Arrow Season 4 |OT| A Tale of Salt and Fire

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Dysun said:
I'd put Legends and Arrow on the same level without hesitation
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I don't think I could agree with that. Even Arrow S3 has been better than Legends so far. Sara, Cold, Heatwave, and Atom are literally carrying a paper thin story that has to find ways to not answer the question of "why don't they just throw Vandal Savage into space?"

strafer said:
Sarah is nowhere in the same league as Laurel.
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I'm glad we're in agreement that Sara hasn't sunk that low ;)
 
Joni said:
She was already the superior character in season 2.
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I think Laurel has had a much better arc from start to where we are now. She's gone through a lot & come out a pretty strong hero. Cant help but think they're really dropping the ball by not taking advantage of her as a DA. She could serve out her own justice to criminals that get off on technicalities & other shenanigans.

Honestly, I'd much rather the 20 minutes or so each episode that are given to meaningless flashbacks go to Laurel having her own story that intersects with whatever the Green Arrow is facing. Make her not just a sidekick; but rather another vigilante in Star that teams up with Ollie when the situation calls for it.
 
hey_it's_that_dog said:
The canary cry is incredibly stupid as it is now, and furthermore, if it's so fucking great and it's just a wearable device, why don't they all use one? And why does she only use it like once every 2 weeks?

(Arrow is a bad show, guys.)

Also the fight scenes are all total junk now and every other episode starts with a van or truck chase. Okay I'm done.
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I still haven't even bothered to watch LOT.
I just never understood why it existed. They really didn't need a third Arrowverse show so soon, and even if they did, throwing together a bunch of side characters is not the way to do it.

I would have rather had a Birds of Prey show.
 
Legends has great characterization but a very shaky storyline. Watching it is pretty much an indulgence in fan service. I honestly think scrapping the time travel, changing the antagonist and making the team a little smaller will really help focus it. Because as the showrunners admit, the show was literally just an excuse to give some good characters more screentime.

That said, Sara was always better than Laurel. Except for the suicide episode.
 
I want Sara back, not just because she's much hotter, a more interesting character and better fighter but because she and Oliver were by far the most healthy couple. Would have made the marriage to Nyssa even juicier.
 
This shit is hilarious. Lots of talk in the S2 thread about Caity Lotz being a shitty actress and how her ugly-costumed, pouty-faced shitty canary crying ass needed to be murdered several times over between exaggerated gifs and pictures of Katie Cassidy's chin. Now she's tearing shit up in Legends and ya'll want her back. Okay, sure.

If the writers are shitty enough to kill Laurel off and replace her with Sara, we all know what's going to happen. There's either going to be calls to remove her and the rest of the "sidekicks" for being props outside of Olicity, or people will call for her re-redeath when she gets tangled up in some inevitable relationship drama.
 
Claude Augario said:
This shit is hilarious. Lots of talk in the S2 thread about Caity Lotz being a shitty actress and how her ugly-costumed, pouty-faced shitty canary crying ass needed to be murdered several times over between exaggerated gifs and pictures of Katie Cassidy's chin. Now she's tearing shit up in Legends and ya'll want her back. Okay, sure.

If the writers are shitty enough to kill Laurel off and replace her with Sara, we all know what's going to happen. There's either going to be calls to remove her and the rest of the "sidekicks" for being props outside of Olicity, or people will call for her re-redeath when she gets tangled up in some inevitable relationship drama.
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Are you sure that is by the same people? Because you'll probably find these are the people that liked Sara already in S2. Some others might be slower.
 
People who say Caity Lotz is a bad actress were always wrong. I liked her since she first showed up on Mad Men way back, and if it seemed like her performance in Arrow were stilted, I chalk it up almost entirely on the writing. She's having so much fun on Legends and it shows (well, except in the first episode where everybody's still gelling with the new...everything). So that said, I actually hope she fucking clings to Legends like death to avoid being sucked into the dark abyss that is Arrow.

Lotz is also the most natural at fight scenes out of the entire Arrow/Legends cast, by far.
 
I wouldn't call Lotz a bad actress, or a good one. She has a stoic demeanor that well suits her work on both Mad Men and Arrow. Sara isn't a character that does a great deal of emoting, she deals with things through her physicality and that's Lotz' strength as a trained fighter and dancer. She fits the intents of the role well.
 
Lotz was awful in arrow

But oh look at that give her a more likeable personality such as in mad Men and legends and she does perfectly fine

Some people can just work with certain kinds of characters

I like laurel these days tbh. When they ditch their soap opera secrecy in the show its more tolerable

I love melodrama, big reason why I think a few xmen movies are some of the best of the genre, but it's not handled well in this show.
 
ZeroX03 said:
I wouldn't call Lotz a bad actress, or a good one. She has a stoic demeanor that well suits her work on both Mad Men and Arrow. Sara isn't a character that does a great deal of emoting, she deals with things through her physicality and that's Lotz' strength as a trained fighter and dancer. She fits the intents of the role well.
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I'd call her a bad actress. She was terrible on Mad Men, just completely awful. She's passable on LoT/Arrow solely because she can play to her strengths with the fight scenes.
 
Umm so apparently
Katie posted an image from on set of funeral stuff even though the image is a photoshop from Moria's funeral in S2 so people are using that as reason to fuel the fire that Laurel is in the grave
 
Joni said:
They left out another quite important show:
Their own running Batman show, Gotham
.
And fantastic how they keep Wolowitz actor saying he doesn't know these things.
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Gotham makes more sense to be left out but Arrow, Flash, and Legends all film in Vancouver around the same place so it's not like they had to go out of their way to ask questions.
 
strafer said:
Glad to see you on the superhero side.
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I'm not usually into TV shows that much due to how much commitment you have to put in and the fear of putting in said commitment and it end up sucking, but so far Flash and Arrow have been great. I like Flash more because I'm a Spider-man guy myself and I just simply like the more colorful and light tone of that show, but Arrow is great in a Batman sort of way.

What pretty much opened my eyes to superhero shows at least was Daredevil last year, that shit knocked my socks off. I was sick a few weeks back and when that happens I tend to binge stuff on Netflix, saw Flash on there and heard good things. Took a few episodes but it got its hooks in me. Then, naturally with the crossover nature and really liking Felicity (that's right haters) I got interested in Arrow.

In the end I've been impressed at the storytelling, characters, performances and so on way more than I thought I would be. It's nice to have something light and something dark to balance out. All this being said, I probably shouldn't even be in this thread yet.
 
brandonh83 said:
I'm not usually into TV shows that much due to how much commitment you have to put in and the fear of putting in said commitment and it end up sucking, but so far Flash and Arrow have been great. I like Flash more because I'm a Spider-man guy myself and I just simply like the more colorful and light tone of that show, but Arrow is great in a Batman sort of way.

What pretty much opened my eyes to superhero shows at least was Daredevil last year, that shit knocked my socks off. I was sick a few weeks back and when that happens I tend to binge stuff on Netflix, saw Flash on there and heard good things. Took a few episodes but it got its hooks in me. Then, naturally with the crossover nature and really liking Felicity (that's right haters) I got interested in Arrow.

In the end I've been impressed at the storytelling, characters, performances and so on way more than I thought I would be. It's nice to have something light and something dark to balance out. All this being said, I probably shouldn't even be in this thread yet.
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Be sure to check out Gotham, Legends of Tomorrow and Supergirl also.
 
StaticJam said:
Umm so apparently
Katie posted an image from on set of funeral stuff even though the image is a photoshop from Moria's funeral in S2 so people are using that as reason to fuel the fire that Laurel is in the grave
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People think it's some kind of damage control. The cemetery shoot and hair cut pics really seem to spoil Laurel's death. The doctored image puts Katie in a scene with modern Chesthair, as opposed to only in the flashback scene with bad hairpiece Chesthair, which is probably Sara''s funeral.
 
MHWilliams said:
A huge focal point of many heroes are their relationships. Oliver Queen in the comics had Dinah Lance, Sandra Hawke, Faith, Bonnie King, Manitou Dawn, and Joanna Turner.
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Yeah but let's face it, in the comics Oliver spends a lot of time by himself solving problems by himself, without the help of some Oracle earpiece or Diggle or anything.

Only in special situations would he ever need them.
 
StaticJam said:
Umm so apparently
Katie posted an image from on set of funeral stuff even though the image is a photoshop from Moria's funeral in S2 so people are using that as reason to fuel the fire that Laurel is in the grave
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Yeah I saw that photo and it screamed damage control.
 
Effect said:
Weird that the Gotham people weren't in this. They did s #WhoWillWin video first I think. Especially since Lucifer got time. Strange. I really don't recall the Arrow cast doing one at all though.
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I think Lucifer is actually filmed in Vancouver. THey do amazing job at hiding it (heck, the whole show is really beutifully filmed) though.

So it made sense for them to take Ellis, since probably was like two sets away., while Gotham is being filmed in New York.
 
The problem isn't too many characters. It's that no one exists outside of Olicity. Killing characters off just gives them an excuse to continue ignoring everything else. Seriously, what is Thea even doing with herself now? What do people even think is magically going to happen to the writing by offing a bunch of regulars?
 
Claude Augario said:
The problem isn't too many characters. It's that no one exists outside of Olicity. Killing characters off just gives them an excuse to continue ignoring everything else. Seriously, what is Thea even doing with herself now? What do people even think is magically going to happen to the writing by offing a bunch of regulars?
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It gives them more time to spread over the remaining characters though. It is the same reason Malcolm needs to go.
 
Claude Augario said:
The problem isn't too many characters. It's that no one exists outside of Olicity. Killing characters off just gives them an excuse to continue ignoring everything else. Seriously, what is Thea even doing with herself now? What do people even think is magically going to happen to the writing by offing a bunch of regulars?
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Well..for one superhero part of the show will improve, because at this point they've turned Oliver into pathetic chump, just to make other character feel less useless. And this is superhero show. Superheroics at the core of it.
Plus does anyone really care about Laurel's private life?
 
KonradLaw said:
Well..for one superhero part of the show will improve, because at this point they've turned Oliver into pathetic chump, just to make other character feel less useless. And this is superhero show. Superheroics at the core of it.
Plus does anyone really care about Laurel's private life?
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I did, made the city feel a lot bigger and more alive.
 
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
Thea is an odd example, she has a BF, she still has her club and she's simultaneously handling Oliver's campaign. She has plenty to do.
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We never see the club. Her "boyfriend" and Oliver's campaign literally exist in one place, by the lair. The characters have had their lives truncated and condensed into things that only occasionally serve the plot. They stopped being people.

Joni said:
It gives them more time to spread over the remaining characters though. It is the same reason Malcolm needs to go.
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You really think that's going to happen in a post-Olciity world? Where do you think all that time went in the first place? It's certainly not being taken up by the 5 or so seconds it takes for Laurel to do her canary cry pose. Most of these characters have been around since season 1 but all of a sudden they're the problem? They lost their identities and that started back around season 3. I remember feeling like Roy was on a trajectory in seasons 1 and 2. He used to be a douche! When he put on the suit, he ceased being anything. He was just there. he was so forgettable that he got blasted by Ray's energy blast and was left a crumpled mass in a damp Vancouver lot.

KonradLaw said:
Well..for one superhero part of the show will improve, because at this point they've turned Oliver into pathetic chump, just to make other character feel less useless. And this is superhero show. Superheroics at the core of it.
Plus does anyone really care about Laurel's private life?
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Ollie gets nerfed when the story calls for it, just like Barry. As much as people loved The Climb, the reason Ollie lost was because he looked like a child fighting an adult. Peak Mirakuru slayer Ollie would have had a completely different fight, and that has nothing to do with making his friends look good.

Basically I want the writing to improve. It was never great but it took a nosedive in season 3 and started to recover a bit. Sounds like other people want them to cut elements and pray that the writing somehow comes together because of it.
 
The Silver said:
I did, made the city feel a lot bigger and more alive.
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That's terribly inefficent way of achieving that. But this is a problem most of those types of shows have. They don't put enough focus on city, it's citizens and how villains and superheroes' actions affect him.
Gotham is pretty much the only show that tackles this issue in any way.
 
Claude Augario said:
Ollie gets nerfed when the story calls for it, just like Barry.
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Yes they do. But in Flash even when nerfed Barry remains by far the strongest person on the good side, which is why that's tolerable. On Arrow when he gets nerfed he gets brought down to the level of his sidekicks or lower. So the effect is much worse.
Plus it's just waisting time and space. You will never get to see those other characters have life outside being a sidekick as long as they remain sidekicks. Because between Oliver doing his thing and having to show everybody else being superheroic there just isn't enough time to how much else. In such scenario Oliver is the only one who gets to have some sort of life.
Both Laurel and Diggle were better characters when they weren't running around in masks. Thea at least has some of that mystical killer mumbo jumbo to fall back on when in field.
 
Claude Augario said:
You really think that's going to happen in a post-Olciity world? Where do you think all that time went in the first place? It's certainly not being taken up by the 5 or so seconds it takes for Laurel to do her canary cry pose. Most of these characters have been around since season 1 but all of a sudden they're the problem? They lost their identities and that started back around season 3. I remember feeling like Roy was on a trajectory in seasons 1 and 2. He used to be a douche! When he put on the suit, he ceased being anything. He was just there. he was so forgettable that he got blasted by Ray's energy blast and was left a crumpled mass in a damp Vancouver lot.
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They have been around that long but they were mostly hated. The time spent on their lives was hated more than Olicity. Mods had to step in all the time.
 
KonradLaw said:
Well..for one superhero part of the show will improve, because at this point they've turned Oliver into pathetic chump, just to make other character feel less useless. And this is superhero show. Superheroics at the core of it.
Plus does anyone really care about Laurel's private life?
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She doesn't have a private life due to the writers ignoring her. No matter what happens the writers will just continue to crap on the other supporting characters like they did with Roy and imo Ray last season. This show is a drama before a superhero show and the annoying thing is that when characters are in the spotlight they end up doing things that just make people dislike them.

I miss season one because that's when I felt the series had the best status quo.
 
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