Gaia Theory
Member
Or... the Revolution will be a lot like the DS.The Experiment said:
Y'know... a technically less capable machine with a unique control interface that ends up with very good 3rd party support.
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Are Developers Embracing Nintendo's Next-Gen Vision?
- Thread starter ThunderEmperor
- Start date
Y'know... a technically less capable machine with a unique control interface that ends up with very good 3rd party support.
WrathOfOtaibah
Banned
Gaia Theory said:
I disagree with that only because Nintendo with the DS had the advantage of being the next in line of the smash hit GBA series. The Game Cube is no GBA.
Gaia Theory
Member
Valid point.The Experiment said:
With rising development costs, and Nintendo trying to champion those costs and keep them low on Revolution... perhaps 3rd parties will be kinder to Nintendo this coming generation based on lower developments costs and therefore greater potential for profit?
Gaia Theory
Member
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not... seeing how the majority of developers that have commented on the controller say that they love it. I'm not going to bother searching down quotes... as you can do it yourself.monkeyrun said:
Nintendo could only wish that the success of the DS can replicate with the Revolution. I'd love to see it happen, though.
I think my one big problem with the Revolution (besides controller-nostradamus... I like the thing, regardless), is how Nintendo wants to cater to everyone. And hey guess what, I like that. I like the idea of a family console and etc etc. But my problem is as cool as I think the concept of non-games like Nintendogs/Brain Training/Simple DS are, I don't want Nintendo to simply fly out of the realm of awesome videogames and just create non-games or simple games that its play value can be had after one hour... I want to see them give me a steady supply of awesome games they've always released (yeah, so maybe their GCN era wasn't as good as their N64 era, which I think that was Nintendo's best era EVER when it came to developing AAA software, but that's just me though), like the Mario's and Zelda's and Metroid's and etc etc, but also new franchises. I adore Pikmin... hell, you can say I'm GHEY for Pikmin (hauauauauauah), but I disgrees.
I can understand the direction Nintendo is taking (though I think their stance should be simply to MS/Sony... high powered console and blah blah blah), but even if I don't like that direction, as long as the conventional games still come year after year (like we're seeing on the DS), then I won't complain.
Hyper rant of the day!
I think my one big problem with the Revolution (besides controller-nostradamus... I like the thing, regardless), is how Nintendo wants to cater to everyone. And hey guess what, I like that. I like the idea of a family console and etc etc. But my problem is as cool as I think the concept of non-games like Nintendogs/Brain Training/Simple DS are, I don't want Nintendo to simply fly out of the realm of awesome videogames and just create non-games or simple games that its play value can be had after one hour... I want to see them give me a steady supply of awesome games they've always released (yeah, so maybe their GCN era wasn't as good as their N64 era, which I think that was Nintendo's best era EVER when it came to developing AAA software, but that's just me though), like the Mario's and Zelda's and Metroid's and etc etc, but also new franchises. I adore Pikmin... hell, you can say I'm GHEY for Pikmin (hauauauauauah), but I disgrees.
I can understand the direction Nintendo is taking (though I think their stance should be simply to MS/Sony... high powered console and blah blah blah), but even if I don't like that direction, as long as the conventional games still come year after year (like we're seeing on the DS), then I won't complain.
Hyper rant of the day!
agreed.The Experiment said:
Plus everyone seems to have forgotten that Nintendo handhelds have ALWAYS been underpowered compared to the competition. It's not something that just began with the DS. it was there with the Game Boy, Game Boy Color, and Game Boy Advance, too.
Bluemercury
Member
Luckett_X said:
Owned is the term... :lol
I dont know why its necessary to have so much negativity in this thread.
Its true that the Revolution is unproven. We have yet to see any software for the system. It seems a little fanboy-ish to assume that Nintendo is going to release some kind of killer app thats going to change games forever. If you have expectations that high, you will probably be dissapointed.
However, Nintendo's track record for innovation and high quality software is sublime. They have produced great games for 15 - 20 years and they are responsible for some of the most important control changes in the history of gaming (D-pad ect etc). Why is it surprising that people have so much faith in Nintendo?
I cant understand why some people have such rabid hatred of the Revolution. We already have two next generation consoles coming from Sony and MS that are trying to do virtually the same thing. I think its great that there is an alternative. Something different.
Once we get to the point where developers can create photo-realistic visuals (and we are getting close), where do we go from there? A new way to control videogames is going to become necessary whether you like it or not.
I'm not saying the Revolutions controller is THE answer. Its definately encouraging though.
Its true that the Revolution is unproven. We have yet to see any software for the system. It seems a little fanboy-ish to assume that Nintendo is going to release some kind of killer app thats going to change games forever. If you have expectations that high, you will probably be dissapointed.
However, Nintendo's track record for innovation and high quality software is sublime. They have produced great games for 15 - 20 years and they are responsible for some of the most important control changes in the history of gaming (D-pad ect etc). Why is it surprising that people have so much faith in Nintendo?
I cant understand why some people have such rabid hatred of the Revolution. We already have two next generation consoles coming from Sony and MS that are trying to do virtually the same thing. I think its great that there is an alternative. Something different.
Once we get to the point where developers can create photo-realistic visuals (and we are getting close), where do we go from there? A new way to control videogames is going to become necessary whether you like it or not.
I'm not saying the Revolutions controller is THE answer. Its definately encouraging though.
Gaia Theory
Member
This is no junior member.Mr_Moogle said:
Letter to Elise
Banned
Mr_Moogle said:
I was RIGHT there with you until this part. I have to totally disagree there.
Otherwise excellent post.
Bluemercury
Member
Letter to Elise said:I was RIGHT there with you until this part. I have to totally disagree there.
Otherwise excellent post.
So you think we're going to be stuck with the traditional gamepad forever????
I highly doubt it....
Letter to Elise
Banned
Bluemercury said:
Apply that to the automobile and you have my answer.
Letter to Elise
Banned
Mr_Moogle said:
There is no need to change the controls of cars. There is no need to change the controls of videogames. Sure we'll have a cruise control or a GPS here and there but the overall system remains remarkably unchanged, because it works.
Sorry if I was fuzzy there. =(
~l2e
Letter to Elise
Banned
papercut said:
Being rude without making a counter-point seems to be your method here.
I'm not the sort to argue for the sake of arguing so enjoy yourself.
~l2e
Amir0x said:
We'll have Popeye arms by the end of next-gen!
...
No, but really. I think the brilliance of the controller will stem from new genres, not from existing ones. Though it might help the conventional genre, while I think the DMC thing sounds cool in concept and horrible in execution, something like Mario might change things. Like...
WOO WA HAH YIPPIE MAMMMA HIYAHHHHHHHHHH!
Or some crazy shit like that.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Letter to Elise said:
I agree with this, but also acknowledge the potential there is in new interface options. However, Revolution doesn't seem, so far to me, to be the way forward. The important issue is the content you are actually interacting and involved with, not the interface.
Letter to Elise
Banned
Mr_Moogle said:
No no ...most likely not but the the change is not "necissary" That's the part I was disagreeing with.
~l2e
PS - I'm right there with you Hedgehog. My disagreement was with a very minor part of the statement. All is well. ^_^
AndoCalrissian
Member
If you were right, we'd be controlling our cars with reins.Letter to Elise said:
JavyOO7 said:
I think the function certainly is the natural evolution, though I don't think the form (remote) is the next step. I think we'll see function adopted in slightly more traditional shells down the line from the other group if it catches on.
But, like DS, I hope developers don't feel forced to utilize it. Controller swinging swords in DMC is practically the worst thing I've ever heard. It'd change the dynamic of those titles dramatically, make them into something else entirely. So yeah, make a new game behind such a concept. But don't shit up the ones I love.
My only fear, and it's actually somewhat related to your own, is that Nintendo will focus on these non-games or these 'non-traditional' whatever whatever titles, because I hate those games. And I only buy Nintendo systems for first party games, so if the focus shifts too far and I start getting less of what I love I might finally have to accept that they've gone down a different road.
Letter to Elise
Banned
Wow....sorry to cause such a commotion. You don't tow the line and you're out in the cold apparently.
Nevermind, fellas. Back to lurking in Nintendo topics. It doesn't pay to speak your mind, even if you agree with 90% of whats being said.
Carry on.
~l2e
Nevermind, fellas. Back to lurking in Nintendo topics. It doesn't pay to speak your mind, even if you agree with 90% of whats being said.
Carry on.
~l2e
Comparing something like a need versus a want like transportation versus entertainment doesn't really prove your point. So many people believe VR is the eventual "end-all" utopia of video games, but that's not gonna happen by just improving visuals...control must be improved as well in order to immerse us into something like VR.
Also...just 'cos you *could* use the remote-controller as a gun or sword or whip in a game that requires alot of action doesn't make it instantly tiring. I doubt the developers of Castlevania would FORCE players to constantly whip their wrist to use a whip on screen. I would say the best solution would be to make the basic whip action a simple flick or even button press while there would be a "freestyle" mode in which you can create new whip motions in real time durring boss fights or something.
Also...just 'cos you *could* use the remote-controller as a gun or sword or whip in a game that requires alot of action doesn't make it instantly tiring. I doubt the developers of Castlevania would FORCE players to constantly whip their wrist to use a whip on screen. I would say the best solution would be to make the basic whip action a simple flick or even button press while there would be a "freestyle" mode in which you can create new whip motions in real time durring boss fights or something.
MightyHedgehog
Member
AndoCalrissian said:
? That would be a horse-led carriage and not an automobile.
Letter to Elise said:
While I see the point you're trying to make, the analogy does not apply. Cars are a necessity that the general populace needs to get from place to place--they're a tool, not a form of entertainment. The current drive system is in place because it's the only system that works well enough to meet safety and practicality standards.
Controllers, on the other hand, have plenty of room to grow because they're there solely for entertainment. And while Nintendo's approach may seem radical, you can bet that Sony and MS will have similar features in their next consoles and that the controllers will be some sort of hybrid. And beyond that, who knows.
Elise: The cynicism comment wasn't aimed at you. Sorry if it seemed that way. I'm just arguing your car analogy
Letter to Elise
Banned
papercut said:Elise: The cynicism comment wasn't aimed at you. Sorry if it seemed that way. I'm just arguing your car analogy
Again, all is well, papercut.
~l2e
PhoenixDark
Banned
Mr_Moogle said:
*claps*
I think me and my fellow Ntards are going to hereby refer to you as Reggie Jr.
The Experiment said:
The Experiment said:
Now that you've owned yourself in the very same thread, the next step will be to learn to get out of threads if you're not going to add anything that contains even a remote sign rudimentary value to them.
Going back on topic now, I think the sheer amount of positive feedback that we've been seeing from developers is a good sign, not only for Nintendo but for the industry. It's nice to see developers acknowledging that they will actually need to be creative with the revolution.
The only downside is that I know that there will be games on the PS3/X360 that I would love to try out with the Revolution controller and at the same time, I know that there will be Rev exclusives that are forced to work with the controller but would have been better on a standard controller. Either way, I'm going to have a Rev and a PS3 (and eventually and X360) so I can't lose
2 hand freestyle control sucks. Look at wario ware twisted. All you can do is implied in the name twist left, twist right in 200 variants. Moving 2 hands up down left right in and out is arkward. Complex motions even more so.Amir0x said:
You could still play devil may cry like before, you have an analog stick in one hand and buttons in the other. The freestyle could be used to adjust the camera and nothing else which could work really well because you don't have to take your fingers of the action buttons. Just flick in a direction to nudge the camera there.
= traditional devil may cry with better camera controls and you can position your arms however you like. What's bad about it?
This is how I picture mario revolution to work.
...what? Even without the shell it basically is a traditional controller broken up. I don't understand the resentiments. I like the idea of not having to cram my hands together.
EDIT: actually in devil may cry it would be sweet to have sword striking on the A button but be able to aim at baddies on the screen and use the gun that way. I could see that work.
EDIT: actually in devil may cry it would be sweet to have sword striking on the A button but be able to aim at baddies on the screen and use the gun that way. I could see that work.
jaundicejuice
Member
Talk, talk, talk, talk.
The proof is in the pudding, I want actual games, no more conjecture about what is possible.
The proof is in the pudding, I want actual games, no more conjecture about what is possible.
AndoCalrissian
Member
Even if you don't like it, it's still worth it to try it.Amir0x said:
PhoenixDark
Banned
Sadly QFTjaundicejuice said:
I'm getting pretty tired of waiting...what is the point of Nintendo waiting another 6 months just to show us footage? I'm still baffled that they couldn't at least show us videos of the journalists playing MP2 with the controller at TGS. That would have shut up a lot of people. -_-
AndoCalrissian said:
Sure, but in a game that is not titled "Devil May Cry."
elostyle said:
I guess it's because I don't see it as 'cramming my hands together', but giving my controller stability. Controllers as they are now are awesome. This is the first time I've ever thought we don't need a change yet. But since we're going to have one whether we need it or not, I would prefer it in games that I don't love already the way they are.
WrathOfOtaibah
Banned
Nintard is a different word from retard or wetarded. I said so. So there. Give it up koam.
The problem with this is Sony. If you see the release lists in Japan, there's usually at least a dozen PS2 releases weekly. Most of these come from smaller developers. Every one of these smaller developers pays royalty fees to Sony. Sony has spent way too much money on the PS3 and will be looking to make up for costs. They won't let royalty fees slip away. Also, Nintendo charges some of the most money when it comes to royalties. They could reduce them or eliminate them altogether since Nintendo can afford it but its unlikely they'll do that.
Sony will probably offer several low budget solutions for small third parties with PS3 and if not, there's always the PSP. Third party support has no incentive right now to go to Revolution. Hell, most of them probably won't even leave the PS2 until 2007 and for some, 2008.
Nintendo has no shot at being #1. What they could do is crush the Xbox 360 to where Microsoft is scared off from pursuing a third Xbox machine. The Xbox 360 momentum will be almost flatlined as the PS3 gets closer and closer. The Revolution is a dark horse candidate that, with the right launch, could have it pass the X360's userbase by the end of 2007. If it does bad, it will do worse than Game Cube. Thats why Nintendo can't fuck around when it comes to the first 12-18 months. Nintendo has to be at "A" game here, no more delays, no more FLUDD, no more sequels that didn't live up to the N64's predecessors, etc. You get my point.
Nintendo should realize they won't get the third party support that PS3 has and should try their hardest to make up the gaps on their own. If they take the DS approach of their usual big releases with several small releases, it could end up holding its own in those rough patches. They can be simple games that aren't full price and could introduce a new market of budget games. This is Nintendo's only plan for success in my opinion. Nintendo is going to have to prove it themselves that the Revolution is indeed a Revolution. Not just another console but with a remote control for a controller.
Still, Nintendo needs to announce some games. The sooner the better too. They could show it off at New Year's or something. E3 is just too late in my opinion.
The problem with this is Sony. If you see the release lists in Japan, there's usually at least a dozen PS2 releases weekly. Most of these come from smaller developers. Every one of these smaller developers pays royalty fees to Sony. Sony has spent way too much money on the PS3 and will be looking to make up for costs. They won't let royalty fees slip away. Also, Nintendo charges some of the most money when it comes to royalties. They could reduce them or eliminate them altogether since Nintendo can afford it but its unlikely they'll do that.
Sony will probably offer several low budget solutions for small third parties with PS3 and if not, there's always the PSP. Third party support has no incentive right now to go to Revolution. Hell, most of them probably won't even leave the PS2 until 2007 and for some, 2008.
Nintendo has no shot at being #1. What they could do is crush the Xbox 360 to where Microsoft is scared off from pursuing a third Xbox machine. The Xbox 360 momentum will be almost flatlined as the PS3 gets closer and closer. The Revolution is a dark horse candidate that, with the right launch, could have it pass the X360's userbase by the end of 2007. If it does bad, it will do worse than Game Cube. Thats why Nintendo can't fuck around when it comes to the first 12-18 months. Nintendo has to be at "A" game here, no more delays, no more FLUDD, no more sequels that didn't live up to the N64's predecessors, etc. You get my point.
Nintendo should realize they won't get the third party support that PS3 has and should try their hardest to make up the gaps on their own. If they take the DS approach of their usual big releases with several small releases, it could end up holding its own in those rough patches. They can be simple games that aren't full price and could introduce a new market of budget games. This is Nintendo's only plan for success in my opinion. Nintendo is going to have to prove it themselves that the Revolution is indeed a Revolution. Not just another console but with a remote control for a controller.
Still, Nintendo needs to announce some games. The sooner the better too. They could show it off at New Year's or something. E3 is just too late in my opinion.
papercut said:
I'd condemn it, yes, because they would have just gone and changed my DMC and made it into something entirely different. If they made a unique game called "Demons Midnight Climb" and had this unique control scheme I'd be more inclined to give it an open mind.
DMC3 = ultimate, essentially "perfect" (nothing is perfect, but you get the idea) maturation of the action genre. And it's because of the controller we have NOW that it is partially this way. Anything else that changes it would make it different. It's possible that it could be equally as good, but it would no longer be the the same awesome action game I'd love. And since that is what I am a fan of, I would be pissed either way that there is no longer a regular DMC game in the 'traditional' sense.
Amir0x said:
Yes yes, I agree it would only lead to abominations like 3D castlevanias or 3D contras. I totally agree but I just had to use an example of what mechanics would be possible since no one really know yet what direction the interface changes will take the next generation of games into. Did I ever imagine a game like DMC to ever exist and play the way it does during the SNES days? No I didn't.
Amir0x said:
Hmm, alright. I don't know, I've moved to the point where I don't really associate names with gameplay so much anymore. That's why I was able to really appreciate Prime, and I guess it's also why I can handle a franchise switching genres or undergoing major gameplay changes relatively well (so long as the game is good, that is).
Keep in mind, though, that developers are just as attached to their franchises and sometimes, THEY are the ones who want to try something new with their characters by changing formulas. So if the designers want Dante doing crazy stuff with the Rev controller, you might as well just try to see things from their angle. Hence the open mind. At the very least, it'll help you adapt? Just a thought ^^
Keru_Shiri
Member
I see what you're getting at, and I think this is where alot of Nintendo hate stems from. For many people, Mario 64, and OOT where at the height of maturation, in their own respective genres, wheras Sunshine and WW seemed to be a step away from their predecessors (sp) because what was supposed to advanced the series, instead felt like a tacked-on "forced" addition (both additions being water related, no less, perhaps that's why it was codenamed "Dolphin"Amir0x said:
?). I think what alot of the anti-nintendo crowd would perfer to see, aside from Nintendo going the Sega route and becomming a third-party developer, would be for Nintendo to relase a "proper" console that will be on par with 360/PS3, a traditional controller, HD, online as good as Live, the same third party selection (imagine GTA on Nintendo :lol ) with the only exception being stellar 1st party titles that would essentiall be Mario 64-2 and Zelda OoT-2. But that's simply my speculation...