Mighty Chin
Banned
Shut your whore mouth!
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
ARROW Season 2 |OT| Back in a Flash
- Thread starter Replicant
- Start date
- Status
Shut your whore mouth!
PhoncipleBone
Banned
I hate you for putting that idea in my mind, but it would work extremely well on the show. I love Sara and Felicity, but fucking things up like that would just show that this show gives no fucks and pulls no punches. And as mad as I would be at it happening, I know it would only make the story stronger in the end.
Hours Left
Member
Sara has "died" three times on the show already. Any impact that would have is long gone and would just be cheap IMO.
I think the gutsier thing to do is to let her live and actually explore the consequences of her past actions.
Jest Chillin
Member
You're remembering it correctly. Ivo points at Shado and says 10 seconds.. then points at Sara and says 5 seconds.. then he notices Ollie's reaction to it being pointed at Sara.. keeps the gun pointed at here and says "Time's up" and Ollie jumps in front of Sara and Ivo turns to shoot Shado.
Hours Left
Member
I have a very strong feeling that if anyone is dying, it'll be
(This is all just speculation FYI.)
Laurel and Sara's dad. It's enough to ramp up the drama in a number of other character's stories, without losing anything major. I'm sorry to say, but he really is just one big plot device currently.
You're looking at this from a logical perspective, and not from the crazy ass one-eyed dude hopped up on angeroids.
She reconciled with Laurel and The League released her. Not sure what other consequences they could explore except Slade Tommyizing her.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
LOL. Horrible. And by horrible, I mean horribly awesome. I love the term.
Angelus Errare
Banned
It should happen.
Hours Left
Member
I'm pretty sure her issues with both those are faaaaaaaaar from over, and there's the small issue of her being an assassin for who knows how long. There is a ton of stuff to delve into with her, which is a much better use of her character than as a cheap emotional exploit. (There are other characters who could provide that "service" at a much lower cost to the overall narrative. No, I don't mean Laurel.)
Plus, I want her and Felicity to continue their friendship. Felicity needs a female friend.
Not gonna happen. In order for a permanent death to have any effect, the character in question must have bonded reasonably well with the audience or have a reasonably close relationship to the main character so that when the character got fridged, it leaves an impact on the characters left behind and preferably, the audiences. Killing characters you mentioned won't achieve the desired effect since neither the audience nor Oliver are particularly fond of those characters at the moment. Let's just say there's a good reason the writers have written Sara in such endearing manner thus far.
I can understand, however, anyone not wanting their favorite character to die. I have myself made similar argument to the one you just stated above this post in other shows. Ah, those were the days. These days, I just want to see the world burns.
Hours Left
Member
I disagree with you about Oliver not having a bond with that character, especially now. I don't think said character is a super fan favorite, but they are liked enough that the emotional impact would still be there. Plus, their death would be a catalyst for many other character relationships to move forward. (Or backwards, as the case may be.)
I'll bet you that most viewers would celebrate if Laurel is dead had they kill her at this point in time. I like KC and even I would celebrate. Plus, Laurel is not the one on Team Arrow. Sure Oliver will be sad and chesthair would grief. But Sara is well-known to all Team Arrow members. Everyone from Oliver, Felicity, Diggle, and Roy would feel the impact. Ditto everyone from the Lance family and even Sin and Nyssa. When we're talking about the highest impact toll from death, Sara is the one who has that card, unfortunately.
EmptySpace
Banned
then ollie chased slade using his bat...er arrowmobile.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
This I am behind 100%. My wife and I were talking after the latest episode that we see Sara and Felicity going out on the town together and being BFFs after this.
Also, we have a whole lotta potential awesome flashbacks with Sara. Not only her time on the island, but also her time with the League of Assassins.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
It didn't matter what Ollie did. It was always going to be Shado.
Shado was the glue that held the team together. Ivo is fixated on Sara. Ivo knows Oliver won't sentence an innocent to death, but he's naive enough to be tricked into thinking he did.
It was entirely an exercise in breaking unit cohesion.
Oliver would blame himself.
Slade would blame Oliver.
Shado would be dead.
Sara is new to the group - an outsider.
It was all about disabling the opposition, making them fight amongst themselves rather than creating a focused attack on Ivo's scheme.
Rodney McKay
Member
I've watched enough TV in my day to be pretty sure I know which main character is going to snuff it when the time comes for it.
I definitely don't want it to happen, but it all just seems a little too dramatically perfect to work out any other way.
and it's Sara. :'(
All the points are against her; she's not a character that's been around the whole show (fairly rare for a multiseason character to die without some realworld cause), she's romantically involved with a main character while there's a still another character they can fall back on were she to die (Laural), and the biggest reason is that it would basically be the biggest emotional blow to not just the main character, but to most of the other characters as well. (laurel, her folks, Talia Al Gul, and diggle and felicity if they all continue to bond)
All the points are against her; she's not a character that's been around the whole show (fairly rare for a multiseason character to die without some realworld cause), she's romantically involved with a main character while there's a still another character they can fall back on were she to die (Laural), and the biggest reason is that it would basically be the biggest emotional blow to not just the main character, but to most of the other characters as well. (laurel, her folks, Talia Al Gul, and diggle and felicity if they all continue to bond)
I definitely don't want it to happen, but it all just seems a little too dramatically perfect to work out any other way.
The Silver
Member
Thank goodness this isn't a horror show, Diggle is safe
Slade pls leave Diggle alone
Slade pls leave Diggle alone
"You'll always be my girl."
I FUCKING SQUEALED.
RIGHT in my FEELS
i need them to kiss or hug already
pls arrow writers
i wonder if she really does have a zombie fetish lol
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Oh shit.
That's deep but I kinda doubt the Arrow writers thought that all the way through.
LumpOfCole
Member
Here's what I think the producers are going to do with Laurel:
Short Version: Laurel is going to be forced onto the island for at least half of Season 3, if not all of Season 3.
Long Version: Slade doesn't just want to kill Ollie. He wants to make him suffer, and more importantly, make his loved ones suffer. Slade will figure out that Ollie will always have a soft spot for Laurel, and relish the fact that he will somehow force her onto the same island that Ollie was stuck on for five years. Slade will likely tell Ollie that she's dead, hoping he figures out later that she suffered on the island and he didn't try to look for her (this is sort of necessary anyway to ensure that Ollie doesn't take a private jet to the island at the beginning of Season 3 to go save Laurel)
What this accomplishes:
- Laurel will finally learn some survival skills and start her journey to be Black Canary
- Time away from Ollie and friends will let her reshape her personality a bit; she could become less emotional and more sharpened.
- Flashbacks to the island in Season 3 can be accompanied by modern-day cutaways to the island, contrasting Ollie's third year on the island and his methods of survival with how Laurel is managing her own survival on the island.
- This opens up new means of character and arc development for Officer Lance, who might be more proactive in finding out that Laurel didn't really die; his investigations over the season could lead to Team Arrow suddenly discovering that Laurel is alive to rush to the island to save her.
- Most importantly, the arc can be used as a much needed reboot for Laurel's entire character, which she will absolutely need if she has any shot at being a likable Black Canary.
Short Version: Laurel is going to be forced onto the island for at least half of Season 3, if not all of Season 3.
Long Version: Slade doesn't just want to kill Ollie. He wants to make him suffer, and more importantly, make his loved ones suffer. Slade will figure out that Ollie will always have a soft spot for Laurel, and relish the fact that he will somehow force her onto the same island that Ollie was stuck on for five years. Slade will likely tell Ollie that she's dead, hoping he figures out later that she suffered on the island and he didn't try to look for her (this is sort of necessary anyway to ensure that Ollie doesn't take a private jet to the island at the beginning of Season 3 to go save Laurel)
What this accomplishes:
- Laurel will finally learn some survival skills and start her journey to be Black Canary
- Time away from Ollie and friends will let her reshape her personality a bit; she could become less emotional and more sharpened.
- Flashbacks to the island in Season 3 can be accompanied by modern-day cutaways to the island, contrasting Ollie's third year on the island and his methods of survival with how Laurel is managing her own survival on the island.
- This opens up new means of character and arc development for Officer Lance, who might be more proactive in finding out that Laurel didn't really die; his investigations over the season could lead to Team Arrow suddenly discovering that Laurel is alive to rush to the island to save her.
- Most importantly, the arc can be used as a much needed reboot for Laurel's entire character, which she will absolutely need if she has any shot at being a likable Black Canary.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
A coworker said that whichever Lance sister dies, he wants it to renew Ollie's murderous streak. "To avenge my ex girlfriend's memory, I must become something else!" Cue up Ollie racking up a body count that puts season 1 to shame.
The Outsider
Member
After a season and a half, I have faith in the writers to give us something memorable. I obviously have favorite characters that I want to live, but if they're going down, they'll go out like champs.
Wiktor
Member
Killing Sara would in no shape or form make the story stronger. At least not anywhere near now. She's already been dead two times, she's also great addition to the show, she's also a bridge connecting flashbacks and present now that Slade had turned into villain and most of all she's the main connection to League of Assassins. You can kill Sara, in like 5 season. But now? That would make a show a lot worse than it is now.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
At this point I have complete faith in the creative team to deliver. They can kill off anyone and I trust them to make it work and make the story better because of it. They have earned our trust.
Hours Left
Member
This, all impact her death would have is gone. They've already played that card too much.
TacticalFox88
Banned
If they kill Diggle, I'll be so pissed.
We need our token minority!
We need our token minority!
Jest Chillin
Member
Great addition to the show... eh.. other than people thinking she's hot, I don't see it. The show already has trouble getting the entire principle cast scenes. There's just too many people for them to write effectively. Characters disappear for long periods of time or do little more than stand around in the background. Sara isn't needed as a bridge to the flashbacks and now that Nyssa's been introduced, been to Starling, and met Green Arrow.. there's more than enough connection to the League. Hell, Sara's death would give the writers an in to bring the League back as antagonists with Nyssa blaming Ollie for not saving/protecting Sara (misplaced blame is a consistent theme after all).
Other than the fans responding well to Sara, there really isn't anything preventing writers from killing her off.
Yeah, no. Her first death had no impact because nobody really cared about her as a character. She was a plot point to cause drama between Laurel and Ollie when he returned. The second death was what.. seconds long? She dies for good, it'll have plenty of impact.
If anything, that scene makes me think Sin is going to eat it.
It would effect Sara, but most importantly it would fuck with Roy, and that dude needs some proper motivation.
Killing Sara would be a huge mistake IMO, she has a far more interesting backstory then every other character. Killing her so soon would be a huge waste of potential crazy story arcs involving the league of assassins.
Plus, they can fix Laurels character, but I just can't see her ever being a good Canary. Ignoring looks and combat training, she also has terrible chemistry with Oliver, and that dynamic is one of the greatest things about Canary.
It would effect Sara, but most importantly it would fuck with Roy, and that dude needs some proper motivation.
Killing Sara would be a huge mistake IMO, she has a far more interesting backstory then every other character. Killing her so soon would be a huge waste of potential crazy story arcs involving the league of assassins.
Plus, they can fix Laurels character, but I just can't see her ever being a good Canary. Ignoring looks and combat training, she also has terrible chemistry with Oliver, and that dynamic is one of the greatest things about Canary.
Wiktor
Member
THat's a lot of excuses. Fact is Sara does have all those connections and delivers plenty of plot points to the show. You can get arround that, but it's still just that...getting around that.
Plus writers have completely screwed themselves when it comes to Black Canary. Kattie Cassidy will never be able to come anywhere near close to how Sara looks and moves. Nor will they be able to give her League of Assassin's background. Sara's death would mean the end of Black Canary in this universe as it's simply impossible for Laurel to replace her and not forever feel like a huge downrage.
The strenght of serialized medium is being able to make changes based on how well story is getting shown and recieved. Whatever plans writters had for positive Laurel's growth they went completely overboard with turning her into something loathsome. I can't remember the last time a character in a show was this universally hated. The only way to salvage it successfuly would be to use that hate to turn her into villain.
The Outsider
Member
I would enjoy Slade manipulating Laurel into a villain.
Hours Left
Member
There is still her island "death" coming up. It's too much.
Chuckie
Member
You kinda didn't, but Jest Chillin already dropped a truth bomb on you bigger than I (or Ollie) could ever deliver so let's leave it at that.
Jest Chillin
Member
How are those excuses exactly? The writers literally make up the narrative. This is a show that brought Malcom Merlyn from the dead and made him Thea's father.. well because. They made Sara Black Canary...because. They had her trained by the League...because. Acting as if they couldn't kill her off is really selectively choosing what's mandatory for the writers.
I disagree that the writers have screwed themselves in terms of a Laurel BC. Sara's physique is athletic. Sure. That's not actually a requirement for BC. Laurel's character has Martial Arts training as well and the show can ease her into BC through training with Ollie.. just the same as they're doing with Roy. Cassidy doesn't need to come close to Caity's moves either. Shows use stuntmen and women all the time. They'd lose possible Salmon ladder shots but really, not a huge loss.
Serialized shows' strength is continuity not flexibility. The more serialized, the more risk in changing the course away from the plan. Change can happen, but it needs to be done slowly and deliberately. In that sense, Arrow can go either way with keeping or killing off Sara and I think that the intent in trying to redeem Laurel is fully intended to skirt that line to drive speculation while also giving them options. However favoring Sara over Laurel is purely subjective. The writers can go either way without destroying continuity and that's really all that matters.
Really just depends on how they handle it. An on screen death would be too much but an off screen disappearance that leads Ollie to believe she's dead would be fine really.
Another problem with killing off Sara, if they do it soon, like by the end of this season, well everyone still hates Laurel, everyone is going to blame Laurel for Sara's death, and that's going to drive up the Laurel hate even more.
They need to make Laurel a good and interesting character before they even consider killing off Sara.
They need to make Laurel a good and interesting character before they even consider killing off Sara.
I don't see the reasoning that they have to kill of Sara for Laurel to become the canary. There isn't any reason their couldn't be two Black Canaries running around. Their mother obviously isn't being built up as a former vigilante and in the comics Laurel is the second Canary.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Then it's simple. We kill the Laurel.
Jest Chillin
Member
Just depends on how far they want to move away from Comic canon on such a major character. And whether or not they've changed their minds on Laurel and Ollie being destined to be together, or whatever it was they said early on in the shows run.
Hours Left
Member
Didn't he say that he saw her die? Obviously it could be anything, but he was pretty adamant.
Wouldn't be surprised though. I love his chemistry with Oliver and Felicity but he's never really had anything to do and with Sara's arrival he's just a suit standing next to Felicity in a few scenes per episode for no good reason.
Jest Chillin
Member
Technically he saw her die on the boat, saw Deadshot die in S1, and saw Slade die as well. People on this show need to get their eyes checked.
Edit: Malcom Merlyn as well I think..? Anyhow.. yeah. Can't believe anything in this show at all.
Rodney McKay
Member
What if they do it simultaneously?!
-Slade's got Sara by the throat with Oliver holding an arrow on him in current day.
-Flash to identical scene back on the island where Oliver shoots him in the eye, but Sara is thrown overboard with Slade, Oliver goes "NOOOOO!"
-Flash back to current day, Oliver shoots an arrow, Slade catches the arrow inches from his eye and says "not this time" (like a total badass), and shoves the arrow through her back.
-Oliver goes "NOOOOO!" again and starts to cry, Slade comes up to him and says "By the way, your mother and I just got engaged" and then leaves.
-Merlin shows up while Oliver is crying and tells him "by the way, I recorded you saying that I'm Thea's dad and totally just played it for her and now she hates you and is my new evil protege."
-Barry shows up as the Flash and says "curses! Even with my powers of super speed I was unable to save your girlfriend. Oh and by the way, Felicity is leaving the city with me and is going to be on my show from now on."
-Oliver continues to cry and runs away back to the island.
-Detective Lance and Laural show up after he leaves (Slade texted them "911 emergency at abandoned factory") to see Sara dead with Oliver's arrow and both of them are back to hating the Vigilantly again for the first half of season 3.
-Cue Radioactive: "Welcome to the new age. whoooaaa"
It's like poetry, it rhymes!
- Status