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American Soccer |OT2| Party Like It's 1999.
- Thread starter Cystm
- Start date
LyleLanley
Banned
Anyone got a gif or something of the Finlay non goal?
R10Neymarfan
Member
Colombia is the better team
Bad defending
Bad defending
The Chosen One
Member
Let the tears flow 
shoplifter
Member
perfectchaos007
Member
So we miss the Olympics AGAIN? Didn't we miss out in 2012 too?
ActStriker
Member
lmao what did Gil get the yellow there for
R10Neymarfan
Member
Lol
Gil that's what happens when you argue with the ref. And now I await the social media meltdown for the loss
Gil that's what happens when you argue with the ref. And now I await the social media meltdown for the loss
What a dive. That really sucks.
Yep.
shoplifter
Member
Suspension worthy dive gets Gil sent off. He didn't do himself any favors since coming on though.
perfectchaos007
Member
Oh there are still 10 minutes left? You guys were acting like the game was over. Theres still time to score an equalizer
ActStriker
Member
away goals rule. They need 2
smokeandmirrors
Banned
Need 2 to win. A tie means Colombia wins
R10Neymarfan
Member
No even if we score Colombia mores on because of the away goal count
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
CONMEBOL'd
shoplifter
Member
ncaasoccer.GIF
U23s got thoroughly bossed over two games.
Edit: cool, DOGSO
U23s got thoroughly bossed over two games.
Edit: cool, DOGSO
R10Neymarfan
Member
Why 5 more minutes of extra time just end it now
perfectchaos007
Member
Wow the future of American soccer looks pretty bad :/
ActStriker
Member
welp
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
@WillParchman
In the span of four years the U.S. has now missed its first back-to-back Olympics ever and its first U17 World Cup ever.
In the span of four years the U.S. has now missed its first back-to-back Olympics ever and its first U17 World Cup ever.
LyleLanley
Banned
Damn, that was beautiful too.
perfectchaos007
Member
US Soccer faces the same problems as US tennis. Our best athletes go to baseball, football, and basketball which greatly dilutes the athlete pool for other sports. I don't see that pecking order ever changing here.
That's not been the issue though, until fairly recently we haven't had much of a development system. The technical skills get taught at a young age and we haven't been doing a good job of it, though we've been rectifying that recently. Just because LeBron can play basketball doesn't mean he'd been any good at soccer. The rest of CONCACAF has been improving a lot over the last few years and we haven't kept up.
shoplifter
Member
Yep, in Europe these kids would have been playing professional matches since 17 or 18. Here, we're sending them to college programs where they don't develop.
I think part of the solution is to overhaul the college system. I think there's value to having it, it works for basketball and other sports, we just need to find a way to make it better than it has been. From what I read, it's largely been a joke and hasn't been all that hard or competitive. I think having it as another option, in addition to the academies that have sprouted up, would be a good thing. We just need to make it better than it has been. Like maybe allying schools with the academies and second and third tier clubs so people could do both.
The Chosen One
Member
That's absolutely the worst myth that constantly keeps getting trotted around. I'm so tired of hearing it.
We have 300 million people in the United States. We have over 4 million registered youth soccer players. That's bigger than the entire population of Uruguay. Yet Uruguay with their 3 million people can produce world class players like Cavani, Suarez, Forlan, and etc. Again, to frame it another way the Los Angeles metro area has a bigger population than Uruguay. The southern California region overall is one of several soccer hot beds in the US with more than enough capable talent.
It's not at all a numbers problem. Nevermind the fact that top basketball, baseball, or football athletes don't necessarily make good soccer players. For example, guys like Kevin Durant, Lebron James, Shaq, Larry Bird, and etc would make terrible/mediocre soccer players. Elite soccer players tend to be in the 5'6" - 6'1" range with superior agility, lean muscle mass, and with either a moderate to low-center of gravity. Soccer similar to Tennis is a highly skilled/technical sport. Meaning you have to start developing the skills foundation at a young age (5-8 years-old). It's a sport where you have to start the skills foundation pre-puberty. With American football, most kids don't start playing seriously until high school at 14-15 years old. Basketball is similar that a lot of development is done once the kid hits their growth spurt. Sports that require pre-puberty deveopment also require a person to have strong determination/mental toughness to train most of their childhood, which not every kid has.
My point is, your local star basketball or baseball player might not necessarily be the next Messi if only they decided to play soccer. Athletes tend to play sports they have a predisposition for. That local star basketball player with his gangly legs probably couldn't make the local high school soccer varsity team.
So again, it's not a numbers problem. It's a development problem. We don't know how to identify, develop, and harness the talent we have. And with our large geographic country, it's hard to put training centers everywhere with high quality coaches and a good scouting network similar to countries like Germany. We have a "Pay-to-Play" model that makes it very difficult for many of our talented and most passionate players in the younger ages simply because they don't have the means. Until very recently most MLS clubs treated their youth academies as promotional tools or charity work mandated by the league. They didn't use their academies to actually identify and train talent to become professionals at their club or to sell. Most of their resources went into buying semi-retired old Euro-stars to boost ticket sales in the sort term.
That is our problem. So please no more of this crap about our best athletes play football, basketball, and baseball. It's flat out wrong and does nothing to educate the real problems our youth soccer system faces. If you want more football running-backs playing soccer then you're going to get more guys like Jozy Altidore.
Why not both?
Very smart post, but THIS is flat out wrong. The best athletes do play these sports. Until MLS is economically viable compared to NFL, NBA and MLB, we won't see much of a difference in developing players. The other stuff will come with money. Money is what drive's sports and success in the US. MLS teams are doing more work with their academies to save money by getting players HG and then to later sell them if possible.
The size of the US makes it tough to move away from the pay to play system right now. Unfortunately there are only so many teams to be affiliated with and to help actually pay for development costs which is prohibitive. Brazil is a similarly sized country so it can be done with a huge area but look at the number of clubs they have: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_football_clubs_in_Brazil -- and this isn't even counting IMG Academy equivalents which are very, very common there since they can sell their players to the huge number of clubs. The economics of that don't exist in the US right now.
Money will drive the success of the sport in every conceivable way.
The Chosen One
Member
I agree with everything else you said. The money issue is spot on. So I''m just going to focus on the area where we have a differing opinion.
So if our best athletes are playing in the NFL, NBA, and MLB, let me put it to you another way. Messi is not only the best soccer player right now but many put him up there with the all-time greatest players. But even though Messi is a word-class athlete, what would happen if he chose to play football, baseball, or basketball. With his height and modest jumping ability, you can pretty much rule out basketball. With his small stature would also rule out football. He doesn't exactly have the build for a superstar baseball player either.
So if the top soccer athlete in the world (Messi) wouldn't make a superstar football or basketball player even if he started young, why do we assume the best NFL and NBA stars would make world class soccer players? I'm sure there's some overlap and I'm sure we lose some good athletes who meet the soccer profile to other sports, but I don't think it's enough to cause the lack of skill, technique, and game I.Q. at our professional and USNMT levels. Heck, I could easily argue that our USMNT is physically superior to Spain's national team. Yedlin is faster than anyone on that squad and Jozy and Zardes are stronger and bigger than all of them. Yet we can't hold a candle to Spain in a competitive match. Also when Mexico kicked our ass in the CONCACAF Cup last year, it wasn't because we were athletically inferior in terms of size, speed, and strength. They simply outclassed us from a technical and tactical standpoint.
Soccer is a technical sport. Pure athleticism can only you get you so far without top class technical ability. And many times a player with high degree of technical ability with modest athleticism will do better than a player with high athleticism but modest technical ability. Football is different. If you're big, fast, and strong, and can hold onto a ball then that's pretty much all you need to be a top running back. Pure athleticism (eventually tactical awareness.) will you get you far.
US Soccer does not lack athletes. And it's not a lack of athleticism or coordination that is causing our USMNT to under-perform. We just have a very poor technical and tactical foundation and this traces to our lackluster youth development. Giving Lebron James a soccer ball at 8 years-old would just produce another Jozy Altidore 20 years later in our current system. And conversely if Messi grew up in Texas 15-20 years ago, he probably would have got cut from the team or put on a "B" squad due to his lack of height (He was '4'6" when he was 11 years old).
Like I said, I agree money is a problem. But it's not that more money will attract superior athletes to play soccer, instead more money will encourage more clubs and academies to develop superior soccer players. Once there's real money to be made, the US will start bringing in better coaches at the youth level and more attention will be made on individual development at the younger ages instead of pointless summer trophies for 8-12 year-olds. I'm sure this will also attract more athletes from other sports but the big difference is that we'll actually know what to do with those athletes because technical and tactical development will be a priority if they want to have any hope of developing a high earning player.
shoplifter
Member
^^^ solidarity payments might be helpful, I have to think. We don't have enough 'professional' clubs to support the number of youth clubs/academies that are around. Until we have local clubs everywhere within an actual pyramid not a lot will change.
I don't think college soccer is a good solution if only because developing players are playing with players of the same age, not players of the same ability. I'm not running down the value of an education, but the goal isn't to educate the players in the case it's to develop them as high quality players.
I don't think college soccer is a good solution if only because developing players are playing with players of the same age, not players of the same ability. I'm not running down the value of an education, but the goal isn't to educate the players in the case it's to develop them as high quality players.
The bullshit monopoly of MLS is definitely a problem, although instituting a real pyramid isn't necessarily the sole panacea for identifying and developing talent. England has been at this longer than everyone and people like Vardy slipped through the cracks also. Injecting the game with a lot of money will help too, but it doesn't address our underlying problem with infrastructure and culture.
I agree with Chosen One that the biggest problem is still the low standard of coaching and general comprehension of the game amongst our populace.
I agree with Chosen One that the biggest problem is still the low standard of coaching and general comprehension of the game amongst our populace.
shoplifter
Member
They're all problems. Having a 'real' pyramid, whether economically realistic or not at the moment, will allow players to play at the level they're capable of regardless of age. Low standards of coaching is always going to happen when you have few career opportunities to play/coach at a professional level. Having a real pyramid would fix that too, even if it took time.
The Culture Vulture
Member
So with the season kicking off this weekend NASL finally announced their TV schedule. Games will be on a mix of ESPN3, beIN Sport and CBS Sportsnet. Confusing as hell but at least I only have one more year of them to deal with.
NobleGreenBeast
Member
http://www.lagalaxy.com/post/2016/0...m-photo-successful-right-knee-surgery-insider
Apparently, Robbie Keane had a successful knee surgery. Galaxy players are dropping like flies.
Apparently, Robbie Keane had a successful knee surgery. Galaxy players are dropping like flies.
Dr Campino
Member
Whatevs, right?
Orlando City SC Launches Lions Only, a Dating Website Exclusively For City Fans
Yes, it is indeed April 1st.
Cornballer
Member
Matt Besler tweet about 'Jersey Fridays' at SKC.
Not terribly notable, but I lol'd at Feilhaber's choice:
Not terribly notable, but I lol'd at Feilhaber's choice:
Cornballer
Member
- MLS Analysts' preview of this weekend's games
He uses this chart to talk about how Portland have created well, but I'll go ahead and use it to cringe at the Quakes' numbers:
He uses this chart to talk about how Portland have created well, but I'll go ahead and use it to cringe at the Quakes' numbers:
Money for player development can be considered an issue, money for elite athletes isn't. Any talented player can get very rich indeed in Europe and face it most American kids are watching and aspiring to the Premier League/La Liga/ect not MLS. So the low wages on offer domestically shouldn't be putting them off if they have ambitions of reaching the top of the sport.
And is Yedlin really faster than Bellerin?