Actually, in one of the panels they worked on with Screwattack JC pretty flatly said Nintendo is going to continue to support the competitive community.
APEX 2015 | Fighting Game Tournament | Jan 30-Feb 1
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Actually, in one of the panels they worked on with Screwattack JC pretty flatly said Nintendo is going to continue to support the competitive community.
Professor Beef
Banned
Either way, I wouldn't expect an HD Melee for *years* at this point.
I've been thinking about it, a Melee HD would get thousands of Melee die hards to at least casually play the game and a sigifcant portion of that to buy Wii U's just to play Melee in HD.
Also, it would force TOs to start upgrading at a faster clip than it is now. Nintendo should push as many people to upgrade from a GameCube and Wii and Melee HD would do that.
Also, it would force TOs to start upgrading at a faster clip than it is now. Nintendo should push as many people to upgrade from a GameCube and Wii and Melee HD would do that.
Well, the 4 stock didn't happen.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Why would Melee HD force tourney organizers to upgrade to Wii Us?
Would allow use of lighter, smaller LCD screens (which many TOs might already have if they host other games)
Would hopefully allow for customized controls.
Would probably have some changes, making it the 'current' version of the game. This could go wrong so easily though.
I don't want Nintendo putting a finger on Melee balance wise they should stick to patching a game Sakurai cares about, Melee just needs a performance perfect WiiU port so tournament organizers don't have to find 10 year old gamecubes and CRTs for one game.
Acquiring and transporting and setting up CRT televisions is increasingly a pain in the ass and one of the major reasons why the EVO staff have been rumored to be unfriendly to Melee. Every TO in the country would prefer to use LCDs if given the option but that's not possible without Melee HD.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Without any allowance for new gameplay modifications, I honestly think the best we could hope for would be an untouched GC release ala the Wii releases we just got on the eShop. In terms of the Melee HD release that fans of tourney would want to see, I'd bet dollars to donuts that never happens. Honestly, I don't think they'd mess with an HD remaster at all, even the "Sakurai 'Fixes' Melee" edition.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
Their GCNs and Wiis won't magically stop working so no, there still wouldn't be much incentive to drop $300 on a new version of something you already own. The profit they would make from Melee HD would likely be small because only a small hardcore base would buy the game.
Melee HD is a message board pipe dream.
theprodigy
Member
lol I had to throw that out there
also Leffen didn't get 4 stocked at all this tournament!
Apex 2015 not a major confirmed Kappa
By doing what? And who does he speak for?
They, Nintendo of America, are going to do the same thing: support Smash 4 with setups, which is the only thing they likely have power to do.
Honestly pretty underwelmed with Nintendo's "support", don't get me wrong, Nintendo OF AMERICA does great, Treehouse, Trinen, JC, are great personalities keeping in touch, but Nintendo Japan are the men with the money and power and seeing so much as no announcement, no evo-like even video to even just recognize the event, or anything like that for even their business game was a bummer.
I mean twitter is one thing, but Nintendo could do so much realer things with no effort, promoting APEX in a Nintendo Direct would of been a phenomenal recognition. I could hate Ono's changes to any SF game, but there's nothing but pure respect for the man to actually show money for the game and show up in person to see and hear first hand everything that surrounds his game.
I mean twitter is one thing, but Nintendo could do so much realer things with no effort, promoting APEX in a Nintendo Direct would of been a phenomenal recognition. I could hate Ono's changes to any SF game, but there's nothing but pure respect for the man to actually show money for the game and show up in person to see and hear first hand everything that surrounds his game.
Pretty sure they provided a huge amount of Wii U's, GameCube adapters, and copies of Smash 4. Splatoon was playable at the event (arguably marketing), and in exchange they got to air a bunch of Nintendo commercials regularly on the streams.
I think they also helped organize the ScrewAttack stuff.
All great stuff but don't expect Melee HD or really any kind of real support for Melee or any actual game changes to Smash 4.
Providing setups for the new game is pretty big though. Wii Us are newer and kind of expensive, never mind the still kinda rare controller adapters. This tournament probably needed every one of those setups to run as quickly as it did.
The Splatoon demo was mutually beneficial. People pay to spectate and try it out, and Nintendo gets people excited for it early. Shame it got edgeguarded by the venue swap though.
Oh, I agree though. I'd don't think we'll see any kind of software support at all. At best they would patch Smash 4 a little.
64 WiiU's right? In total for hardware and software, that's about 20-grand USD. The Splatoon event, which still went on for a day and people got to enjoy, was likely another few cool-grand to move, set-up, and run.
So let's say, on the surface, NoA/Treehouse helped by alleviating about 25,000$. Who knows what else they may have done or how we value their ScrewAttack and exposure/advertising support.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Not to seem like Richie Rich or anything, but is that supposed to be an impressive amount of money? I mean it's more than I'd get in subs mind you, but it doesn't seem worthy of denoting him as a shrewd businessman. However, I won't pretend to understand the money that top pros make here. Like, is there any known figure associated with a Team Liquid sponsorship?
Professor Beef
Banned
Let's hope he has a sidejob then.
Right. Both players made a lot more than that on tournament winnings most likely, and I can't speak for these guys specifically, but typically top players go to these events and hustle hardcore with money matches with every extra second they have and walk away with a good chunk of change even if they don't win the tournament.
There's a lot of people out there who will pay 20+ bucks to try their hand at fighting a legendary player.
Well, the money match between Chillingdude and Leffen was for $100.
As for Chillingdude having a day job, I hope so. You are lucky if your sponser can pay to fly you out and pay the entrant fee, even with big teams like Team Liquid or Cloud 9. Maybe only Mang0 or Aramada actually lives off of their sponsorship deals right now.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I was wondering about the $1000 on the line between Mang0 and Leffen. Was that Mang0 getting carried away in the heat of the moment, or is $1,000 just nothing to him relative to the amount of money being tossed around at Apex for someone with his clout?
I'd put money on the latter.
Honestly at FGC tournaments $20 is like a minimum for money matching anyone. If it's a major player you usually need to put up more than that.
Smash scene might not have as much of a hustle so I don't know but I imagine someone like Mango could hustle a grand in an hour or two at a major.
BigBadShamoo
Banned
Leffen on his twitter posted
So yeah it appears FGC pays out if you can win.
So yeah it appears FGC pays out if you can win.
this is definitely not true, it just depends on the dude
i've mmed and seen plenty of mms for 5 and 10, even for 'top' players
Typing on phone bruh
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Art put up crowd reaction videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuMuNzyXsDQ
Mango v. Leffen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ncdd1hYk1A
Mango vs. Amsa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8XBdet0jns
PP vs. Armada
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuMuNzyXsDQ
Mango v. Leffen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ncdd1hYk1A
Mango vs. Amsa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8XBdet0jns
PP vs. Armada
Well I will clarify that I do only mean majors, and I don't know maybe Detroit just hustles harder than most but five and tens are reserved for locals around here and you can get at most a best of 3 from it.
Whenever I've been to majors I don't think I've ever seen a 5 or 10 dollar match from a top player.
I really hope you guys end up being wrong. I'd almost put money on it, but Nintendo is such a weird business that it wouldn't be a smart idea. Smash 4 was the brand new Smash at Apex and it couldn't beat Melee in terms of viewers or entrants. These are numbers that CAN'T be ignored by most businesses. I also expect the gap between entrants and viewers to increase throughout this year. Nintendo is a business, even if they just release Melee on VC, they gotta do something. The Melee community is looking to spend money on Smash because they don't get to do it often and they LOVE the game. Most of the smashers I know, anecdotal obviously, don't own a Wii U and they only own a Wii for PM. Melee on Wii U will be worth buying a Wii U because it will make Melee fans feel like Nintendo finally cares about them. As a result Melee fans will buy Wii Us just to show that appreciation.
Everytime I try to say this people get angry and say that Smashers are entitled even thought they built this scene by themselves for the last 13 years. I remember the days of 10-20 man tournaments. What we have now is incredible!
Anything that results in marketing vs Smash hype for both Melee and Smash 4 is opportunistic, not Nintendo really caring.
Nintendo donating $25,000 worth of hardware is awesome, but that's not their cost and it's something anyone can do, Twitch could do that, for example. Nintendo needs to show support in a way that only Nintendo can. AKA Melee on VC or Melee HD or Melee Mode in Smash 4, etc.
this is all wrong. =( I kinda feel Mango lately on Melee, though of course he's being dramatic.
-Armada going Fox: Armada has finally lost his patience. Since he's playing to win, I understand. There's wisdom to viewing Fox as a more likely character defeinitely to win than Peach and certainly the head-to-head between the two favors Fox. However, Armada isn't adjusting anymore. a month ago he discovered that Peach UpSmash can trade with Fox NAir, and it could've drawn more attention to the relatively good hitbox that Peach UpSmash has (on her sides). But no. DoH, KirbyKaze (who has tutored newer payers on playing Peach with success against Puff) and even Hungrybox believe the Peach Puff matchup is even. Two tournaments before BEAST (both in Europe) Armada beat Leffen to take both tournaments.
-Leffen: Leffen is getting into people's heads. More so than most other players, he wages a psychological battle against his opponent - it doesn't matter if he is getting out-tech-skill'd or out-comboed, he can still hold on to getting in people's heads. it is equal prts hype and smoke and mirrors/smack talk. I doubt anyone's going to get more "figured out" regarding the top players; it comes down to whether or not Mew2King will start practicing Melee again (because he hasn't been doing it hardly outside of tournaments) and as for Hungrybox, hejust won a national (paragon) but when Leffen gets defensive Hungrybox will have to adjust (as he has been)
-20XX: the thing about 20xx stretches further than HAx theorycrafting about TAS Fox. Hax thinks that currently only three characters should be winning national tournaments - Fox, Falco, and Marth. I like the promotion of tech skill, but worry about the reductionist gameplay and shrinking character diversity this necessitates. But who knows. Hax has said that "perfect Fox" doesn't work forever and the last person to be called the "optimal option player" (mew2king) was very clearly not about being optimal all the time at all, but using raw knowledge of the characters and situations to win
nah let's not go there yet
he's not sponsored right now, he's paying for all of his flights and hotel and such. he has a job. this was also huge tournament with high number of entrants (though there had to be a large number of no-shows due to the venue switching and such). There are probably six big tournaments a year where this money can be made, and that's generous (EVO, APEX easy, this year BEAST was large, Big House is a prominent series, and there are probably others, he has to travel to the ones in the US/not in sweden, etc.)
It was both IMO. he probably makes decent money from streaming. on your first point IMO-
-he is super pissed that he lost to Leffen. I don't get the impression that he thinks highly of the guy, though probably not for the same reasons that most others don't like Leffen. There's this story a year ago about how Leffen came to Cali looking to fight Mango, and Mango passed him off and Tafokints took in Leffen instead. After 4-stocking him in two previous tournies, and now losing to Leffen twice in a row, Mango isn't happy. He probably realizes that Leffen is kinda fixated on Mango because Mango is an obstacle to Leffen's goal of being the best and I think Mango finds it annoying. But after traveling to Sweden for BEAST 5 (he's not used to traveling outside of US, got a little sick, and doesn't play PAL Melee) Leffen got in his head. it's not insurmountable, Mango needs to tighten the screws. The uptilt that defeated Mango's Falco at APEX was wacky. call it cockiness (it is, to be honest) but i don't think mango really acknowledges leffen
-he considers Armada his rival, The Only One that Can Beat Him. Specifically Armada's Peach. It borders on bromance and once in a while in tweets or on commentary you can hear allusions to it ("you're dead because armada touched you"). Both times he lost to Leffen were tournaments that he fought Armada in Loser's bracket. By both times, he seemed like he was out of gas, and seemed to just give the torch to Armada, telling him to beat Leffen. Twitter posts from other viewers / fgc people seemed to suggest as much. but he's prob not happy with armada using fox more
-pride. he hates losing and likes being the g0at and repping mang0 nation and freedom
-Armada going Fox: Armada has finally lost his patience. Since he's playing to win, I understand. There's wisdom to viewing Fox as a more likely character defeinitely to win than Peach and certainly the head-to-head between the two favors Fox. However, Armada isn't adjusting anymore. a month ago he discovered that Peach UpSmash can trade with Fox NAir, and it could've drawn more attention to the relatively good hitbox that Peach UpSmash has (on her sides). But no. DoH, KirbyKaze (who has tutored newer payers on playing Peach with success against Puff) and even Hungrybox believe the Peach Puff matchup is even. Two tournaments before BEAST (both in Europe) Armada beat Leffen to take both tournaments.
-Leffen: Leffen is getting into people's heads. More so than most other players, he wages a psychological battle against his opponent - it doesn't matter if he is getting out-tech-skill'd or out-comboed, he can still hold on to getting in people's heads. it is equal prts hype and smoke and mirrors/smack talk. I doubt anyone's going to get more "figured out" regarding the top players; it comes down to whether or not Mew2King will start practicing Melee again (because he hasn't been doing it hardly outside of tournaments) and as for Hungrybox, hejust won a national (paragon) but when Leffen gets defensive Hungrybox will have to adjust (as he has been)
-20XX: the thing about 20xx stretches further than HAx theorycrafting about TAS Fox. Hax thinks that currently only three characters should be winning national tournaments - Fox, Falco, and Marth. I like the promotion of tech skill, but worry about the reductionist gameplay and shrinking character diversity this necessitates. But who knows. Hax has said that "perfect Fox" doesn't work forever and the last person to be called the "optimal option player" (mew2king) was very clearly not about being optimal all the time at all, but using raw knowledge of the characters and situations to win
nah let's not go there yet
he's not sponsored right now, he's paying for all of his flights and hotel and such. he has a job. this was also huge tournament with high number of entrants (though there had to be a large number of no-shows due to the venue switching and such). There are probably six big tournaments a year where this money can be made, and that's generous (EVO, APEX easy, this year BEAST was large, Big House is a prominent series, and there are probably others, he has to travel to the ones in the US/not in sweden, etc.)
It was both IMO. he probably makes decent money from streaming. on your first point IMO-
-he is super pissed that he lost to Leffen. I don't get the impression that he thinks highly of the guy, though probably not for the same reasons that most others don't like Leffen. There's this story a year ago about how Leffen came to Cali looking to fight Mango, and Mango passed him off and Tafokints took in Leffen instead. After 4-stocking him in two previous tournies, and now losing to Leffen twice in a row, Mango isn't happy. He probably realizes that Leffen is kinda fixated on Mango because Mango is an obstacle to Leffen's goal of being the best and I think Mango finds it annoying. But after traveling to Sweden for BEAST 5 (he's not used to traveling outside of US, got a little sick, and doesn't play PAL Melee) Leffen got in his head. it's not insurmountable, Mango needs to tighten the screws. The uptilt that defeated Mango's Falco at APEX was wacky. call it cockiness (it is, to be honest) but i don't think mango really acknowledges leffen
-he considers Armada his rival, The Only One that Can Beat Him. Specifically Armada's Peach. It borders on bromance and once in a while in tweets or on commentary you can hear allusions to it ("you're dead because armada touched you"). Both times he lost to Leffen were tournaments that he fought Armada in Loser's bracket. By both times, he seemed like he was out of gas, and seemed to just give the torch to Armada, telling him to beat Leffen. Twitter posts from other viewers / fgc people seemed to suggest as much. but he's prob not happy with armada using fox more
-pride. he hates losing and likes being the g0at and repping mang0 nation and freedom
Great post! Everyone should read it.
In terms of supporting the smash scene, I think nintendo would do better by bringing more exposure to the scene. The e3 invitational and new comer stream were all right, but helping with making streams and events have better production quality would go along way.
Also I think a melee remake could do well, like pokemon remakes. Hopefully I'm not blinded by my dreams.
I probably am
He did say this a little while back: https://twitter.com/C9Mang0/status/557634096823013378
We thought he was joking, but... uh oh.
I'd love to see it if he could make it work. But I think the last time he started going Falcon for fun, he lost to Eggz and people like that.
Nintendo should organize a tournament with both Smash 4 and Melee, invite the big names for the latter and have a big prize pool. Here's the catch though:
- Nobody can pick the same character. A draft determines the character you pick.
- Your draft position is decided by how well you finish in a Smash 4 tournament also ran by Nintendo.
So while Axe and Amsa would likely get their Pikachu and Yoshi, more characters would be represented.
- Nobody can pick the same character. A draft determines the character you pick.
- Your draft position is decided by how well you finish in a Smash 4 tournament also ran by Nintendo.
So while Axe and Amsa would likely get their Pikachu and Yoshi, more characters would be represented.
I just want Axe and Amsa in a grand finals
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Do you know how many Melee bigwigs even play Smash 4?
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
It's interesting that around the time Melee came back after brawl people like Mango, Hbox, and Armada were showing that Puff and Peach were legitimate threats. Now everyone's switching away from them lol.
Zero, Mew2King and Amsa are the only ones that I know of. Which is why I mentioned a draft to get them to try. I know this is completely out there, and I was half-joking. But it would be fun to have something like that if Nintendo were to push Smash and do something different. Like in March or something, before all the summer tournaments.
solomon
Member
Man smash 4 has been getting bodied the last couple hours from twitter to reddit smash, did apex leave that bad of a impression in peoples eyes?
I'm not gunna lie I pretty much play/played brawl, smash 4 and pm for Olimar. If a HD melee were to be released I would be happy but a part of me would be bummed out since he's not in it.
I'm not gunna lie I pretty much play/played brawl, smash 4 and pm for Olimar. If a HD melee were to be released I would be happy but a part of me would be bummed out since he's not in it.
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