast as MLS expansion has been, the expansion of the board has been faster, as the sport's industrialists of the early years (who took on consolidated holdings in the lean days after contraction) divested their multiple club positions of post-2002, while all the while being joined by the tech money and entrepreneurial thinkers that has dominated the expansion owners.
...
As the body that makes those investments, it's perhaps inevitable that the owners have limited patience with even such a storied sporting presence as Klinsmann, as he continues to make statements that to their mind devalue said investments, or at very least don't seem to recognize the long-term good faith behind them.
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H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
The problem with MLS is not that it has no Pro/Rel structure. The level of play in the MLS is not gonna just magically improve because we've got the San Antonion Scorpions instead of Chivas USA.

But, you don't have to agree with Klinsmann's stance on Pro/Rel (which is pretty lol worthy) to see where he's coming from regarding Bradley/Dempsey.

Garber's comments made him and the MLS look total bush league.
 
M

Meier

Member
Hasphat'sAnts said:
The problem with MLS is not that it has no Pro/Rel structure. The level of play in the MLS is not gonna just magically improve because we've got the San Antonion Scorpions instead of Chivas USA.

But, you don't have to agree with Klinsmann's stance on Pro/Rel (which is pretty lol worthy) to see where he's coming from regarding Bradley/Dempsey.
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I think an important part in the SI piece above regarding pro/rel is that it reinforces that the specter of relegation forces chairmen/owners to be proactive in the transfer market. If you're a newly promoted side and don't spend, then you end up looking like Burnley. Entirely toothless. There is very little doubt that they'll go back down this season. You look at Leicester, by comparison, who spent a lot (within reason) on Ulloa and he's won them multiple games. Spending doesn't guarantee success (as we've seen with QPR), but it at least shows that the management is making an effort to do so.

Teams at the bottom of the table in MLS have little incentive to get better because in general, fans are pretty loyal and will probably keep coming out and the shared revenue will make up any shortfall.
 
O

Osorio

Member
The only reason I'd like pro/rel is that if there are enough levels in the pyramid I can start my own club for a small fee.

No need to bitch about Red Bull if I started my own Metro
 
X

xbhaskarx

Member
The numbers

The modern era of American soccer began with the 1990 World Cup. There have now been seven World Cups in the modern era, with the U.S. qualifying for each subsequent tournament since Italy 90.

A look at Klinsmann’s team performance in Brazil shows several figures where the team does not compare favorably to its predecessors:

-In its four games, the USA averaged 43.5 percent possession, the second lowest of the seven World Cup teams since 1990 (1994: 42.6 percent).

-The 2014 U.S. squad allowed its opponents an average of 500 passes per 90 minutes, at an accuracy rate of 87 percent. Both figures are the highest of the seven World Cup teams since 1990.

-The 2014 U.S. squad allowed its opponents an average of 168 passes in the final third per 90 minutes, at an accuracy rate of 77 percent. Both figures, again, are the highest of the seven World Cup teams since 1990.

-The U.S. averaged 98.5 passes in the final third per 90 minutes, the third lowest of the seven World Cup teams since 1990 (1990: 90.0, 1994: 89.8).

-The U.S. took 44 total shots at the 2014 World Cup, an average of 10.15 per 90 minutes, the lowest average of the seven World Cup teams since 1990.

-The U.S. allowed 94 total shots at the 2014 World Cup, an average of 21.7 per 90 minutes, the highest average of the seven World Cup teams since 1990.

-According to the FIFA statistic “dangerous chances,” in the 2014 World Cup the USA trailed its opponents by a 248 to 131 margin through four games.

There were positive numbers as well, such as the team’s 15.15 percent conversion rate – the highest since 1990 and a number suggesting a highly opportunistic bunch.
 
X

xbhaskarx

Member
Meier said:
Teams at the bottom of the table in MLS have little incentive to get better because in general, fans are pretty loyal and will probably keep coming out and the shared revenue will make up any shortfall.
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So you think there's more turnover between the top and bottom teams in leagues with promotion / relegation like the Premier League, Bundesliga, and La Liga, than there is in MLS??

San Jose won the Supporters Shield in 2012, they are second to last currently. DC United was one of the worst teams in MLS history in 2013, they are top of the eastern conference currently.

Do those pro/rel leagues have anywhere near the same number of teams capable of finishing anywhere from first to last over the last decade? Chivas was first in 2007 and RSL last. See also teams like Kansas City, New England, Columbus.... heck even LA was tied for last in 2006.

Toronto spent like a hundred million dollars on players and are spending that more than that on stadium improvements, when they have no incentive to do so according to you. Not sure why KC rebranded and improved. Or why RSL went from a joke to one of the best teams. Or why San Jose privately funded their own stadium. Or New England paid millions for Jones. Maybe those teams don't realize that they have no incentive to get better?

If anything, promotion / relegation encourages the teams at the bottom with no hope of winning trophies to play unattractive soccer hoping to squeak out a few wins and a bunch of draws to keep them from being relegated.

Washington Post: The unappealing moneyball of Crystal Palace and Hull City

Neither Palace nor Hull used the sudden revenue jump associated with joining the Premier League to spend particularly lavishly, dropping net spend numbers of about $20 million and $30 million respectively, while the other promoted side Cardiff City splashed over $50 million. But at the end of the season, it was the Welsh side that was relegated back to the Championship. Palace finished a solid 11th, while Hull City ended safely in 16th and reached the final of the FA Cup.

How did the Eagles and the Tigers stay in the league? It was not, sad to say, by playing inspiring or exciting soccer. Managers Tony Pulis and Steve Bruce built teams that excelled instead at soccer’s classic weapons of the weak. They defended deep, then attacked quickly down the flanks with long balls and crosses. I wrote earlier about opposition passing percentage as a marker of a high defensive press. No team in England forced a lower rate incomplete passes than Crystal Palace at just over 17 percent. Hull City was little better, at a little over 18 percent. No exciting, high tempo press here.

Both teams also eschewed attacks through the center for more speculative crosses from the flanks. Pulis’s and Bruce’s sides led the league in their ratio of crosses to through-balls attempted.

...

Most teams in the Premier League, even Hull City, play over 150 passes in their own defensive half per match. Your more progressive passing attacks like Liverpool and Arsenal attempt well over 200. Tony Pulis got his team under 100 per match.

These tactics hold little appeal for fans. They tend to slow games down, and the goals that are scored tend to be more on the smash-and-grab end of the attractiveness spectrum. But at a reasonably low cost, these tactics carried Hull City to the FA Cup final and Crystal Palace out of the basement into the mid-table. I worry that if a systematic Moneyball approach comes to soccer, for many teams it might look a lot more like Pulis-ball than anything else.
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Of course out of all the pro/rel fanboys in the US you won't see too many fans of Hull City or Leeds United or Kaiserslautern or Real Zaragoza I'm guessing... funny how that works out, Americans rooting for Arsenal and Liverpool and Bayern Munich and Real Madrid fully support promotion and relegation, and neither one applies to them!
 
O

Osorio

Member
xbhaskarx said:
Of course out of all the pro/rel fanboys in the US you won't see too many fans of Hull City or Leeds United or Kaiserslautern or Real Zaragoza I'm guessing... funny how that works out, Americans rooting for Arsenal and Liverpool and Bayern Munich and Real Madrid fully support promotion and relegation, and neither one applies to them!
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Valid point but as a fan of Rayo Vallecano, if it wasn't for pro/rel they wouldn't be in La Liga

Neither would Eibar, or Getafe, etc.

However, I do agree that most people who are for pro/rel in this country aren't fans of small clubs. If any! I never meet American fans of smaller clubs.
 
B

Brashnir

Member
xbhaskarx said:
So you think there's more turnover between the top and bottom teams in leagues with promotion / relegation like the Premier League, Bundesliga, and La Liga, than there is in MLS??

San Jose won the Supporters Shield in 2012, they are second to last currently. DC United was one of the worst teams in MLS history in 2013, they are top of the eastern conference currently.

Do those pro/rel leagues have anywhere near the same number of teams capable of finishing anywhere from first to last over the last decade? Chivas was first in 2007 and RSL last. See also teams like Kansas City, New England, Columbus.... heck even LA was tied for last in 2006.

Toronto spent like a hundred million dollars on players and are spending that more than that on stadium improvements, when they have no incentive to do so according to you. Not sure why KC rebranded and improved. Or why RSL went from a joke to one of the best teams. Or why San Jose privately funded their own stadium. Or New England paid millions for Jones. Maybe those teams don't realize that they have no incentive to get better?

If anything, promotion / relegation encourages the teams at the bottom with no hope of winning trophies to play unattractive soccer hoping to squeak out a few wins and a bunch of draws to keep them from being relegated.

Washington Post: The unappealing moneyball of Crystal Palace and Hull City



Of course out of all the pro/rel fanboys in the US you won't see too many fans of Hull City or Leeds United or Kaiserslautern or Real Zaragoza I'm guessing... funny how that works out, Americans rooting for Arsenal and Liverpool and Bayern Munich and Real Madrid fully support promotion and relegation, and neither one applies to them!
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Great post. Relegation basically is a trade of two games of tension at the end of the season for decades of irrelevant games.

Once a team is relegated, they're toast for the entire career of every player on that team, unless some billionaire swoops in and decides to waste hundreds of millions of dollars on his toy. Every European top division is 80-90% teams with absolutely no hope of winning a championship in our lifetimes, more if you count all the teams who bounce in and out of the bottom every year. Why would anybody want that?

Pro/Rel is a perfectly good structure for a bunch of amateur and semi-pro clubs in a competition where there's hundreds of teams and you can't fit them all in one league, which is why it started to begin with. It is an absolute disaster if you want a truly competitive league in the modern professional sports era.
 
X

xbhaskarx

Member
Lee Nguyen still has zero caps since returning to MLS, I don't even want to list all the mediocre midfielders who have been looked at (and even made World Cup rosters) ahead of him because that would be too depressing... too bad there's no pro/rel, if the Revs were in NASL maybe he'd get a shot!
 
O

Osorio

Member
Ugh.

Well we have a glimmer of hope to finish 3rd...to play arguably the hottest team in the league in the first round.

There's no ideal situation here for us.

I wouldn't mind playing DC but I don't want to play a wild card game for the sake of our old ass players.

But if we do end up 3rd we're going to have to play a playoff game on turf which will be tough on Henry and Olave
 
M

Meier

Member
xbhaskarx said:
If anything, promotion / relegation encourages the teams at the bottom with no hope of winning trophies to play unattractive soccer hoping to squeak out a few wins and a bunch of draws to keep them from being relegated.
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That's fine. Teams can and should do whatever it takes to stay in the league. More often than not, that involves spending a decent amount of cash but sometimes it also involves getting a coach who has been effective at keeping teams up. in Palace's case, they were looking like they may be headed to one of the worst records in the history of the Premier League until Pulis saved their season.

With relegation, every year can be your last in the top flight. San Jose would have been forced to make notable changes with relegation being a concern. I'm for it only in that I think MLS should have it because the league and system should be on par with every other footballing federation in the world. I think it's probably fair to say that the salary cap and other limiting factors are just as important for parity, if not more so, than lack of relegation. The league as a whole is set up in every regard to allow parity to exist because it makes sense economically for the owners as a whole.

As far as teams that have fairly recently been promoted/relegated and their success... these 20 minutes are worth your time:

(1 of 3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFamFC6ucfE
(2 of 3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSHeMJu5yR4
(3 of 3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNHQAEHbAHw
 
M

makingmusic476

Member
Notrollious said:
You can also have your top 23 players playing in the highest league(s) and still have a good domestic league. How many countries have better national teams than we do and yet don't have the world's top leagues? I mean the Belgium team that we lost to? like 3 or 4 of the players were playing in the Belgian Pro League.
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Well yeah, but those countries don't have non-Soccer leagues attracting the lion's share of money and athletes. They can have their best players play elsewhere while continuing to give the sport plenty of attention at home.

That's why Garber and Klinsmann are butting heads. Klinnsman is most concerned with the here and now. It's his job to ensure that the current members of the USMNT are playing to the best of their ability. Dempsey, Bradley, et al. playing in tougher leagues overseas is obviously something he'd want.

Garber, on the other hand, is more concerned with the longterm health of MLS and US Soccer. From his perspective, having the USMNT's stars playing here at home attracts more fans and money to MLS, and, over the long term, more players. Some of that additional revenue is then put towards academies and everything else we use to cultivate whatever talent arises. He's playing the long game.

I think Garber overreacted a bit, but I understand why he'd take issue with Klinsmann constantly knocking the fact that some of MLS's best are playing in MLS. My thinking is pretty in line with Garber's when it comes to how USMNT athletes can best serve US Soccer.

Both aren't exclusive to one another. The biggest problem MLS is facing is lack of depth and lower team budgets (salary cap included) overall. Once the league can get more money in we can start to bring in some of the better talent on a consistent basis and then it might not be perceived as detrimental to bring your talents to the back to the US if you're apart of the USMNT. And even then the growth has to come from the bottom in the academies and youth programs.
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Will lower team budgets really change that much? There are still limits to how many foreign players can play on a team, and higher salaries doesn't mean filler players suddenly get better.

Growth in overall talent has to come from 1. more talented athletes choosing soccer over other sports, and 2. better training of those athletes through better funded, more widespread, and more comprehensive academies. I think USMNT stars playing here at home definitely helps attract that much needed talent and money.
 
O

Osorio

Member
How many federations had teams joining the first division by paying an amount of money unimaginable to teams in the lower divisions?

The system we have here is a different ballgame. It's economically unfeasible to have pro/rel.

Likewise, removing pro/rel would be almost impossible to happen without uproar in Europe because who decides what the final teams are in the top division? Whoever happens to be at the top at the cutoff point? The clubs who would earn the most money?
 
X

xbhaskarx

Member
xbhaskarx said:
Bill Archer: Garber Takes Klinsy to the Woodshed

It will be interesting to see how the arrogant, ego-besotted Klinsmann, who considers himself the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral, responds to this kind of public spanking.
The guess here is that he'll take Garber's advice and come out shuffling and jiving about how he was "misunderstood" or some such rubbish.
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spot on prediction...

Reuters: Klinsmann says not criticizing MLS, welcomes 'debate'

Klinsmann said he believed Garber had misunderstood him.

"This creates a lot of different opinions and also some misunderstandings."

"I’d simply respond to Don that it’s just not the case and I would never criticize the MLS or the clubs"

"I think some things were a little misread into my comments"
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"a little misread" is the new "a little bit ahead of him"...
 
M

Meier

Member
Osorio said:
How many federations had teams joining the first division by paying an amount of money unimaginable to teams in the lower divisions?

The system we have here is a different ballgame. It's economically unfeasible to have pro/rel.

Likewise, removing pro/rel would be almost impossible to happen without uproar in Europe because who decides what the final teams are in the top division? Whoever happens to be at the top at the cutoff point? The clubs who would earn the most money?
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The rising expansions fees are obviously the limiting factor and the reason it won't happen for a very long time. But when a team goes from the Championship to the Premier League, they're given effectively $150m due to the golden parachute and the increased revenue from the league. It'd be an unbelievable amount of time until the reward was similar in the US, but any initial investment could be paid off in time. It isn't just Europe by the way.. it's the entire world.

By the way, Jurgen has responded: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/17/us-soccer-usa-klinsmann-idUSKCN0I603620141017
 
O

Osorio

Member
Meier said:
The rising expansions fees are obviously the limiting factor and the reason it won't happen for a very long time. But when a team goes from the Championship to the Premier League, they're given effectively $150m due to the golden parachute and the increased revenue from the league. It'd be an unbelievable amount of time until the reward was similar in the US, but any initial investment could be paid off in time. It isn't just Europe by the way.. it's the entire world.

By the way, Jurgen has responded: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/17/us-soccer-usa-klinsmann-idUSKCN0I603620141017
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I know all of that. I'm not ignorant of the rest of the world's league system.

There's a huge difference between being given $150 mil for being promoted, and paying $100 mil from your club's owners/investors to join the league befor spending a dime on stadium, staff, players, etc.

If you want an example of what I'm talking about, Eibar, from La Liga is a team from a town of 20,000 in the Basque mountains. Their stadium seats a little over 5,000 people. They won the second division outright. However, the club was threatened with relegation back to division three due to its financial inability to transform, as required by law, into a Sociedad Anónima Deportiva. In order to become a S.A.D. Eibar needed to have a share capital of at least 2,146,525.95€ before 6 August 2014. The club launched a campaign with the aim of reaching the required amount. People from across the world donated money and they are playing in La Liga this season.
 
X

xbhaskarx

Member
Regarding no incentive without pro/rel because "shared revenue will make up any shortfall", I wanted to post the article about Blackpool's owners pocketing over £100 million in parachute payments since they were relegated in 2011 while the club only had like six players under contract, but it's from the Daily Fail....

/sport/football/article-2720153/Blackpool-hit-rock-bottom-fans-say-Oyston-family-driven-greed-new-boss-Jose-Riga-tries-bring-squad-TWELVE-new-players.html
 
M

Meier

Member
Osorio said:
I know all of that. I'm not ignorant of the rest of the world's league system.

There's a huge difference between being given $150 mil for being promoted, and paying $100 mil from your club's owners/investors to join the league

If you want an example of what I'm talking about, Eibar, from La Liga is a team from a town of 20,000 in the Basque mountains. Their stadium seats a little over 5,000 people. They won the second division outright. However, the club was threatened with relegation back to division three due to its financial inability to transform, as required by law, into a Sociedad Anónima Deportiva. In order to become a S.A.D. Eibar needed to have a share capital of at least 2,146,525.95€ before 6 August 2014. The club launched a campaign with the aim of reaching the required amount. People from across the world donated money and they are playing in La Liga this season.
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Not really sure where Eibar fits in here. We are in agreement that the expansion fee is the limiting factor. It's important to note though that this is not just a European thing. It's the world. So yes, it's a little unfortunate that we're going against the rest of the world.. it's very American though so there's that.
 
O

Osorio

Member
xbhaskarx said:
Regarding no incentive without pro/rel because "shared revenue will make up any shortfall", I wanted to post the article about Blackpool's owners pocketing over £100 million in parachute payments since they were relegated in 2011 while the club only had like six players under contract, but it's from the Daily Fail....

/sport/football/article-2720153/Blackpool-hit-rock-bottom-fans-say-Oyston-family-driven-greed-new-boss-Jose-Riga-tries-bring-squad-TWELVE-new-players.html
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Regardless, parachute payments are the exact opposite of how MLS expansion operates.
 
X

xbhaskarx

Member
So should basketball leagues throughout the rest of the world not have promotion / relegation because the NBA is the top league and it doesn't have promotion / relegation?
Like, that's the only thing to consider? Specific local circumstances and history are irrelevant? Just do what the top league does because it's the top league?
 
O

Osorio

Member
Meier said:
Not really sure where Eibar fits in here. We are in agreement that the expansion fee is the limiting factor. It's important to note though that this is not just a European thing. It's the world. So yes, it's a little unfortunate that we're going against the rest of the world.. it's very American though so there's that.
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We'd have to emulate Japan. They're the most recent league that formed with relegation (that I know of) but I'm not too well-versed in J-League history.

A-League is a league I'd say that is most similar to us and they're nowhere near the point of having pro/rel
 
M

Meier

Member
xbhaskarx said:
Regarding no incentive without pro/rel because "shared revenue will make up any shortfall", I wanted to post the article about Blackpool's owners pocketing over £100 million in parachute payments since they were relegated in 2011 while the club only had like six players under contract, but it's from the Daily Fail....

/sport/football/article-2720153/Blackpool-hit-rock-bottom-fans-say-Oyston-family-driven-greed-new-boss-Jose-Riga-tries-bring-squad-TWELVE-new-players.html
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Didn't say no, said less incentive to spend if you're at the bottom. And that is accurate. There is less incentive to spend money if there is no penalty for not doing it. We see it in every league in America regardless of the sport.

In Blackpool's case, this is just a horrific owner who clearly has checked out and is sucking the club dry. If they're on their way down to League One and have no further funds coming from the Premier League, it wouldn't be a shock to see the Oystons sell the team -- certainly the supporters would prefer this so it's a win win at this point.
 
X

xbhaskarx

Member
Sorry about that, I was writing fast and that should have been "less" not "no"...

Exactly they'll sell the husk now that they've bled the team dry of £100 million, leaving Blackpool fans with a crappy League One team.
The owners get their money. The Blackpool fans get League One. What did they do to deserve that? Who exactly is being punished here and why?
 
H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
xbhaskarx said:
The numbers

The modern era of American soccer began with the 1990 World Cup. There have now been seven World Cups in the modern era, with the U.S. qualifying for each subsequent tournament since Italy 90.

A look at Klinsmann’s team performance in Brazil shows several figures where the team does not compare favorably to its predecessors:

-In its four games, the USA averaged 43.5 percent possession, the second lowest of the seven World Cup teams since 1990 (1994: 42.6 percent).

-The 2014 U.S. squad allowed its opponents an average of 500 passes per 90 minutes, at an accuracy rate of 87 percent. Both figures are the highest of the seven World Cup teams since 1990.

-The 2014 U.S. squad allowed its opponents an average of 168 passes in the final third per 90 minutes, at an accuracy rate of 77 percent. Both figures, again, are the highest of the seven World Cup teams since 1990.

-The U.S. averaged 98.5 passes in the final third per 90 minutes, the third lowest of the seven World Cup teams since 1990 (1990: 90.0, 1994: 89.8).

-The U.S. took 44 total shots at the 2014 World Cup, an average of 10.15 per 90 minutes, the lowest average of the seven World Cup teams since 1990.

-The U.S. allowed 94 total shots at the 2014 World Cup, an average of 21.7 per 90 minutes, the highest average of the seven World Cup teams since 1990.

-According to the FIFA statistic “dangerous chances,” in the 2014 World Cup the USA trailed its opponents by a 248 to 131 margin through four games.

There were positive numbers as well, such as the team’s 15.15 percent conversion rate – the highest since 1990 and a number suggesting a highly opportunistic bunch.
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Out of a 4 game sample size against the likes of Belgium, Ghana, Germany, and Portugal.

Would not put much stock into these statistics.
 
C

Cystm

Member
The league is not strong enough to have promotion/relegation. Not even close.

The league is still progressing, but


Naaaaaaaahhhhhh.
 
E

Esch

Banned
Jurgen Klinsmann said:
“It’s great to see that we have debates and public discussions like this because that shows that more and more people care about soccer in this country,” Klinsmann said when asked about criticism from MLS Commissioner Don Garber about his views.

“In Europe, in South America and in Mexico we’re all used to this,” Klinsmann said. “It’s part of people’s everyday lives – to have debates about different opinions. It’s just starting now in the United States and I think it’s pretty cool.”
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I don't know if this is a troll or not but we'll done klinsi. Laughing my ass off.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Honestly the playoff race is probably more competitive than promotion/relegation. So long as you've got a half way decent record you have a shot at making them and it keeps the entire league competitive until the last month of the regular season when teams start getting eliminated. Not only that but the top teams have to keep playing at a high level or they won't have any momentum going into the playoffs. Without the playoffs the only games that would matter at this point would be Seattle and LA, since no one else has a chance in hell of catching them, shit they've been the only two in the supporters shield race since the start of September.
 
K

kIdMuScLe

Member
I don't understand why some of you guys want a relegation system with MLS. If my team were to be relegated then I would just stop caring about them since they are not a top tier team. The way it is now is how I like it. If the team fails to make the playoffs then I know that next year we might have a chance to make it in and have a shot at the championship. Plus a playoff tournament is tons better than the way the top euro leagues determine their champion. It is boring and it just becomes a 2 or 3 team race to the top.
 
A

ActStriker

Member
Farrell injury not serious. Thank God.

Andrew Farrell ‏@2Fast2Farrell 5m5 minutes ago
Back to Boston with #3pts and no ankles 😶 thanks for the all the texts and prayers feeling good and glad it wasn't serious #NERevs
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A

ActStriker

Member
This is also something!

Jeff Lemieux ‏@jeff_lemieux 3h3 hours ago
Not only is Nguyen @MLS top-scoring midfielder, he's the top-scoring American. USMNT surely on the horizon for the 28-yr-old. #NERevs #MVLee
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UncleO

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Why the dislike from Europe for the playoff system? If Im not mistaken the biggest footballing events in the continent have to do with a playoff style format. Champions League, Europa, Euros, League Cups etc.

I always wonder how much more fun the EPL would be with a playoff.
 
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