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[LeleSocho]

Are we going to argue that the cow's diet in Europe somehow makes a difference in the taste of the milk used for the cheese? Because other than that, the process is exactly the same. I don't believe a connoisseur could tell the difference between a high quality North American cheese and its European equivalent.

Such ignorance...

By the way how the hell can you call Parmigiano if not Parmigiano? Cheese powder? And if i want some Pecorino Romano? Salty cheese powder?
I don't know... i'm totally ok with limiting the nomenclature of cheese in the US since it's known that the market is dominated italian fakes there but you have to have ready a good alternate name for it.

 

[Prisoner]

you can't brie serious

 

[adj_noun]

Freedom fromage.

 

[grandjedi6]

The Europeans say Parmesan should only come from the area around Parma, Italy, not from Auricchio's plant or those familiar green cylinders that American companies sell. Feta should only be from Greece, they say, even though feta isn't a place. The EU argues it "is so closely connected to Greece as to be identified as an inherently Greek product."

haha...haha..AHAHAHAHAHA

The idea that, in this age of globalization and manufacturing, that Parmesan cheese should be determined by location and not its process, is laughable. I get if they want to restrict the usage of calling it "Authentic Parmesan" but trying to tie the product to location ain't happening.

 

[hipbabboom]

What? That seems really petty.

Yeah... it probably is. But you gotta make your job seem meaningful when you're collecting all that special-interest money.

 

[PKrockin]

Don't call them Hamburgers, guys, Germany will get upset.

 

[TheGravemind]

Problem is, it's the US cheese industry that really popularized and increased the consumption of cheese worldwide. It's not a question of quality.

Will be interesting to see how this all plays out. I do know Scotland was able to force India to start calling their Scotch, Indian Scotch or Indian-style Scotch on their bottles from distilleries.

Maybe for cheese from Italy, they can start writing American parmesan or Italian style Parmesan. Then again, many countries have started to locally produce products that were started elsewhere.

lolololol you don't even know how taste a real parmiggiano reggiano and what the us industry sell as parmisan is a cheap cheese with no connection to the parmiggiano and use his name in order to boost their sales, hurting the original prduct value.
Us industry should write " cheap plastic cheese for 'muricans who want quantity over quality and didn't care about what they eat"

 

[Seth C]

Doesn't the U.S. do this with bourbon labelling?

Sort of? But it is an international agreement. There are recognized standards for a whiskey to be called bourbon, with one of those being that it is produced in the USA. On the other hand, Scotch can only be made in Scotland, Irish whiskey can only be made in Ireland, etc. It was a mutual agreement.

Such ignorance...

By the way how the hell can you call Parmigiano if not Parmigiano? Cheese powder? And if i want some Pecorino Romano? Salty cheese powder?
I don't know... i'm totally ok with limiting the nomenclature of cheese in the US since it's known that the market is dominated italian fakes there but you have to have ready a good alternate name for it.

We already don't called it Parmigiano. We just call it "parmesan" and it doesn't even need to be capitalized. It is a genericized name here.

lolololol you don't even know how taste a real parmiggiano reggiano and what the us industry sell as parmisan is a cheap cheese with no connection to the parmiggiano and use his name in order to boost their sales, hurting the original prduct value.
Us industry should write " cheap plastic cheese for 'muricans who want quantity over quality and didn't care about what they eat"

You realize we have all varieties here, correct? We have powdered parmesan, American made "real" parmesan, and any decent grocery carries imported Italian varieties as well. Also, I've had it in Italy. It isn't any better. Deal with it.

 

[temp]

It ain't easy being cheese manufacturers.

 

[RELAYER]

Oh boy, the resident cheese experts are here and boy are they mad at American cheese this time

 

[Beaulieu]

Problem is, it's the US cheese industry that really popularized and increased the consumption of cheese worldwide. It's not a question of quality.

Will be interesting to see how this all plays out. I do know Scotland was able to force India to start calling their Scotch, Indian Scotch or Indian-style Scotch on their bottles from distilleries.

Maybe for cheese from Italy, they can start writing American parmesan or Italian style Parmesan. Then again, many countries have started to locally produce products that were started elsewhere.

what the hell am i readin

 

[Gannd]

The real problem is actually the opposite of what this commission is complaint about. American cheese making has advanced to the point where it’s often superior to the European product. They don't want to compete with the best of American cheeses. It's like American beer making has surprised a lot of European beer making.

 

[Sickboy007]

Sort of? But it is an international agreement. There are recognized standards for a whiskey to be called bourbon, with one of those being that it is produced in the USA. On the other hand, Scotch can only be made in Scotland, Irish whiskey can only be made in Ireland, etc. It was a mutual agreement.

And this is...what? This is part of the latest trade talks, the EU can't obviously interfere in the US market with american producers. If anything will come out of this, it will be a concerted effort for a trade deal that should also benefit american businesses on other fronts.

 

[Chezzymann]

lolololol you don't even know how taste a real parmiggiano reggiano and what the us industry sell as parmisan is a cheap cheese with no connection to the parmiggiano and use his name in order to boost their sales, hurting the original prduct value.
Us industry should write " cheap plastic cheese for 'muricans who want quantity over quality and didn't care about what they eat"

Oh my gosh, the sheer amount of concentrated blind pettiness/ignorance in this post is off the charts.

 

[Alrus]

Are we going to argue that the cow's diet in Europe somehow makes a difference in the taste of the milk used for the cheese? Because other than that, the process is exactly the same. I don't believe a connoisseur could tell the difference between a high quality North American cheese and its European equivalent.

What the fuck? Of course it does. A cheese made from summer milk isn't the same as a cheese made with winter milk. And there's tons of other factors.

The reactions in this thread are so stupid...

 

[KHarvey16]

If the original is so superior why is there concern? To hear some of you tell it you'd have to be an idiot to confuse this super cheese with the awful American imitation.

 

[Seth C]

And this is...what? This is part of the latest trade talks, the EU can't obviously interfere in the US market with american producers. If anything will come out of this, it will be a concerted effort for a trade deal that should also benefit american businesses on other fronts.

Well, one issue is this would be similar to one country trying to claim the trade rights on "whiskey". We already can't say our cheese is, for example, Parmigiano-Reggiano. We only call ours parmesan. Meanwhile, foreign countries could sell and market "bourbon style" whiskey. Ya see?

Also, and more importantly, if WE agree to this then I certainly have no issue. But if only the EU wants it? Sorry, doesn't work that way. Like I said, the whiskey laws were mutually agreed upon and mutually beneficial. IF we find some benefit to this for us, we will do it, if not we will say fuck off.

 

[Gannd]

lolololol you don't even know how taste a real parmiggiano reggiano and what the us industry sell as parmisan is a cheap cheese with no connection to the parmiggiano and use his name in order to boost their sales, hurting the original prduct value.
Us industry should write " cheap plastic cheese for 'muricans who want quantity over quality and didn't care about what they eat"

I don't think you've ever really eaten American cheeses. Not everything is from Kraft.

 

[Gr1mLock]

I cant believe so many people gave up a whole day to do something this stupid.

 

[Krabardaf]

lol, no. A type of cheese is a type of cheese.

A type of cheese is the same no matter where it comes from.

It's not a type of cheese it's like a trademark. You don't call coca cola every soda, you don't call parmesan every hard cheese. And thankfully so, many other varieties exists, taste different, and deserve their own names.

 

[Seth C]

It's not a type of cheese it's like a trademark. You don't call coca cola every soda, you don't call parmesan every hard cheese. And thankfully so, many other varieties exists, taste different, and deserve their own names.

You're right! We call the others cola and we never, EVER call a cheese Parmigiano-Reggiano unless it is. THAT is the trademark. Parmesan...isn't. The end.

 

[s_mirage]

If the original is so superior why is there concern? To hear some of you tell it you'd have to be an idiot to confuse this super cheese with the awful American imitation.

Because poor quality imitations can hurt the image of the genuine article when a lot of people won't even be aware that they are different. Even good quality analogues can be a problem as they still will likely have a different character. Brie really is the best example of this: Genuine unpasteurized Brie de Meaux has a much more complex flavour than even the best pasteurized versions.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

We beat the Nazis for them, the Europeans let us use their cheese names. Seems like a fair trade, no?

 

[LeleSocho]

We already don't called it Parmigiano. We just call it "parmesan" and it doesn't even need to be capitalized. It is a genericized name here.

I used parmigiano because i used pecorino romano as an example and didn't know how it was called in the US but "parmesan" and "parmigiano" are the same things one is the literal translation of the other. Also i capitalized them for emphasis.

 

[Prisoner]

Problem is, it's the US cheese industry that really popularized and increased the consumption of cheese worldwide. It's not a question of quality.

Will be interesting to see how this all plays out. I do know Scotland was able to force India to start calling their Scotch, Indian Scotch or Indian-style Scotch on their bottles from distilleries.

Maybe for cheese from Italy, they can start writing American parmesan or Italian style Parmesan. Then again, many countries have started to locally produce products that were started elsewhere.

 

[Sickboy007]

Well, one issue is this would be similar to one country trying to claim the trade rights on "whiskey". We already can't say our cheese is, for example, Parmigiano-Reggiano. We only call ours parmesan. Meanwhile, foreign countries could sell and market "bourbon style" whiskey. Ya see?

Problem is, the "parmesano" advertisement is plastered with misleading italian flags and "traditionally made" labels. Which the EU sees as damaging the italian, traditional producers, especially with the deepening of a common market in case the trade talks succeed.

Also, and more importantly, if WE agree to this then I certainly have no issue. But if only the EU wants it? Sorry, doesn't work that way. Like I said, the whiskey laws were mutually agreed upon and mutually beneficial. IF we find some benefit to this for us, we will do it, if not we will say fuck off.

There is no conceivable way the EU could interfere with the naming of an american product, sold in the US. How could it even be possible?

 

[Madness]

lolololol you don't even know how taste a real parmiggiano reggiano and what the us industry sell as parmisan is a cheap cheese with no connection to the parmiggiano and use his name in order to boost their sales, hurting the original prduct value.
Us industry should write " cheap plastic cheese for 'muricans who want quantity over quality and didn't care about what they eat"

Lolololololololol I'm not 'murican nor did I say American cheese was better than real' parmigiano reggiano, but thanks for talking out of your ass.

what the hell am i readin

I don't know, I meant that the US as a single country exports more cheese than all others? And is perhaps one of the highest consuming countries in the world? That only the EU together produces more cheese than the US. As for popularizing, I meant in the sense that they've put parmesan, mozzarella, and other cheeses in a lot of minds and homes. Even if it's not authentic, and those knockoffs by Kraft, and whoever makes it.

 

[KHarvey16]

Because poor quality imitations can hurt the image of the genuine article when a lot of people won't even be aware that they are different. Even good quality analogues can be a problem as they still will likely have a different character. Brie really is the best example of this: Genuine unpasteurized Brie de Meaux has a much more complex flavour than even the best pasteurized versions.

What does that say about what people actually want, then?

 

[RELAYER]

What does that say about what people actually want, then?

But they're WRONG.

 

[s_mirage]

What does that say about what people actually want, then?

That some people don't know any better?

 

[Krabardaf]

You're right! We call the others cola and we never, EVER call a cheese Parmigiano-Reggiano unless it is. THAT is the trademark. Parmesan...isn't. The end.

Welp i don't know how this appelation became standard in US, but here paremsan refers exclusively to parmiggiano. Other cheeses are generaly called grana or pecorino, and are different products with different tastes. So I don't know, if parmesan isn't a controlled appelation then theres is indeed nothing to debate.

 

[plagiarize]

You're right! We call the others cola and we never, EVER call a cheese Parmigiano-Reggiano unless it is. THAT is the trademark. Parmesan...isn't. The end.

but that's just it. you're already familiar with the concept of at least one cheese being protected. why is it so crazy for that to expand?

America has some great original cheeses. Cave aged Californian blue cheese is really nice, for example. Quality cheeses can rise up here and have their own name, rather than being 'authentic' knock offs. Then those cheeses can be protected origin across the Americas and Europe too.

 

[temp]

Lolololololololol I'm not 'murican nor did I say American cheese was better than real' parmigiano reggiano, but thanks for talking out of your ass.



I don't know, I meant that the US as a single country exports more cheese than all others? And is perhaps one of the highest consuming countries in the world? That only the EU together produces more cheese than the US. As for popularizing, I meant in the sense that they've put parmesan, mozzarella, and other cheeses in a lot of minds and homes. Even if it's not authentic, and those knockoffs by Kraft, and whoever makes it.

I feel like there isn't necessarily a connection between American companies making a lot of cheese and the amount of cheese people eat. Meaning other countries probably made more of their own cheese before large American companies came in and started selling their own cheese. So it's not like they expanded the market, necessarily.

 

[ElectricThunder]

As one of the Secret Kings of Cheese in IronGAF---I can assure folks that there is room for all in the wide world of cheese. I'm moreso surprised that this move took so long to come about as I'd have reckoned it to happen back when the "culturally/historically protected status/method/etc" movement went down as far as Pizza goes, Margherita especially.

I guess this has more parallels to the big, ongoing dust-up as far as Olive Oil goes though in terms of quality?

The USA absolutely has the potential and skilled folks to make some excellent cheeses often on par with, and at times exceeding, any of origins elsewhere in the world---laws on certain things carve out some caveats. The same is true from Europe versus all else---good cheese cares not for imaginary lines and entirely arbitrary designations! The trouble tends to be that entrenched big industry, on all sides, favor that race to the bottom as opposed to the real champs worldwide---your successful artisan outfits that do it not only for a good living, but for preservation of tradition and pursuit of excellence in the craft.

Frankly, most proper cheese makers in the US already have their own names for their specific creations same as anywhere else in the world---usually, their stables include takes on Parmesan and other "staples" largely just to help bridge that gap into the unknown for most folks that live their lives only eating the same 3-5 cheeses or so and just because they flat out like them as classics....or as a point of reference to see where they are trying to springboard to.

There's something a bit weird about how this has all turned into such a big ruckus, but I chalk it up to another in a long line of folks not realizing how good they've had it and trying to get things in a better order out of fear of it actually slipping through their fingers when it comes to culinary heritage----highly related things are going on worldwide in recent years in terms of Heirloom seeds and Heritage breeds of cattle, pigs, and all else.

 

[KHarvey16]

That some people don't know any better?

Exactly, which sounds very much like fear of competition. The equivalent of a small child stamping his feet and yelling "but it's just not FAIR!"

 

[yongeandcollege]

What the fuck? Of course it does. A cheese made from summer milk isn't the same as a cheese made with winter milk. And there's tons of other factors.

The reactions in this thread are so stupid...

Good thing we have both summer and winter in North America,

 

[Stinkles]

We should shut down all the million dollar businesses in Europe selling fake versions of deliciously complex American Cheese.

 

[Seth C]

I used parmigiano because i used pecorino romano as an example and didn't know how it was called in the US but "parmesan" and "parmigiano" are the same things one is the literal translation of the other. Also i capitalized them for emphasis.

While I understand what you're saying, even within the EU the name "parmesan" only became protected as recently as 2008. Meanwhile it has been used as a generic name for the style in the rest of the world since...forever. It happens, and that's just the way it is. We sell, and recognize, the protected trade name of "Parmigiano-Reggiano" here in the US.

Even for our own product, Coca-Cola, we do not protect the generic version "cola", in the US or abroad -- this despite the fact that the company and brand, Coca-Cola, popularized and apparently introduced the first "cola" and include it in their name.

Given that, why on earth would we protect the generic term "parmesan"?

but that's just it. you're already familiar with the concept of at least one cheese being protected. why is it so crazy for that to expand?

America has some great original cheeses. Cave aged Californian blue cheese is really nice, for example. Quality cheeses can rise up here and have their own name, rather than being 'authentic' knock offs. Then those cheeses can be protected origin across the Americas and Europe too.

I...don't? IF it's an actual trade name and not some generic term. But things like saying they can't even use Greek lettering on the "feta-style" packaging? Yeah, screw off.

 

[yongeandcollege]

Such ignorance...

By the way how the hell can you call Parmigiano if not Parmigiano? Cheese powder? And if i want some Pecorino Romano? Salty cheese powder?
I don't know... i'm totally ok with limiting the nomenclature of cheese in the US since it's known that the market is dominated italian fakes there but you have to have ready a good alternate name for it.

What makes it a fake? Lots of Italian immigrants in North American that used to make cheese in Italy. We're not talking about some complex process here. The ingredients and process are essentially the same.

 

[plagiarize]

While I understand what you're saying, even within the EU the name "parmesan" only became protected as recently as 2008. Meanwhile it has been used as a generic name for the style in the rest of the world since...forever. It happens, and that's just the way it is. We sell, and recognize, the protected trade name of "Parmigiano-Reggiano" here in the US.

Even for our own product, Coca-Cola, we do not protect the generic version "cola", in the US or abroad -- this despite the fact that the company and brand, Coca-Cola, popularized and apparently introduced the first "cola" and include it in their name.

Given that, why on earth would we protect the generic term "parmesan"?

It's not a generic term in Europe. You should have issues with Parmigiano Reggiano as it stands if such things bother you.

We should shut down all the million dollar businesses in Europe selling fake versions of deliciously complex American Cheese.

It's not really cheese. It's a product made with cheese, aka Processed Cheese. I mean, it's chicken in the way that mechanically separated chicken is chicken. Hilariously, 'American' in the term 'American Cheese' is literally synonymous with 'processed'. In that context, that's exactly what it means.

 

[johnsmith]

Fuck off, you cheese eating surrender monkeys.

 

[yongeandcollege]

Firstly, you don't know that the process is exactly the same unless you happen to have personally made both types. Secondly, some cheeses, though admittedly not the ones being discussed here, such as Brie, are only pale imitations in their American form due to stupid health regulations making the originals illegal. That bacteria helps with the flavour.

The process is the same. Much of the production high quality cheeses in North America was initiated by European immigrants. If anything, it is likely that the process here (for smaller dairies) is closer to the traditional methods because they haven't modified the process from when they arrived.

 

[chaostrophy]

I dunno about their Parmesan, but I have some BelGioioso fresh mozzarella in my fridge right now, and it says 'Crafted in Wisconsin' in big letters on the label. They aren't pretending to be Made in Italy. It's tasty stuff, though I'm not one of those serious cheese snobs.

 

[Seth C]

It's not a generic term in Europe. You should have issues with Parmigiano Reggiano as it stands if such things bother you.
.

I don't care what it is in Europe. I'm not in Europe. Also, it WAS a generic term in the EU until 2008 when Italy decided to fight to have that changed.

I'm cool with this if no one outside the US can call their soft drinks "cola" or any derivative of the word. Seems cool, right? No, that would be stupid. Let's not be stupid.

 

[plagiarize]

I...don't? IF it's an actual trade name and not some generic term. But things like saying they can't even use Greek lettering on the "feta-style" packaging? Yeah, screw off.

Parmigianino Regiano isn't a trade name. It is a type of cheese made by a number of companies in the Parmesan region of Italy. The English word for this type of cheese is 'Parmesan'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parmesan

they're synonymous terms in the rest of the world.

 

[mltplkxr]

It's not a type of cheese it's like a trademark. You don't call coca cola every soda, you don't call parmesan every hard cheese. And thankfully so, many other varieties exists, taste different, and deserve their own names.

You're right! We call the others cola and we never, EVER call a cheese Parmigiano-Reggiano unless it is. THAT is the trademark. Parmesan...isn't. The end.

These last two posts pretty much sum up what I was going to say, down to the Coke example,

It's a difficult problem. In Europe, food is serious business and cheese, wine,meats,etc have regional names that "everyone understands" and it's equivalent in America to a brand name. When you buy a bottle of Coke, Pepsi or Steward's, there's an expected difference in taste and manufacturing process. It's the same thing in Europe when you buy Proseco,Champagne or Asti. There's an implicit understanding of their characteristics and they are heavily tied to their region, more so than the name of the company.

They protect it because that's where they see value, just like American companies protect their brands. It's not about saying European cheese or wines are better than American cheese or wine.

 

[plagiarize]

I don't care what it is in Europe. I'm not in Europe. Also, it WAS a generic term in the EU until 2008 when Italy decided to fight to have that changed.

I'm cool with this if no one outside the US can call their soft drinks "cola" or any derivative of the word. Seems cool, right?

No. That would be akin to banning anyone from calling something *cheese*. Cola is a family of drinks, of which there are many types and brands. Protecting the Parmesan part of Parmesan Cheese is the same as protecting the Coca part of Coca Cola.

 

[Yaboosh]

America gives no fucks about appellations. Sorry Europe.

 

[Seth C]

Parmigianino Regiano isn't a trade name. It is a type of cheese made by a number of companies in the Parmesan region of Italy. The English word for this type of cheese is 'Parmesan'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parmesan

they're synonymous terms in the rest of the world.

Bullshit. From that specific page:

"he name is trademarked and, in Italy, legal exclusive control is exercised over its production and sale by the Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese Consorzio, which was created by a governmental decree."

What do you think a trademark is, if not a trade name, sir?

No. That would be akin to banning anyone from calling something *cheese*. Cola is a family of drinks, of which there are many types and brands. Protecting the Parmesan part of Parmesan Cheese is the same as protecting the Coca part of Coca Cola.

Bullllshit. Coca-Cola created and introduced THAT TYPE of soft drink. They created "cola" as much as they created "coca" and they did it in America. Let's play ball. Cola, the word, is derived from Coca-Cola's trademarked name. The other sodas from that "family"? They are all attempts at copying Coca-Cola, the original. You know, just like the "parmesan family" of cheeses.

 

[geomon]

Stupid and petty and yes I was saying the same thing when some here in the states were pulling that Freedom Fries shit years ago.