Support NeoGAF

[Khezu]

They did Suicide Squad too early.

They don't have enough interesting characters to warrant it, firefly dude was boring and died, Tiger was boring and didn't do anything.

The entire thing was basically just about Amanda, Diggle, and Deadshot, which isn't actually a bad thing, as those characters are great and need more screen time.

Could have at least gotten whats her face, ugly assassin lady with the wig.

Still, I enjoyed just for Dig getting something to do.

 

[V_Arnold]

And suddenly, Laurel is a perfectly fine character. Who would've thunk?

 

[Tugatrix]

Good episode, deadshot is really growing as a character, just add him to teamarrow already (

Spoiler

they accept everyone why not deadshot?

)

 

[Khezu]

And suddenly, Laurel is a perfectly fine character. Who would've thunk?

I wouldn't say perfectly fine, she simply wasn't annoying or offensive this episode.

Though she is taking the Ollie/Sara thing way too well, almost makes me think other people are right and they are only getting her into a good spot so Slade can finish her.

Next week spoilers

Spoiler

Birds of Prey episode should be pretty Laurel focused, so hopefully we get some development for her. I was actually hoping she would hate Sara for longer, so we could get a weird dynamic of her hating Sara, but respecting and working with Canary.

 

[Clevinger]

All right episode. As a non-comic reader, the whole Suicide Squad concept on this show just feels like quickly glued together fanservice. Outside of Deadshot, they haven't done anything to develop these guys. And I hate how they're underutilizing Michael Jai White.

Also, I'm sick of flashbacks in this show. They make everything else in the episodes feel rushed and underdeveloped.

- Caity Lotz was kind of totally bad in that daylight scene and it cracked me up.

Her acting makes me laugh until I realize we might be stuck with her. C'mon, Slade, do me a solid.

 

[Khezu]

Ya know, Ollie could probably just pay the League to kill Slade for him.

They probably wouldn't be able to, but they would slow him down enough for Ollie to get a handle on things.

 

[V_Arnold]

Her acting makes me laugh until I realize we might be stuck with her. C'mon, Slade, do me a solid.

Do not worry, he's a coming.

 

[Ragnaroz]

Sara's death is pretty much inevitable at this point. You just don't say "I'm not that easy to kill" twice in a TV show and survive very long.

 

[Cornballer]

- Extended promo for next week's episode (please spoiler tag any discussion)

 

[Cornballer]

- Onion A|V Club review

 

[RellyRell28]

Booooo!

Booo you for likeing fat disgusting Waller

 

[Clevinger]

spoilers for Laurel, taken from a showrunner interview

Spoiler

Episode 17 is the episode where Laurel gets her groove back. We knew that we wanted to return Laurel to the D.A.'s office, and we knew that, by the end of the episode, Laurel had to be in a good emotional place. So, we wanted to re-establish her, emotionally and professionally. And when you're talking about bringing her back to the D.A.'s office, you think about what case she's prosecuting.

Spoiler

So what was the point of spending the whole season tearing her and her life and her career apart if she circles back largely to where she was in the beginning? And why would the DA hire back a pill-popping drunk? what are you dooiiiiinnngg

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Also..dat ending. And Harley. I don't know how the actress will look in the role, but she sure nailed the voice. I suppose she will be shown in full when Suicide Squad appears again. Episode 19 maybe? It would fit with the bits and pieces we know.

She was just a stand in, they had Tara Strong deliver the line so I doubt they'll actually use Cassidy Alexa though it won't stop the on going suck-up fest on Twitter.

 

[Joni]

Fantastic episode. Deadshot and Diggle make a good team. Otherwise it was very much the small touches that made the show. Felicity in her pyama, Harley, the swimming comment, Ben Browder all made the episode fantastic.

I seriously hope not, I'm actually starting to like Laurel. Think they turned a corner with her, would be a shame to just kill her now.

She turned a corner, so now we can care about them killing her.

They did Suicide Squad too early. They don't have enough interesting characters to warrant it, firefly dude was boring and died, Tiger was boring and didn't do anything.

Or now they can let it grow. We can see it evolve.

 

[V_Arnold]

spoilers for Laurel, taken from a showrunner interview

Spoiler

So what was the point of spending the whole season tearing her and her life and her career apart if she circles back largely to where she was in the beginning? And why would the DA hire back a pill-popping drunk? what are you dooiiiiinnngg

Spoiler

So you literally are the crowd cheering "FINISH HIM" at the gladiator battle. Literally. Except that it is a her. Besides, there are many redemption stories. it is a basic archetype of storytelling.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

This episode was really good, i like Diggle getting more fleshing out and a bigger role in the show. Next episode looking amazing.

So are we totally done with the island flashbacks?

 

[StopMakingSense]

So are we totally done with the island flashbacks?

? Of course not.

 

[Wiktor]

Spoiler

So you literally are the crowd cheering "FINISH HIM" at the gladiator battle. Literally. Except that it is a her. Besides, there are many redemption stories. it is a basic archetype of storytelling.

Spoiler

Indeed. Hopefully it's the "died while saving others" kind of redemption

 

[Clevinger]

Spoiler

So you literally are the crowd cheering "FINISH HIM" at the gladiator battle. Literally. Except that it is a her. Besides, there are many redemption stories. it is a basic archetype of storytelling.

Spoiler

The purported reason for this whole season of tearing down Laurel was to develop her into Black Canary. They said she was going to be torn down to be built up as a superhero. Instead, they had her walk in a circle. Besides making no sense whatsoever, the DA hiring her back hurts that as well. She's going back to fighting crime with the law, just like last season. If Laurel is ever going to be Black Canary, they're going to have to destroy her job (again) and probably kill Sara (again), which will once more break her down to be built up again.

Believe me, I want Laurel to be a good character. I want all of that drama she (and we) suffered through this season to matter. Most importantly, I want Sara and her redundancy and shitty acting and storyline-hogging to go away.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Spoiler

The purported reason for this whole season of tearing down Laurel was to develop her into Black Canary. They said she was going to be torn down to be built up as a superhero. Instead, they had her walk in a circle. Besides making no sense whatsoever, the DA hiring her back hurts that as well. She's going back to fighting crime with the law, just like last season. If Laurel is ever going to be Black Canary, they're going to have to destroy her job (again) and probably kill Sara (again), which will once more break her down to be built up again.

Believe me, I want Laurel to be a good character. I want all of that drama she (and we) suffered through this season to matter. Most importantly, I want Sara and her redundancy and shitty acting and storyline-hogging to go away.

Spoiler

I don't understand why you think they need to break her down again. She can keep her job as DA and fight crime, since she wouldn't be the only superhero and most of the crimes happen at night and they can easily suit her up and start her time as a hero with no name before Sara dies, then make Sara's death a galvanizing moment in her progression rather than having her break down. Or a myriad of other things that don't need her to go through a breakdown cycle again.

 

[Clevinger]

Spoiler

I don't understand why you think they need to break her down again. She can keep her job as DA and fight crime, since she wouldn't be the only superhero and most of the crimes happen at night and they can easily suit her up and start her time as a hero with no name before Sara dies, then make Sara's death a galvanizing moment in her progression rather than having her break down. Or a myriad of other things that don't need her to go through a breakdown cycle again.

Spoiler

Because the writers say it's required. The first breakdown did nothing, so they're going to have another to turn her into a vigilante unless they've changed their minds.

 

[Malmorian]

Deadshot was amazing in this episode, I really liked his and Diggle's development. Waller and the Suicide Squad was really well handled IMHO, and i'm looking forward to more of them in the future!

It's really too bad that Michael Jai White is really underused as Bronze Tiger. He's a great actor and is capable of shooting great action scenes.

DAMN this show is good!

 

[Jest Chillin]

Spoiler

Because the writers say it's required. The first breakdown did nothing, so they're going to have another to turn her into a vigilante unless they've changed their minds.

Spoiler

That's a rather rigid interpretation of what the writers have said. The first breakdown didn't do nothing. It did a lot. In just this episode she's shown that she's put her own feelings aside by trying to help Ollie and Sara with their communication issue. She's a different person as a result of what she's been through. You seem to be dead set on the idea that her becoming a hero has to be right on the heels of her crucible when it doesn't and the writers have never said it does. They just said she had to go through one at some point to put her character in a reasonable place to make that transition.

 

[Clevinger]

Spoiler

That's a rather rigid interpretation of what the writers have said. The first breakdown didn't do nothing. It did a lot. In just this episode she's shown that she's put her own feelings aside by trying to help Ollie and Sara with their communication issue. She's a different person as a result of what she's been through. You seem to be dead set on the idea that her becoming a hero has to be right on the heels of her crucible when it doesn't and the writers have never said it does. They just said she had to go through one at some point to put her character in a reasonable place to make that transition.

Spoiler

What does being able to communicate her feelings better or putting her feelings aside have to do with becoming a vigilante, in a show full of people who became vigilantes because they were damaged and/or insane? How does that make it a reasonable place to transition into a physical, costumed crime fighter?

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

Spoiler

What does being able to communicate her feelings better or putting her feelings aside have to do with becoming a vigilante, in a show full of people who became vigilantes because they were damaged and/or insane? How does that make it a reasonable place to transition into a physical, costumed crime fighter?

Spoiler

Her entire characterization this season has been "Me! Me! Me! Pay attention to my pain!"

The change here is that she is beginning to think of other people as being actual people with their own problems, rather than actors in her personal melodrama.

She spent the whole season being incredibly selfish, and now she is starting to show some signs of selflessness. That's a central arc in the origin of a lot of superheros. Look at Spider-Man, Thor, Green Arrow, Iron Man - its a common lesson that needs to be learned before the cape can be earned.

 

[Wiktor]

It's really too bad that Michael Jai White is really underused as Bronze Tiger. He's a great actor and is capable of shooting great action scenes.

I'm sure he will get a chance to shine in the future and I'm awaiting that episode.
Soo.....Team Arrow plus Suicide Squad vs Slade?

Also..the only way Laurel would work as a superhero is if she traveled to China and learned the secret art of drunken fist. ...Actually that would be kind of awesome

 

[Revolver]

I guess I need to give this show a shot. My wife loves it and was flipping out over the Harley cameo.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Spoiler

What does being able to communicate her feelings better have to do with becoming a vigilante, in a show full of people who became vigilantes because they were damaged and/or insane? How does that make it a reasonable place to transition into a physical, costumed crime fighter?

Spoiler

They're not all damaged or insane. Diggle and Felicity aren't extensively broken and they help. Roy isn't either (and he's been trying to do good since before Merlin's attack on the city). The characters don't have to all be vengeful maniacs. The point of putting her through those issues was to move her from somewhat-spoiled and naive to a more grounded outlook. At this point she'll no longer look at the actions of Arrow and Co with a moral superiority complex. She won't trust the justice system alone to do what must be done. She'll be better positioned to stop being a damsel in distress and actually decide to do something. That wouldn't have worked with her older characterization but can work with here post-crucible characterization.

 

[Gibbo]

Urgh. Caity Lotz is a terrible actress I think. Not as terrible as the actress that plays the Huntress- but still terrible

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Such an odd episode. Going by the amount of effort they put into promoting it, I would have thought it would have been more fleshed out. Diggle's mission in Russia earlier this season seemed more Mission Impossible than this Suicide Squad episode.

Probably just a matter of them juggling a lot of stories in one episode. Might have been weird to completely drop the Ollie/Slade thing for a spin-off adventure...but honestly I wouldn't have minded.

 

[Lashley]

Brilliant episode, and Harley Quinn!

 

[Khezu]

spoilers for Laurel, taken from a showrunner interview

Spoiler

So what was the point of spending the whole season tearing her and her life and her career apart if she circles back largely to where she was in the beginning? And why would the DA hire back a pill-popping drunk? what are you dooiiiiinnngg

Spoiler

Quickly and efficiently getting her character into a good spot with the audience so they will be kinda upset when Slade kills her, instead of the entire fanbase jumping up and down with glee.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

spoilers for Laurel, taken from a showrunner interview

Spoiler

So what was the point of spending the whole season tearing her and her life and her career apart if she circles back largely to where she was in the beginning? And why would the DA hire back a pill-popping drunk? what are you dooiiiiinnngg

I wish I had a gif of Gary Oldman's laugh turning into crying from the Fifth Element.

Laurel was tolerable in this one though.

 

[Clevinger]

Spoiler

The point of putting her through those issues was to move her from somewhat-spoiled and naive to a more grounded outlook. At this point she'll no longer look at the actions of Arrow and Co with a moral superiority complex. She won't trust the justice system alone to do what must be done. She'll be better positioned to stop being a damsel in distress and actually decide to do something. That wouldn't have worked with her older characterization but can work with here post-crucible characterization.

Spoiler

They did that last season. She overcame her moral superiority over the vigilante after working with him and bypassing the law. And this was when Ollie was straight up murdering people every episode. Then she regressed after Tommy's death. So it again feels like spinning wheel characterization in certain ways, going back to a very similar place as season 1.

You make good points, so I hope I'm overreacting. They aren't all crazy and the brother blood thing damaged her trust in the law. The latter was one of the few things I liked, even if they handled it poorly in execution.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Spoiler

They did that last season. She overcame her moral superiority over the vigilante after working with him and bypassing the law. And this was when Ollie was straight up murdering people every episode. Then she regressed after Tommy's death. So it again feels like spinning wheel characterization in certain ways, going back to a very similar place as season 1.

You make good points, so I hope I'm overreacting. They aren't all crazy and the brother blood thing damaged her trust in the law. The latter was one of the few things I liked, even if they handled it poorly in execution.

Spoiler

They sort of did that last season. It was more about her accepting that he was good after he'd saved her a half a dozen times rather than her overcoming her moral superiority. That's why she was so quick to flip on him when Tommy died. He was only good in her eyes as long as he was saving people, specifically her and people she cared about. She was self righteous, selfish, and naive.

The thing is, it really could go any direction at this point and I think that's intentional. They want to play with this ambiguity because it keeps the viewers involved. I mean look at how much we're talking about her character in terms of what if's and motivations compared to last year. The writers initially said that Laurel will become BC but it will take "longer than what [the viewer] wants." I think they regret revealing that and so now they're playing with the characters and leaving an air of uncertainty about will she still be BC or has that changed? Is she making progress towards the mask or being setup for death?

It's either really well done subtlety or I'm giving them way too much credit and misreading everything. lol

 

[Clevinger]

Spoiler

They sort of did that last season. It was more about her accepting that he was good after he'd saved her a half a dozen times rather than her overcoming her moral superiority. That's why she was so quick to flip on him when Tommy died. He was only good in her eyes as long as he was saving people, specifically her and people she cared about. She was self righteous, selfish, and naive.

Spoiler

Yeah, it makes sense when you put it like that.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Why does Bronze Tiger's jacket have so many zippers

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Why does Bronze Tiger's jacket have so many zippers

Zippers are the new pouches.

 

[Dominican Power]

Loving that two stars of Spartacus have big roles on this show.

 

[fallengorn]

Why does Bronze Tiger's jacket have so many zippers

Bronze Tiger loves jrpgs.

 

[Omega]

Loving that two stars of Spartacus have big roles on this show.

now it just needs Gannicus

 

[Clevinger]

btw, since we're talking about Laurel's development, some reddit people spotted this:

text on the bottom says, "League Champion set to retire after a storied career takes him to all corners of the globe." They think it's Ted Grant, aka Wildcat, the dude who trains Laurel in the comics. Someone was saying it's shown up in news feeds multiple times.

 

[8bit]

I really enjoyed that one, more Deadshot please.

 

[JDSN]

Im glad the casting agent's cousin who plays Deadshot finally got those acting lessons, really solid episode although White was underused, you dont hire him for you show and not get him to woop a guy or two.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Why does Bronze Tiger's jacket have so many zippers

Meant to look like tiger stripes

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

btw, since we're talking about Laurel's development, some reddit people spotted this:



text on the bottom says, "League Champion set to retire after a storied career takes him to all corners of the globe." They think it's Ted Grant, aka Wildcat, the dude who trains Laurel in the comics. Someone was saying it's shown up in news feeds multiple times.

Who from Sparticus could play Wildcat?

or just who in general should play Wildcat?

 

[LumpOfCole]

btw, since we're talking about Laurel's development, some reddit people spotted this:



text on the bottom says, "League Champion set to retire after a storied career takes him to all corners of the globe." They think it's Ted Grant, aka Wildcat, the dude who trains Laurel in the comics. Someone was saying it's shown up in news feeds multiple times.

I thought this was a Twitch Plays Pokemon reference.

 

[Chariot]

Booo you for likeing fat disgusting Waller

She wasn't called "The Wall" for nothing. Now she is more of a fence...pole. Why shouldn't fat people be succesful and menacing?

 

[Tugatrix]

Why does Bronze Tiger's jacket have so many zippers

He forget about the claws many times and cut the jacket, then he solves the problem with a zipper

 

[Jest Chillin]

Who from Sparticus could play Wildcat?

or just who in general should play Wildcat?

Ted Grant has a pretty big upper body. Dustin Clare (Ganicus) could probably play the role if he's still in shape from Spartacus. I think Grant is traditionally a former Heavyweight boxer, so if they were going to be super close to the comics, the actor should probably be taller than Manu, but it's not necessary really.