we don't call those people "rapists"
that term conjures a completely image than what happened here
also...
if the minor was engaged in sexual activity previously, i think we can all drop the "oh poor victim" meme
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Another 30 old teacher and 15yr old student but this time with a twist
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that term conjures a completely image than what happened here
also...
if the minor was engaged in sexual activity previously, i think we can all drop the "oh poor victim" meme
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
IISANDERII
Member
"this time with a twist"
I thought the twist was that they were lebanese and the bottom picture was the student
I thought the twist was that they were lebanese and the bottom picture was the student
Definitely. That's the only reason these stories get play though. These are never newsworthy. There's nothing unusual about this case, it isn't emblematic of an epidemic or a growing trend--or if it is, coverage certainly isn't approaching it from that angle. Only reason anyone runs this story is because it's salacious and she's a babe.
This story isn't in the public's interest. Nobody's life is enriched by this story. Nobody understands the world better because of this story, nobody is better equipped to make decisions in their own life because of this story. Whoever decided to run it should be embarrassed.
So now people who have had sex before can't be raped. Great.
"lebanese"? or "lesbian"?
I like the insinuation that sympathy is only a meme.
I spit out my coffee. But you might be right.
They do.
In my country the age of consent is 14 but there can be made a case for a sexual crime if the other person is using his/her age or position as a means to influence the other person and convince him/her to have sex. Which can obviously be what happened here.
15 years for this? You have cops killing innocent in the name of law and getting away with it easily. Judiciary system is totally broken. The best thing would be to put her behind bars for a year or two, add 3-4 years of community service and some kind of penalty. That's about it. 15 years for this seems ridiculous. Hell even actual criminals don't get 15 years.
While I agree with the first part of your comment, with regards to the second I had no idea a woman could go to jail for life or 15 years for the statutory rape of a 15 year old boy in the US so from that point of view it has been educational. Now if I'm a teacher and I read this story, it very well might equip me to make better decision in the future.
In general, though, you're right. This is so far from being national or even regional news without the super-sexy-hot-teacher fantasy clickbait angle.
Damerman
Member
No one is saying "poor victim"... We are only focusing on the woman's behavior which is wrong on a professional level and social level, regardless of whether the victim is consensual or not.
Nancy Drew in... The Lascivious Case of The Lebanese Lesbians
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
Like that isn't hard to get around. No role playing is basically what's that saying to me. I think it just happens more often because an institution like a school is easier for the two people to meet. 14 is still quite young and does that justify the age of consent in media? 18 is pretty well accepted everywhere on the globe. I'm having this light conversation here, but 18 has been standard in the entertainment side, so why is it not acceptable in real life? All it's doing is saying you can have sex behind closed doors with nothing else.
I don't really want to discuss ages of consent here but the reason for 14 years old is because you are no longer a child and it's no longer pedophilia. So the line is drawn there. I don't know how many countries have the age of consent at 14 or 16 or 18 so I can't discuss what is standard or not.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
That's all you had to say, thanks.
nice strawman
of course that's not what i am saying...
i am stating that if the minor was engaged in sexual activity previously than they portrayal of him as some kind of virginal youth who has been forever and deeply emotionally damaged by a deranged assailant is incorrect and shouldn't be used
BadAss2961
Member
While I agree, no one would bat an eye at 15 years had the sexes been reversed. People even tend to be more lenient when the woman in question is attractive.
thecouncil
Banned
timetokill
Banned
These kinds of stories always bring out the rape defenders on GAF. It's really disturbing.
So now people suffering from Stockholm Syndrome weren't actually raped either? C'mon.
So now people suffering from Stockholm Syndrome weren't actually raped either? C'mon.
i agree...
it is wrong socially and professionally
but...
criminally?
and if yes to that, so harsh a sentence?
i'm not so sure
Came here to post that. I was pretty shocked she got 15 years for that very reason ... usually the good looking ones get off light, the ugly/fat/old ones go to prison.
FWIW she's not really going to serve 15 years ... with good time served she'll be eligible for parole probably in less than half of that. Still though, she sure drew the short straw vs. some other publicized female teacher sex stories.
The topic is statutory rape. "wow she's hot" not only does not contribute to the topic in any healthy way, but it reads as being supportive of the rape. Any high school kid should be so lucky, right? If it's helpful, flip the script a bit and make the thread about an adult man having sex with his 15 year old female student. He's someone in an authority position abusing that position to sexually prey on a minor. Rather than discussing this, people post about how very handsome he is.
This is no different, and not at all something we're going to tolerate here, and haven't for a very long time.
superdeluxe
Member
vehicular homcide 2 years, statutory rape Life in Prison. seems like the punishment is a bit upside down.
Huh? Any decent psychologist should be able to diagnose that as well of course. I was talking about mental maturity to see how emotionally developed he is.
GameGuru59
Banned
It's debatable whether a rape actually occurred. Law and justice are two very different things.
There appears to be very little evidence that teenage boys that engage in sex with adult women have any long term damage. Rather, it seems we attach the same punishment that one would to an adult man having sex with a teenage girl- which is a very different scenario. We do this because we (as a society) are too politically correct to acknowledge that having sex with a teenage boy renders no real harm to the boy's body or mind, whereas a teenage girl bears the potential responsibility of bearing a child by her partner. If anyone has any evidence showing a causal link to some detriment to teenage boys development being caused (other than just speaking it into existence) by their engaging in underage sex with a teacher, a discussion can be had.
Otherwise, we ought to start admitting that this type of punishment for this "crime" is just as tied up in cultural dogma bullshit as our marijuana laws.
Exactly, and that's the key difference.Judge said:
Lol, I was just in DC and an older foreign couple in front of me looks across the street and the wife says "look honey, one of those lesbian restaurants." And they stop and look. I look over and it says Lebanese Tavern. Ate there a few days later and it was great!
Sorry off topic.
I am surprised the DA agreed to lesser charges. I guess because it was fully consensual.
RustyNails
Member
15 years is fucking outrageous. What the hell?
Eighty Deuce
Banned
Time to change the age of consent, isn't 15 the norm outside of the US?
Yeah but what if you're guilty of vehicular homicide five times over?
And she'll get parole in 5 years.
GameGuru59
Banned
Why? Surely one is worse than the other, right? Sheesh, in LegalGAF, it's as if deontology is the only normative ethical perspective in existence.
not_so_special
Banned
people who think 15 years of prision is ok in this case give me fear,really
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
same punishment as murder though a murderer will probably be out before her
How about no.
As it was explained before, in countries where the age of consent is lower there are caveats to protect minors from abuses of power like it could be the case here. So this could/would still be a sexual crime even with the lower age of consent.
GameGuru59
Banned
Why not? What evidence do you have against changing it? For most of American history it was lower than it is now.
Yes, but they are certainly more proportional that what we have. In the US we have this stupid magic line of 18 where all of a sudden you apparently gain some magical sexual clairvoyance!
Simply Sarah
Member
I should point out the reason she was facing life in prison was because of the combination of the student's age and the fact that he was a student. She was initially charged with five counts of Criminal sexual conduct in the first degree rather than in the 3rd degree (if it had just been based on age) because of that. Here is the real issue:
In other words, the time can range from basically nothing to life in prison. I don't have time right now to look up what kind of sentencing guidelines Michigan has, but that's obviously a rather broad range of discretion.
In other words, the time can range from basically nothing to life in prison. I don't have time right now to look up what kind of sentencing guidelines Michigan has, but that's obviously a rather broad range of discretion.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
Lol, does she have a dead tooth as well?
Confused by the "this is what we do in high school" line...curious if that's more of a predatory thing or perhaps alluding to a history of sexual abuse towards her. Irregardless, messed up situation. I wonder what "family" were giving letters of encouragement. Yeesh.
timetokill
Banned
And you want to change it to some other magic line of [insert age here] where all of a sudden you gain "magical sexual clairvoyance!"
Ultimately the law has to be practical and consistent. As a society we don't want teachers fucking their adolescent students. We don't want them fucking their students in general, but on the basis of consistency and practicality we draw the line at underage.
Some want to argue that some teenagers are capable of "handling it." Sure. But a great many aren't, and we can't have the situation where people say "I thought s/he was mature enough" as a defense. Additionally, we can't or don't practically want a system where we have to check each kid and stamp them for sexual maturity. While I guess that would help fill out jobs but it's not exactly a great use of resources.
Finally, there are some that want to say that because it's a young male, it should be looked at differently. What you are doing by saying that is perpetuating the idea that males cannot be raped except in extraordinary circumstances. Furthermore, you continue to assert your patriarchal view of women's sexuality by "protecting" them further into life, saying they're not ready until later.
Your first reaction to a 15 yo girl having sex with a 30 year old male teacher is "string him up!"
Your first reaction to a 15 yo boy having sex with a 30 year old female teacher is "'atta boy!"
This reaction betrays a sexist point of view. All this serves to do is reinforce harmful gender stereotypes. As it turns out, a lot of teenage girls want and have sex. A lot of teenage girls are more emotionally and mentally mature than their male counterparts. There are teenage girls that desire and attempt to seduce their male teachers. Just as there are teenage boys that aren't ready for sex, that are uncomfortable by the pressure put on them to be sexually ready and active, and who don't want their first time to be with someone who has authority over them, not to mention emotional, intellectual, and physical dominance over them.
Trying to take away agency from females and placing it all on males is, frankly, bullshit for both genders.
You attempt to obfuscate the issue by making this kind of assertion:
You go from making a claim about a boy's mental state, and then comparing it to a girl's physical state. This quote does a lot to illuminate the issues with your point. First, you imply that boys are somehow more resilient mentally to this sort of situation, to which I'd like a citation, or at least a definition of "real harm." Right now it smacks of bullshit like "boys have keys, girls have locks" breakdowns.
Secondly, you act as though pregnancy is something that is completely a non-issue to males. What happens if the boy gets his teacher pregnant? Do you really think that males have no emotional attachment to having a potential child? That maybe the boy would want to see that child brought to term? That maybe the woman would bring it to term, despite the boy's potential wishes otherwise? How about that a 15 year old boy is really not an ideal father in our society?
Ultimately it makes sense from a social point of view as well as a justice point of view to draw a clear line. Teachers shouldn't fuck their students. Adults fucking minors is rape.
Derekloffin
Member
The really sad thing is there is another case out there of this where the kid was on the hook for child support... I don't know how that one ended up working (maybe the system smartened up but I have no confidence in such) but the fact it even started is pathetic.
SuperEpicGuy
Banned
So was it consensual or not? I'd imagine when I was 15, I wouldn't have minded this at all if it was consensual. If it was consensual then maybe a slap on the wrist should do it. Just because he's 15 doesn't mean that he's mentally retarded and can't make his own decisions.
If it wasn't consensual though, then she should most definitely be punished.
If it wasn't consensual though, then she should most definitely be punished.
That's the terrifying thing. I said in one of my earlier posts that I have no idea what an appropriate sentence should be, but 15 years in this situation, whether she was male or female, does not seem appropriate. And life is definitely not appropriate.
[edit] I'm silly she got support from her own family. That's a lot more understandable even if it is disagreeable.
The judge went overboard with the verdict though. Life dropped down to 15 with a 5 year parole option. Just being on the sex offenders registry is a huge penalty. The max could've been 10 years.
The judge went overboard with the verdict though. Life dropped down to 15 with a 5 year parole option. Just being on the sex offenders registry is a huge penalty. The max could've been 10 years.
GravityMan
Member
I'm not against "sending a message", but that sentence is ridiculous, and that judge is out of line. It's not right to just assign outlandish sentences willy nilly. The punishment needs to fit the crime. Don't abuse the criminal justice system.
And besides, whatever message that judge tried to send will fall on deaf ears. Teachers will continue having sex with underage students.
I doubt she'll spend anywhere near 15 years in prison. She'll be out on on parole once she's eligible in 5 1/2 years. Maybe sooner.
I also have no sympathy for Ronk's husband. I have a feeling that their marriage was growing stale/boring and that he wasn't there for her in times of need.
And besides, whatever message that judge tried to send will fall on deaf ears. Teachers will continue having sex with underage students.
I doubt she'll spend anywhere near 15 years in prison. She'll be out on on parole once she's eligible in 5 1/2 years. Maybe sooner.
I also have no sympathy for Ronk's husband. I have a feeling that their marriage was growing stale/boring and that he wasn't there for her in times of need.
Fenderputty
Banned
nice strawman
of course that's not what i am saying...
i am stating that if the minor was engaged in sexual activity previously than they portrayal of him as some kind of virginal youth who has been forever and deeply emotionally damaged by a deranged assailant is incorrect and shouldn't be used
Why'd they have to be virgins to be damaged?
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