Se7enSword
Banned
Horrible choreography, bad fights all around...then that retarded ending.
WHY
I really should drop this.
WHY
I really should drop this.
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Arrow Season 4 |OT| A Tale of Salt and Fire
- Thread starter ZeroX03
- Start date
- Status
StopMakingSense
Member
I wouldn't have a problem with the fights if they just didn't look so damn SLOW.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
Merlyn going back to being a villain is fine. It was the whole "Our friend who murdered our other friend and blew up the projects but he's cool" phase that was bad.
OdysseusVA
Banned
Turrible
Dude, link them and add a "v" to the end.
.gifv
It'll load a smaller sized video and not an 18mb gif lol
Dude, link them and add a "v" to the end.
.gifv
It'll load a smaller sized video and not an 18mb gif lol
MHWilliams
Member
When you're a pure support on Arrow, you get the better, more subtle writing. Laurel is better away from plots focusing on her, much like Diggle.
If you put the focus back on Laurel, she'll tank just as hard.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Christopher Nolan directed this episode?This. This is just atrocious. Missed cues, terrible miming, botched choreography.
It's like the director didn't say "action" until the very last second and everyone was waiting on their cues.
Season 4 has given us some great fights, I just don't understand how they vacillate so wildly in quality.
AND WHAT IS THIS GUY EVEN DOING LOL
It's the same drunk-ass ghost from here:
CMojicaAce
Member
That Thea kick reaction...
Reminded me of this
BigJonsson
Member
So is that other Mayoral candidate going to get busted too? lol
Is Ollie going to restart his campaign?
The city needs a mayor!
Is Ollie going to restart his campaign?
The city needs a mayor!
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Why don't they save the good action directors for episodes like this where you need them? The fights were a hot mess.
The episode overall was so-so. There were some things I liked, and then some things that I hated. Amell's acting has gotten so much better over the years, he really sold that fatherhood speech at the end.
I guess they have to find a way to have Felicity give Oliver the ring back since that's how the grave scene at the start of the season opened, but the breakup makes no sense to me. It actually seems at odds with what we got in the episode. Felicity was understandably upset, but then it seemed like she mellowed out when she saw that it was an impossible decision...and one that sort of makes sense given their lifestyle. But then she does a 180 degree turn on that in the last moment of the episode.
And Dhark doesn't know Oliver is the Green Arrow? He has literally been 2 feet away from both of them, seems like the type of thing he could just figure out. Especially given how he already thinks they have a close relationship. I know they tried that fakeout earlier in the season, but it just seems like pointless to have that revelation escape him. Dhark is already targeting Oliver specifically.
Vixen was a mixed bag for me. Some of her lines were absolute clunkers, and they didn't really give her many opportunities to show how badass she was. She got force chocked and thrown around by Dhark just like everyone else...twice. She stole the totem and smashed it, which was definitely nice. But I feel like they missed out on having her slam around some of the Ghosts or something.
I liked Laurel and Lance in this one. And Diggle had some solid and sage-like advice, per usual. Speaking of Diggle, judging by his recent guest appearance on The Flash, I think a new mask or costume is happening soon. Diggle complained about the mask and Cisco said he'll whip something new up.
That was terrible way to end, especially if they're going on a month long break. That isn't an interesting hook, especially since we've been doing this same dance for several seasons.
I'm really losing interest in Dhark as well. Maybe they should have introduced him later in the season, because they don't have any juice to make it last over 22 episodes. Flash is having the same issue for me with Zoom. It's a lot of villain postering, how they're so badass but they can't kill the hero yet...blah blah. I think they should stop feeling the need to introduce the main villain from the jump and build up to them, and then introduce them in the midseason, or around that point.
The episode overall was so-so. There were some things I liked, and then some things that I hated. Amell's acting has gotten so much better over the years, he really sold that fatherhood speech at the end.
I guess they have to find a way to have Felicity give Oliver the ring back since that's how the grave scene at the start of the season opened, but the breakup makes no sense to me. It actually seems at odds with what we got in the episode. Felicity was understandably upset, but then it seemed like she mellowed out when she saw that it was an impossible decision...and one that sort of makes sense given their lifestyle. But then she does a 180 degree turn on that in the last moment of the episode.
And Dhark doesn't know Oliver is the Green Arrow? He has literally been 2 feet away from both of them, seems like the type of thing he could just figure out. Especially given how he already thinks they have a close relationship. I know they tried that fakeout earlier in the season, but it just seems like pointless to have that revelation escape him. Dhark is already targeting Oliver specifically.
Vixen was a mixed bag for me. Some of her lines were absolute clunkers, and they didn't really give her many opportunities to show how badass she was. She got force chocked and thrown around by Dhark just like everyone else...twice. She stole the totem and smashed it, which was definitely nice. But I feel like they missed out on having her slam around some of the Ghosts or something.
I liked Laurel and Lance in this one. And Diggle had some solid and sage-like advice, per usual. Speaking of Diggle, judging by his recent guest appearance on The Flash, I think a new mask or costume is happening soon. Diggle complained about the mask and Cisco said he'll whip something new up.
That was terrible way to end, especially if they're going on a month long break. That isn't an interesting hook, especially since we've been doing this same dance for several seasons.
I'm really losing interest in Dhark as well. Maybe they should have introduced him later in the season, because they don't have any juice to make it last over 22 episodes. Flash is having the same issue for me with Zoom. It's a lot of villain postering, how they're so badass but they can't kill the hero yet...blah blah. I think they should stop feeling the need to introduce the main villain from the jump and build up to them, and then introduce them in the midseason, or around that point.
Team Filler
Member
I'll be honest, I thought that was a legitimately great moment, especially when thinking back to how Oliver's dad kind of did the same thing for him and Thea.
Gotta love smart guy Dhark, someone steals the source of his power and his reaction is a quick quip and then off outside to very slowly strangle 3 unrelated people. What could possibly go wrong?
Only way to redeem this series now is for the man in the grave to be Jay.
Only way to redeem this series now is for the man in the grave to be Jay.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Always interesting to see how your own opinions are different from someone else's:
The AV Club reviewer gave this week's episode an A-.
The same reviewer gave last week's episode, which I thought was much stronger, a C.
The AV Club reviewer gave this week's episode an A-.
The same reviewer gave last week's episode, which I thought was much stronger, a C.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
I'm almost to the point where I`d be fine if S5 of Arrow and s3 of Flash starts with Flashpoint and once it's over it New 52s the hell out of this show and leaves Flash alone.
Retcons, recasts, New show runner, etc.
Retcons, recasts, New show runner, etc.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
It went from being legitimately good, and then just took a nosedive frighteningly quick. I don't even mind the Felicity and Oliver Drama all that much, usually. But this just felt tacked on and lazy. And then for that...that to be the moment where she can walk again so she can walk out the door....*sigh* That's when you just start saying "Fuck you" to the TV as the episode ends. And then they don't even have a stinger for us. Like maybe showing who is in the grave finally. Or teasing it. Or something!
I still enjoy this show. But literally everything about this episode felt rushed. Even the flashback, where you expect Oliver to have to fight that ghost guarding the door...but nope, he can just pass by. It's like they had a fight scene there and didn't have time to film it.
We've already done this so many times. All of Season 3. Felicity even had a new love interest. Just break them up then. Oliver has to be alone, Felicity focuses on her company. Or have them together, they get married and have babies and whatever. But the "Will they, won't they" well is fucking dry.
JESUS, what a terrible episode.
Where does one even begin? The crappy writing, the unnatural reactions, the terrible directing, the staggeringly low budgets this show as reached where a hallway set has been used at least THREE times to portray three different places, all of it encompassed in one episode. Why does Oliver act about the same emotionally as an individual who misplaced his keys when he discovers his son has been kidnapped? We are talking about HIS SON and he acts the way he always does, hey idiots about about son anger? You know a barely controlled rage that lashes out at anyone that questions his decisions?
Why is he barely able to shed a tear when telling his son he won't be seeing him for a very long time? Why is he dropping out of the mayoral race? William is back safely with his mom is he going to re-enter the campaign? If not, what was the purpose of that plot? What was the point of crippling Felicity if she was just going to end up walking two episodes later? Why doesn't someone kill Malcolm? Why didn't they kill or at the very least CAPTURE Damien Dahrk as he was disabled and knocked-out? WHY? WHY? WHY?
The only natural reaction in this episode was Felicity breaking up with Oliver, despite what some people are saying William's fate was ABSOLUTELY a decision she should have been included in. Felicity is supposed to be becoming his wife, you know his life time partner he's supposed to trust and make a part of his life and decisions. Its bad enough he kept William a secret but that can be excused since the mother expressly told him to not tell anyone. But, afterwards Felicity had every right to be a part of the decision making process of his future with Oliver. After all, if she marries Oliver, William will become her step-son. I would think she should be allowed some say with regards to an entirely new development regarding her relationship with Oliver.
Of course, because Oliver is a retard who acts like a psychopath he decides the best thing to do is to ship William away onto the island where all unnecessary/troublesome characters go without informing anyone else of his decision. You are officially the worst fiance ever.
Who is writing this shit? Do these people have emotions?
Where does one even begin? The crappy writing, the unnatural reactions, the terrible directing, the staggeringly low budgets this show as reached where a hallway set has been used at least THREE times to portray three different places, all of it encompassed in one episode. Why does Oliver act about the same emotionally as an individual who misplaced his keys when he discovers his son has been kidnapped? We are talking about HIS SON and he acts the way he always does, hey idiots about about son anger? You know a barely controlled rage that lashes out at anyone that questions his decisions?
Why is he barely able to shed a tear when telling his son he won't be seeing him for a very long time? Why is he dropping out of the mayoral race? William is back safely with his mom is he going to re-enter the campaign? If not, what was the purpose of that plot? What was the point of crippling Felicity if she was just going to end up walking two episodes later? Why doesn't someone kill Malcolm? Why didn't they kill or at the very least CAPTURE Damien Dahrk as he was disabled and knocked-out? WHY? WHY? WHY?
The only natural reaction in this episode was Felicity breaking up with Oliver, despite what some people are saying William's fate was ABSOLUTELY a decision she should have been included in. Felicity is supposed to be becoming his wife, you know his life time partner he's supposed to trust and make a part of his life and decisions. Its bad enough he kept William a secret but that can be excused since the mother expressly told him to not tell anyone. But, afterwards Felicity had every right to be a part of the decision making process of his future with Oliver. After all, if she marries Oliver, William will become her step-son. I would think she should be allowed some say with regards to an entirely new development regarding her relationship with Oliver.
Of course, because Oliver is a retard who acts like a psychopath he decides the best thing to do is to ship William away onto the island where all unnecessary/troublesome characters go without informing anyone else of his decision. You are officially the worst fiance ever.
Who is writing this shit? Do these people have emotions?
WordsintheWater
Member
They absolutely have no clue what made this show so awesome in seasons 1 and 2. 4 was okay until this fucking episode. My God did I shake my head in disgust a bunch of times. Come the fuck on. A story where Oliver is fighting to get his son back and it's done so freaking terribly. Then at the end of the episode they outdo how terrible it was already by doing something even worse. Only redeeming part was Oliver's speech to his son, a really great moment there. I'm gonna try and wipe this episode from my memory. I don't know what the fuck they are doing with this show. They're literally doing the opposite of everything people want.
I really have to wonder who exactly thought that was a good way to end the episode going into a month long break?
Who out there is actually going to be hyped for the return when the main prospect for the remainder of this season is a return to S3's brooding Oli and crying Felicity being rammed down our throats for half of each episode. that nonsense almost killed the show for me once already, i dont know if i have the patience to endure that again.
Who out there is actually going to be hyped for the return when the main prospect for the remainder of this season is a return to S3's brooding Oli and crying Felicity being rammed down our throats for half of each episode. that nonsense almost killed the show for me once already, i dont know if i have the patience to endure that again.
MikeBreezy92
Member
Tbh I would gave the episode a B- because they botched the Felicity can walk again plot. Thought the episode itself beyond that was fine.
Its no where near as bad as anything S3.
WrenchNinja
Member
This guy killed hundreds of people! Why are they still palling around with him!
Wasn't terrible, but wasn't exactly good either.
Doesn't help that I've been rewatching seasons 1 and 2 with my housemate, as she'd only seen The Flash and her experience with Arrow began when she watched my other housemate and I suffer through season 3.
She's just started S2 and loving it. So am I. What happened.
Doesn't help that I've been rewatching seasons 1 and 2 with my housemate, as she'd only seen The Flash and her experience with Arrow began when she watched my other housemate and I suffer through season 3.
She's just started S2 and loving it. So am I. What happened.
WordsintheWater
Member
She was terrible
Okay acting, weak CGI. She's no Constantine.
Supermanisdead
Member
Omg lmao this episode was a fucking tragedy. The ending had me howling. Felicity LITERALLY WALKS OUT on him. LITERALLY. LIT.ER.ALLY. WALKS OUT THE DOOR. How fucking hamfisted can you get.
Damien fucking Dahrk.............. Your magic totem is stolen and you...??? ???? ???????????????????????????? Fucking idiot.
Damien fucking Dahrk.............. Your magic totem is stolen and you...??? ???? ???????????????????????????? Fucking idiot.
Question for you guys.
How many more seasons would you like to see Arrow continue for? Is this a show that deserves 7 seasons like Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Or would you like to see it keep going for 10 seasons like Smallville or Supernatural?
I've said this before, but it feels like Greg Berlanti and his creative teams are stretching themselves thin by juggling four different DC comics shows. I can't help but feel like Arrow ran out of steam after The Flash debuted, and I don't see it ever reaching Season 2 levels of quality again.
How many more seasons would you like to see Arrow continue for? Is this a show that deserves 7 seasons like Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Or would you like to see it keep going for 10 seasons like Smallville or Supernatural?
I've said this before, but it feels like Greg Berlanti and his creative teams are stretching themselves thin by juggling four different DC comics shows. I can't help but feel like Arrow ran out of steam after The Flash debuted, and I don't see it ever reaching Season 2 levels of quality again.
Team Filler
Member
Zero more if the writing stays this bad.
Supermanisdead
Member
And can someone PLEASE kill Malcolm already. Jesus CHRIST. He's just casually hanging out in all yalls apartments after he killed hundreds of people, including his own fucking son and Sara and Thea........ Why doesn't Nyssa just come kill him after all he's done to her?????? Doesn't she need to eliminate the threat???????? I bet he takes back the League of Assassins because none of these morons will ever take care of him.
WordsintheWater
Member
If it continues like this I hope it stops real soon. I'll just fondly remember the first 2 seasons.
You don't burrow the Barrowman
Supermanisdead
Member
Barrowman has no shame. They'll keep him on the show as long as he wants to stay. Let your character die, dude. It's over. Get a new job.
I don't think it's Barrowman's decision.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
"You'd be dead a hundred times over if it wasn't for me"
NO YOU FUCKING FUCK! She's in that position BECAUSE of you.
Ugh.
The same people who once summarised as episode as "Felicity and friends...".
NO YOU FUCKING FUCK! She's in that position BECAUSE of you.
Ugh.
The same people who once summarised as episode as "Felicity and friends...".
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I think Amell said his contract was until 2019, if I remember correctly. I doubt it goes beyond that. It wouldn't be that hard for them to replace it with another DC show by that time. I would be okay with it ending there, usually genre shows have run out of steam after so many years.
I think it has less to do with Berlanti and more to do with the nature of these shows. The writing stays in a neat box. Arrow suffers because the same characters are just bouncing off each other, the people they introduce never last long (how many love interests of Thea's have just bounced?) and the show doesn't take many chances. Flash is already showing signs of the same thing. You can geek out to Flash a little more because they're doing alternate worlds and time travel, but the writing is usually still paper thin. Meta human appears, Barry gets knocked down during first encounter and they escape, comes to terms with personal issue, fight meta human again and beat them. They keep people coming back with the stingers and villain hooks, but aside from that, the average episode is just that formula.
Arrow is a strange beast in that it goes for a darker tone, but it rarely ever gets serious. I feel Buffy grew up over time with its audience, Arrow and Flash are shows are written to be broadly understood. There is never any subtlety.
I enjoy both of them on a certain level because they're nerdy and sometimes the banter is good, but I think they're pretty comfortable with what they are and don't really aspire to be more. Arrow started reaching for it in Season 2 because they had something that had been building since the show started, but it's trapped in a formula now too.
Even Merlyn's part in this episode was silly. Have a fight with Thea, acted disgusted that she would even ask if you were involved in the kidnapping. Then the truth comes out and you give a speech about how it was for the best. We. Have. Already. Done. This.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
If it was like S1 and 2 then for as long as it can go.
If it's like 3 and 4 then just long enough to do Cheshire`s arc and maybe a good Huntress and Question.
Piku_Ringo
Banned
Um how does Laurel know Vixen?
"Yo laurel, Barry and I talked to this woman in Detroit who has crazy magic animal powers"
"oh cool"
* Laurel watches TV*
"Detroit News here with another report on the mysterious hero known as Vixen who has saved victims in a car crash"
Not as down on the episode as some but really not liking Darhk's first real defeat here. He knew she stole his idol. And his plan was to go force choke some people. Does it not occur to him that his powers were about to get nuked?
Should've had it be that she used her animal powers to stealth it away or something so he wouldn't know.
Should've had it be that she used her animal powers to stealth it away or something so he wouldn't know.
0 more if they're all going to be like this. I'd rather they let this die than keep dragging it out.
Season 2 of Vixen takes place before this aired episode. She meets Laurel then.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Okay, that makes more sense. I was wondering why they were BFFs, she was nicer to Laurel than she was Oliver.
Vixen gets a Season 2??
BewareTheBatsie
Member
SHE LITERALLY JUST GOT UP AND WALKED AWAY. NOTHING HOLDING HER BACK, NOT EVEN A STUMBLE, JUST CURED BY THE POWER OF ANGST?
BewareTheBatsie
Member
I can't believe they actually acknowledged the fact Oliver's cheating ass was with Samantha around the time he was with Laurel. It was handled really well, and I'm happy they didn't pull a 180 and have Laurel be super-pissed off. The scene in the station where she confesses that it hurts despite the fact she doesn't know why given Oliver had cheated on her before was actually subtle, but powerful. I know everyone doesn't want the two to happen, but at times during scenes like this I keep thinking that Laurel still has feelings for Oliver.
Also on that topic, Felicity just looks more childish for breaking up with Oliver for not telling her compared to Laurel handling the news that Oliver cheating on her literally resulted in a child like a pro.
Also on that topic, Felicity just looks more childish for breaking up with Oliver for not telling her compared to Laurel handling the news that Oliver cheating on her literally resulted in a child like a pro.
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