Maher, and many others, are against that, too. They showed clips a few weeks ago of a campus where a speaker was who writes books and papers that are just thinly veiled eugenics being protested, non-violently, by students, and Maher said it was awful and he had two "liberal" panelists who agreed, one going as far as saying those students should be reprimanded by suspension if not outright expulsion
Cape for hate speech by (incorrectly) citing the first amendment, as if a law can't be flawed.
Who is banning anyone from speaking in public? She can go to the Berkeley courtyard anytime. First amendment doesn't guarantee a podium, room reservation, av equipment, etc.
I think non-violent protest should be the way to go personally.
You couldn't be more wrong. America is bursting at the seams with subtle acts of white supremacy pretty much everywhere. Doesn't mean every rural hick is advocating for cleansing the gene pool, and speaking as a Jewish person, yeah that distinction matters to me.
This country isn't going to have a damn civil war, if anything the left lacks any semblance of a spine to even consider a fucking war along morality or pplitical lines.
Mhm mhm.
Ann Coulter has never asked for violent outbursts or anything.
Oh wait.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...like-to-see-a-little-more-violence-from-trump
Hmm, obviously it's a case of the eeeevil leftist hive mind of whatever the fuck is the problem that moment.
"I have to say I'm all for public flogging. One type of criminal that a public humiliation might work particularly well with are the juvenile delinquents, a lot of whom consider it a badge of honor to be sent to juvenile detention. And it might not be such a cool thing in the 'hood' to be flogged publicly."
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war."
"When contemplating college liberals, you really regret once again that John Walker is not getting the death penalty. We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too. Otherwise, they will turn out to be outright traitors."
"My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building."
"Vester: You say you'd rather not talk to liberals at all?
Coulter: I think a baseball bat is the most effective way these days."
"I'm getting a little fed up with hearing about, oh, civilian casualties. I think we ought to nuke North Korea right now just to give the rest of the world a warning."
"Would that it were so! ... That the American military were targeting journalists."
"We need somebody to put rat poisoning in Justice Stevens's creme brulee. That's just a joke, for you in the media."
"Perhaps we could put aside our national, ongoing, post-9/11 Muslim butt-kissing contest and get on with the business at hand: Bombing Syria back to the stone age and then permanently disarming Iran."
"I wouldn't kill an abortionist myself, but I wouldn't want to impose my moral values on others."
"A small item but the point is Nixon came in, shut it down, there was the shooting at Kent State, and gosh, I know liberals don't like it and when you look on Nexis and oh, the whole country was embarrassed. Well, I'm not embarrassed. That's what you do with a mob. They were monstrous at Kent State. It was being led by Bill Ayers."
"if you pass amnesty, that's it. It's over. Then we organize the death squads for the people who wrecked America."
Giving charismatic hate mongers with questionable views a large podium with which to broadcast their views has never, ever, ever worked out for the side that is against said awful views.
They turn violent in these cases because the student union getting these hate mongers to speak riles up the opposition and starts shit. They throw hands and get pissed when they miss and catch one back.Why do these campus protests always turn violent? What are the "security concerns" being cited?
This country isn't going to have a damn civil war, if anything the left lacks any semblance of a spine to even consider a fucking war along morality or pplitical lines.
That lines been trotted out to shut people of color up since before the ACTUAL CIVIL WAR.
Yeah, Ann Coulter isn't an unknown person with this weird new way of thinking, she's been on Fox News, guys. She's already "out in the light" for people to see.
You couldn't be more wrong. America is bursting at the seams with subtle acts of white supremacy pretty much everywhere. Doesn't mean every rural hick is advocating for cleansing the gene pool, and speaking as a Jewish person, yeah that distinction matters to me.
It's not even cancelled it's being moves back a week and Coulter and her legions of hate mongers are threatening to sue.Why do these campus protests always turn violent? What are the "security concerns" being cited?
I thought they usually shut them down on the day of the event, once things actually turn violent, but they are cancelling it ahead of time because they expect it to be violent?
Why do these campus protests always turn violent? What are the "security concerns" being cited?
I thought they usually shut them down on the day of the event, once things actually turn violent, but they are cancelling it ahead of time because they expect it to be violent?
Exactly. Address it.
Silencing them, throwing stones at them and punching them is a one way track to civil war.
Certainly more than standing in a circle and himming and hawing. Fight back, radicalize, turn their rhetoric the other way for positive change.Okay, what do you propose we do otherwise then?
The thing that gets me, too, is this also shows such a massive double standard we have for the right vs the left. You never hear any kind of argument about how the NRA should allow gun law advocates to speak at their conventions. You never hear arguments that CPAC needs to invite more liberal or moderate speakers to present the other side. I literally have never heard an argument for this, fucking ever. But colleges, traditionally liberal institutions, they have to just roll over and let in the Neo-Nazis and the hate mongers.
You mean "disqualifying and discrediting our entire position". We lose the debate entirely going down that route. Civil War is specious and a possible outcome, but the real threat is not being invited to address a position at all!
Why do these campus protests always turn violent? What are the "security concerns" being cited?
I thought they usually shut them down on the day of the event, once things actually turn violent, but they are cancelling it ahead of time because they expect it to be violent?
Sanctions/boycotts and censuring are also important. People need to stop watching trash like Bill Maher and let it die.
Well, they're legally obligated to do so...
Most self professed Nazis aren't advocating genocide either, that doesn't mean they wouldn't do it if they had the chance and they were in power. America isn't so good and so pure that it couldn't one day descend into the kind of ethnic cleansing happening all around the world today. In a way they're already doing it, subtly and under the guise of law and order. Men of color are being killed by police, and sent to prison every single day.
Replace Civil War. Instead it's "disqualifying and discrediting our entire position". We lose the debate entirely going down that route. Civil War is specious and a possible outcome, but the real threat is not being invited to address a position at all!
They don't always. I mentioned before that a few weeks Maher showed clips of a non-violent protest of students against a "conservative" speaker (who writes stuff that is apparently just eugenics dressed up in a new way), and even that was too much apparently.
It's not even cancelled it's being moves back a week and Coulter and her legions of hate mongers are threatening to sue.
They turn violent in these cases because the student union getting these hate mongers to speak riles up the opposition and starts shit. They throw hands and get pissed when they miss and catch one back.
Berkeley has had two prior violent protests due to some white supremacist/Nazi/Alt-Right/Waste of Life/Trump Fan and their ilk speaking there.
They don't always. I mentioned before that a few weeks Maher showed clips of a non-violent protest of students against a "conservative" speaker (who writes stuff that is apparently just eugenics dressed up in a new way), and even that was too much apparently.
Certainly more than standing in a circle and himming and hawing. Fight back, radicalize, turn their rhetoric the other way for positive change.
Standing there and tut tutting don't do shit.
This has been the way forever. Tons of events get shut down beforehand if the authorities have concerns about who is going to turn up and how that will go. And it is not just the threat, it is also taking into account earlier protests and violence.Oh alright. If the implied threat of violent protests is enough to get a talk canelled (or date moved) then I guess this will be a recurring story.
Hey remember how hate crimes rose after the election and black people are being killed weekly by the police.
Oh wait, big mean old leftists don't want to meet violence with hand holding and listening skills anymore.
Guess were evil.
When the other side is literally just spreading lies and hate why do we have to give them a platform?
It's a GAF thing. Personally, I'm all for people saying whatever they want to. You want to spew shitty racist comments? That's fine, but people also have the right to shut your shit down and counter the hatred. Shouting people down and making them hesitant/afraid to say shit is the only way to win. You aren't going to change their beliefs.
'TRUMP IS A FASCIST. WE SHOULD STOP HIS SUPPORTERS WITH VIOLENCE!'This pearl-clutching over Ann Coulter's rights in the age of Trump makes me want to projectile vomit. You fools are embarrassing.
And yet the other side uses violence consistently to great effect.That's the more realistic answer, yeah. The entire liberal movement is torpedoed if violence becomes the answer.
I get your point and don't disagree that common sense and decency are to be considered in how one voices ideas. But in this case, members of the student body -are- the ones inviting and offering a platform for these people to speak. Its a different case from your examples.
They're legally obligated to let you speak, not to give you an actual platform (in this case a venue + seating).
A hotep can go to Berkeley tomorrow stand in the courtyard and speak about white genocide. Berkeley however isn't obligated to give that person an actual venue and seating.
Ironically if someone decided to go on a nationwide tour to promote white genocide I HIGHLY doubt people would be "He's allowed to speak! Give him a platform" over this, especially not moderates or Republicans.
And yet the other side uses violence consistently to great effect.
You act like this isn't already reality. The right has a monopoly on violence as a scare tactic. To silence.And if people radicalize, then they're going to get stopped with violent force. Do you really believe this majority white racist nation wouldn't immediately break out the guns and clamp down on protest the second they felt like rioting and other violence became widespread?
Or on a lesser scale, that it wouldn't immediately cause the "moderates" that end up deciding shit in this country to turn against the left? Because on average, this country has shifted to the right wing to an extremely heavy degree.
Radicalizing does nothing but put a death sentence on the American left.
This has been the way forever. Tons of events get shut down beforehand if the authorities have concerns about who is going to turn up and how that will go. And it is not just the threat, it is also taking into account earlier protests and violence.
Also how is bill maher "liberal"
You act like this isn't already reality.
The right has a monopoly on violence as a scare tactic. To silence.
Too much meaning? Did the talk end up happening?
So again.It isn't, not in a "riot police with automatic weapons flooding every city street and the US government thinking about declaring martial law" sense it isn't.
They're legally obligated to let you speak, not to give you an actual platform (in this case a venue + seating).
A hotep can go to Berkeley tomorrow stand in the courtyard and speak about white genocide. Berkeley however isn't obligated to give that person an actual venue and seating.
Ironically if someone decided to go on a nationwide tour to promote white genocide I HIGHLY doubt people would be "He's allowed to speak! Give him a platform" over this, especially not moderates or Republicans.
Yes, these days everything cancelled is suddenly a violation of free speech for some, while that is not the case, and then they go on Facebook and complain.Been this way for political events on campuses? Maybe it's just publicized more.
She's getting exactly what she wants. To be viewed as the victim.Yes, these days everything cancelled is suddenly a violation of free speech for some, while that is not the case, and then they go on Facebook and complain.
But there is nothing wrong with it. I don't have specific examples, but I doubt this is the first event on a campus that has been postponed, cancelled or not go passed the planning stages because of security issues. And in this specific case, there is a history of violent protests, so I think people complaining should chill and accept that the people in charge made this decision.
So again.
Protesting doesn't work and my proposed solution is shot down.
So maybe now you see why there might be unresolved anger that explodes on these situations? Since nobody really seems to give a shit about offering solutions once the ones that involve retaliating are shot down.
Another wake up call: they don't give a shit about debate winning or losing, they care about crushing us and all we stand for. We're already at war, be it a cultural one.
If she is so concerned about not being able to speak, she should rent out her own venue, pay for security and hold her talk. But I never see that option being suggested by the free speech complainers. And like you say, this way she can get sympathy from her followers and continue to complain (and make money) from her own home without doing anything.She's getting exactly what she wants. To be viewed as the victim.
So now her bullshit radicalizes yet more youthful bigots.