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[john tv]

GC had a few great games but overall I think I'm gonna look back on it in 10 years as one of Nintendo's lesser efforts. N64 had so many AAA games... GC just didn't. Pretty sad considering how much potential GC looked to have when it first appeared.

EDIT: Also, isn't it funny how much bullshit the "Nintendo Difference" turned out to be? They spent that E3 bitching about how everyone else just puts out the same old shit, and then they went and released almost nothing original at all for the GC. WTF? Practically every one of their big games was either a remake or a sequel of some sort.

 

[ourumov]

EDIT: Also, isn't it funny how much bullshit the "Nintendo Difference" turned out to be? They spent that E3 bitching about how everyone else just puts out the same old shit, and then they went and released almost nothing original at all for the GC. WTF? Practically every one of their big games was either a remake or a sequel of some sort.

Yep...that's sad. I would love to see Nintendo with 100% freedom of development, which they don't have. The Nintendo fans are constantly asking for new Zeldas and Marios. Just imagine we could duplicate Nintendo. One continues doing the same old shit while the other one is a 3rd party with no pass. It would be great to see new approachs to the platfform genre from Nintendo (thinks in a Sly Racoon game made by Ninty )

 

[AniHawk]

Just using it as a way to say half of Nintendo’s titles this gen are glorified remakes/ports of N64 predecessors.

...Right.

 

[Do The Mario]

...Right.

Exactly right

How have games like

F Zero
Mario Kart
1080
Wave Race
Mario Golf

Improved over there N64 counterparts if you don’t include the graphical upgrade?
Yes the tracks and courses are new but you guys must be playing different games to me because I swear I am playing a remake of a title i played years ago.

Super Mario Sunshine was pure platforming perfection in the areas without flood but way to forgiving with the water pack.

Don’t get me started on WW

But I Loved

SSBM and Pikmin

SSBM is a prime example of a franchise that wasn’t just a graphical remake, a ton of depth was added to this title it became the quintessential virtual Nintendo museum.

 

[AniHawk]

Exactly right

How have games like

F Zero
Mario Kart
1080
Wave Race
Mario Golf

Improved over there N64 counterparts if you don’t include the graphical upgrade?
Yes the tracks and courses are new but you guys must be playing different games to me because I swear I am playing a remake of a title i played years ago.

Super Mario Sunshine was pure platforming perfection in the areas without flood but way to forgiving with the water pack.

But I Loved

SSBM and Pikmin

SSBM is a prime example of a franchise that wasn’t just a graphical remake, a ton of depth was added to this title it became the quintessential virtual Nintendo museum.

The thing with your "ports" is that they can be applied to basically any sports or racing game.

Don’t get me started on WW

It's a flawed game, but it's not bad. It even moves the series forward in some areas that made it very interesting. Everyone here already knows about it since I've gone on and on about it since its release so I'll let you look it up. :|

 

[Kiriku]

I know I enjoyed Wind Waker more than OoT and Majora's Mask.

 

[Do The Mario]

The thing with your "ports" is that they can be applied to basically any sports or racing game.



It's a flawed game, but it's not bad. It even moves the series forward in some areas that made it very interesting. Everyone here already knows about it since I've gone on and on about it since its release so I'll let you look it up. :|

Personally I thought the graphics and art style were awesome in WW were awesome, it was the difficulty and small game world that ruined it for me. The reversal system seemed a bit cheap,

Anyway the game was a bit of a tease IMO I was just itching to stumble across a vast metropolis.

 

[Grubdog]

What do you expect? Hang gliding in Mario Golf?

F-Zero GX improved on F-Zero X by offering a story mode (with FMV and new challenges), customizable crafts, tighter controls, as well as the standard new courses, rock solid framerate, better graphics and more everything. Why are you complaining about that? If they changed more than that it wouldn't be a sequel, it'd be a whole new game.

and are you forgetting MKDDs two person in a kart system?

Those games are sequels, you buy them if you liked the original games and are looking for more. If you want an entirely new game, then buy Pikmin, Animal Crossing, Wario Ware or something. Nintendo sequels already change and innovate more than 90% of other generic sequels on the market anyway.

 

[AniHawk]

Nintendo sequels already change and innovate more than 90% of other generic sequels on the market anyway.

Get a flame-retardant suit on.

I'm going through UYA right now... I thought it'd be more akin to Going Commando. It's still fun, but not as good as GC so far.

 

[Virgin Wii]

Wind Waker >>> Ocarina of Time

Wind Waker controlled better, was more fun to explore (the sea overworld and all those little puzzle islands rocked), and had a better storyline. Ocarina was SLIGHTLY more challenging (I hardly ever died in either game the first time through; difficulty shouldn't be a factor because both were piss easy), had more dungeons, and that fishing game.

Wind Waker had a lack of dungeons and that annoying wind change song. Ocarina had shitty controls, a dreadfully dull overworld, a really bad art style, and a horribly executed plot.

I think Wind Waker's pros easily outweigh Ocarina's, and Ocarina just has way too many cons. Wind Waker is just a fun game to play; when I played Ocarina, I just wanted to finish it and be done.

Majora is probably better than both.

F-Zero X > F-Zero GX

F-Zero X has more tracks (X Cup!!), more "tricks" to the tracks, and it controls better. F-Zero GX has better graphics, better music, more modes, longer tracks, and more variety in its tracks.

GX looks better on paper, but I think X is more fun to play. It's close, though, and both are classic games.

That's about all I can comment on. I never did like Mario, so I never played Mario 64 or Mario Sunshine. Never played a Mario Party or Mario Golf. I played Mario Kart 64 but disliked it so much I didn't bother with DD. And I love Blue Storm but never played Wave Race 64.

Of course, none of that matters when Metroid Prime is on the Gamecube.

 

[Do The Mario]

Nintendo sequels already change and innovate more than 90% of other generic sequels on the market anyway.

Meh I am not going to bother arguing with you, if you are satisfied with Nintendo’s whoring of franchises keep purchasing.

 

[Grubdog]

Meh I am not going to bother arguing with you, if you are satisfied with Nintendo’s whoring of franchises keep purchasing.

Oh, because it seemed like you were just arguing for the sake of arguing. Better bail out before you're forced to come up with valid reasons!

I haven't mentioned Super Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker in this thread because it's about which GC games are better than the N64 versions, but I was extremely disappointed in both of them.

 

[Do The Mario]

Oh, because it seemed like you were just arguing for the sake of arguing. Better bail out before you're forced to come up with valid reasons!

I will give you one real statistic and that is Nintendo’s console and Hardware sales are down, why do you think this is?

Nothing to do with the blatant whoring of several franchises, I could provide spoilers for several Zelda games with one sentence. Several games this gen have been nothing but graphical upgrades of N64 titles. Yes small tweaks have been made to the gameplay but not much has changed at all.


I want to see Nintendo building a new franchise then making an extra Zelda game each gen. The more Nintendo whores there traditional franchises the less people are interested in them and the lifespan of the franchise is reduced.

 

[AniHawk]

I will give you one real statistic and that is Nintendo’s console and Hardware sales are down, why do you think this is?

There's a variety of reasons. The main one being that Nintendo had a poor image coming off the N64 age, and they had poor marketing for three years running on their system now. The market is split between two competitors and one dominator. Meaning most people have a PS2 and either a GC or an Xbox on the side. Not so much the case last gen, with a lot of people owning a PSX, and some owning a N64 (which to me explains huge sales- N64-only people such as myself waited for the next big thing to come out and we all rushed to buy it).

Nothing to do with the blatant whoring of several franchises, I could provide spoilers for several Zelda games with one sentence. Several games this gen have been nothing but graphical upgrades of N64 titles. Yes small tweaks have been made to the gameplay but not much has changed at all.

The Zelda whoring needs to go. Get Capcom off of Zelda and get them doing some sort of Kid Icarus game for chrissakes. Mario's kind of a lost cause, but the games are usually fun at least. You go to the extreme side of the spectrum by saying the games are simply upgraded graphically.

I want to see Nintendo building a new franchise then making an extra Zelda game each gen. The more Nintendo whores there traditional franchises the less people are interested in them and the lifespan of the franchise is reduced.

The only games I think Nintendo should be able to get away with are Pokemon and Mario. Mario Doing Shit games have always sold well, and people recognize the brand. Same with Pokemon- and people love to pick up the latest Pokemon game and give it a go. Not really the same thing with Zelda. I have a feeling despite its launch demo boost status, that Metroid Prime Hunters will bomb as well.

 

[Do The Mario]

Yep i am in agreement with ani just to add one more thing

Stop treating PAL territories like shit

Yes it world be great to see franchises like Earthbound, Kid Icarus or even put some effort into a new Kirby game that doesn’t suck.

It world be exciting for Nintendo to create a few new franchises.

 

[ravingloon]

I will give you one real statistic and that is Nintendo’s console and Hardware sales are down, why do you think this is?

Nothing to do with the blatant whoring of several franchises, I could provide spoilers for several Zelda games with one sentence. Several games this gen have been nothing but graphical upgrades of N64 titles. Yes small tweaks have been made to the gameplay but not much has changed at all.


I want to see Nintendo building a new franchise then making an extra Zelda game each gen. The more Nintendo whores there traditional franchises the less people are interested in them and the lifespan of the franchise is reduced.

I have to tell you, your entire logic sucks ass. Nintendo has been using the same characters for generations... that's not the issue. The issue is the vast majority are not of the same quality as the N64 games. As for blaming this for the position Nintendo is in, do you look at the line-ups of the other companies? They're all sequels too. If sequels equaled bad sales, all 3 consoles would be battling for last place.

And please, people, don't saint other companies for coming up with original titles. When you have shit, you need to come out with new titles. And when they finially get something of quality that sells, they release "expansion packs" every 12 months that truly are mindless sequels. Nothing remotely new from the previous year. This is entirely about the quality suffering from last generation IMO. Nintendo's declining market share is from inept management.

 

[AniHawk]

Stop treating PAL territories like shit

You think they'd stop now, after over 15 years?

 

[Do The Mario]

I have to tell you, your entire logic sucks ass. Nintendo has been using the same characters for generations... that's not the issue. The issue is the vast majority are not of the same quality as the N64 games. As for blaming this for the position Nintendo is in, do you look at the line-ups of the other companies? They're all sequels too. If sequels equaled bad sales, all 3 consoles would be battling for last place.

And please, people, don't saint other companies for coming up with original titles. When you have shit, you need to come out with new titles. And when they finially get something of quality that sells, they release "expansion packs" every 12 months that truly are mindless sequels. Nothing remotely new from the previous year. This is entirely about the quality suffering from last generation IMO. Nintendo's declining market share is from inept management.

Please go read my posts I say that BOTH

There games are not of the same quality as the N64 titles and
Nintendo has been over whoring, and yes it does make a difference how many times has the same Zelda story been done to death? The franchise won’t survive if they keep churning unoriginal out games.

 

[ravingloon]

How many times has GTA been redone? It's the same shit over and over and sells more copies with each release (Not that it isn't fun). I just think these are two entirely seperate subjects that have nothing to do with one another.

 

[Do The Mario]

How many times has GTA been redone? It's the same shit over and over and sells more copies with each release (Not that it isn't fun). I just think these are two entirely seperate subjects that have nothing to do with one another.

Yes but GTA is a relatively new franchise and is still selling well, look at super Mario brothers 1-3. The problem will come late next generation or in generation after that when the company can’t make the gameplay and gameworld fresh and exciting.

GTA is a slightly different case then a game like Mario as GTA titles just need to get more realistic while a Mario title needs to have new ideas and concepts to make it interesting.

The more Nintendo whores the franchise the more ideas they need to come up with to keep them exciting !

Do you actually want Nintendo to continue whoring franchisees?

 

[CajoleJuice]

To get back on topic, I think SSB Melee is better than SSB 64 and F-Zero GX is better than F-Zero X. That's about it though.

 

[Grubdog]

Do you actually want Nintendo to continue whoring franchisees?

As long as they continue to be great games I don't give a shit.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

As long as they continue to be great games I don't give a shit.

I don't agree with that as much. They do need to make new franchises because the house that Mario built is not going to be strong next gen if its more Mario.. etc. As much as I love the Mario, does he need to:

GOLF
RACE
TENNIS
PLATFORM
PARTY
CONSOLE
GBA
PINBALL
REMAKE ON DS

etc etc. He's a great mascot and undoubtedly, a lot of the N-games are great.

But you know what.. I don't think I'll be picking up the following franchises next gen if they're not stupendously improved (because the cube versions won't that much better)

FZERO
SSMB:REV
WAVERACE
1080:3

This gen: the titles that I felt a great newness and connectedness with from Nintendo are:

LUIGIS
PIKMIN 1 + 2
SMS
LOZ WW
MP

and they should have fucking released GIFTIA and DOSHIN/CUBIVORE cheap ($20) for the US/EURO crowd. Fuck I want these for my collection. And because they are NEW titles.

Their GBA lineup > GC lineup

 

[SantaC]

Well the N64 had more quality games with OoT, MM, PD, Golden Eye triple, banjo, Mario64 AAA titles.

 

[seismologist]

It's sad. Going from N64 graphics to this gen didn't seem to help the gameplay much.

 

[radioheadrule83]

I love how Nintendo's biggest competitor is always itself. They are constantly living in their own shadow, and simultaneously faced with the danger of overshadowing third party offerings whenever they release a game.

Instead of comparing Nintendo's franchise games to their predecessors (all of which are a unique twist this generation, welcome or not)... try to compare Nintendo titles to those of most publishers in the world. I think you'll find theyre still on top of their game.

Further more: even if you prefer N64 iterations of their biggest franchises, the ones on offer on Gamecube are all great games, some of the best in their respective genres across all consoles. And they all have better framerate, graphics in general, more intuitive control, improved camera systems, when compared with their predecessors. And most importantly, there is still a whole lot of fun to be had out of them. Despite the move to optical disks there's still no noticable load time.

 

[Red Dolphin]

Ok the only game that is definately better is:

* Smash Bros Melee > Smash Bros

The ONLY thing I would change is to prehaps slow down the gameplay a tiny bit. The original is too slow by today's standards but I think Melee is a little too fast. I'd like to see a sequel find some middle ground in the speed department.

Games that are about the same:

* F-Zero GX = F-Zero X

F-Zero GX brings the awesome course design and 60FPS of F-Zero X but with outstanding graphics, lots of new modes and unlockables. But F-Zero X had much better music, the handling I liked a bit better and the X Cup.

* Wave Race BS = Wave Race 64

The games are quite different to each other which is part of the reason I like them about the same. The original game was extremely fun to play in Time Trial over and over again long after you beat the game due to the consistancy of the wave conditions.
However, the new game introduces more characters, different weather conditions, and a new control/handling system. Not that fun for time trial though.

* Mario Kart 64 = Mario Kart DD

I almost was going to say I liked 64 better but it's too close to tell. I much prefer the controls of the N64 game and the use of the hop/powerslide. DD just feels too dumbed down in this department.

N64's battle mode rapes DD's battle mode.

Racing is about the same. However I'm disapointed in DD that when you fall of the stage you don't fall onto a lower section and instead get transported back onto the track really quickly. Takes a lot of the fun out of it. Some of the best moments in the N64 game are things like trying to do massive shortcuts in Wario Stadium or Rainbow Road or make racers fall of the big jump in Wario Stadium or Royal Raceway.

I like DD's addition of character specfic items, the two character system and not being
able to hold items behind your kart to protect you and instead having to fire projectiles backwards to block incoming items/attacks.
I like the tighter, smaller course design in DD as it feels more like the SNES version in that you can see other racers more and interact and bump into them more.

1 player mode is far better in DD then 64. A.I. is much much better and doesn't cheat (well no where near as badly as the n64 version).

Having said all that though, if you gave me a remake of Mario Kart 64 with a rock solid 60FPS it would kick DD's arse!

Games that aren't as good as N64 versions.

* Super Mario 64 > Super Mario Sunshine

I actually went back and played both recently and it's a lot closer then I used to think. Mario 64 biggest strengths are its large number of stages and themes and better music. However, I like Mario Sunshine's hidden stages, increased difficulty, and those tight ropes just ROCK. Sunshine's "cleaning" sucks but I actually like the waterpack for it's other cool uses.

* Zelda: OoT + MM >>>> Zelda WW

Sorry but WW has the worst dungeon design in the series. OoT + MM's dungeons are FAR better then WW's which are really bland, have uninspired layout, and are really linear. Fighting would have been far better in WW then OoT and MM but the game is so gawd damn dumbed down in the difficulty/damage meter department that it ruins it.

* 1080 > 1080 avalaunche.

Even with only 6 courses in the original 1080, I find it better then the GCN one as the controls are just so much better. And the trick system is so dumbed down in Avalaunche. I do like the enviromental effects in Avalaunche and if the game had a few more stages like the very last stage (massive avalaunche) it would have been much better.




MAN I hope there are people that actually read this

EDIT: hopefully it's a bit easier to read.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Wave Race: Blue Storm > Wave Race 64

Super Smash Bros Melee > Super Smash Bros

Mario Kart: Double Dash!! > Mario Kart 64

F-Zero GX > F-Zero X

Animal Crossing > Animal Forest

Paper Mario 2 > Paper Mario

I like this list. Id also add Mario Golf:Toadstool Tour>Mario Golf 64

 

[radioheadrule83]

I read it, and agree with you on everything except Wind Waker. Ocarina of Time is overrated IMO.

I still think that to avoid being overly critical they should be compared with games in the same generation on other consoles. I think a lot of them hold up very well.

 

[Jacobi]

Sorry but imo Wind Waker > Oot. Oot was just boring and no fun.

 

[snapty00]

Super Smash Bros. Melee > Super Smash Bros.
Super Mario 64 >>>>>>> Super Mario Sunshine
Ocarina of Time >>>>>>> Wind Waker
Wave Race 64 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue Storm
1080 Snowboarding >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1080 Avalanche
Double Dash One Player > Mario Kart 64 One Player
Mario Kart 64 Multiplayer >>>>>>>>> Double Dash Multiplayer
F-Zero X > F-Zero GX
Paper Mario 2 = Paper Mario (both shit)

 

[radioheadrule83]

Super Smash Bros. Melee > Super Smash Bros.
Super Mario 64 >>>>>>> Super Mario Sunshine
Ocarina of Time >>>>>>> Wind Waker
Wave Race 64 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue Storm
1080 Snowboarding >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1080 Avalanche
Double Dash One Player > Mario Kart 64 One Player
Mario Kart 64 Multiplayer >>>>>>>>> Double Dash Multiplayer
F-Zero X > F-Zero GX
Paper Mario 2 = Paper Mario (both shit)

snapty00

me

 

[SantaC]

gamecube rpg > N64 rpg.

 

[Link316]

Super Smash Bros. Melee > Super Smash Bros.
Super Mario 64 >>>>>>> Super Mario Sunshine
Ocarina of Time >>>>>>> Wind Waker
Wave Race 64 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue Storm
1080 Snowboarding >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1080 Avalanche
Double Dash One Player > Mario Kart 64 One Player
Mario Kart 64 Multiplayer >>>>>>>>> Double Dash Multiplayer
F-Zero X > F-Zero GX
Paper Mario 2 = Paper Mario (both shit)

haven't played Paper Mario 2 yet, but I completely agree with everything else

if non-Nintendo games also count,
N64 WCW/WWE games >>>>>>>>> all the GC WWE games

 

[ravingloon]

Yes but GTA is a relatively new franchise and is still selling well, look at super Mario brothers 1-3. The problem will come late next generation or in generation after that when the company can’t make the gameplay and gameworld fresh and exciting.

GTA is a slightly different case then a game like Mario as GTA titles just need to get more realistic while a Mario title needs to have new ideas and concepts to make it interesting.

The more Nintendo whores the franchise the more ideas they need to come up with to keep them exciting !

Do you actually want Nintendo to continue whoring franchisees?

GTA is on it's sixth(?) version for the last two generations (I know there was at least one expansion pack in there). And yet, it's legs seem to only get stronger. Whoring, for whoring sakes, isn't a bad thing with regards to sales (If the suits are doing their jobs correctly).

Do I want Nintendo to keep "whoring" their franchises? I want them to do what they've traditionally done. Have a core set of characters (like actors) who are marketable and build games around them. My problem with them is they've seem to taken the Disney route and reduced everything to a formula. So where they're technically Nintendo style games, the magic is stripped out. I want the magic back in the games. There are a large core of N64 games that to this day are without peer for the genre. They oozed magic. But sadly my favorite Nintendo Gamecube games are Pikmin, Metroid Prime, and Eternal Darkness.

You could say I've just proved your point, but I'd counter the reason these games were more polished than the typical Gamecube games this generation was because they didn't have a formula their second tier designers could use. They had to take time to craft these games from the ground up. This attention and A-Level talent applied to Mario and Zelda and WaveRace, etc. would have yielded games that had lived up to expectations. But by releasing more games this generation, Nintendo has diluted the resources to these games and relied on forumula. And this is what I object to. That they've become just another company that's broken down Nintendo's games to a formula, and then does there best to recreate that formula. The magic is gone.

None of this, however, will ever solve Nintendo's market position until they see the world for what it is and begin acting accordingly. Metroid Prime is this generation's greatest console game, IMO, and the sales are blah. Not horrible, but not great. There are problems with Nintendo that are institutional. Quality is always secondary to marketing in the real world. It's nice to have both, but if mass sales are your priority, you'd choose marketing over quality (If you could only pick one).

 

[Do The Mario]

Okay in time 5 GTA games have been released (plus one expansion pack)

The following Mario games have been released since 1998 (first GTA title)

Mario Power Tennis GC
Paper Mario thousand Year Door GC
Super Mario Sunshine GC
Mario & Luigi Superstar saga GBA
Paper Mario N64
Mario Kart DD GC
Mario Party 6 GC
Super Mario Advance GBA
Super Mario Advance 2 GBA
Super Mario Advance 3 GBA
Mario Party 5 GC
Mario Pinball Land GBA
Classic Nes Series: Super Mario BROS GBA
Mario Golf: TT GC
Mario Tennis N64
Mario golf advance tour GBA
Mario Party 4 GC
Classic nes Series: Dr Mario GBA
Mario Golf N64
Mario Golf GBC
Mario Party N64
Mario Party 2 N64
Mario Party 3 N64
Mario vs Donley Kong GBA
Mario tennis GBC
Super Mario bros Deluxe GBC


Mario has had 26 since the first GTA game was released; the sad thing is only a few of them are original titles. Yes I most certainly agree with ravingloon that the quality of Nintendo’s titles has been diluted.


Anyway we are way off topic now

 

[Mejilan]

Most of that list is totally irrelevant. You cannot just grab any game that uses the Mario character to make your point. Break them down into genre-organized lists, and then we'd be talking.

 

[Do The Mario]

Most of that list is totally irrelevant. You cannot just grab any game that uses the Mario character to make your point. Break them down into genre-organized lists, and then we'd be talking.

Using the Mario brand in any game makes it a Mario title.

Ports and party games almost make up 50% of all Mario titles in the last 6 years! Too many dairy products for my liking!

MOOO!

 

[Mejilan]

You make no sense. If you want to compare the GTA franchise to the core Mario games (that is, the platformers) then that would be a fair comparison.

Do you honestly think that Rockstar wouldn't make GTA-themed sports and rpgs and racer games, if they could get away with it? Mario is inifinitely more marketable even if he doesn't command as much of a market presence anymore.

You're comparing a set of 5 or 6 games that effectively can be pidgeonholed into one genre (GTA) with 20-some odd games encompassing roughly 8 or so genres. There is absolutely no basis for comparison there whatsoever.

Hell, arguably, the Mario games (within their respective genres) have changed more over the years (except perhaps for the Camelot sports games) than the GTA games have since GTA3.

 

[Do The Mario]

You make no sense. If you want to compare the GTA franchise to the core Mario games (that is, the platformers) then that would be a fair comparison.

Do you honestly think that Rockstar wouldn't make GTA-themed sports and rpgs and racer games, if they could get away with it? Mario is inifinitely more marketable even if he doesn't command as much of a market presence anymore.

You're comparing a set of 5 or 6 games that effectively can be pidgeonholed into one genre (GTA) with 20-some odd games encompassing roughly 8 or so genres. There is absolutely no basis for comparison there whatsoever.

Hell, arguably, the Mario games (within their respective genres) have changed more over the years (except perhaps for the Camelot sports games) than the GTA games have since GTA3.

Read the thread, it was someone else that brought up the GTA comparison saying that it was whored just as much as Mario.

I was just stressing the point that Mario is the Dairy KING!

God dammit I must be the biggest Mario fan on these boards I want to stomp Koopa troopers, jump around in giant socks and fly around in my tanooki suit.

Seriously I have to go to my NES to get my Mario fix these days!

Why can’t Nintendo construct a new franchise for its tennis and party games?

Why use all the Mario characters?

Now a good example is Diddy Kong Racing, sure the game based on the Donkey Kong franchise BUT the game introduces a ton of new fresh characters many of which are major franchises now eg Conker and Banjo.

 

[Baron Aloha]

IMO each of these games are as good or better than their N64 counterparts:

Animal Crossing (guess it'd have to be)
FZero GX
Mario Kart Double Dash!!
Paper Mario 2
Rogue Squadron 2
Super Smash Bros Melee
Zelda WW (OOT is overrated)
WaveRace: Blue Storm


I never played the N64 counterparts for the following games so I can't give an opinion:

Mario Party
Mario Golf
Pokemon Colloseum


Here are the N64 games I thought were better:

Mario64
1080

 

[mCACGj]

Zelda WW (OOT is overrated)

Blasphemy!

 

[Mejilan]

Read the thread, it was someone else that brought up the GTA comparison saying that it was whored just as much as Mario.

I was just stressing the point that Mario is the Dairy KING!

God dammit I must be the biggest Mario fan on these boards I want to stomp Koopa troopers, jump around in giant socks and fly around in my tanooki suit.

Seriously I have to go to my NES to get my Mario fix these days!

Why can’t Nintendo construct a new franchise for its tennis and party games?

Why use all the Mario characters?

Now a good example is Diddy Kong Racing, sure the game based on the Donkey Kong franchise BUT the game introduces a ton of new fresh characters many of witch are major franchises now eg Conker and Banjo.

I don't really care WHO brought up the GTA vs Mario thing. I'm saying that YOUR comparison/list is bunk.

Nintendo also knows that there's a very good chance that a line of goofy, cartoon, arcadey sports games with totally original characters won't sell for shit. They're probably right. Mario and crew are marketable. Sure, there will always be some people that will buy the games because they're quality games. But there are probably many more that will buy them because of the box art and title (namely parents for kids during the holiday shopping season, for one). And something parents almost always were able to trust is that they could buy a Mario themed game and get a quality title in the bargain.

As for Diddy Kong Racing, Conker and Banjo were already being incorporated into their own games at that point. Their inclusion was a quick and easy advertisement for the games that were inevitably coming out anyway. And the game was still a DK licensed title, so it's not like that's even a particularly good example of your point, at all.

 

[Baron Aloha]

Blasphemy!

Well for what its worth I think:

Castlevania: Sympony of the Night
Metal Gear Solid
Final Fantasy VII
Halo
Goldeneye

are overrated as well. I'm not saying they aren't really good games. I just don't think they are the be-all-end-all games that people make them out to be. I mean FFVII for example is like 7 years old and people still will not shut up about it.

 

[Do The Mario]

I don't really care WHO brought up the GTA vs Mario thing. I'm saying that YOUR comparison/list is bunk.

Nintendo also knows that there's a very good chance that a line of goofy, cartoon, arcadey sports games with totally original characters won't sell for shit. They're probably right. Mario and crew are marketable. Sure, there will always be some people that will buy the games because they're quality games. But there are probably many more that will buy them because of the box art and title (namely parents for kids during the holiday shopping season, for one). And something parents almost always were able to trust is that they could buy a Mario themed game and get a quality title in the bargain.

As for Diddy Kong Racing, Conker and Banjo were already being incorporated into their own games at that point. Their inclusion was a quick and easy advertisement for the games that were inevitably coming out anyway. And the game was still a DK licensed title, so it's not like that's even a particularly good example of your point, at all.

Well I will continue to wait for my new Mario platformer which is like one Mario game out of the LAST 25 titles.

Sorry but the Mario franchise should be about great platforming not about creating as many spin offs as possible.


Am I the only Nintendo fan that wants to see a new franchise rather then have Mario Slapped on ever second Title?

 

[Mejilan]

I'll only start to complain when I start seeing games that have absolutely no relevance with the Mario universe. Or, games that totally suck. Did Paper Mario 2 HAVE to be a Mario game for its RPG mechanics to work so well and balanced? No, but the fact that it was a Mario title certainly didn't lessen its charm, thanks to the very intelligent way the license and game world was applied.

Likewise, do I WANT to see a GT3-like racing simulator with the Mario franchise? Hell no, but that's why we got a goofy, weapons-based, arcadey kart racer. As long as the application isn't jarring, and the gameplay is solid, there's nothing inherently wrong with the application of the license. And I don't consider that milking, in the least.

Now, releasing the same exact game in a variety of formats... that IS milking. Then again, absolutely no one is forcing you to buy every iteration of some of those ah... reoccuring classics. And honestly, I don't have a problem dropping a rom and emu on a GBA cart and releasing it as a retro classic line. See, that kind of milking doesn't really cost Nintendo anything in the way of resources or manpower that could have instead been applied to another game.

 

[DDayton]

Genre breakdown:

PLATFORMERS:
Mario vs Donkey Kong GBA
Super Mario Sunshine GC

RPG:
Paper Mario N64
Paper Mario thousand Year Door GC
Mario & Luigi Superstar saga GBA

KART RACING:
Mario Kart DD GC
Mario Kart: Super Circuit (yah missed one)

PARTY GAMES:
Mario Party N64
Mario Party 2 N64
Mario Party 3 N64
Mario Party 4 GC
Mario Party 5 GC
Mario Party 6 GC

ACTION SPORTS TITLES:
Mario Tennis N64
Mario Power Tennis GC
Mario Golf: TT GC
Mario Golf N64

RPG SPORTS TITLES:
Mario tennis GBC
Mario golf advance tour GBA
Mario Golf GBC

MISC:
Mario Pinball Land GBA

RERELEASES:
Super Mario Advance GBA
Super Mario Advance 2 GBA
Super Mario Advance 3 GBA
Super Mario bros Deluxe GBC
Classic Nes Series: Super Mario BROS GBA
Classic nes Series: Dr Mario GBA

I think you missed a few more titles, but I don't have the time to scan all of the TMK Release Lists for the list.

Very few of the "Mario games" over the past few years qualify as rereleases; most are completely unique titles. Using a character in multiple games doesn't mean that the GAMES are essentially identical. I'd argue that the characters do add to the game, but it is the content which renders the games unique. Having Mario in two games doesn't make the games "rehashes" or present evidence of "milking" -- Mario acts in the same was as any actor in Hollywood does when they appear in several films in one year. What's important is the role played in each film.

(P.S. You also forgot the myriad of Mario spinoff titles, such as Luigi's Mansion, Wario Ware, Warioland 4, etc..)

 

[Kiriku]

Why is Mario Kart 64 missing on that list? Is it intentional? :/

And what about Super Smash Brothers (+Melee) ??

 

[Rlan]

The following Mario games have been released since 1998 (first GTA title)

.

 

[Kiriku]

Yeah OK, but shouldn't Super Smash Brothers + Melee qualify? Or is it some kind of rule that a game without the word "Mario" is not a "Mario game"? I mean, they are games that contain characters from the Mario universe, including Mario himself.