Are we running Final Fantasy Spirit Within and Monsters Inc, in real time?
Puscifer
Member
I would argue for the simple fact that were running ray tracing in real time we've already surpassed Pixar, at least till Cars, on many fronts.
Path tracing in real time on Cyberpunk, Quake and Portal RTX puts them leagues ahead of even Cars on some level.
We still don't have Pixar or DreamWorks level of animation quality though which is what sets them apart from games.
I dunno, this just seems like a weird comparison on a lot of levels the more you try to find direct correlations.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
The top tier studios have surpassed it.
HighPoly
Banned
It seems like we are at the early 2000's CGi in real time, and I'm considering PS2 CGi too
The ending of this gen will be the starting line for PS3 CGi era, as Final Fantasy XIII CGi or Assassins Creed Brotherhood, that may be possible on PS6
What do you think??
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Puscifer
Member
Those aren't real time, though. There's a lot of asset swaps going on in the TLOU 2s cut scenes, similar to the PS3 version where they ended up using those resources for the PS4 remaster.
The top tier studios have surpassed it.
I would love a PS5 upgrade that uses them in gameplay, though.
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SlimeGooGoo
Banned
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Puscifer
Member
I would say Kingdom Hearts 3 is getting there with the right art direction: it's pretty nuts at time what they accomplished in real time if you've never checked out the digital foundry video.
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HighPoly
Banned
They are running in engine, but in real time. I mean, they are scripted but runs in real time. When you come back to gamplay some assests turn off
HighPoly
Banned
I can't wait for KH4, and I've heard they changed to UE5 recenlty
only hope they make a new Toy Story chapter!!!
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Puscifer
Member
I had zero clue what was going on but I had a lot of fun with it
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Are you talking about animation during gameplay? Thats not gonna happen since game animators need to cut animation in order to make control more responsive, which CGI movies dont have to worry about.
Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
Put that thing back where it came from or so help me! So help me! So help me! And cut!
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
In-Engine realtime. Gameplay isnt uite as good, but we're comparing cutscenes to movies here
Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
Final Fantasy Spirit Within Great and underrated movie.
Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Isn't this just the same thread as this thread except Toy Story is swapped out for Spirits Within and Monsters Inc?
hemo memo
You can't die before your death
God. Final Fantasy X is one of my favorite games and finished the HD remaster recently, but the voice acting is absolutely garbage.
nkarafo
Member
Νο. Games have a lot less geometry and far worse IQ.
Not technically. There are a lot less polygons under that terrible filtering/low internal resolution. The hair physics/detail aren't even close to what Monsters Inc does.
The top tier studios have surpassed it.
Not technically. There are a lot less polygons under that terrible filtering/low internal resolution. The hair physics/detail aren't even close to what Monsters Inc does.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Which you dont see lacking. That's what lod is all about.
Imo games look way better for years now
nkarafo
Member
I can clearly see LOD and pop-in in all games. I never see that in movies.
Internal resolution/iq is also much higher in movies.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
that absolutely doesn't matter. These movies look worse than games despite having better geometry
nkarafo
Member
It absolutely matters technically.
Artistically a lot of games may look better than any movie.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
all that matters in end result. You dont have to know behind the scenes to know tlou2 or ratchet and clank look better than movies from early 2000s
nkarafo
Member
Even so they still have worse internal resolution, iq, special effects like hair rendering and detail, imperfect lighting, pop-in, minor glitching here and there, shadow resolution issues, etc.
I'm willing to bet even the PS5 wouldn't be able to handle moving just Sullivan from Monsters Inc (without backgrounds) at 30fps, with the same quality/iq/amount of fur.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Can't we just put some of these models in unreal engine and put the fucker in a game to test once and for all?
nkarafo
Member
Sure, if you can find the original model and not a re-creation.
Movie models have no cuts/optimizations in detail/meshes because they don't care about "real time frame rate". Even Toy Story 1 models have more polygons than the vast majority of current game models, except maybe the most detailed ones like in the Horizon game, though the last part is still debatable without 100% confirmation. But in this topic we don't even discuss the first Toy Story from 1995, we are discussing movies that came much later and are way more advanced.
Either way, the technical philosophies between games/movies is very different. Games have a polygon/memory budget and real time frame rate targets. There's a lot of optimization going on to reach those targets. Movies don't have that. Artists can add as much detail as they want since the scenes don't have to render in real time. And every scene, every single frame, must look perfect with no IQ issues, no polygon edges being visible, not a single texture or polygon popping or z-fighting or whatever. And some scenes may have a way bigger polygon count than others, they don't have to balance them. They don't have to use LOD or anything like that.
This philosophy of "looking perfect" for each single frame was the same in 1995 with Toy Story 1 as it is now. Our eyes were the same in 1995, we would be able to see imperfections back then too. It may take more days to render a frame but even in 1995 they would still try to make each frame look perfect (despite the human models looking awful, artistically).
So, even if games reach the point where they have more detail than certain movies, they will still always look imperfect. Because no matter the hardware, devs always try to max it out with the best looking games, which cause all those artifacts i mentioned numerous times.
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HighPoly
Banned
the most important elements in movies I've didn't seen in game are Cloth Physics and Hair Physics...
I don't know how many poligon we need to simulate a single t-shirt but this is gonna be hard...
Seems like rendering another character from the ground!!
But in terms of what we imediatly take a look and feels, we're running early 2000's CGi, in my opinion.
nkarafo
Member
Well yes, if we don't count all the imperfections and artifacts, we do.
But technically speaking, we don't really run Spirits Within or Monsters Inc in real time, like the title suggests. We run heavily optimized versions of those movies at best.
Which is still amazing btw, 20 years ago even that would sound crazy.
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Drizzlehell
Banned
Yeah, I think we're way past that level already. If we could see that CGI as a raw render instead of film print then it would probably look closer to what we have today but the character animations are definitely more artificial in the movie.
HighPoly
Banned
Yes, and there's a big diference between early 2000's CGi and PS2 CGi from that same era.
I believe we surpassed all PS2 CGi levels, even those cutscenes with more cloth simulation, cause we need to consider the total scope!
I can't say that Shaolin Monks cutscenes with all those poligonal edges and lifeless characters, are better than MK11 running on my PS5...
Well, I honestly can't say for sure... And this is more than being able to run some cloth reactions according to environment..
take a look below
hemo memo
You can't die before your death
This. Someone test it.
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Schmendrick
Banned
Some game assets may have reached that kind of quality and it sometimes may look close in still images but the coherency in lighting is nowhere close, hair and cloth physics are incomparable and ofc image and motion clarity are worlds apart...
So, a resounding no.
The fakery in games has reached very impressive quality levels, but it`s still faked and breaks apart if looked upon with increased scrutiny.
So, a resounding no.
The fakery in games has reached very impressive quality levels, but it`s still faked and breaks apart if looked upon with increased scrutiny.
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HighPoly
Banned
Yeah, movies are in another level
But maybe PS2 CGi era has been reached
HighPoly
Banned
This is a 90's CGi... I think PS5 is able to render that scene.
But I don't know if it's really possible with all those elements in a complex gameplay scene.
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Ulysses 31
Member
Just look at the Spirit Within set pieces...
With modern day optimizations we might get something looking close to it.
With better art direction it might even be more pleasant to look at but in raw computation power...
With modern day optimizations we might get something looking close to it.
With better art direction it might even be more pleasant to look at but in raw computation power...
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Elysion
Banned
There's still something that early 2000s CGI has that modern games are missing. I'm not sure what exactly it is, but FF10 CGI for example still looks better than any current game imo. I'm still waiting for a game that looks like a FF CG movie in real-time. R&C on PS5 comes pretty close, but only in certain parts, while at other times it looks much less impressive.
supersale88
Member
This scene was so memorable, they don't make them like they used to.