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Arrow Season 4 |OT| A Tale of Salt and Fire
- Thread starter ZeroX03
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What people here need to realize is that the breakdown between female and male viewership for the CW is 52/48. Male viewership is growing, but the CW is still mostly watched by females.
Laurel may have the most growth, doesn't change the fact that she was the most useless team member and least utilised in the story. Chesthair and Merlyn have far less screen time and do more, she was literally getting paid to stand in frame and occasionally speak a few lines that Diggle could probably cover. Her "big" storyline this season was to act out of character crazy to bring Sara back and risk lives in the process.
Also show needs more Olicity, let's get those ratings up!
Also show needs more Olicity, let's get those ratings up!
Jorok Goldblade
Member
Next season we'll learn that Felicity was on the Island.
Supernatural people must be happy, that they have a CW show where fanbase reacts with agression towards any romance
That opens up a whole new can of worms, as Supernatural ends up getting rid of all their female characters, good or bad.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
Wouldn't be surprised given the bullshit retcon of season 3 in the flashbacks to have Olicity be practically destiny with Oliver fucking smiling when seeing her when he returned briefly to Starling.
Exploratory
Banned
I'm kind of amazed coming into this thread. For me there was no coming back for Laurel. I hated her because she was a shit character. Now they made great strides with her character but there's no coming back I'm sorry. I was glad to see her go. And now people are turning on felicity and mourning Laurel? How the tables have violently been flipped over...
KonradLaw
Member
And that's a good thing. Not every show needs to have women in their regular cast.
It's almost as if characters that get shit writing and bring the show down at their time are disliked, shocking! Laurel has been such a non-entity the last two seasons that she has had no positive or negative impact. Meanwhile everything involving Felicity has brought the show down.
rockman zx
Member
I hope this is true and not a trick, he was and forver will be the inferior canary and Casidy is not good in this role (action), at least in my opinion.
The show is pretty bad right now anyway, by far the worst superheroe show on tv.
The show is pretty bad right now anyway, by far the worst superheroe show on tv.
Guggenheim on the possibility of killing Diggle:
And Lance:
http://www.etonline.com/tv/186214_e...r_was_killed_instead_of_the_other_characters/
The Outsider
Member
Every time Guggenheim opens his mouth I get more and more furious. How did this asshole fail upward into this job?
Didn't do a thing with Laurel as BC but has way more stories to tell with Diggle? What stories? All dude had was suicide squad (no more thanks to WB) and hive plot (done this season).
Also those B.S explanations for Lance and Felicity smh. Might as well just said we need the Lance for Felicity's mom.
Also those B.S explanations for Lance and Felicity smh. Might as well just said we need the Lance for Felicity's mom.
Septimus Prime
Member
How do you "spin off" your main character? This is not Jack Tripper moving to Three's A Crowd here.
almost every episode since Season 3, her story has centred entirely around her relationship with Oliver and every episode features her crying over something (justified or not) and it's just completely brought the character down. Emily isn't a very good dramatic actress either so it's painful to watch.
Anything outside that, she's still pretty great
- but having to suffer through all that other crap
just isn't worth it.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
Oh yeah but killing off Oliver's childhood friend/the woman he loved for half his life, Thea's surrogate big sister and Quentin's daughter just has no effect on the other characters. I mean no offense to Diggle but his death would really only have affected Oliver and Felicity truly since he was never shown close with Laurel or Thea. I don't get this point at all.
Why not?
Strife In a Teacup
Member
What if William Shatner was on the island?
What if Keith David was(played) Diggle's dad.
Strife In a Teacup
Member
KonradLaw
Member
Variety for one. It creates different dynamic when there are only male regular cast members. The whole show becomes manlier, often in a good way. One of my favorite shows from couple years back was Human Target. It was incredible in first season and the three leads were all men. This is a show that was utterly destroyed when they introduced two women into the regular cast. They were actually pretty fun characters, but it killed the style and atmosphere first season had.
Now, of course, I don't want every show like this. I just like variety, so aside from shows with mutligendered regular cast I also want to see those with only one gender as lead characters, because it creates different dynamics and the more variety in tv shows the better.
MHWilliams
Member
The Supernatural deaths have mostly been worse than the deaths on Arrow. Simply wasteful for no reason.
MikeBreezy92
Member
Arrow-Mite?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Unless that changed in this season the deaths have been so inconsequential. How often did Castiel die by now? And when will Sam get laid again, dudes clearly pent up a lot of stress.
Aside from Oliver and Sarah, Felicity is next up in line when it comes to chemistry.
MikeBreezy92
Member
Oliver and Sarah had chemistry?
Funny thing is, I was starting to see the Laruel/Oliver chemistry in the episodes leading up to her death. Oh well.
Funny thing is, I was starting to see the Laruel/Oliver chemistry in the episodes leading up to her death. Oh well.
Septimus Prime
Member
Yeah, but that's what it took to fix the show in the long run. It was awful while it was happening, but new season 11 is better for it because it avoids all the dumb extra characters.
Escape Goat
Member
dead souls
Member
Yeah, no. Even at its best Supernatural has had a huge misogyny problem that one has to overlook to enjoy the show.
Nope and that's why S11 is getting a lot of praise.
Escape Goat
Member
Maybe I will tune back in.
This. To be honest what the did to Charlie still pisses me off. Though you could have seen it coming once she came back. It's only a matter of time before Jody's time is up and that one is going piss me off again. To like Supernatural you pretty much should not get attached to any character that is not Sam or Dean. Eventually they're likely to be done wrong. At best you can hope for a decent send off.
I just caught up to the latest episode.
Man. After that was done I had a legit moment of reflection. One of those little moments of silent disquiet when unconsciously you find yourself staring into space and opening yourself up to self-loathing and minor internal crisis. Ollicity, man...I can't. I can't. I can't.
My next gaf thread: "Someone explain to me the long term appeal of Arrow."
Except now I'm on the other side of the looking glass.
Man. After that was done I had a legit moment of reflection. One of those little moments of silent disquiet when unconsciously you find yourself staring into space and opening yourself up to self-loathing and minor internal crisis. Ollicity, man...I can't. I can't. I can't.
My next gaf thread: "Someone explain to me the long term appeal of Arrow."
Except now I'm on the other side of the looking glass.
Now that Oliver and Felicity have broken up, I wonder what Oliver's source of income is. How is he feeding himself? Who pays Diggle?
Strife In a Teacup
Member
He uses the campaign funds.
Claude Augario
Member
Everyone saying that Laurel was a non-entity or didn't do much are just exposing the writing on this show - Laurel made huge personal strides. She was the rock bottom character that got fired for substance abuse problems and turned that shit around to becoming the DA, but all anyone can remember is Olicity because that's the only thing that gets attention on this show.
As a DC character, Arrow barely scratched the surface of the Black Canary.
As a DC character, Arrow barely scratched the surface of the Black Canary.
TheProdigal
Member
He gets money from thea since shes still gets money from her evil daddy i guess
They killed Charlie and kept Crowley's grating mother. BOOOurns
Don't remind me
I wonder how much upkeep is on the Arrow Cave. Can't be cheap, even without an Arrowmobile or decent security.
Since the 2nd half of season 2 for me.
Slade trying to murder everyone because he was upset that Oliver didn't save shadow ( Oliver's gf at the time) over Sarah was terrible writing.
It seems like whenever Greg Berlanti moved on to developing a new show... The previous one got worse.
Arrow S1 and 2 = Good
Arrow season 3 bad, flash season 1 good
Arrow season 4 bad, flash season 2 mediocre Supergirl mediocre ledgends mediocre
Strife In a Teacup
Member
Well they must hijack a power supply because they clearly don't pay the bill regularly.
I'd argue that Supergirl got much better after the winter break.
Discotheque
Banned
That episode was actually pretty decent until the absurdly stupid last minute
Skip the island parts (as always) and you have a great arrow episode. No felicity, decent action scenes, some compelling drama between oliver/diggle, hell Oliver improved his acting too
I liked it. So awful that they make Laurel fine and then she dies like a minute later lmao. Not only should that be felicity in the grave but also it's painfully obvious with that speech that she died to keep olicity alive
Skip the island parts (as always) and you have a great arrow episode. No felicity, decent action scenes, some compelling drama between oliver/diggle, hell Oliver improved his acting too
I liked it. So awful that they make Laurel fine and then she dies like a minute later lmao. Not only should that be felicity in the grave but also it's painfully obvious with that speech that she died to keep olicity alive
Guggenheim on the possibility of killing Diggle:
And Lance:
http://www.etonline.com/tv/186214_e...r_was_killed_instead_of_the_other_characters/
I totally believe that this team has more stories to tell with Diggle than Laurel. If they have any good Canary things to do they'll rightfully go to Sara.
Oliver always had a little bit of money.
Felicity probably pays for it all.
If there's two things the Arrowverse doesn't care for, it's dealing with money and the logistics of time travel.
Yeah, I will admit that felt a little harsh. Out of the 4 CW verse shows Supergirl is the only one I'm currently enjoying. It gets a lot right and has moments of greatness. But overall it just hasn't got there enough. I'm really hopeful that a 2nd season will see the show take a leap forward.
Also James "Don't call me jimmy" Olsen is the worst. He's almost as bad as an Arrow romantic interest
BewareTheBatsie
Member
It was said somewhere I think by someone on the show that a broke billionaire is still a millionaire. I keep thinking Felicity should be the poorest one, Palmer Tech should be bankrupt given that she refused to fire employees when she should have. But then again Palmer Tech is just used as a setting for Curtis scenes half the time and never for an actual company.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Yeah... So Laurel didn't have any more interesting stories to tell but Donna Smoak a huge well of intrigue and possibilities? Chesthair is too important as an "outsider" or whatever we know the real reason they're safe is because they're getting put together to please the crowd they continue to insist they don't write for despite a mountain of examples that seemingly contradicts it. Diggle? What the hell does Diggle have left aside from potentially fathering another kid that won't matter to Arrow? If he said maybe, they're more blank slates they can do anything they want with maybe that would've been better but all his reasoning and justifications are eye rolling as fuck.
This show was never going to be on a Breaking Bad like level of writing or hell it's not even in the top five on its own network that basically only has like 10 shows but goddamn... At least with The Flash as bad as the writing gets at least there's generally something to redeem it, even if not entirely.
And speaking of the audience, Arrow, despite the pandering to shippers is still a show predominately watched by males if the Nielsen ratings are to be believed.
I hope Stephen's has a movie career takes off beyond playing Oliver Queen meets the Ninja Turtles.
I kind of wonder exactly when Andrew Kriesberg moved to focus more on getting the Flash up and running leaving Guggenheim more free reign over Arrow. But yeah, the shit really started to get stupid with Slade's motivations which they couldn't even keep straight as they eventually ruined that character. He should've been the reoccurring villain, not Malcolm who should've been dead last season.
Stephen brought that up but it was still a dumb excuse when even in the season 2.5 comic which was claimed to supposedly be some sort of canon with the show, they addressed financial problems IIRC.
This show was never going to be on a Breaking Bad like level of writing or hell it's not even in the top five on its own network that basically only has like 10 shows but goddamn... At least with The Flash as bad as the writing gets at least there's generally something to redeem it, even if not entirely.
And speaking of the audience, Arrow, despite the pandering to shippers is still a show predominately watched by males if the Nielsen ratings are to be believed.
I hope Stephen's has a movie career takes off beyond playing Oliver Queen meets the Ninja Turtles.
I kind of wonder exactly when Andrew Kriesberg moved to focus more on getting the Flash up and running leaving Guggenheim more free reign over Arrow. But yeah, the shit really started to get stupid with Slade's motivations which they couldn't even keep straight as they eventually ruined that character. He should've been the reoccurring villain, not Malcolm who should've been dead last season.
Stephen brought that up but it was still a dumb excuse when even in the season 2.5 comic which was claimed to supposedly be some sort of canon with the show, they addressed financial problems IIRC.
Mama Smoak was never a real candidate for death. I'm not sure why people thought she was, it was always going to be a regular. She's recurring comic relief.
Strife In a Teacup
Member
Diggle needs to be back in the mix like S1/S2. He is the Cisco of Arrow, he has to stay. Diggle is awesome.
Malcolm will most likely be the big bad of S5 and die at the end. Maybe we'll get the actual Dr. Light that even Caitlin and Cisco hinted at in the original crossover, saying that Harrison Wells didn't get along with him.
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