AP - Europe moves to limit cheese names in America
- Thread starter Ripclawe
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Essentially yes. They want to establish regions and whole food types as brands because conveniently the EU has a dramatically older culture and this way they could exclusively sell any products which are now famous in the US after many years of marketing and hard work.
Its like, thank you for establishing a market for this type of good. How about you now give us exclusive rights to use the name, since you know, we have a region it came from with a specific name and people who are now accustomed to seeing that name, because of your marketing will only buy from us. Thank you so much for making your people aware of this product. Market is ours now.
Insane.
Utterly wrong. One of the dumbest, most pig-headed American posts I've read on here in years.
All of the cheese names are internationally famous. They have been profitable local cheese makers in each region for centuries. European aristocracy in the 18th and 19th century used to do Grand Tours of major European cities, either for the art or the cuisine. Parma was a key destination, just to experience and buy large quantities of parmesan cheese (being a hard cheese, it travelled well.
perfectchaos007
Member
I don't think anyone in the US is concerned. Today, American cheese manufacturers probably chuckled and rolled their eyes at this, and continued on producing tons of American parmigiana and feta cheeses in Northfield Illinois
Boy are you willfully ignorant of the point being made. No one gave a fuck about those cheeses
IN AMERICA
Until AMERICAN COMPANIES MADE THEM IN BULK AND SOLD THEM
TADA WE MADE A MARKET FOR YOUR TYPE OF CHEESE IN OUR OWN COUNTRY.
"OH THANK YOU FOR THIS MARKET THAT DIDN'T EXIST IN YOUR COUNTRY, LET'S MAKE IT SO ONLY WE CAN USE IT.
-signed EU"
PeskyToaster
Member
i ain't lettin' some pansy ass euro name my cheese george washington fought and died to protect everything american. freedom.
I think of a brandname as the product of a specific company.
I don't think that some region should claim a basic type of food as their brand name just because of the name its known by, when whoever invented it isn't even around anymore.
If you can do that with cheese then you can do it with anything else.
Next thing will be American beer makers can't market a beer they made as a Flanders Red or a Belgian Quad, even though those are distinct styles of beer that are known by those names.
You could do that with thousands of things.
Another example so that SPE can understand what is essentially happening.
Cheese X is 300 years old from the region of X Germany
Nobody in America buys Cheese X. Few German companies bother or are successful selling Cheese X in America
There is no market
Kraft makes a generic Cheese X as it is tasty
After decades of marketing and pushing this product Germany wants to say
"Your market for Cheese X is huge. Please refrain from using that name, we want to exclusively sell it to you now that Kraft has made it huge in your country, remember after all, it is we who originally developed this cheese".
Cheese X is 300 years old from the region of X Germany
Nobody in America buys Cheese X. Few German companies bother or are successful selling Cheese X in America
There is no market
Kraft makes a generic Cheese X as it is tasty
After decades of marketing and pushing this product Germany wants to say
"Your market for Cheese X is huge. Please refrain from using that name, we want to exclusively sell it to you now that Kraft has made it huge in your country, remember after all, it is we who originally developed this cheese".
BlackSalad
Member
But I thought Americans were the only ignorant ones? As an American I have offense to Europeans using the word "ignorant" now. That's our word bitches
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
eeehh somewhat true. I guess. I still think America over rates the IPAs way too much as far as the microbrew stuff goes. If I go to the fancy american beer bar in Amsterdam, toooo many IPAs.
That's a personal thing though, I find they all just taste like plants.
part of the argument. The other part is 'your cheap shitty imitation cheese that is wildy popular in your country is so well marketed that it's damaging the brand of actual good cheese, which is very popular here'.
Yeah like this is going to open the door to a variety of protectionist measures. Just because the product and technique originated from a specific area and became famous doesn't mean much. It's not like anyone buying processed Kraft parmesan is thinking, oh man, I have the genuine fresh from a farm in Italy old world Parmesan. It's basically the taste and style of cheese. What's next? Canadian-style Maple syrup, Mexican-style Salsa or Tortillas.
Maybe some agreement could be reached. American Parmesan cheese, or Italian-style Parmesan. But I'd still be iffy by granting blanket name rights. Remember, a lot of people in America actually brought their knowledge from Europe. Hey, you can't call that bratwurst, its not from Germany etc.
Maybe some agreement could be reached. American Parmesan cheese, or Italian-style Parmesan. But I'd still be iffy by granting blanket name rights. Remember, a lot of people in America actually brought their knowledge from Europe. Hey, you can't call that bratwurst, its not from Germany etc.
It can be overdone.
I feel like with the IPAs there's two crowds, one more mellow, and the other who wants it extreme.
For the latter, the microbrews are always one-upping each other, until eventually drinking the thing is like getting smacked in the mouth by a Christmas tree.
US producers can still produce the exact same product. It's about making sure it's not being sold as something it isn't. They would just need to re-label. Italian Hard Cheese instead of Parmesan.
Like how you can't buy 'Finest Scottish Salmon' that's produced in China, or Kentucky Bourbon that's made in Mexico. America has both acts of congress and international trade agreements that protect its regional products. No difference here.
But not only did this not happen, it has nothing to do with the proposed trade agreement.
I have no idea where you get the idea that Americans only started buying cheese when US makers started producing it. It's completely wrong.
not psycho
Member
It absolutely is not about that.
Again, generic use of "parmesan", "cheddar", etc, is very well established in the US at the current time. At some point in history it might have been different, but right now the generic name for a type of cheese is 100% established. Nobody is getting a wrong idea about what is being sold, because anything about the origin of the cheese being implied by the name is long, long since forgotten.
There may be other reasons to support exclusive use, but this isn't one of them.
Parmesan is a hugely well known cheese now in this country BECAUSE of the efforts by the likes of Kraft. Period. No ifs and or buts. There was little to no established market and now the EU wants to make brands of types of cheeses so that they can capitalize on the brand recognition in our country. Period.
The people who made Parmesan a household name shouldn't have to change it to "hard italian cheese" and lose a huge amount of mindshare and have market confusion thrust on them because suddenly the EU decides the market for cheeses has become large enough to try to essentially take advantage of the efforts of US companies.
The EU can do whatever the fuck they want within the EU, but they can't start telling US companies what they can or cannot name after decades of hard working Americans creating markets within our country for said product. If they had established trademarks for international recognition the moment these cheeses were created, then that would be a different story.
If a product is named after a region, then yeah, enforcing that it actually comes from there is very important. Especially when that region is internationally famous for that particular product.
Do you agree that Bourbon should be protected in trade agreements?
As for your point about what's more important as a defining point of a product, look at wine.
It hasn't hurt the local wine produces in US, Australia etc that they can't name their wines after European regions. Rioja, Chablis etc. New world wines are branded under the grape variety, so rather than Chablis, it's Chardonnay, rather than Rioja it's Tempranillo etc. They're named after the main ingredient.
lazorexplosion
Member
Protectionism is greed.
So you're saying that countries should never renegotiate trade agreements with each other? lol You'd better let the WTO know that.
theprodigy
Member
Console wars, phone wars, now cheese wars
what
what
No one is under any delusions that a product is being bought solely based on an expectation it be from that region. No one expects Cheddar to be from Cheddar. They are purchasing a cheese with a specific characteristic and the expectation is of a certain flavor profile.
The EU is trying to take advantage of
1. Years of hard work by American companies to establish these brands which otherwise wouldn't have a market
2. The fact that they have a far older culture and there are far and away more products named after European regions than can be said about the US
So again, if they filed for international recognition the moment a product is established, well that is fine. To say, oh look Cheddar has to be from Cheddar England from now on after all these hundreds of years. I mean, it is named after that region, please cease and desist using the name. Don't worry, your products will remain the same, so nothing to fear, except that people who want Cheddar type cheeses are going to look for it by name and naturally will buy the English product now.
EU can go fuck itself.
Thanks for establishing a market for us. -signed EU
Notice how in the very post you quoted, I mention that if something is considered for international recognition the moment it is created that it is fine. That falls under international trade agreements.
Deciding that after several hundred years you want protection for a product is insane and the US has every right to refuse and take whatever ramifications that causes, and I'm sure there will be responses to those by the US.
not psycho
Member
OK, here is a good example.
Because "cheddar" became established as a generic name for a type of cheese in Europe, it was unable to be reversed into a protected trademark. The Village of Cheddar would have liked to protect it. They couldn't, because it was too established as generic.
The same is true for various other cheeses in the US, like parmesan and mozzarella. They are firmly established as generic names for a type of cheese here. That's what the words mean. It is too late to go back.
If cheddar isn't protected in Europe, why should parmesan be protected in the US?
lol Poor American hard workers always being scammed by those dirty lazy Europeans...
Germany should claim the right to the name Hamburger as well !
But more seriously, I that agree parmesan, mozarella, etc are now generic names so it makes no sense trying to "protect" them now.
They became generic after a lot of marketing dollars were thrown at them. EU is basically saying "You know, they may be generic now, but how about we establish that only we can use those names". Its not about lazy Europeans, its thieving Europeans lol
Why don't you learn to read instead of tossing out insults. He's talking about in the US. There was no market for these things in the US until US dairy farmers and ad agency made them household names. And now that they are, the EU can not just come in and demand to take advantage of this market that DID NOT EXIST without the effort of American companies by pushing those companies out.
"YOU GUYS AREN'T PAYING ENOUGH ATTENTION TO ME! LOOK AT ME!"
Razgriz-Specter
Member
iamaustrian
Member
good cheese costs a fortune in america. the standard crap is in noway comparable with even not-so-good european cheese.
There must be a reason why pretty much all highclass restaurants in the USA import their cheese.
American "parmesan" is just...no words
lol
I know you mean all the small, cool and hip "out of business in a month or two"-breweries but we also have them here in the EU. hundrets of thousands of them with equaly good beer
There must be a reason why pretty much all highclass restaurants in the USA import their cheese.
American "parmesan" is just...no words
lol
I know you mean all the small, cool and hip "out of business in a month or two"-breweries but we also have them here in the EU. hundrets of thousands of them with equaly good beer
Yeah, i thought that these types of agreements are already in place. I remember reading some Californian winery naming their wine USB, because they couldn't call it port. I guess it could have been just for international markets though.
Fight it, fine. But don't expect us to agree a free trade deal if you don't accept our requirements to do so.
Because it was a somewhat dumb post... Of course Americans have pride in their products and goods. Florida oranges, Idaho potatoes, Omaha steaks etc.
But it's more of the fact that the best products come from that region. No one is passing off their products as trying to "steal" the European name. No one in their right mind buying Kraft processed parmesan in a container or local "parmesan" from some type of bag, is thinking, hey I got the genuine thing fresh from the farms of the old world.
The reason they use words like "Italian" or "authentic" is to show that it's in the vein/style of how it was made.
Do Europeans have no pride in their own products being so fearful of others that they think unless they ban the use of words like feta, parmesan, mozzarella, they can't compete?
This is all part of the same EU law. It protects foods that come from a certain areas. It's kind of a local shared trademark.
I'm not surprised they have pushed it outside of the EU via trade agreements.
You got it backwards, it's because we see value in those products that we're trying to protect their names and attach standards ensuring quality to them.
US has good cheeses, they can diversify themselves doing their own quality stuff instead of producing cheap rip-offs.
Hydranockz
Member
Is this what the Americans might consider patent trolling in some weird way?
Yep. Like it or not, these are generic names for types of cheese at this point. No one goes to the store and thinks, "oh good, cheese from Parma, just what I was looking for." They're looking for parmesan, a cheese of specific hardness and flavor.
Ridiculous thing to try to enforce, and I hope it isn't agreed to.
Just think how screwed America will be when Hamburg comes knocking!
Hydranockz
Member
Well, isn't that a fairly strong case as to how damaging an impact it can have on the regional cheese?
Lol no one has a gun to your head.
I'd be happy for a couple of these agreements to fall through, your country is a complete bastard when it comes to pushing copyright extensions outside of your borders.
New name suggestions:
Cheddar: sharp/yellow cheese
Parmesan: hard cheese
Mozzarella: soft cheese
American: fake cheese
I'm kidding, of course. Sandwich. Hamburger. Bologna. French fries. Yorkshire pudding. Turkish delight. Worcestershire sauce. California roll. Frankfurter. Java. Key lime pie. Neapolitan ice cream. Mayonnaise. Dijon mustard. Sardines. Brussels sprouts. Cantaloupe. Peaches. Shallots. Tangerines. The list goes on an on and on. Don't set a stupid precedent or these all need to be renamed.
Cheddar: sharp/yellow cheese
Parmesan: hard cheese
Mozzarella: soft cheese
American: fake cheese
I'm kidding, of course. Sandwich. Hamburger. Bologna. French fries. Yorkshire pudding. Turkish delight. Worcestershire sauce. California roll. Frankfurter. Java. Key lime pie. Neapolitan ice cream. Mayonnaise. Dijon mustard. Sardines. Brussels sprouts. Cantaloupe. Peaches. Shallots. Tangerines. The list goes on an on and on. Don't set a stupid precedent or these all need to be renamed.
In the sense of using it as a case study for future products from specific regions and what they should try to avoid if they don't want to be considered generic names, I suppose. As an argument for trying to undo the genericness... I don't really see it. That ship has sailed.
perfectchaos007
Member
Did the Hamburger really originate in Hamburg Germany? If Italy wants Bologna, the meat, back they can have it. gross
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