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[squidyj]

For anyone voting Kyanrute, can you please tell me why him instead of Bowlie?

the fuck is this shit right here?

kyan should be a fucking policy lynch at this point.

 

[Burbeting]

Hey guys, the vote tool is back! It's right here! If "recount" does not seem to work, try clearing cache with CTRL+R, that should show the current votes.


ultron87 (1)
squidyj 1041

swamped (0)
cabot 1042 (1052)

poltergust (1)
hey_monkey 1043

blackbuzzard (1)
cabot 1052

kyanrute (2)
theexodu5 1066
poltergust 1074

bowlie (1)
palmer_v1 1088

 

[TheExodu5]

Does ultron's role show him to be a clear town?

Argument can be made for neutral.

Scum is unlikely.

Why is scum unlikely for ultron? Seems like a well tooled power for scum.

 

[Bowlie]

*sighs* and I tunneled.

Basically admits it's not a useful vote, but doesn't change it? How the fuck is going to respond to any pressure while banned? We also know now that nomadic was town.

AGAIN! Bowlie admits the nomadic vote isn't really useful, but refuses to change to anything.

I never said my vote wasn't useful. Nomadic was the most suspicious player to me yesterday, and if he had said before being banned he was immune to night kills I'd probably suspect him more, he was right in that regard. I saw no reason to change to Zubz or ultron when I didn't doubt them as much.

 

[Swamped]

Allow me to explain! It has to do with how Kyanrute survived last night, which forms the basis of my suspicion with him.

OK, so I understand that I'm currently on thin ice right now, especially with my actions towards the end of yesterday. Although it was not my intention, I almost made a tie happen. This is due to me putting my opinion on Kyanrute above all else. Because of this, I believe now that my fate going forward is directly tied to Kyanrute.

There is so much wrong with this post, but it has convinced me that Poltergust is probably town. Firstly, I personally hardly registered a Kyan/Polter connection. Sure Polter was suspicious of him and voted for him but town tunnels all the time. I highly highly doubt scum would have killed Kyan for this reason. In fact, many people were low-key suspicious of him D1 so it was in their best interest to keep in around, and possibly push him. But townies sometimes get this persecution complex, they only see the game from their narrow POV and I really think that's what's happening in Polter's post. Polter - I still want to know your opinion of Squidy (but if you already discussed it please link me I missed it).

I do think the link between you two is more tenuous than you're interpreting, but I also agree that killing Kyanrute would have been a strong play. It would have thrown suspicion all over the place and probably been bad for town, creating new factions.

But since Kyan's probably scum, it didn't happen.

There's just something about this Monkey post that doesn't sit right with me, and paired with Palmer's excellent post that I quoted below, I'm leaning more gaijin on her. Cabot - hope that answers your question.

Because kyan is doing nothing but shitposting and I'm not really a fan. Too hard to get a read either way.

Have you really read through all Kyan's posts? He has contributed quite a bit I feel. Whether he is town or gaijin I don't know (but I'm leaning town). This reason for shade on Kyan is really unconvincing and I'm seeing you in more of a gaijin light now.

Long post catching up on the end of day and start of day shenanigans. Most important thing though:

I really really like this Palmer post. It highlights exactly what I always want to look for, and way better that I ever could have: WISHY-WASHY-NESS. This really is the epitome of scum behaviour.

VOTE: hey_monkey

 

[Swamped]

the fuck is this shit right here?

kyan should be a fucking policy lynch at this point.

Hey, so, what was your link between Poltergust and Haly on D1? Also, do you have an opinion on Monkey?

 

[Kyanrute]

the fuck is this shit right here?

kyan should be a fucking policy lynch at this point.

wat

whyyy

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

DAY 2 CURRENT VOTE TALLY:

Kyanrute (2)
TheExodu5 1066
Poltergust 1074

Bowlie (1)
Palmer_v1 1088

ultron87 (1)
squidyj 1041

Poltergust (1)
hey_monkey 1043

BlackBuzzard (1)
cabot 1052

hey_monkey (1)
Swamped 1105

Swamped (0): cabot 1042 1052

No active vote for Day 2: 30yearsofhurt, BlackBuzzard, Bowlie, Cewyn, Dusk Soldier, Haly, hatmoza, Kyanrute, oreomunsta, rac, StanleyPalmtree, ultron87, WhereAreMahDragonz

Day 2 Postcount: 30yearsofhurt 1, BlackBuzzard 0, Bowlie 1, cabot 15, Cewyn 0, Dusk Soldier 7, Haly 5, hatmoza 0, hey_monkey 10, Kyanrute 8, oreomunsta 0, Palmer_v1 2, Poltergust 6, rac 1, squidyj 6, StanleyPalmtree 0, Swamped 5, TheExodu5 6, ultron87 4, WhereAreMahDragonz 5


Day 2 ends:

Automated vote tally here

11 votes for majority

 

[Poltergust]

There is so much wrong with this post, but it has convinced me that Poltergust is probably town. Firstly, I personally hardly registered a Kyan/Polter connection. Sure Polter was suspicious of him and voted for him but town tunnels all the time. I highly highly doubt scum would have killed Kyan for this reason. In fact, many people were low-key suspicious of him D1 so it was in their best interest to keep in around, and possibly push him. But townies sometimes get this persecution complex, they only see the game from their narrow POV and I really think that's what's happening in Polter's post. Polter - I still want to know your opinion of Squidy (but if you already discussed it please link me I missed it).

Well, my opinion, like most other people's, was to wait and see what happened going into Day 2.

And... nothing happened. squidyj is not even making any mention of being a cop now.

To be honest, I'm not sure what to make of it. It makes the targeting of SkyOdin even weirder.

 

[TheExodu5]

Got the day 1 posts altogether...I think.

When I caught up, I did speed up my reading quite a bit during the latter part of the day. Kyan did have one page of reads that I missed among the rest of the shitposts, so there's that.

Anyways, I need to sleep on it.

~kyaaaaa~

1st i'd like to mention that gorlak's read on the events of gafia three are absolutely wrong and totally not anime at all. obviously what transpired was that even after being separated by the monster with a million yosukes, we broke the barrier of separation via the amazing banana what in some ninsensical anime way was a metaphor about our love that transcends even all of space and time. that gave us courage and hugs and warm feelings and then we both won and happily ever after. now that is anime.

and yes cabot i can see you writing that, here, let me do it for you

"pregaming after the game started, cool. have anything relevant to say?"

stole your post nanananaaa

~kyaaaaa~



Hi.



*blushes*

that's all who were into kyaaa wow. such attention much wow. the dragonz obligatory kyaaa is scum teehee, reaction baiter?

why can't ppl mention me more, the lack of mentions actually forces me to read the thread uuuurgh

kyaaa



ok imma like this is a joke reaction baiter and such. could be dank gambits too from meanies but eeeeeeh. dunno!



gustie is playing the newbie very hard, nothing that incriminating imo, as long as the play keeps going til the end of the game.



since i thinks "imma the law" is jokes, this seems to go lil too deep imo. does super dragonz detective who looks over every detail match the rest of her content? hmm.



online? have ya played mafia offline then?



reaaaaaally newbish or extremely filler-y.







we can't do anything until we have something concrete, eh. disagree, as that magical point of concrete might never even come (beyond lynched ppl getting revealed). gives the newbie vibes too but also reeks of scum.



really digging that newbie hole. if you is of valuable town asset, you is of engaging self defense.



change of behavior, sure. the joke, naaaah.



i don't see this. feels fake. scummy too.



palmer too seems to be thinking of gambits. takes it more seriously than dragonz i think?



an another bit of speculation. notable part is that everything is speculated about to cover them bases. scum or a super anime analyst professor type? hmm.



silly no lynchers. is no good line of thinkings. all these newbie feels make it hard to pinpoint which of the bunch is an actual meanie and who is not grr.



nice noise. superb filler. i'd reward some shitpostpoints but all this lead was a bunch of filler so no points for you.

stan for top anime #gutfeels

i also like zubz so i think he is scum because i am bad at reads

a shipper is a person who makes ships

is very a, kawaii yes

hmm haven't done this in a while

i am ordinary town

when worded like that it feels like scum going for the arrogant play

i've done that in the past as a meanie at least

need to read to see if it feels like that

im somewhat suspicious about the fact that ppl manage to form a read about me

there is like a single post that ain't a shitpost

straaaaange

on a quick read zubz felt very inoffensive and warm and friendly and fluffy what made me like him!

on a deeper read (reading the posts he made before my comment about him) he explains things a lot and speculates about mechanics! fluffy! scum!

the rest of zubz does not fill kyaaa with feels of warmth either!

decadesofpain keeps true to his character and still does not think we cannot do anything before space power role jesus-kun comes to save us all. gievs the deets why he feels like this. but still, this is lazy at best and scummy at worst. we can do nono must trust in power role magic is a ez card to play on d1.

but yeah, 30, let's assume the lynch today gives little info and the nk as well is rather boring. in that case, will you continue to sing your song tomorrow as well?

owned by a double negative.

see im not scum i do not press preview post before posting!

the fact that poltergust has played mafia before gives bit of a scummy shade to his newbie tells.

dusk hmm. a bunch of dusk things. #571's "pls be of murderereings" i like. but otherwise ehh. someone, might've been monkey, pointed out that duskie is focusing on specific things, i'd agree with that.

rac feels very inoffensive. veeeery inoffensive. suspicious. polter vote very ez. worth revisiting him after the chaos (that is yet to come obv.) imo.

kyan fanclubTM (c) has a open admission policy. please contact your local kyan fanclubTM (c) admission office for admission into kyan fanclubTM (c).

can ya name these matters and why they feel concerning to you?

blackbuzzard hmmmmm. don't fancy the push for 30 in general. the justification is kk ofc and i know of at least one case in gafia where a scum played the no lynch / rely on prs / a slight presence in general -card on day one so that ain't an impossible idea at all. but man it is a ez kill for scummies to jump on when the person in question ain't even present to defend themselves.

in the previous episodes there was the strange theory about dragonz and squid that felt fake to me. hmmm.

cabot's staunch defense of dragonz is notable. not that there is anything wrong with his arguments (i for one agree with them) but still, notable.

In the original post you mentioned that you had some unspecified concerns that you were willing to put down a vote on. Now it seems like you are thinking that those concerns are not worth of votes. Assuming I read this correctly, what changed and who is worthy of your vote right now?

You were the 1st to mention Cewyn, the list was posted after that.

waaa someone mentions a thing in the case they are wrong waaa

The expected answer. Not enough to antagonize you further I guess, just food for future thoughts should you become suspicious.

VOTE: Zubz

BB is an alternative at least.

ok scum now is time for you to move votes to two town candidates so you can just lololol the day end

but since that is such an obvious move, imo you should wait because im sure town will do that anyway for you

I'll invoke the "it is hidden in my previous posts" -clause here.

haly you are really confusing me with that vote count. why is my zubz vote separate lol.

And dragonz you typoed the vote.

ok this is getting comical now

oh no people are voting

when they are supposed to be voting

oh no

View it as deflection if you like. Was not deflection though.

man this voting shit is fun

vote needs to be on a separate line lololol

this teasing maaaaaaan

will i get a train or will i not

pls no, not a bright idea really at this point

might wanna save the discussion for tomorrow when there actually is time to consider things instead of doing the yolo train switch 15 minutes to the clock.

yeah get them votes in

good good

for the record ive never died on d1

well i was supposed to once but something something magic happened

Duskie, the actual reasoning behind "the strongest scum read". Thanks.

hello i am sense and this makes none

oh it was me who had the hidden chat with dusk

gotcha, thanks

ok

well

you are like

completely wrong

but ok

 

[TheExodu5]

Oh, and the 50/50 shitpost ratio doesn't say much when your non-shitposts were spammed all after each other and could have been a single post. Just saying man, those posts are annoying as hell and just distract from meaningful posts. -_-

 

[squidyj]

Well, my opinion, like most other people's, was to wait and see what happened going into Day 2.

And... nothing happened. squidyj is not even making any mention of being a cop now.

To be honest, I'm not sure what to make of it. It makes the targeting of SkyOdin even weirder.

Oh I am definitely a cop. don't worry about that.

 

[hey_monkey]

Okay, I'll address all this more thoroughly in a bit (I'm eating a very late dinner, finally) but I am legitimately puzzled why not being certain on anyone on day 2 when we're down three town is a sign of scumminess? I have some strong feelings but I cannot say with certainty that anyone is anything. I don't understand why it would make you feel better if I said KYANRUTE IS DEFINITELY SCUM. THERE IS ZERO DOUBT THAT KYANRUTE IS SCUM. Or if I said POLTERGUST IS BEING WEIRD. ABSOLUTELY SCUM. Of course there's some doubt at this point.

I mean, real talk. Town's off to a bad start. I'm worried about losing two more. Why is standing firm on someone then the better position?

 

[hey_monkey]

First - I’m a her, not a him. >< If you’re gonna accuse me, can we at least get that right?

Palmer, you’ve voted for several people. Why aren’t you wishy-washy? You said you felt cabot was a clear town (and I lean the same, for the record) - but cabot’s voted someone new in a dozen posts! It looks like a strategy to me - to put pressure on people - but why isn’t it wishy-washy to you? Why am I wrong for taking a different approach?

I actually agreed with you on Bowlie while talking to SkyOdin:

I do like Palmer's reasoning on Bowlie above, too. But I also wonder if Bowlie was just a cop-out due to real life niece issues. You?

The hedge was because even though I agree that Bowlie wasted a vote for dumb reasons, he wasn’t very active due to assumed life reasons. I don’t remember who said it, but it was mentioned that absences with stated reasons were kinda treated like the honor system was in place. That makes sense to me. If Bowlie continues to make poor decisions that are not in town’s interest, I too would lean scum. But I don’t see the reason right now myself.

I also said this, which I guess you’d read as wishy-washy:

Ugh, I almost edited! I didn't mean Bowlie was a copout for Palmer but rather if Bowlie was too caught up in playing with niece to really pay attention to all the drama a Sparks vote would surely cause. Like that's a trap I don't think someone would have stepped in otherwise - unless it is a ploy. That one is a pendulum - there's no middle ground with Bowlie's vote. It's either ploy or oops.

It’s pretty ill-written and unclear, tbh, but what I was saying was that it felt like a dumb move for scum, but maybe it was a ploy - the same kind of analysis I offered on squidy’s cop claim - the either/or. This is actually me being consistent in approach. I’m trying to use limited information to figure out why someone would do a thing.

I mentioned later, too, that I did not agree with Bowlie’s vote and that while I felt like some of the newbies might be making questionable choices for past experience reasons, that Bowlie should have known better.

So I’m not sure how I’m defending Bowlie at all. If you want me to state something with certainty: I do not defend Bowlie’s vote for Sparks. It was dumb and wasteful, even if I can fathom some potential motivation. Trying to understand motivation is not a defense. Shouldn’t it be a tool to find scum?

Some of the things you pulled out and quoted on me too, I’m gonna address more thoroughly. Quoting Palmer quoting me:

Originally Posted by hey_monkey
monkey >> I feel very strongly about Dusk Soldier but it looks like there is a contingent that is going to move for 30yearsofhurt. Dusk, for me, has been too specifically aggressive on some points and totally ignores argument/critique of it; I am not the only one to voice suspicion and he's just not engaging with it. That reads scum to me. I do like Palmer's reasoning on Bowlie above, too. But I also wonder if Bowlie was just a cop-out due to real life niece issues. You? << monkey done

Palmer >> i kinda think monkey is scum as well. Does a lot of this type of posting where they don't actually commit to much of a stance, while trying to leave multiple outs. Also, this is admittedly based on only a single game of liva mafia, but monkey had a habit of jumping in to offer explanations for their scum teammates. <<Palmer done

Same one as above but I’m gonna address it differently. I was asked if I suspected anyone. I reported suspicions. Honestly, again, how is it a better play if I lie and say “these people are scum for sure”?

Already addressed your declaration that I’m making excuses for Bowlie. I’ll cop to not having written that super clearly, but it was an ongoing thread about people being away. I do not defend Bowlie’s vote. At all.

You quoted BlackBuzzard being noncommittal re: Dragonz. I was, too. It didn’t seem productive day 1. I stand by that. I suspect her, but I thought there were better choices to make. So did a lot of people, apparently.

You quoted me again saying I’m giving excuses. I mean, I guess? I addressed this in the earlier post. All I have right now are suspicions. I don’t really know what else to say on this. It’s just not even something I would have considered an issue.

You said in this post as you were moving through the list that people who voted for Zubz were concerning. I agree that the Zubz voters bear watching. I said that when they were happening, too. I’m not flipping here. That’s my top suspicion right now. And speaking of, you then say that SkyOdin’s vote makes it maybe NOT suspicious. How is that not wishy-washy but I am? I didn’t agree with SkyOdin’s Z vote but I understood it. I felt the others offered less-convincing reasons. Thus I found their determination suspicious when there was other weird behavior going on.

And then I want to say hmm, interesting when you offer your reasons for then thinking that all the Zubz voters may be clear, but if I do that, I’m wishy-washy. But shouldn’t we talk and try to convince each other? Like… isn’t that the point of conversing and offering reads and pointing things out? You use my post about the Zubz votes as further proof that I’m scum somehow when you just went through that progression yourself. To quote you earlier… the FUCK? Why is it in town's interest for you to work through stuff but not for me?

Is your progression in town's interest?

Finally: you said I defended people in lifeMaf. Actually, I tried not to defend batsnacks because I felt like he was being obvious by calling for Sophia to be lynched over and over. So that wasn't my scum strategy. My "strategy" was mostly "oh shit uh let me vote for people who are not bats and hope bats can defend in Thunderdome and then I'll try to deflect."

 

[hatmoza]

Poor Sky, always dying early...

I don't get why Sky is such an odd kill? He was very active during D1 and was mostly town-read by everyone. I certainly would have targeted him.

Exactly. He was the strongest town read I got day 1 and I'm not at the least surprised he was targeted.

On that subject. Poltergust's "over curiosity" about skyodin being targetted is giving me scum vibes.

FoS Poltergust

 

[hatmoza]

That's fair. I have never watched or read Bleach and I have never been in a game with neutral roles, so that's not something I'm fit to judge.

I'm gonna join y'all in getting this party started:

Vote: Poltergust

Can you elaborate why? He's also one of my suspects.

 

[hey_monkey]

Can you elaborate why? He's also one of my suspects.

Felt like he was focusing in some weird ways day one, fixating on small details, creating some narratives and then not really letting go, making some strange votes and calls even after getting advice to the contrary. Could be newbie behavior. But now that town's down three, I think we should put pressure on suspects and see what happens.

 

[hatmoza]

That's fair. I have never watched or read Bleach and I have never been in a game with neutral roles, so that's not something I'm fit to judge.

I'm gonna join y'all in getting this party started:

Vote: Poltergust

Alright. Caught up and good to go (for the most part).

Reading over the votes, I immediately thought kyan and Ultron were both scum. Ultron was under the gun and kyan got the ball rolling on another vote, being careful to not be the first to vote. That being said, the fact that scum killed SkyOdin is incredibly puzzling, since it narrows down the list and actually puts more suspicion on kyan. I don't think scum would want that...but newbie scum may not have thought it through.

Still not sure what went on with Dusk's secret chat shenanigans. There's an alterior motive at work there and I can't figure out what it is.

And then there's squidy. I thought he may be a commuter baiting a kill, but then the commuter winded up dead. Either he's town baiting for responses, or it's a scum/neutral gambit of some kind. In any case, I feel like a dead commuter puts more suspicion on him at this point.

Let me just go on record saying that everyone who claims to be "curious" or "puzzled" about a night 1 target is automatically on my scum list. Period.

 

[hatmoza]

I'm getting deja vu because I was once an odd-night commuter baiting a kill and I was in the same game as squidy back then, our first game, those halcyon days, so now I realize squidy could be, well, an even-night commuter trying the same bait.

So I think that makes him town-ish as well.

Or maybe he's just a cop ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

I don't know about his previous record, but Squidy came off as naive to me early this game and I was almost too quick to write him off as a shitposter. But his efforts are making me convinced he's at the very least vanilla town.

 

[Palmer_v1]

Not a fan of the posting style. Same as blarg, I consider him a wildcard that will just muddy the waters under any circumstance. I think it's random and chaotic and makes it easy for a scum to get by without saying much of anything and just confusing.

Also, I think there are 2 distinct possibilities:

1) There are 2 scum on the zabz vote: kyan and ultron
2) There are no scum on the zabz vote

I wouldn't mind an outcome that narrows this down, since it either absolves or implicated 2 people.

The main question I have on my mind is: why would scum kill someone that voted out town? If there is scum on the vote, it only narrows things down and gives us a better chance of lynching scum. Could be intentional reverse psychology, could be a mistake by a newbie scum team, could be simply because SkyOdin was too good of a target regardless.

I don't know about Kyan, but I'm fairly certain Ultron is not scum. He MIGHT be neutral, but I doubt that as well. Kyan, I have no idea. Unlike a lot of people, he at least had a fucking useful vote out at the end of the day. Actions speak louder than words...

Well, I already gave my personal reasons why, but to add onto my earlier post:

1) Kyanrute hasn't contributed much of anything to the discussion. He's basically just popping in, saying something random or bare-bones (sometimes for a few posts in succession), then leaving before anyone can have a discussion with him.

2) He was on the list of people who lynched Zubz. This is, well, pretty self-explanatory.



?

Nomadic was modkilled because of his ban (most likely, anyways). He seemed to have always been town, and no one replaced him.

Ironically, if we voted to lynch Nomadic we'd currently have one more townsperson alive now, but no one could have predicted the modkilling.

It's the same as the sloth for me. Shitposters are the ones that lose games for town, and that aggravates me, but I can see far clearer scum behavior in this game right now.

the fuck is this shit right here?

kyan should be a fucking policy lynch at this point.

Eh, we'd have to policy lynch several people if this was our criteria, and as far as I know, GAFia is still too scared to do that.

Okay, I'll address all this more thoroughly in a bit (I'm eating a very late dinner, finally) but I am legitimately puzzled why not being certain on anyone on day 2 when we're down three town is a sign of scumminess? I have some strong feelings but I cannot say with certainty that anyone is anything. I don't understand why it would make you feel better if I said KYANRUTE IS DEFINITELY SCUM. THERE IS ZERO DOUBT THAT KYANRUTE IS SCUM. Or if I said POLTERGUST IS BEING WEIRD. ABSOLUTELY SCUM. Of course there's some doubt at this point.

I mean, real talk. Town's off to a bad start. I'm worried about losing two more. Why is standing firm on someone then the better position?

First - I’m a her, not a him. >< If you’re gonna accuse me, can we at least get that right?

Palmer, you’ve voted for several people. Why aren’t you wishy-washy? You said you felt cabot was a clear town (and I lean the same, for the record) - but cabot’s voted someone new in a dozen posts! It looks like a strategy to me - to put pressure on people - but why isn’t it wishy-washy to you? Why am I wrong for taking a different approach?

I actually agreed with you on Bowlie while talking to SkyOdin:



The hedge was because even though I agree that Bowlie wasted a vote for dumb reasons, he wasn’t very active due to assumed life reasons. I don’t remember who said it, but it was mentioned that absences with stated reasons were kinda treated like the honor system was in place. That makes sense to me. If Bowlie continues to make poor decisions that are not in town’s interest, I too would lean scum. But I don’t see the reason right now myself.

I also said this, which I guess you’d read as wishy-washy:



It’s pretty ill-written and unclear, tbh, but what I was saying was that it felt like a dumb move for scum, but maybe it was a ploy - the same kind of analysis I offered on squidy’s cop claim - the either/or. This is actually me being consistent in approach. I’m trying to use limited information to figure out why someone would do a thing.

I mentioned later, too, that I did not agree with Bowlie’s vote and that while I felt like some of the newbies might be making questionable choices for past experience reasons, that Bowlie should have known better.

So I’m not sure how I’m defending Bowlie at all. If you want me to state something with certainty: I do not defend Bowlie’s vote for Sparks. It was dumb and wasteful, even if I can fathom some potential motivation. Trying to understand motivation is not a defense. Shouldn’t it be a tool to find scum?

Some of the things you pulled out and quoted on me too, I’m gonna address more thoroughly. Quoting Palmer quoting me:



Same one as above but I’m gonna address it differently. I was asked if I suspected anyone. I reported suspicions. Honestly, again, how is it a better play if I lie and say “these people are scum for sure”?

Already addressed your declaration that I’m making excuses for Bowlie. I’ll cop to not having written that super clearly, but it was an ongoing thread about people being away. I do not defend Bowlie’s vote. At all.

You quoted BlackBuzzard being noncommittal re: Dragonz. I was, too. It didn’t seem productive day 1. I stand by that. I suspect her, but I thought there were better choices to make. So did a lot of people, apparently.

You quoted me again saying I’m giving excuses. I mean, I guess? I addressed this in the earlier post. All I have right now are suspicions. I don’t really know what else to say on this. It’s just not even something I would have considered an issue.

You said in this post as you were moving through the list that people who voted for Zubz were concerning. I agree that the Zubz voters bear watching. I said that when they were happening, too. I’m not flipping here. That’s my top suspicion right now. And speaking of, you then say that SkyOdin’s vote makes it maybe NOT suspicious. How is that not wishy-washy but I am? I didn’t agree with SkyOdin’s Z vote but I understood it. I felt the others offered less-convincing reasons. Thus I found their determination suspicious when there was other weird behavior going on.

And then I want to say hmm, interesting when you offer your reasons for then thinking that all the Zubz voters may be clear, but if I do that, I’m wishy-washy. But shouldn’t we talk and try to convince each other? Like… isn’t that the point of conversing and offering reads and pointing things out? You use my post about the Zubz votes as further proof that I’m scum somehow when you just went through that progression yourself. To quote you earlier… the FUCK? Why is it in town's interest for you to work through stuff but not for me?

Is your progression in town's interest?

Finally: you said I defended people in lifeMaf. Actually, I tried not to defend batsnacks because I felt like he was being obvious by calling for Sophia to be lynched over and over. So that wasn't my scum strategy. My "strategy" was mostly "oh shit uh let me vote for people who are not bats and hope bats can defend in Thunderdome and then I'll try to deflect."

Sorry about the pronoun! No offense meant.

The difference in a lot of what you're talking about is that they(and I) put actual votes into play. That's concrete intent that I can look back at later on. Anything less is just hedging your bets. If you want to make a case against someone you suspect, do what i just did and go back and quote anything that supports your case. It's also exacerbated the later in the day phase it is. If you're still wishy washy an hour before lynch time, that's kind of a problem, cause scum can more easily manipulate you.

Overall, I still believe Bowlie is the biggest problem right now though.

 

[hey_monkey]

Let me just go on record saying that everyone who claims to be "curious" or "puzzled" about a night 1 target is automatically on my scum list. Period.

Can I ask why? I just really don't get this kind of strategy. Basically it strikes me as saying "people who don't play like I do are scum, period." Am I missing something?

I'm legit befuddled by half the posts today.

Yeah, some people pointed out why Sky was a good kill. I listened. Now I agree. I wondered at first why Sky and not one of the other choices. Several would have caused chaos and reactions. But if people don't immediately all come to the same conclusions, they're scum?

 

[hatmoza]

Since the wagon was (presumably) town v. town, the scum team was likely sitting on their votes. The players that didn't move their votes around the last hour are the most suspicious right now.

However, this line of thinking has burned me in the past so I can't really rule anyone out.

Another "curious" person...

That aside your opinion of scum players sitting on their votes is a good one. I would only disagree that in early days, scum will probably not want to move their votes around in the finals hours for fear of bringing unwanted attention to their votes. Then again maybe the dynamics of mafia on GAF are much different than I'm familiar with. If I were to look at things at the same basis you do, I would say look for the people who didn't switch up their votes much OR never placed a vote.

I realize I'm in the latter, but I had my reasons not to vote.

 

[hey_monkey]

Sorry about the pronoun! No offense meant.

The difference in a lot of what you're talking about is that they(and I) put actual votes into play. That's concrete intent that I can look back at later on. Anything less is just hedging your bets. If you want to make a case against someone you suspect, do what i just did and go back and quote anything that supports your case. It's also exacerbated the later in the day phase it is. If you're still wishy washy an hour before lynch time, that's kind of a problem, cause scum can more easily manipulate you.

Overall, I still believe Bowlie is the biggest problem right now though.

I'm more offended you think I'm scum! (&#12494;Ò&#30410;Ó)&#12494;&#24417;&#9620;&#9620;&#9615;

But you're right. And if I'm reading and listening and weighing down to the wire, yeah, I might be more susceptible. I can understand that position. But I do think part of it is just different play styles. I'm not used to playing online - which means I'm only used to making a formal vote at the end. Here, they're used as a tool. I'm much more used to saying "wellllll, what about cabot tho?" to try to win people over on those votes.

So I'd say gimme a sec to adjust, but I guess I just took away Polter's second to adjust so... I get what I get.

 

[Palmer_v1]

And then I want to say hmm, interesting when you offer your reasons for then thinking that all the Zubz voters may be clear, but if I do that, I’m wishy-washy. But shouldn’t we talk and try to convince each other? Like… isn’t that the point of conversing and offering reads and pointing things out? You use my post about the Zubz votes as further proof that I’m scum somehow when you just went through that progression yourself. To quote you earlier… the FUCK? Why is it in town's interest for you to work through stuff but not for me?

Is your progression in town's interest?

Sorry, skipped over your actual questions.

My long post was me going through and quoting everything I wanted to look at, then typing thoughts as I went. So at the point that Zubz flipped town, I was certainly interested in watching the voters, but once one of the voters died, it became far less likely that we had scum in that list. It is absolutely in town's interest for both of us to do research and make our cases. The difference is you seem far more reactive than proactive, which is a scum thing.

It's up to town to decide my worth. Best thing a townie can do is keep scum hunting, even if they're on their way out.

Oh, I'm also just remembering that you tried to bring Lovers up again! Unless you're claiming something, which might be a bad idea, we're just spinning our wheels on it. That's totally shit I do when I'm scum.

 

[hatmoza]

Can I ask why? I just really don't get this kind of strategy. Basically it strikes me as saying "people who don't play like I do are scum, period." Am I missing something?

I'm legit befuddled by half the posts today.

Yeah, some people pointed out why Sky was a good kill. I listened. Now I agree. I wondered at first why Sky and not one of the other choices. Several would have caused chaos and reactions. But if people don't immediately all come to the same conclusions, they're scum?

Still catching up.

It's good to question the reasons why something happened or why an action was taken. Don't get me wrong. But I'm seeing it as a potential method of distraction and spreading suspicion early in the game. A confused town is a weak town. Smart scum will try to influence us with false opinions. Dwelling on something too much when we have relatively little to go on is giving me the wrong vibes.

I would like to revisit the reasons for many things as new info is presented.

To put it bluntly, it comes off as over acting, and trying to appear as genuine town.

Hope that answers your questions. Don't assume I want everyone to play a certain way. I have the right to suspect whoever I want.

 

[Palmer_v1]

Another "curious" person...

That aside your opinion of scum players sitting on their votes is a good one. I would only disagree that in early days, scum will probably not want to move their votes around in the finals hours for fear of bringing unwanted attention to their votes. Then again maybe the dynamics of mafia on GAF are much different than I'm familiar with. If I were to look at things at the same basis you do, I would say look for the people who didn't switch up their votes much OR never placed a vote.

I realize I'm in the latter, but I had my reasons not to vote.

FWIW, this day end was fairly mundane by GAFia standards. People often manufacture like 6 vote swings in the final minutes.

 

[hey_monkey]

Oh, I'm also just remembering that you tried to bring Lovers up again! Unless you're claiming something, which might be a bad idea, we're just spinning our wheels on it. That's totally shit I do when I'm scum.

Brought it up because I said I would - I didn't want to get in the way of the end of the first day. Don't have anything else to say about it.

Still catching up.

It's good to question the reasons why something happened or why an action was taken. Don't get me wrong. But I'm seeing it as a potential method of distraction and spreading suspicion early in the game. A confused town is a weak town. Smart scum will try to influence us with false opinions. Dwelling on something too much when we have relatively little to go on is giving me the wrong vibes.

I would like to revisit the reasons for many things as new info is presented.

To put it bluntly, it comes off as over acting, and trying to appear as genuine town.

Hope that answers your questions. Don't assume I want everyone to play a certain way. I have the right to suspect whoever I want.

 

[hey_monkey]

OH GODDAMMIT I HIT POST.

sigh. edits.

hatmoza: I can see that. But in this case we did have some factioning around a couple of players who hadn't been among the most active. Felt like reasons getting manufactured on both sides. I figure it's not the worst thing to explore that. But we've got to move onward, too.

I think we're not gonna see many more new people for the next few hours, just those of us who've been back and forth. Am interested in seeing the folks who haven't much posted yet in day 2, especially those who weren't as active in day one.

 

[squidyj]

I don't know about Kyan, but I'm fairly certain Ultron is not scum. He MIGHT be neutral, but I doubt that as well. Kyan, I have no idea. Unlike a lot of people, he at least had a fucking useful vote out at the end of the day. Actions speak louder than words...

what on gods green earth actually makes you think that boy is town? that boy's not right! he's not right!

 

[cabot]

Why is scum unlikely for ultron? Seems like a well tooled power for scum.

I just don't think it seems relevant. Ultron hasn't said anything (and shouldn't currently) but the only way I could see this being useful for scum is at end game, mylo or lylo. I suspect there may be a condition to stop it in lylo. Otherwise it's not particularly useful.

The role could verge on Bastard, depending on how it works. Is his vote going to have some sort of public record? if not, that's hiding information from the players which is Bastard.

Someone asked why is ultron alive but I think its pretty clear, at the early stage of the game it's fairly weak as a power. It becomes stronger as he gets to endgame. If he's not scum, then he's not going to be here at endgame. That's what I expect.

There is so much wrong with this post, but it has convinced me that Poltergust is probably town. Firstly, I personally hardly registered a Kyan/Polter connection. Sure Polter was suspicious of him and voted for him but town tunnels all the time. I highly highly doubt scum would have killed Kyan for this reason. In fact, many people were low-key suspicious of him D1 so it was in their best interest to keep in around, and possibly push him. But townies sometimes get this persecution complex, they only see the game from their narrow POV and I really think that's what's happening in Polter's post. Polter - I still want to know your opinion of Squidy (but if you already discussed it please link me I missed it).



There's just something about this Monkey post that doesn't sit right with me, and paired with Palmer's excellent post that I quoted below, I'm leaning more gaijin on her. Cabot - hope that answers your question.



Have you really read through all Kyan's posts? He has contributed quite a bit I feel. Whether he is town or gaijin I don't know (but I'm leaning town). This reason for shade on Kyan is really unconvincing and I'm seeing you in more of a gaijin light now.



I really really like this Palmer post. It highlights exactly what I always want to look for, and way better that I ever could have: WISHY-WASHY-NESS. This really is the epitome of scum behaviour.

VOTE: hey_monkey

I follow your logic on your Poltergust read. I now differ in opinion between you and Palmer on monkey.

This is her first game, it isn't easy to go all in on hard stances in the beginning. I know I was a lot more ponderous on things back in Archer (and I had a moderator mistake to aid my town read). It took me a few games to be the player that I am today. Always wrong, tunneling poor innocents, but doing it with conviction.

Well, my opinion, like most other people's, was to wait and see what happened going into Day 2.

And... nothing happened. squidyj is not even making any mention of being a cop now.

To be honest, I'm not sure what to make of it. It makes the targeting of SkyOdin even weirder.

Why? A cop claim is gonna have protective roles hitting that action, and ultron was the only other claim, which in comparison to a cop isn't very good (sorry buddy).

Scum not targetting squidy last night was fairly obvious to me

1) Protective roles would circle the cop claim
2) Investigation roles would circle the cop claim
3) Leaving him alive raises a little suspicion considering the cop claim

Got the day 1 posts altogether...I think.

When I caught up, I did speed up my reading quite a bit during the latter part of the day. Kyan did have one page of reads that I missed among the rest of the shitposts, so there's that.

Anyways, I need to sleep on it.

Do you read Kyan as scum? cause it just feels like your punishing his play right now.

This is a roast, right?

Oh, and the 50/50 shitpost ratio doesn't say much when your non-shitposts were spammed all after each other and could have been a single post. Just saying man, those posts are annoying as hell and just distract from meaningful posts. -_-

Again, I feel you're using his posting style as a getout clause to lynch him. It feels like 'Oh man his play is totes annoyz and I want him dead. Oh, uh, he may also be scum!'

Okay, I'll address all this more thoroughly in a bit (I'm eating a very late dinner, finally) but I am legitimately puzzled why not being certain on anyone on day 2 when we're down three town is a sign of scumminess? I have some strong feelings but I cannot say with certainty that anyone is anything. I don't understand why it would make you feel better if I said KYANRUTE IS DEFINITELY SCUM. THERE IS ZERO DOUBT THAT KYANRUTE IS SCUM. Or if I said POLTERGUST IS BEING WEIRD. ABSOLUTELY SCUM. Of course there's some doubt at this point.

I mean, real talk. Town's off to a bad start. I'm worried about losing two more. Why is standing firm on someone then the better position?

re: real talk. The mentality is if you're Town, you're one of a bigger team, but you don't know who your mates are, so you should be fairly ballsy in your actions since you can't fully trust someone (unless their dead)

Worrying about losing people is something that goes away with constant beautiful death. This game centres around death, you're gonna lose players. Who you lose (or don't) is important information to form conclusions from.

I don't like the last sentence in your post much, tone is generally harder to bank on for alignment, but scum's job is to bring the game down in morale so it feels hopeless. Yeah, it's not been a great start, but there's a wealth of information from the three kills. Chin up, my friend. The game is still young, relatively large and so far we only have one killer roaming the streets.


Trust me it could be a lot worse.

 

[cabot]

I think I'm just going to go with the simplest explanation...I tend to overthink things. -_-

kyan got the ball rolling to save ultron. Ultron is being truthful about his role, but it's scum aligned...I feel like that power simply makes more sense as a scum power than a town power.

Vote: kyanrute

Then why not cut out the middle man and just vote for Ultron?

I must say I have to agree, you're lynching the guy who may be scum based on an assumption made with another guy who you think is scum?

Occam's pain.

1)Long post catching up on the end of day and start of day shenanigans. Most important thing though:

Vote: Bowlie

I really think Bowlie is scum based on this copout that they stuck to for the rest of the phase while everyone gave them a pass.




2)Assuming you weren't serious, but please clarify if you are.





3)I gotta look back at him more specifically, but please add more if you can.

1) Your case on Bowlie is reasonable, I can't argue too much with it. I posted my feelings on Monkey, while I agree theres a lot of pondering and lack of hard stances. I'm townreading that from a newb stance.

2) I wasn't serious.

3) I dunno, on the one hand he voted ultron out of nowhere (giving a reason when asked, but I didn't like the suddeness of it) and then sort of brought a tie back into contention close to deadline.

The thing is that's sort of where it ends, if Zubz flipped scum I'd be a lot more suspect that scum!BB was trying to force a tie to save his scum buddy. A town flip removes that logic. What's left? scum!BB adding to the ultron wagon who we do not know the alignment of, but I'm still leaning non-scum than scum on him.

 

[cabot]

One thing I know after asking via PM is that my dead vote will count towards majority for early day end purposes, but it won't appear in in-thread vote counts. And I can change it via PM as much as I want during the day.

This is the part of the claim that I am having trouble with, as far as I'm concerned that's hiding standard game mechanic information from the players, which I consider Bastard.

 

[Dusk Soldier]

Bastard or not Cabot, this game has a twilight phase.

23. Some roles take place between the end of the Day Phase and the start of the Night Phase, so game-runners may allow a short period of time for this "Twilight Phase". Unless your role PM explicitly allows you to do otherwise, do not post during the Twilight Phase.

A twilight phase means there are absolutely abilities in play designed to secretly manipulate the day end result. If scum has a twilight-based killing ability for instance, they could have killed Nomadic-kun with it since they knew we would all assume his death had something to do with his ban.

 

[Dusk Soldier]

This Kyanrute defense force is also suspicious. Too many players (i.e Cabot, hatmoza-kun, dragon-chan) arguing against his lynch without so much as offering up an alternative.

Scum team can't be this obvious can it?

 

[cabot]

Not as obvious as your lie.


I've not argued against a Kyan lynch.

 

[cabot]

Those rules are generic across all games, Dusk.

Not that it's relevant. Twilight is different to vote counts, which are a specific behaviour.


In previous games where votes were affected by abilities, it was shown in the vote count.

Ultron is saying theres no way of knowing about his vote until flip.

 

[TheExodu5]

Let me just go on record saying that everyone who claims to be "curious" or "puzzled" about a night 1 target is automatically on my scum list. Period.

And why is that? It IS a puzzling kill because scum don't usually night kill a previous night's lyncher. I think we should at least consider this much. I'm surprised people seem to be ignoring this.

 

[TheExodu5]

I do read kyan as scum, and I believe he implicates ultron through the vote. Truth be told, I am using his posting style to lynch him over ultron. I also think it's better to leave ultron for second in case I'm wrong, since we'd be lynching a power role.

I feel like this is how things went down:

- Ultron on the chopping block as the only real lynch candidate.
- Kyan jumps on one of the 1 votes...Zubz. That leads to Zubz eventually getting lynched.

At this point, I feel like sky, kyan, and ultron are immediate suspects.

- SkyOdin gets night killed.

I feel like this was a deliberate ploy to throw us off. We think that there's no way that scum would kill one of the 5 lynchers and narrow the list down for us, so we assume none of the lynchers were scum.

It seems like a fairly simple explanation for everything.

 

[Dusk Soldier]

Not as obvious as your lie.


I've not argued against a Kyan lynch.

You've questioned/commented on every single vote against kyanrute.

Did you really think no one would pick up on that?

 

[cabot]

You've questioned/commented on every single vote against kyanrute.

Did you really think no one would pick up on that?

Every single vote? there's only two votes on him.

Out of those two, I've commented specifically on Exo's because I have a problem with his logic/thought process on it.

 

[hey_monkey]

re: real talk. The mentality is if you're Town, you're one of a bigger team, but you don't know who your mates are, so you should be fairly ballsy in your actions since you can't fully trust someone (unless their dead)

Worrying about losing people is something that goes away with constant beautiful death. This game centres around death, you're gonna lose players. Who you lose (or don't) is important information to form conclusions from.

I don't like the last sentence in your post much, tone is generally harder to bank on for alignment, but scum's job is to bring the game down in morale so it feels hopeless. Yeah, it's not been a great start, but there's a wealth of information from the three kills. Chin up, my friend. The game is still young, relatively large and so far we only have one killer roaming the streets.

Trust me it could be a lot worse.

Thank you - this is helpful.

Appreciate the advice in general I got in the last many posts.

 

[cabot]

I feel like this is how things went down:

- Ultron on the chopping block as the only real lynch candidate.
- Kyan jumps on one of the 1 votes...Zubz. That leads to Zubz eventually getting lynched.

At this point, I feel like sky, kyan, and ultron are immediate suspects.

- SkyOdin gets night killed.

Brilliant, except that's not how it went down.


There were 4 in contention over the final real life day of D1.

Dragonz was the first lynch lead, then ultron and Zubz came in later. Stan was also in the running while Dragonz was leading. Kyan voted when it was ultron 3-2 Zubz. It was hardly a wagon he started out of nowhere.

There was no lead lynch candidate, it was a small group that eventually expanded towards day end.

 

[TheExodu5]

Brilliant, except that's not how it went down.


There were 4 in contention over the final real life day of D1.

Dragonz was the first lynch lead, then ultron and Zubz came in later. Stan was also in the running while Dragonz was leading. Kyan voted when it was ultron 3-2 Zubz. It was hardly a wagon he started out of nowhere.

There was no lead lynch candidate, it was a small group that eventually expanded towards day end.

No, Kyan voted at post 875 when it was Ultron 3 - Zubz 1. Everyone but Ultron was at 1.

 

[cabot]

ffs, I was going with Haly's vote tally around the time of it happening, which I now see contradicts yeeny's end of day final count.


Never do a game without a working vote tool.

 

[cabot]

While the order may be off in the way things developed, I disagree with the assessment that Ultron was the 'only real lynch candidate'

 

[Swamped]

Exodus - which other players are you suspicious of?

 

[TheExodu5]

Exodus - which other players are you suspicious of?

Not firmly on my scum list or anything, but the following is all of the suspicious behavior that stood out to me:

Squidy for the cop shenanigans as I've pointed out earlier. Thought he might be baiting a night kill but the commuter wounded up dead so that makes it more likely for him to be scum at this point.

Cabot for his defense of Kyan, and him being generally all over the place. I understand he's trying to put pressure through votes, but it feels like it's more for show than anything.

Dusk as a neutral maybe for his secret chat shenanigans. I still have no idea what happened there.

Bowlie for the vote on Nomadic Sparks.

Ultron assuming my kyan/ultron theory pans out.

My strongest town vibes are Palmer and Swamped. Insightful and well thought out posts.

 

[cabot]

Are you sure you and Dusk aren't in a hidden chat?


Is today's topic tell lies about cabot?


I've said nothing in Kyan's defense, I've questioned your vote on him which has rather ropey logic behind it. It's been entirely about you.



Also my votes are for show? this is always how I play. Please elaborate.

 

[cabot]

Not firmly on my scum list or anything, but the following is all of the suspicious behavior that stood out to me:

Squidy for the cop shenanigans as I've pointed out earlier. Thought he might be baiting a night kill but the commuter wounded up dead so that makes it more likely for him to be scum at this point.

Cabot for his defense of Kyan, and him being generally all over the place. I understand he's trying to put pressure through votes, but it feels like it's more for show than anything.

Dusk as a neutral maybe for his secret chat shenanigans. I still have no idea what happened there.

Bowlie for the vote on Nomadic Sparks.

Ultron assuming my kyan/ultron theory pans out.

My strongest town vibes are Palmer and Swamped. Insightful and well thought out posts.

Have you really read through all Kyan's posts? He has contributed quite a bit I feel. Whether he is town or gaijin I don't know (but I'm leaning town). This reason for shade on Kyan is really unconvincing and I'm seeing you in more of a gaijin light now.

Your logic here is about as consistent as everything else today.

 

[cabot]

I'd like BB to explain himself at day end.


I would also like Stan to offer some comments.