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[Frozenprince]

The Nation of Islam and other Black "Radicals" and "Extremists" were necessary because it made MLK look moderate, otherwise MLK would've been "Radical" and "Extremist". The worse they could label King was an "Agitator", but believe me they wanted to label him worse.

Preach.

 

[Psychoward]

Ridiculous thread title.

Thread reads like a continuation of this Onion headline:

The Onion headline is funny and works because the WSJ is a right leaning outlet yeah but compared to stuff like Coulter, Milo and Spencer? Doesn't even come close.

You also seem to be ignoring the history of friendship Coulter and Maher have.

 

[Lord Frieza]

��Slippery ��Slope

Funny, but it doesn't answer the question.

Milo is an all around asshole that had it coming. And it came. The details matter not.

Spencer is still active yes. But still being served knuckle sandwiches for free.

CONSEQUENCES. All of these fuckers have experienced consequences. We are ALL liable for the consequences. Jon Tron got his project cancelled, OReilly got cancelled, Milo got buried, Spencer's catching glittery right hooks.

That's all I'm saying. I will protect your right to bitch about their speech, as much as I'll protect their speech too. When speech becomes action, THEN, we riot. So far, WE struck first.

Lol, this is entirely a different perspective than what you were responding to in support of, you surely realize.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Huh? I don't get it where in the first amendment does it guarantee you speech anywhere you want again?

 

[Tarydax]

But knowledge beats them, it always will.

If that's true, why didn't you actually spend time educating GamerGators instead of banning them from your forums? After all, knowledge always wins, right?

Your complete lack of self-awareness is something else.

If you wanted to pontificate you didn't have to quote me since this is barely a response to what I said. Get the fuck over yourself.

I don't think he's capable of that.

I will say I'm mildly impressed by how he's still posting in this thread. Normally he just posts once and then runs away.

Dude. Dude.

Bless this post.

 

[Psychoward]

��Slippery ��Slope

Milo is an all around asshole that had it coming. And it came. The details matter not.

Spencer is still active yes. But still being served knuckle sandwiches for free.

CONSEQUENCES. All of these fuckers have experienced consequences. We are ALL liable for the consequences. Jon Tron got his project cancelled, OReilly got cancelled, Milo got buried, Spencer's catching glittery right hooks.

That's all I'm saying. I will protect your right to bitch about their speech, as much as I'll protect their speech too. When speech becomes action, THEN, we riot. So far, WE struck first.

So wait, you're ok with him getting punched for having radical views but are against Coulter not speaking at a university that doesn't owe her anything? how do you manage to think that, also lol "the details matter not", the details are what people arguing with.

Also your last few lines are horribly naive, speech does turn in to action, these things take time, people don't become radical overnight in most cases. And speech = action.

 

[Frozenprince]

Also pretty sure Milo "struck first" when he got a trans girl outed and abused. But ya know.

 

[Psychoward]

Also pretty sure Milo "struck first" when he got a trans girl outed and abused. But ya know.

If we totaled up all of Milo's offenses we'd strike like... 48th. But yeah we got him by debating him! Not by outing him as a pedophile defender or anything by digging up a video, nope it was pure 1 on 1 debate that got him to sink in to the abyss. Not to mention he still believes all of his horrible shit and still has a (slightly smaller) following. Thanks Maher, the details don't matter!

 

[Lord Frieza]

Also pretty sure Milo "struck first" when he got a trans girl outed and abused. But ya know.

And no one defending his right to speak has touched that since it's been brought up either lol.

 

[Gattsu25]

Also pretty sure Milo "struck first" when he got a trans girl outed and abused. But ya know.

Or the heaping of abuse and harassment he sent to women in the games industry during Gamergate.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

Coulter has never done anything like Milo did in that regards, but she's got progressively more racist in her writings and rantings

I was aware of her abhorrent views on gay people, but I am less aware of her racial views. I'm not going to go digging deep but even some of the stuff I get from a quick google search is pretty gross. I'm not precisely sure what she was going to talk about but if it was related to some of that stuff I do have less sympathy for her.

and she has condoned acts of violence for the greater good as well.

That's pretty shitty. Thank god nobody on the left does that.

 

[legacyzero]

Dude. Dude.

Think about how much you have posted on this site alone--just on NeoGAF, and just on the subject of politics. Think about how many hundreds of posts you have on these subjects. But yet despite all that, we haven't even been able to get through to someone like you. If we can't get through to a supposed ally like you and are on completely different wavelengths, what hope is there for people like Coulter or Milo or Spencer? We can't even get through to you that it wasn't "debate" that took Milo down but a really incredible stroke of luck that he turned out to be a pedophile-sympathizer, which turned out to be a step too far. Not any debate took him down--just him turning out to think pedophilia isn't that bad.

Same with say O'Reilly. No amount of debate with him or anything took him off the air. It's only once advertisers pulled their ads once he turned out to have sexually harassed women (again, not for anything he said, or any amount of debate, or even just the fact that he's a women-harassing pile of garbage by itself got Fox to pull him, not even that was enough, but rather advertisers pulling their ads because of that fact is what got Fox to act) that made him get kicked. And even then he's very likely to wind up finding some gig elsewhere, taking his audience with him, and being just fine and things not being anything different at all.

And of course the same was true with the transgender bathroom bill in North Carolina. Was it "debate" or whatever that got the Republicans that supported that shit scared? No, it was the NCAA and other businesses and all the toooooootaly, super-evil-inherently-because-they're-billion-dollar-corporations-and-all-those-guys-are-inherently-evil-because-wall-street pulling their money from the state that got those motherfuckers to even somewhat consider changing their minds (and even there, even after all that, they still tried all manner of bullshit and hemming and hawing).

But despite your hundreds of posts on this site, despite all the debate you've done, we can't even get a supposed ally like you on your side and to understand this. If debating you is like trying to lift the world on our shoulders, then what hope is there for anything to be gained from debating people like Milo or Coulter? If just debating you, an ally, is like pulling blood from a stone on these issues, how can you even begin to attempt to argue in good faith that there's anything at all to be gained from debating people like this?

The fact that debating an ally like you is like pulling blood from a stone is the direct counter-point to every single thing you're saying here. That you don't see that and continue down this road really says it all and is better than any argument I could ever make myself, so thanks for that.

Thanks for what? Not wanting to give up ground on MY right to free speech, because YOU wanna live on a slippery slope. Sorry but no.

And don't use me as the object to repeat to your point. It was through debate that this very site convinced me that, even if against my principle, voting for Hillary versus any other candidate was the best move. I supported her, to both friends and family who were on the fence. I'm totally open to seeing your point of view on anything. I just know when to call you ridiculous

If it wasn't for my exposure to people like Milo, Oreilly, etc, I wouldn't have been able to understand them, and subsequently hate them.

So wait, you're ok with him getting punched for having radical views but are against Coulter not speaking at a university that doesn't owe her anything? how do you manage to think that, also lol "the details matter not", the details are what people arguing with.

Also your last few lines are horribly naive, speech does turn in to action, these things take time, people don't become radical overnight in most cases. And speech = action.

No, I mean more so about allowing them to keep their platform if it's given. Nobody is entitled to that otherwise.

 

[Kinsei]

And no one defending his right to speak has touched that since it's been brought up either lol.

That's because they don't actually care about it.

 

[Lois_Lane]

If we totaled up all of Milo's offenses we'd strike like... 48th. But yeah we got him by debating him! Not by outing him as a pedophile defender or anything by digging up a video, nope it was pure 1 on 1 debate that got him to sink in to the abyss. Not to mention he still believes all of his horrible shit and still has a (slightly smaller) following. Thanks Maher, the details don't matter!

And it wasn't one of the weak willed moderate "debaters" who did it either. it was a teenage libertarian girl from Canada. And his allies didn't turn on him for his racist, sexist views but because he was open about wanting to fuck kids. The next Milo will be smart enough to not do that.

 

[Psychoward]

Thanks for what? Not wanting to give up ground on MY right to free speech, because YOU wanna live on a slippery slope. Sorry but no.

How do you still not understand what free speech entails? Not wanting someone clearly hateful and bigoted to speak at a campus is not the same as jailing someone for saying something you disagree with. There is no slippery slope here, it doesn't exist. What people in this thread are advocating for is perfectly legal.

 

[PixlNinja]

Free Speech support is pretty liberal.

Don't know why the tides have turned of late.

Because the people complaining who claim to be liberals aren't actually liberals. They like saying they are because it sounds nice but when it comes time to shit or get off the pot they tend to fall right in line with the suppressive talk and hysterical labels that helped elect an incompetent jackass as potus.

 

[wandering]

If it wasn't for my exposure to people like Milo, Oreilly, etc, I wouldn't have been able to understand them, and subsequently hate them.

Isn't less hate a good thing?

 

[Angelus Errare]

Thankfully as a minority I have a +50 racial passive to "Not needing to understand racist people to hate them"

 

[theCalamity]

Can we please debate the merits of genocide and discrimination based on race, sex, gender, or religion. I feel that if I can't debate whether or not you are human, my free speech is being violated.

 

[Psychoward]

Because the people complaining who claim to be liberals aren't actually liberals. They like saying they are because it sounds nice but when it comes time to shit or get off the pot they tend to fall right in line with the suppressive talk and hysterical labels that helped elect an incompetent jackass as potus.

lol

 

[Alienfan]

It infuriates me when people see free speech and free public platform as the same thing

 

[Sianos]

In David Wong's defense, he at least practices what he preaches and does try to play the role of emissary trying to show racists that minorities are human beings too with some of his articles. I can respect his views on communication if he's willing to be the one to actually do it, unlike the majority of people I see raising those sort of concerns that we're not reaching out to racists enough. Unlike the people who will write essays on how important talking about theoretical racial superiority is as an academic exercise and yet are strongly resistant to calls to unilaterally condemn racism.

(I still disagree that having to enforce protection of the downtrodden is unnecessary, and present just as Lois_Lane did the Stonewall Riots and National Guard protection of integrating schools as why progress must be protected.)

However, I'm under the impression that quite often people don't "put in the time" having to spend their free time immersed in misery to try and salvage some humanity from bitter, racist people, and so they don't know how difficult and soul-crushing it is. And certainly don't expect minorities to have to defend their own humanity while receiving torrents of abuse whole you sit in the ivory tower complaining that maybe actually their defenses of their humanity might offend some people.

In essence, there's nothing wrong with people trying to reach out to hateful people, because sometimes it really does work. But to expect the recipients of that hate to shoulder the burden and sit in silence suffering until their abusers relent is entirely unreasonable. Time for allies to actually be allies, this is what their job is.

 

[Nillansan]

The details matter not.

What are you on about? The details do fucking matter.

 

[Frozenprince]

Thankfully as a minority I have a +50 racial passive to "Not needing to understand racist people to hate them"

It's never not funny seeing this trotted out time after time like it's some amazing thing. Realizing that people are mostly shit and hate you for being different.

Like fool I learned that when I was four years old.

 

[Plumbob]

Hint to people now saying "it's a slippery slope!" in defense of Ann Coulter: that's the name of a logical fallacy.

 

[Slayven]

Thanks for what? Not wanting to give up ground on MY right to free speech, because YOU wanna live on a slippery slope. Sorry but no.

And don't use me as the object to repeat to your point. It was through debate that this very site convinced me that, even if against my principle, voting for Hillary versus any other candidate was the best move. I supported her, to both friends and family who were on the fence. I'm totally open to seeing your point of view on anything. I just know when to call you ridiculous

If it wasn't for my exposure to people like Milo, Oreilly, etc, I wouldn't have been able to understand them, and subsequently hate them.

No, I mean more so about allowing them to keep their platform if it's given. Nobody is entitled to that otherwise.

Can i borrow a cup of privilege? Milo and O'reily doing the same tap dance that racists before them have done and will do long after we are dust. The lyrics might change but the beats still the same. Only someone with the ability to opt out of the shit will fill the need to understand and entertain them

and folks need to get over they issues with the primary and hillary/bernie. the slapfights that creep into threads is beyond annoying.

 

[Cyframe]

In David Wong's defense, he at least practices what he preaches and does try to play the role of emissary trying to show racists that minorities are human beings too with some of his articles. I can respect his views on communication if he's willing to be the one to actually do it, unlike the majority of people I see raising those sort of concerns that we're not reaching out to racists enough. Unlike the people who will write essays on how important talking about theoretical racial superiority is as an academic exercise and yet are strongly resistant to calls to unilaterally condemn racism.

(I still disagree that having to enforce laws is unnecessary, and present just as Lois_Lane did the Stonewall Riots and National Guard protection of integrating schools as why progress must be protected.)

However, I'm under the impression that quite often people don't "put in the time" having to spend their free time immersed in misery to try and salvage some humanity from bitter, racist people, and so they don't know how difficult and soul-crushing it is. And certainly don't expect minorities to have to defend their own humanity while receiving torrents of abuse whole you sit in the ivory tower complaining that maybe actually their defenses of their humanity might offend some people.

In essence, there's nothing wrong with people trying to reach out to hateful people, because sometimes it really does work. But to expect the recipients of that hate to shoulder the burden and sit in silence suffering until their abusers relent is entirely unreasonable. Time for allies to actually be allies, this is what their job is.

Exactly, and it's especially concerning when any blame is laid at the feet at minorities who are on the left. If I as a Black person doesn't see the value in debating with a nazi, I'm not at fault, because Spencer is a nazi.

So many ask us to have introspection (when we already think about these issues daily and have hard life experiences before college is even in the picture) while they have none. If a person can't see why they'd get a cold shoulder when they say something like that or insinuate a civil war, they are hopeless.

 

[Lord Frieza]

I was aware of her abhorrent views on gay people, but I am less aware of her racial views. I'm not going to go digging deep but even some of the stuff I get from a quick google search is pretty gross. I'm not precisely sure what she was going to talk about but if it was related to some of that stuff I do have less sympathy for her.

I would hope.

That's pretty shitty. Thank god nobody on the left does that.

Oh, that sounds like a great gotcha moment, but the kind of violence Coulter is talking about is stuff like public floggings and things of that nature. Someone detailed it earlier in the thread. But almost!

 

[Measley]

Honestly it would be better if Coulter was allowed to speak and no one showed up.

No protests, no controversy, just her walking into an empty auditorium with no one there to listen or give a shit about her views. Nothing to greet her but crickets chirping in the distance.

One can dream.

 

[Psychoward]

Oh, that sounds like a great gotcha moment, but the kind of violence Coulter is talking about is stuff like public floggings and things of that nature. Someone detailed it earlier in the thread. But almost!

What do you mean Frieza, there's no difference between violence in an act to secure human rights and violence like public lynchings. They're both violence and violence is always wrong all the time 100%!

lol

 

[boiled goose]

Honestly it would be better if Coulter was allowed to speak and no one showed up.

No protests, no controversy, just her walking into an empty auditorium with no one there to listen or give a shit about her views. Nothing to greet her but crickets chirping in the distance.

One can dream.

an alternative strategy to the understandable mass protest strategy:

Hold a huge event with free food and music that celebrates diversity at the same time. Don't mention her name at all.

Send a couple of well prepared people to her event and embarrass and expose her.

The problem with these protests is that it gives trolls like Milo and Coulter what they want: attention. In a way it legitimizes them and incentivizes their behavior.

It's a tough question. You don't want to just ignore hate either.

 

[Zeyphersan]

Because Freedom of Speech? It says you can say stupid shit, and not get your head bashed in with a bike lock. You can protest it all you want(and you should), but the instant it turns physical you are no longer on the moral highground(or the law).

I'm not even American, how the fuck do I know that and not actual Americans?

The first amendment says nothing about ANY of that. Legally freedom of speech means the government cannot "abridge" your speech or the press, not that you get to say whatever you want in any context and it has nothing to do with physical protection or consequences for violence or moral standing

So I guess to answer your question, you know nothing about it

 

[theCalamity]

an alternative strategy to the understandable mass protest strategy:

Hold a huge event with free food and music that celebrates diversity at the same time. Don't mention her name at all.

Send a couple of well prepared people to her event and embarrass and expose her.

The problem with these protests is that it gives trolls like Milo and Coulter what they want: attention. In a way it legitimizes them and incentivizes their behavior.

It's a tough question. You don't want to just ignore hate either.

Alternate strategy: just play those clips of her getting roasted

 

[radios shipping overview]

Because the people complaining who claim to be liberals aren't actually liberals. They like saying they are because it sounds nice but when it comes time to shit or get off the pot they tend to fall right in line with the suppressive talk and hysterical labels that helped elect an incompetent jackass as potus.

- "identity politics got Trump elected"

That's a bingo, folks! Where do I cash in my card?

 

[old manatee]

Because the people complaining who claim to be liberals aren't actually liberals. They like saying they are because it sounds nice but when it comes time to shit or get off the pot they tend to fall right in line with the suppressive talk and hysterical labels that helped elect an incompetent jackass as potus.

Yeah, it was really dangerous and irresponsible when Ann Coulter went on television and talked about how Mexicans are more dangerous than sharks.

 

[PixlNinja]

- "identity politics got Trump elected"

That's a bingo, folks! Where do I cash in my card?

There have been threads on GAF linking to studies that prove just that. Pretty sure there was one that confirmed that racism/diet racism was a driving force behind Trump getting elected. The thing is, a lot of those people also happened to vote for Obama, some even twice. What happened in those 4 years since Obama's re-election was a shift to the hard left that was rejected by the majority of the majority population. Identity politics played a huge part in that. Trying to deny that isn't going to help the situation.

Funny thing is, I didn't even say "Identity Politics":l

 

[2Smashed4U]

There have been threads on GAF linking to studies that prove just that. Pretty sure there was one that confirmed that racism/diet racism was a driving force behind Trump getting elected. The thing is, a lot of those people also happened to vote for Obama, some even twice. What happened in those 4 years since Obama's re-election was a shift to the hard left that was rejected by the majority of the majority population. Identity politics played a huge part in that. Trying to deny that isn't going to help the situation.

Funny thing is, I didn't even say "Identity Politics":l

Bullshit lmao

I'll find you a study right now that will tell you if anything, conservatives shifted more to the extreme right while everyone remained the same.

 

[theignoramus]

Also, is Maher a closet libertarian? Is there some sort of deeply held belief he holds that rules that out? This man is constantly attacking liberals & holds the type of callous, "fuck your feelings" type of ideology that libertarians so consistently hold.

 

[Chumley]

Also, is Maher a closet libertarian? Is there some sort of deeply held belief he holds that rules that out? This man is constantly attacking liberals & holds the type of callous, "fuck your feelings" type of ideology that libertarians so consistently hold.

No, he's a comedian. His kind of attitude towards people complaining about things is pretty common among comedians his age, like Seinfeld for example.

 

[TheContact]

I like bill but I couldn't ever side with Ann coulter that heartless human being

 

[radios shipping overview]

Also, is Maher a closet libertarian? Is there some sort of deeply held belief he holds that rules that out? This man is constantly attacking liberals & holds the type of callous, "fuck your feelings" type of ideology that libertarians so consistently hold.

Maher seems to support the EPA intervening to get a handle on climate change, which isn't a very libertarian view. I think what he does share with libertarians is his love of weed and his status as a privileged white male.

 

[explorer]

Not for nazis.

I hate to break this to you, but when you're the one trying to suppress free speech you are the nazi.

 

[TaterTots]

Apparently, this isn't the first time Berkley has invited someone to speak and it was cancelled because students have a different view. Can't hide from the truth forever. Accept the bull shit and start shouting it down. Its your right as well, but delaying the real world truth is not going to benefit you in the long haul. This is just avoidance like it's not happening.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

I hate to break this to you, but when you're the one trying to suppress free speech you are the nazi.

 

[Zeyphersan]

Apparently, this isn't the first time Berkley has invited someone to speak and it was cancelled because students have a different view. Can't hide from the truth forever. Accept the bull shit and start shouting it down. Its your right as well, but delaying the real world truth is not going to benefit you int the long haul.

What real world truth is being delayed here? Ann Coulter is a known entity, not a mystery speaker. Everyone already knows her deal

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

I hate to break this to you, but when you're the one trying to suppress free speech you are the nazi.

Shit, that means the Nazis won. They've taken all of Europe.

 

[Lois_Lane]

Shit, that means the Nazis won. They've taken all of Europe.

And Canada!

What should we do?

 

[2Smashed4U]

Hint to people now saying "it's a slippery slope!" in defense of Ann Coulter: that's the name of a logical fallacy.

Except in this scenario, the slope and where it leads is in plain view. You start putting restrictions on free speech laws on the grounds that someone like Ann Coulter is using hate speech, and right wing politicians will immediately use it as precedent to label left wing groups such as BLM hate groups and prevent them from organizing on the grounds that what they do is "hate speech" against white people.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Except in this scenario, the slope and where it leads is in plain view. You start putting restrictions on free speech laws on the grounds that someone like Ann Coulter is using hate speech, and right wing politicians will immediately use it as precedent to label left wing groups such as BLM hate groups and prevent them from organizing on the grounds that what they do is "hate speech" against white people.

I thought that was already happening? BLM is referred to as a hate group and economic terrorists that need to be run over for blocking the roads...

 

[Psychoward]

I hate to break this to you, but when you're the one trying to suppress free speech you are the nazi.

1) still not grasping free speech in america

2) where's my swastika armband, was soros supposed to give them out? can someone tell him he forgot me, along with my monthly checks for protesting