APEX 2015 | Fighting Game Tournament | Jan 30-Feb 1

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Mit- said:
So, I wonder how much of that Nintendo was responsible for and how much Gaming Generations was responsible for. Especially since it all went to Gaming Generations afterward.
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The way Nintendude described it, sounds like that's what GG does, and it was mostly them. But it also sounds like Nintendo paid for it to make it happen.
 
Pappasman said:
I havent been keeping up with this thread but i can say I would be very active in a Melee OT :)

Also Anthony, personally feel that Pikachu is better than falcon and ice climbers. Axe is amazing, but is not reaching full potential

Great tier list though. I really agree with it.
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What areas of Pikachu do you feel are still under-explored?
 
Has this been posted yet? This was said by Zero. Source

This also happened when Nairo won Apex Brawl last year. Except the community was smaller back then, and the situation, while the same, wasn't given the attention it needed. Now we're on round two.
I'd lie to you if I told you it didn't bother me.
I've been wanting to win an Apex for many, many years. I've dreamed of the moment where I can finally hold that trophy, and just smile. But when the crowd was cheering it wasn't for me, it was for the fact that the game was over and they can now see melee. It wasn't cool and my heart was crushed, but I was only annoyed at the individuals who went ahead with it. I'm not saying all Melee players do this, but this is to those who did.
Let's make things different.
Don't apologize to me. That's not important. What's important is fixing an issue within the community. Generalizing isn't cool, but the friction between Melee and other Smash games has always been there. It's at events, in forums and chats. I've seen disrespect, and I've been disrespected in many different ways.
Who draws the line? How do we fix it?
This issue is old. It's a part of the scene, regardless of how some feel about it.
I personally think that if we collectively bring light to the fact that this is a critical issue then we are one step closer to fixing the problem. The thing is that, while this is an issue, there's still people that find these type of things 'okay' or 'fine'. But if this type of attitude is actively punished and scolded then we just might see a change. Until eventually it becomes a very rare issue.
You can't really understand how's it being on the other side of this topic. To be honest, I didn't understand until I was on that stage. When Nairo got the same treatment I didn't think much of it. But we dedicate our lives to being good at smash, to put on a show of high level display for you, and when you finally get the validation of winning something as big as apex... when you are looking to your smash family for support you just...
I've seen top players in different Smash games feel not as important to the community because they don't play Melee. And that's not okay. This shouldn't be the Melee Community or the Smash 4 community, but rather just the Smash community
I get it, fine. You don't like the other game. That's fine. But it really sucks to see more disrespect from people inside our community, than the people outside. Do you really have to be so vocal about it? So public to show it? Does it really have to? That's really my point,
If anything, we have work to do as a community. We're growing, and we're doing great things. This past Apex was a milestone in many, many ways for our wonderful community. I really hope this one issue at some point can be resolved. But I believe we can do it. It would take time, but it's possible.
At the end of the day no matter what game you play the person behind the controller is a part of this smash family. We all share the same passions, and that's Smash. It's amazing how many times we forget that.
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Thank you for creating a Melee thread. Please post the link when it's finished, so that I can jump in there.

Apart from the tier list, it should definitely include links to Melee streams, so regular tournament streams (VGBC, Salty Playground etc) and player streams (Mango, Armada, Leffen etc).
 
ec0ec0 said:
haha :P you said that, and this happened:
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2uq5bf/new_technique_found_by_taukhan_and_documented_by/
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I know, but the other thing is, 2-3 years ago that discovery wouldn't have mattered because nobody would've bothered to practice it, but now we have PewPewU actually implementing Kadano tech at majors (dthrow dash forward pivot fsmash tipper on Puff? omg). So I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Falco-Marth will swing more towards Marth as top Marths hit the next level of tech.
 
Lucumo said:
Thank you for creating a Melee thread. Please post the link when it's finished, so that I can jump in there.

Apart from the tier list, it should definitely include links to Melee streams, so regular tournament streams (VGBC, Salty Playground etc) and player streams (Mango, Armada, Leffen etc).
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Links to the smashboard netplay thread and maybe a google doc of all our general locations(country/state)+messenger contact (Whether be for meeting up online or offline) would be pretty neat too.

Also maybe the essential melee guides for those trying to jump in?
Intro to advanced tech part 1-3 on YT for example.
Then theres MIOM articles

and this site by PewPewU and Logan6694 that has a lot of stuff very neatly together: http://smashlounge.com/techniques/Jump+Canceled+Grab
 
Beats said:
So, Nintendo/Gaming Generations provided 64 Wii Us, 64 Adapters, 64 copies of Melee, 32 copies of Smash 64, 32 copies of Brawl, and 96 Wiis. This was the first event where no community support was needed for setups (Nintendude didn't say anything about monitors/CRTs. I guess Nintendo probably didn't provide those? I dunno.) Melee discs were used copies. I'm assuming the 64 and Brawl copies were used too. Everything went back to Gaming Generations at the end of it.
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GG got to keep the stuff, but from what has been said Nintendo paid for it and supplied a good bit of it directly from their own warehouses/production lines. The controllers and the WiiUs themselves, I'm pretty sure, came straight from Nintendo.

Also, supposedly, Nintendo supplied a lot of supplies for the N64 set-ups, and possibly even the LCDs. I didn't know about the Melee copies, though.

At the end of the day, probably, what happened was that Nintendo provided a ton of hardware, footed the bill, and then GG "bought" a lot of it and reimbursed Nintendo to some degree. The items then become GGs stock and they sell it.
 
I remember when people were saying shield drops were impractical mid match and now everyone is in the process of implementing them.

Bless Melee
 
Vena said:
GG got to keep the stuff, but from what has been said Nintendo paid for it and supplied a good bit of it directly from their own warehouses/production lines. The controllers and the WiiUs themselves, I'm pretty sure, came straight from Nintendo.

Also, supposedly, Nintendo supplied a lot of supplies for the N64 set-ups, and possibly even the LCDs. I didn't know about the Melee copies, though.

At the end of the day, probably, what happened was that Nintendo provided a ton of hardware, footed the bill, and then GG "bought" a lot of it and reimbursed Nintendo to some degree. The items then become GGs stock and they sell it.
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I don't know if GG will sell that stock, IIRC, Evo works with GG to supply their equipment for games and Juggleguy, a big TO based at Univ of Mich also said his Wii U equipment is being supplied by Gaming Generations for his next big tournament at end of Feb.

It seems that as part of the commitment to Smash and competitive Wii U gaming in general, Nintendo has commissioned Gaming Generations to be their liaison to the TOs in term of equipment supplies and maintaining stock. Remember, by this time next year, we should have Smash 4, Spaltoon, and Pokken as huge competitive games. Imagine any tournament trying to do all 3 games with just community sets. Just not going to happen.
 
Vena said:
GG got to keep the stuff, but from what has been said Nintendo paid for it and supplied a good bit of it directly from their own warehouses/production lines. The controllers and the WiiUs themselves, I'm pretty sure, came straight from Nintendo.

Also, supposedly, Nintendo supplied a lot of supplies for the N64 set-ups, and possibly even the LCDs. I didn't know about the Melee copies, though.

At the end of the day, probably, what happened was that Nintendo provided a ton of hardware, footed the bill, and then GG "bought" a lot of it and reimbursed Nintendo to some degree. The items then become GGs stock and they sell it.
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The way nintendude described it, it was more like the purpose of GG is to supply events with setups. Nintendo probably paid or set them up with apex and provided them with stuff like adapters which are in short supply and refurb wii u's. I think since it was done through GG we'll see more events sponsored by nintendo. The Norcal tourney might be a good pick, since Sheridan has been very quiet about it.
 
Tomohawk said:
The way nintendude described it, it was more like the purpose of GG is to supply events with setups. Nintendo probably paid or set them up with apex and provided them with stuff like adapters which are in short supply and refurb wii u's. I think since it was done through GG we'll see more events sponsored by nintendo. The Norcal tourney might be a good pick, since Sheridan has been very quiet about it.
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So, basically, GG will serve as Nintendo's distributor for these events?
 
Leiru said:
Has this been posted yet? This was said by Zero. Source
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Professor Beef said:
And now there's a Melee thread here.

Kinda funny.
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Honestly speaking while disliking Brawl + Smash4 (Competitive wise), this stuff should be zero tolerance, especially if it ever escalated to booing a game, everyone is there in the spirit of competition and trying to ruin smash for anyone I would kick out of the venue, that said YO DAWG GOTTA LINK TO DA OFFICIAL ASS MELEE THREAD?
 
xezuru said:
Honestly speaking while disliking Brawl + Smash4 (Competitive wise), this stuff should be zero tolerance, especially if it ever escalated to booing a game, everyone is there in the spirit of competition and trying to ruin smash for anyone I would kick out of the venue, that said YO DAWG GOTTA LINK TO DA OFFICIAL ASS MELEE THREAD?
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Yeah what Zero describes makes me sad. Let people have their moment. To be honest though, at home that's all I was thinking, but I wouldn't have shown that at the venue while people were competing and Zero had such clear dominance over the rest of the players.

Doesn't matter what game it is, when that kind of skill level above all others is shown, you gotta respect.
 
Daouzin said:
Yeah what Zero describes makes me sad. Let people have their moment. To be honest though, at home that's all I was thinking, but I wouldn't have shown that at the venue while people were competing and Zero had such clear dominance over the rest of the players.

Doesn't matter what game it is, when that kind of skill level above all others is shown, you gotta respect.
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Melee players and fans were facing this very issue at CEO and Evo recent years. You would think that most Melee centric fans would get how annoying that shit is.
 
While I agree that the disrespectful chanting/booing for non-melee games is unacceptable, I honestly think it wouldn't have happened if things were on schedule. People started to find seats to make sure they had a viewing spot for Melee, and once people realized how long the Wii U sets would take there were murmurs in the crowd that Melee top 8 might have happened that night at all. The situation got to a boiling point where the majority of the people there were invested for long periods of time for one thing but were given another.

I entered the Wii U tournament as well as Melee and was definitely interested to see how the Wii U bracket played out. But the first two best of five matches in the top 8 were a joke compared to what was being shown on the screen just before (Melee doubles). The top 8 got better but it's still not what I would call captivating competitive play - the N64 finals was drawing a more captive audience and louder reactions there yet people around me still complained in the crowd about 64's 'automatic combo setups' etc.

But just because the Melee fans were unimpressed with the other games does not excuse the insulting disrespect chanting and booing causes to the players. Zero was very proud of his win, as he should be, but it was clear that the people there were just happy that Wii U was finished. I felt really bad seeing this...and yet at the same time I was happy that finally the event that I was *really* there to see could start (no I wasn't chanting). I know these things run late all the time but this was a huge delay which was exacerbated by the super bowl occurring at the same time, dangerous snow conditions accumulating and a general concern that the venue would kick everyone out before Melee could conclude. There was no communication until past 9pm about what the plan for Melee was.

The outcry after Apex for PM and against Wii U is poor and selfish behavior. This was the first major tournament for Wii U, and the competition will improve over time. I just don't know how we - yes, I feel dragged into this now - think it's ok to disrespect players of other games when we've had to struggle for so long with that ourselves.
 
Vena said:
So, basically, GG will serve as Nintendo's distributor for these events?
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That's my understanding of it.

UltraClarity said:
Remember, by this time next year, we should have Smash 4, Spaltoon, and Pokken as huge competitive games. Imagine any tournament trying to do all 3 games with just community sets. Just not going to happen.
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I can't wait to see how pokken tournament does, I don't enjoy watching normal tekken, but the game play videos of pokken looked really cool.
 
Scythesurge said:
While I agree that the disrespectful chanting/booing for non-melee games is unacceptable, I honestly think it wouldn't have happened if things were on schedule. People started to find seats to make sure they had a viewing spot for Melee, and once people realized how long the Wii U sets would take there were murmurs in the crowd that Melee top 8 might have happened that night at all. The situation got to a boiling point where the majority of the people there were invested for long periods of time for one thing but were given another.

I entered the Wii U tournament as well as Melee and was definitely interested to see how the Wii U bracket played out. But the first two best of five matches in the top 8 were a joke compared to what was being shown on the screen just before (Melee doubles). The top 8 got better but it's still not what I would call captivating competitive play - the N64 finals was drawing a more captive audience and louder reactions there yet people around me still complained in the crowd about 64's 'automatic combo setups' etc.

But just because the Melee fans were unimpressed with the other games does not excuse the insulting disrespect chanting and booing causes to the players. Zero was very proud of his win, as he should be, but it was clear that the people there were just happy that Wii U was finished. I felt really bad seeing this...and yet at the same time I was happy that finally the event that I was *really* there to see could start (no I wasn't chanting). I know these things run late all the time but this was a huge delay which was exacerbated by the super bowl occurring at the same time, dangerous snow conditions accumulating and a general concern that the venue would kick everyone out before Melee could conclude. There was no communication until past 9pm about what the plan for Melee was.

The outcry after Apex for PM and against Wii U is poor and selfish behavior. This was the first major tournament for Wii U, and the competition will improve over time. I just don't know how we - yes, I feel dragged into this now - think it's ok to disrespect players of other games when we've had to struggle for so long with that ourselves.
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Scar made a pretty solid post about it: http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2upcs0/one_unit_and_the_melee_chant_at_apex/

It's pretty awful, but the worst of it is that that makes two years in a row. At least for Evo it sounds like finals will be on different days. I wouldn't mind seeing something like that for Smash majors too; could keep people more respectful, and let top players that are in multiple games focus a little more.

All the respect in the world for Zero, and I hate that he wouldn't get his time to shine on the biggest stage.
 
emb said:
Scar made a pretty solid post about it: http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2upcs0/one_unit_and_the_melee_chant_at_apex/

It's pretty awful, but the worst of it is that that makes two years in a row. At least for Evo it sounds like finals will be on different days. I wouldn't mind seeing something like that for Smash majors too; could keep people more respectful, and let top players that are in multiple games focus a little more.
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Well the one good thing we can take away from this, is last year was worse and under better circumstances, so there is improvement and now that the behavior has been brought to light we hopefully won't see any of it in the future. Also I don't think finals need to be on different days, if people are being disrespectful just kick them out of the venue, and people will stop.
 
Leiru said:
Has this been posted yet? This was said by Zero. Source
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It's the classic cycle of abuse.

The parent hits the kid, the kid goes on to hit smaller kids, or his own kids when he grows up.

The Melee community has been subject to much abuse from the rest of the fighting game community, and they're passing the abuse on to their cousins in turn.
 
UltraClarity said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSBJAB9DH4Q

This match wasn't streamed because Team Spooky switched to Top 8 Pokemon on Saturday night.

Abadango just straight up murders DKwill with his Pac-man.

Edit:

Hold Back to Block also released a 3 minute video of crowd and player reaction of APEX 2015.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3ZTTFyISFw
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I've been wanting to main Pac-Man because I find him to be the most fun character to play, even though I'm a lot better with Sonic.

Anyway, I'm leaving this here because this needs to go in the Melee OT or whatever type of thread it's going to be:

https://gfycat.com/ParchedUnkemptAmericanindianhorse
 
dmcAxle said:
Links to the smashboard netplay thread and maybe a google doc of all our general locations(country/state)+messenger contact (Whether be for meeting up online or offline) would be pretty neat too.

Also maybe the essential melee guides for those trying to jump in?
Intro to advanced tech part 1-3 on YT for example.
Then theres MIOM articles

and this site by PewPewU and Logan6694 that has a lot of stuff very neatly together: http://smashlounge.com/techniques/Jump+Canceled+Grab
Click to expand...

These are all great suggestions. Everyone please let me know what you'd like to see in the first post of the Melee thread. I won't have it up for at least a week due to school work, so I'm giving you guys ample time to think of things ;)
 
Links to both the other Brother Smash Threads: Smash 4, Project M (to be updated)
Links to Netplay Thread/Guides: Melee, Project M (Not sure how updated the Melee one is, but it is essentially the same as the Project M method.
Link to Wak's How to Play Melee tutorial (Introduction to Melee)
Link to Smashboards
The Smash Brothers: Documentary

Some sort of resource on upcoming Tournaments.

Don't know if Include
Personality/Humor Touches:
How Fast is Melee?
WOMBO COMBO!!!!
Super Smash Bros. Melee Reveal & Reactions (E3 2001)

Man I had some important ones but they slipped my mind.
 
Daouzin said:
I don't think so, I was looking out for one since I mained him for a bit in PM. Not feeling him in Smash 4, but I was hoping top level Dedede play would change my mind.
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That's unfortunate. I find him to be better in 4 than brawl.. Never played PM.

His air game is pretty sick. Uair, bair and nair are strong
 
rocK` said:
That's unfortunate. I find him to be better in 4 than brawl.. Never played PM.

His air game is pretty sick. Uair, bair and nair are strong
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Yeah, all he had in Brawl was down throw chain grabs.

I just wish his spikeys didn't get reflected so easily and I miss his waddle dees.
 
xezuru said:
How Fast is Melee?
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i remember this one. I liked it. i think that it would be appropriate to have this one.

Also, once the thread is made, new people will probably ask "why melee!? it's old". They will probaly want to know "what's different?". This would probably help a lot:

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/wiki/gamedifferences

There's some problems with that article, though:

- it does not include smash 4. Smash 4 is still new, so, obviously, it's still to early to compare it with the other smash games.

- at the end of the article it says:

Melee and Brawl enjoy similarly sized scenes. Handsome and popular commentator Prog says this regarding tournament sizes:

“Major events are basically equal in terms of entrants. There are cases where one outshines, but the numbers are generally close.”
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That's obviously outdated.

- and last, if i remember correctly, that article didn't mention that in both smash 64 and melee there's momentum conservation while in brawl and smash 4 there isn't. I read that article some time ago, so i would have to read it again to be sure. I'll probably do it tomorrow :p

anyway, i think that it would still be worth it to have it.
 
Finally finishing watching.

Smash 4 top 8. First match was... Zzzzzzz. I hope it gets more interesting.

Oh my gooood Rosalina vs Pacman is so boring. Almost 6 minutes for Pacman to take one stock. That was like Hbox vs Armada with Young Link.
 
chaosblade said:
Finally finishing watching.

Smash 4 top 8. First match was... Zzzzzzz. I hope it gets more interesting.

Oh my gooood Rosalina vs Pacman is so boring. Almost 6 minutes for Pacman to take one stock. That was like Hbox vs Armada with Young Link.
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wasnt the first match double diddys? I thought the crowd made it great.
 
Leiru said:
wasnt the first match double diddys? I thought the crowd made it great.
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First set was Sonic and Duck Hunt. Then the second was Rosalina and Pacman, and all three matches took 6 minutes. It was so long I actually forgot the first set happened.

Third set is a Diddy ditto (with Zero sandbagging a match with Falcon).
 
Anth0ny said:
These are all great suggestions. Everyone please let me know what you'd like to see in the first post of the Melee thread. I won't have it up for at least a week due to school work, so I'm giving you guys ample time to think of things ;)
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xezuru said:
Links to both the other Brother Smash Threads: Smash 4, Project M (to be updated)
Links to Netplay Thread/Guides: Melee, Project M (Not sure how updated the Melee one is, but it is essentially the same as the Project M method.
Link to Wak's How to Play Melee tutorial (Introduction to Melee)
Link to Smashboards
The Smash Brothers: Documentary

Some sort of resource on upcoming Tournaments.

Don't know if Include
Personality/Humor Touches:
How Fast is Melee?
WOMBO COMBO!!!!
Super Smash Bros. Melee Reveal & Reactions (E3 2001)

Man I had some important ones but they slipped my mind.
Click to expand...


In terms of netplay you should also link Anther's Ladder site. Its a good place to find matches with other people in every smash game. There are links on that site to netplay guides for Melee, 64, and PM. It would also be cool to link to the 20XX hack pack. This is probably the most common mod to melee and makes playing/training/messing around for fun a lot better.

Also in there is someone making a Melee Minus mod (much like Brawl minus). He uploads some pretty great content to youtube as he works so showing off some videos would be cool.
Falcon Climers
What if Fox had Falco's Shine?
Marth Simulator 2015

Also plugging GRSmash's YouTube channel would be cool too. He makes a lot of Melee content and stays relevant to new tournaments and events in the community.
M2K's Marth is a thing of beauty
Top 10 commentator goofs
Top 10 zero to deaths
 
chaosblade said:
Finally finishing watching.

Smash 4 top 8. First match was... Zzzzzzz. I hope it gets more interesting.

Oh my gooood Rosalina vs Pacman is so boring. Almost 6 minutes for Pacman to take one stock. That was like Hbox vs Armada with Young Link.
Click to expand...

It's disappointing since I like both Rosalina and Pac-man, just not in the same matchup lol

I also wanted to see more of abadango's pac-man on a different matchup though since you don't really get to see a lot of what he can do in that one.
 
xezuru said:
See, these newcomers don't know shit about jungle japes/forward the methodical ass falco.

Forward. He's freakin' good.

Darkrain(Fox) vs Forward(Falco) 2
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Awesome, Forward is a close friend of mine, but he hasn't been that active in a while with exception to a tournament a few weeks back. Didn't know people still knew of him. He used to be the best in AZ.

A Pretty Panda said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyuxePrT3xo
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I despise Shiek, but it's also so beautiful. Melee engine = god tier.
 
Not sure if you'll see this but...

MisterLuffy said:
Any good peach matches for smash 4?
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A Peach lover! yassss

The goddess needs more love =(

I can't recommend to you individual matches, but here are a couple of Peach players in sm4sh you should check out

Dark.Pch
Pink Fresh (sometimes plays Pit also)

Also check out this channel on Youtube for some Peach combo vids.

Dark.Pch also has a Youtube channel with various insight on Peach gameplay.
 
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