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Apple to hold iPhone 4 press conference this Friday

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wmat said:
If they had released the thing with the fucking case bolted onto it from the getgo, this whole PR disaster wouldn't have happened and everybody would have enjoyed their iPhone like they usually did.

this. This. THIS.

With the prospect of a free bumper now with any iphone 4, people need to reevaluate the way they think about the iphone. Decide if you want the iphone as if the bumper is bolted on. That's what Apple is now offering. Then, realize that if you can't stand the bumper whatsoever or something, you ALSO can just take the bumper off at your own risk. If the entire time you're raging about the phone all along then you shouldn't have gotten an iphone, go get an EVO or something if it makes you that angry.

An EVO with extra batteries for extended on-the-go use is in some ways better than an iphone, so you'll be doing yourself a favor if you hate the iphone so much.
 
3rdman said:
Unfair?!?!?!? Are you kidding? They were dragged into this by Apple yesterday and you think it's unfair of them to defend themselves? Apple apologists are truly an amazing species!

the only reason it was justified was because apple didn't clearly distinguish that they weren't looking at the whole "external antenna" debacle.

It shouldn't behoove RIM to crucify apple for stating a fact, that all cellphones are subject to signal degradation when covering the antenna, even through a normal cellphone's plastic.

Are you telling me that it's all well and good that RIM should be applauded for defending themselves with just as much spin about the signal degradation of every cellphone with the antenna at the bottom? They should have owned up to that signal degradation instead of getting all whiny that Apple brought up their names, and THEN said how apple uses an external antenna design that is the major cause of their problems.

As it is they just wrote a retarded paragraph about how RIM designs antennas for a living and avoids external antenna designs, not once addressing how RIM phones, like every other damn phone, are subject to signal degradation when held in a death grip.

They refused to own up to their own signal degradation just as Apple refused to own up to how the external antenna design is a trade-off. Apple, by eliciting an ignorant response by RIM, successfully DID drag them down to the same level, they are no worse than Apple is in PR.
 
JWong said:
Well, at least they came out and admitted it.

It's just like that time when they admitted overpricing the original iPhone during the price drop.

The bumper really kills the "industrial design" look. They probably shouldn't advertise the iPhone4 without a bumper.

I agree. If the bumper is a solution they offer to correct a hardware flaw, they should relaunch the iphone 4 as a phone+bumper total phone. Advertisements etc, should all have the bumper on. People will see that as the phone they are buying, and if you feel like it, go ahead and remove the bumper but realize you are exposing the antenna.

3rdman said:
What really rubs me the wrong way was how they tried (so pathetically) to deflect criticism by showing other phones and how they behave under the death grip. That smacks of desperation and for a company that prides itself on quality, they've basically announced to the world, "You see, we suck as much as anyone else!"

Yes, but the antenna being in the bottom or whatnot is a requirement by the FCC. As is every phone, so it's almost an invisible attack at the FCC for restricting their possible antenna design. People need to realize that phones are always gonna have this type of problem because of the FCC mandate.

The only thing I'm not really understanding is if the antenna surrounds the entire phone as it seems to, why does the bottom left corner get so messed up with a death grip? I understand the antenna separation detuning the antenna if you touch it, but if i cover up the entire antenna with some tape or something, I can still death grip the phone to lose signal. Why is this? shouldn't it still get just as much signal from the upper part of the antenna?
 
Ice Monkey said:
Yes, but the antenna being in the bottom or whatnot is a requirement by the FCC. As is every phone, so it's almost an invisible attack at the FCC for restricting their possible antenna design. People need to realize that phones are always gonna have this type of problem because of the FCC mandate.

Which is true... however, every time I look at how the antennas are distributed on the iPhone 4, I have to wonder why they put that seam in that one location where most people hold their phones. Couldn't they have designed the antennas differently so the seams wouldn't be in areas where people normally hold their phone while making calls?

ckQyN.jpg


gDh4x.jpg
 

sangreal

Member
Ice Monkey said:
Yes, but the antenna being in the bottom or whatnot is a requirement by the FCC. As is every phone, so it's almost an invisible attack at the FCC for restricting their possible antenna design. People need to realize that phones are always gonna have this type of problem because of the FCC mandate.

Nonsense, as you can see on apple.com/antenna


Ice Monkey said:
the only reason it was justified was because apple didn't clearly distinguish that they weren't looking at the whole "external antenna" debacle.

It shouldn't behoove RIM to crucify apple for stating a fact, that all cellphones are subject to signal degradation when covering the antenna, even through a normal cellphone's plastic.

Are you telling me that it's all well and good that RIM should be applauded for defending themselves with just as much spin about the signal degradation of every cellphone with the antenna at the bottom? They should have owned up to that signal degradation instead of getting all whiny that Apple brought up their names, and THEN said how apple uses an external antenna design that is the major cause of their problems.

As it is they just wrote a retarded paragraph about how RIM designs antennas for a living and avoids external antenna designs, not once addressing how RIM phones, like every other damn phone, are subject to signal degradation when held in a death grip.

They refused to own up to their own signal degradation just as Apple refused to own up to how the external antenna design is a trade-off. Apple, by eliciting an ignorant response by RIM, successfully DID drag them down to the same level, they are no worse than Apple is in PR.

Other phones do not have the same problem as the iPhone. Squeezing the shit out of your phone with absurd grips is not the issue -- and even then its not so easy to reproduce on most other phones.
 

LCfiner

Member
Zombie James said:
Which is true... however, every time I look at how the antennas are distributed on the iPhone 4, I have to wonder why they put that seam in that one location where most people hold their phones. Couldn't they have designed the antennas differently so the seams wouldn't be in areas where people normally hold their phone while making calls?

http://imgur.com/ckQyN.jpg[IMG]

[IMG]http://imgur.com/gDh4x.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]


yeah, this is what I suspect we'll see with iPhone 5. there may have been some manufacturing limitation necessitating that the non conducting point be on a straight surface but I bet they'll make sure there's a way to put it on a corner in the next rev.

or do some funky internal work to prevent the bridging from occurring if that line is still on a straight edge.

btw, Ice Monkey, Antennas don't need to be on the bottom. The FCC only mandates that there be a max amount of radiation hitting the head. most phone makers do this by putting the antenna on the bottom, but not all.

And the iPhone antenna isn't on the bottom. it's around the sides. only the junction between the two antennas is near the bottom (and right at the top)
 
LCfiner said:
yeah, this is what I suspect we'll see with iPhone 5. there may have been some manufacturing limitation necessitating that the non conducting point be on a straight surface but I bet they'll make sure there's a way to put it on a corner in the next rev.

or do some funky internal work to prevent the bridging from occurring if that line is still on a straight edge.

btw, Ice Monkey, Antennas don't need to be on the bottom. The FCC only mandates that there be a max amount of radiation hitting the head. most phone makers do this by putting the antenna on the bottom, but not all.

And the iPhone antenna isn't on the bottom. it's around the sides. only the junction between the two antennas is near the bottom (and right at the top)

This really makes me detest apple more than everything else combined that you could complain about in iphones past and present. Why the hell did they have to build that weak spot there if they weren't restricted that the weak spots be at the bottom? I was under the impression that the majority of the degradable antenna area was near the bottom, since I can still make some signal loss by gripping the iphone uncomfortably with a bumper on (albeit not by much).

sangreal said:
Other phones do not have the same problem as the iPhone. Squeezing the shit out of your phone with absurd grips is not the issue -- and even then its not so easy to reproduce on most other phones.

agreed. but to be fair, the squeezing the shit out of other phones is what apple was pointing out, and it's true. They just aren't addressing the insane weak spot issue. I do appreciate them at least addressing the idiots on youtube death gripping (in the squeezing the shit out way) their phone and raging at apple for it.
 

Keylime

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Ordered me some of the Vinyl Tape wrap action from awrapforthat.com...hope it'll make my phone sexy and weaken my reception issues.

Seems like from reading around online that the tape can help, even if it's not 100%.

Either way, it'll make my phone look like a delicious ice cream sandwich.
 
Now i'm really angry. Looking at the picture you posted zombie james, it seems ridiculously obvious they could have just freaking made the seam of the antennas at the top middle and the bottom middle. Nobody would have ever noticed the issue, because then basically Steve's "you're holding it wrong" would have been absolutely right. Dear God what the hell were they smoking?
 

KtSlime

Member
Ice Monkey said:
Now i'm really angry. Looking at the picture you posted zombie james, it seems ridiculously obvious they could have just freaking made the seam of the antennas at the top middle and the bottom middle. Nobody would have ever noticed the issue, because then basically Steve's "you're holding it wrong" would have been absolutely right. Dear God what the hell were they smoking?

Could it just be possible, that the length of the antenna (from break to break) has something to do with it's effectiveness in getting signal, I mean, they are trying to get radio waves at certain frequencies, maybe this was the optimum length, location for getting the signal in this particular case. Don't you think if they knew how to build an external antenna as the case without a weak-spot that they would have? Or am I just giving too much credit to the PHDs at Apple.
 
Jill Sandwich said:
Hasn't this thread ranted itself to completion yet?

I wish. There's just a few people who can't move on with life. At least it gives my friends and I something else to laugh at on the Internet. :lol
 
ivedoneyourmom said:
Could it just be possible, that the length of the antenna (from break to break) has something to do with it's effectiveness in getting signal, I mean, they are trying to get radio waves at certain frequencies, maybe this was the optimum length, location for getting the signal in this particular case. Don't you think if they knew how to build an external antenna as the case without a weak-spot that they would have? Or am I just giving too much credit to the PHDs at Apple.
Yes, apparently you are. Otherwise we wouldn't be having this issue?
 
And on it goes... until September 30th

iPhone Defense Prompts New Debate
by Don Clark, Niraj Sheth and Geoffrey A. Fowler
The Wall Street Journal
Monday, July 19, 2010

Steve Jobs's attempt to close the door on criticism of Apple Inc.'s (NasdaqGS: AAPL - News) latest iPhone ignited another debate: Are competing smartphones just as prone to reception problems or does Apple have a unique design flaw?

Mr. Jobs, in a news conference Friday, conceded that reception on the new iPhone 4—which has antennas housed in an exposed metal band around the phone's outside edge—can be degraded by the way a user holds the device. He also said the new iPhone drops slightly more calls than its predecessor.

But Mr. Jobs insisted that the problem, which occurs in areas with relatively weak cellular coverage, affects few users and is shared by other smartphones.

Apple showed videos of tests it conducted that indicated similar signal drops when phones by Research In Motion Ltd. (NasdaqGS: RIMM - News), HTC Corp. (OTC BB: HUTC.OB - News) and Samsung Electronics (KSE: 005930.KS - News) are grasped by users.

His arguments were swiftly rejected by competitors, including RIM and Motorola Inc., which said they have deliberately avoided Apple's approach of locating antennas on the phone's edge. Some other cellular-industry veterans also called Apple's antenna design a mistake, noting that it creates a uniquely sensitive spot on the lower left side that causes signals to degrade when touched with a hand or a finger.

"The proof of that [it being a flaw] is that it is so easily fixed," said Martin Cooper, an engineer who helped lead Motorola's development of handheld cellphones in the 1970s. He noted that Apple has said adding a case largely addresses the attenuation issue, and predicted the company will find a simple way to isolate antennas in future models to eliminate the problem without a case.

Antenna experts agree with Mr. Jobs's statements that all cellphones are affected to some degree by a user's touch. For that reason, designers typically go to considerable lengths to minimize the antenna's contact with the hand, in some cases adding duplicate antennas to reduce the potential signal weakening that engineers call attenuation.

But some experts and competitors questioned the validity of Apple's tests of competing products, which it posted on its website. They said the science behind the tests wasn't clear and the visual evidence—a drop in coverage bars on the phones' screens—isn't very meaningful since the software that measures signals isn't standardized.

Jason Lohn, a professor of electrical engineering at Carnegie Mellon University, said the competing phones Apple used in its videos "don't have the antenna's bare metal exposed to the hand, so I'd be surprised if the effect of the hand would be as pronounced as it was on the iPhone 4."


Sanjay Jha, Motorola's co-CEO, said Sunday his company's tests showed that the amount radio signals decline on the iPhone 4 when a user's hands touch the sensitive spot on the phone's edge is significantly greater than the attenuation when other smartphones are held.

Not all experts think the iPhone 4's design is a bad idea. Haim Harel, president and founder of wireless chip maker Magnolia Broadband, said Apple may have created a design "breakthrough" if it can perfect external antennas for cellphones.

The approach, which saves space for other functions in a phone, was also praised by Franz Birkner, CEO of antenna technology maker Rayspan Corp. "But the challenge of innovation is it inevitably comes with risk," he said.

An Apple spokeswoman declined to comment Sunday, referring back to Mr. Jobs's comments Friday. The CEO said the problem had been "blown out of proportion" by the media, stating that about one half of 1% of users had complained about it. Still, Apple offered free cases or "bumpers" to alleviate the problem.

Concern about the iPhone 4's reception was elevated last week when Consumer Reports said it couldn't recommend the product after conducting its own reception tests.

After Mr. Jobs's presentation Friday, the organization called the offer of free cases "a good first step" but said it isn't a long-term solution, and that it still didn't recommend the phone.

Attensity360, which studies consumer sentiment on blogs and other social media, said Mr. Job's press conference appeared to be a qualified success. In the two days after the press conference, the amount of negative conversation about the iPhone 4 on such English-language sites fell 30% compared with the prior seven days, the firm found.

But some consumers aren't satisfied. Jason Wong, a 29-year-old college math lecturer in Southern California, said he plans to return his iPhone 4. "I feel it is kind of stupid to have paid $200 for a phone that I can't hold in the natural way," he said.

Mr. Jobs's move to pull his competitors into the debate was a flawed tactic, said Richard Torrenzano, chief executive of Torrenzano Group, a strategic-communications firm in New York whose corporate services include crisis management.

"It's totally the wrong approach to take," Mr. Torrenzano. "There's no benefit to attacking those competitors."


Mr. Torrenzano was speaking Sunday from Italy on his iPhone 3, which he said he loves. He also said he considers Mr. Jobs a great CEO. But he said the decision could hurt the company's brand and stock value.
 

Blackhead

Redarse
MassiveAttack said:
And on it goes... until September 30th
I'd say it was a brilliant move as the media and most consumers lapped it up :(

How Steve Jobs turned a finger spot into a death grip
Posted by Seth Weintraub

The PR magician has done it again, dumbfounding both the media and rival companies. I'm in awe.

If anyone can somehow remember last week (I think maybe Consumer Reports might be the only one who can), the issue with the iPhone 4 was that when you connected the two antennas with your flesh, the signal dropped.  I've posted a few of the hundreds of YouTubes below showing this (watch them quick before they get pulled!).  That's why the trusted testing agency gave it a "can't reccomend" rating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNmXrVNeGzs

At the Apple (AAPL) press event on Friday, somehow, right in front of a crowd of journalists (depicted at the end of the Taiwanese video below), the 'finger spot' that cut signal somehow turned into a more universal 'death grip' which also cuts signal but in just about every mobile device ever made.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn-YesqzvNk

At the Q&A, one blogger, Ryan Block from GDGT, asked the one real question that needed an answer.  He was given a non-answer by Apple VP Bob Mansfield:

n94vv.png


Taken from Jason Snell's Macworld.com liveblog of the event

Then the finger issue was dropped, never to be heard of again -- anywhere. Apple put up its "change the message" antenna page  showing 'death grips' across a wide variety of mobile devices.  This isn't what Consumer Reports had made its recommendations on.  Nowhere did Apple address the real issue: the finger spot.


I don't know how Steve Jobs does it, but this somehow became the message.   He actually changed the message entirely from 'finger spot' to 'death grip.' Everyone magically forgot about the two antennas being bridged -- the finger spot!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gb3aQ5XoQw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T90RwVaWfqo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KJSf8Par7I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKs9AXoHQvo

The four companies that Jobs mentioned – HTC (Eris - there is my Google tie!), Nokia, Samsung and Blackberry – all issued statements saying that they've tested and the death grip doesn't affect their phones.  *Sigh*

Of course it affects your phones!  When you squeeze a bunch of electronics and antennas together and surround them with a handful of signal-blocking water, you will lose signal.  Like Steve Jobs said, "every device ever made has that same issue.  That is just physics."

Inexplicably, the companies took the bait and helped change the message for Apple!  They could have just said, "It is true that when you squeeze any phone it hurts the signal, but there is no part of our phone that, when touched by a finger, causes the signal to drop significantly." (BTW, no charge for that.)

So, of course people who own HTC, Nokia (NOK), Samsung and Blackberry devices took to YouTube demonstrating how death grips hurt their signal.  Then of course the blogs all followed suit right on message saying that the iPhone 4's problem was everyone's problem.

As TiPb notes:

One look at BlackBerry on Boy Genius, Nokia on Electronista, Samsung on InformationWeek, HTC on Engadget, many others via Daring Fireball, and even manufactures' own warnings against touching their antennas in their own manuals via 1FPS shows how they've become part of a story that last week was all about Apple.​

But, the death grip was never the issue that made the iPhone 4 unique.  The issue was with the 'finger spot.'  The unique design of the external antennas makes it so that bridging them with flesh cuts the signal.

That's why Apple is giving out free bumpers to everyone, because that blocks the bridging of the antennas, not because it blocks death gripping!

For the record, I don't think this whole thing, beyond Apple's handling of it, is a big deal.  Get a free bumper, don't worry about it.  Apple might have to change the specs on the iPhone 4 to include the added girth and weight, but I don't see it as changing your ability to use the phone.  It is still a great phone -- as Consumer Reports has always suggested.

Speaking of CR, the one agency that probably caused Apple to have a press conference stuck to their guns and didn't change their outlook on the device.  I've gained a new respect for them and their independence. (Charred: My Emphasis

Some day in the not-so-distant future, I think there there will be a curriculum in PR, -- based on Jobs' magic -- that will be required to work in the field.   The man has control over his message and the media in a way that makes Don Draper look like Gerald Ford.

Again, I am just in awe.

(Thanks to @ReneRitchie from Tipb.com for proving I'm not insane!)​


My opinion of the Apple pundit community has never dropped so low that they're practically in the gutter.
 

shantyman

WHO DEY!?
Charred Greyface said:
I'd say it was a brilliant move as the media and most consumers lapped it up :(

Why do you care? Do you even own one? If Apple is such an evil institution to you just don't buy their products, end of story.
 

CrankyJay

Banned
Raistlin said:
I don't see how the debate raging on is surprising. So much of the conference was BS

Raistlin doesn't own an iPhone by the way. And since this has surfaced he has claimed he's no longer buying one. So what are you hanging around form, hrmmmm? :lol
 

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
CrankyJay said:
Raistlin doesn't own an iPhone by the way. And since this has surfaced he has claimed he's no longer buying one. So what are you hanging around form, hrmmmm? :lol

That's funny, I seem to recall texting you last week how my plan was to:

  • wait at least for info, if not some impressions of project emerald
  • compare it with the white iPhone 4 units that are being released then
  • if those both fail, fall back to a unlocked N1

Starting to ring a bell?

I was bitching that Google killing the N1 was throwing a monkey wrench in my plan?

Should I dig up the actual texts, or would you rather? :lol










BTW - when are we seeing Inception?
 

CrankyJay

Banned
Raistlin said:
That's funny, I seem to recall texting you last week how my plan was to:

  • wait at least for info, if not some impressions of project emerald
  • compare it with the white iPhone 4 units that are being released then
  • if those both fail, fall back to a unlocked N1

Starting to ring a bell?

I was bitching that Google killing the N1 was throwing a monkey wrench in my plan?

Should I dig up the actual texts, or would you rather? :lol










BTW - when are we seeing Inception?
WTF. You didn't txt me all those bullet points. :lol

You just lamented that the n1 was done after the next batch.

I'll go this week. Prefer a weeknight tho.
 

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
CrankyJay said:
WTF. You didn't txt me all those bullet points. :lol

You just lamented that the n1 was done after the next batch.

and ...

here ...

we ...

go ...



me: Ah crap, google is going to stop selling the N1 once the current shipment is done

Fucks up my strategy :(

crankyJ: You have no strat.

me: It was wait to see project emerald & look at then current iphone situation. N1 as my fallback

me: Oh and btw I do have a fender strat :p

crankyJ: Get a droid x or wait for a droid 2

me: nu



The above was the EXACT text-by-text conversation :lol

Not only did I state I was going to look at the iPhone situation then ... you actually recommended for me to NOT get an iPhone :lol








weeknight sounds good :p Usual chili's pre-game?
 

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
numble said:
If your PM inbox is full, you can delete some older messages.

Heh ... we're actually friends. It was texts, not PM's





If I had to guess, he must have been holding his phone wrong when I sent that text :p

*ba dum tssss*






[EDIT]

BAH ... SELF OWNAGE

all my detectors am broken

[/EDIT]




CrankyJay said:
Can you show me how? Need screenshots and ms paint drawings.

:lol living up to your name now aren't 'ya
 

CrankyJay

Banned
Raistlin said:
Heh ... we're actually friends. It was texts, not PM's





If I had to guess, he must have been holding his phone wrong when I sent that text :p

*ba dum tssss*










:lol living up to your name now aren't 'ya
Whoooooooosh.

It was the Gaf passive aggressive way of telling us to bring our convo to pm.
 

C.Dark.DN

Banned
curls said:
So the moral of that story is to avoid touching a 1cm section of the iphone located near the bottom of the device during a phone call.

If avoiding the 1cm section is impossible for you then you can:

A: use a free bumper
B: wait for an update
C: return it and buy a different phone.
It's easy to avoid the section during calls. Not so easy when browsing the Internet. It effects download speeds too.
 

Futureman

Member
I haven't been following too closely, but...

I remember initial reports that the reception problem only affected some phones, not all. Is this still the case? How can that be? From what I'm reading on the last page here, it's a design problem with the antennas. If that's true, shouldn't it affect all phones?
 
Futureman said:
I haven't been following too closely, but...

I remember initial reports that the reception problem only affected some phones, not all. Is this still the case? How can that be? From what I'm reading on the last page here, it's a design problem with the antennas. If that's true, shouldn't it affect all phones?

The design problem is present in all phones but there are other variables that come into play like actual signal strength in your area and the conductivity of your skin.
 
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