panthapanda
Member
I agree. That was a great, touching performance. Great scene.
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Arrow Season 4 |OT| A Tale of Salt and Fire
- Thread starter ZeroX03
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I agree. That was a great, touching performance. Great scene.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
I don't get you all wanting Tommy to come back. It would be so pointless.
Komodo's role kinda got taken up by Merlyn to some degree.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Why bother calling it Arrow if you're going to treat the Green Arrow mythos like shit.
Why bother making a show or a movie if you just want a 1:1 repeat of the comic? The comic exists for that.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Interpretations are one thing but certain aspects are beloved and define a character in the minds of the viewer.
They've stripped a lot of that away from this show, and as a result the people have gradually lost faith in it to the point where ratings have slumped. And Guggenheim celebrating an uptick in ratings is sad given how low they've been.
God knows what those idiots at Arrow are going to do for extra "pop" now. Maybe they should try writing a decent show.
Second highest of the network is 'low'? It only dropped in the relative ranking because The Flash premiered.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
The return came in at 0.90 (of the key demo). The average for this season is 0.98. For a premiere after a hiatus I don't find that impressive, but I suppose it is something for Guggenheim to celebrate especially when the one before that came in at 0.79. Hell... episode 16 was at 0.72 which is legends of tomorrow level of bad.
But The Flash is doing much better thankfully. Which is an example of a show that manages to honour the source material whilst doing its own thing.
I wonder how they feel about that show eclipsing the one it spun off from.
MHWilliams
Member
They have?
Season 1 was the strongest the demo, but otherwise, Arrow is Arrow.
Season 2 (0.9 rating in the 18-49 demographic with 2.62 million total viewers)
Season 3 (1.01 rating in the 18-49 demographic with 2.76 million total viewers)
In reality, the numbers break out Season 1 > Season 3 > Season 2.
This season has mostly been on par, with the exception of the Cupid episode (Broken Hearts) and Diggle/Brother Shenanigans (Eleven-Fifty-Nine).
You believe the audience aligns with your gut, but looking at the numbers... not really. Arrow is a solid performer for CW. I expect Season 2 numbers again.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Yes I do feel that. I certainly shouldn't feel genuinely angry when watching it but yet I do to the point where I haven't even bothered to catch up with the latest episode.
But hey, if they want to shift audiences and turn it into a pitiful soap-opera then that's on them. But as a writer myself I cannot forgive how utterly shit the writing is. Frankly it is insulting that professionals managed to produce some of the crap that got put into production this season.
And to be honest I think my feelings have been built up over the past two seasons with hostility arising from the empty promise that the show will be back on course this time around. It hasn't, and likely won't.
I just don't think I can ever tolerate another scene with Diggle asking Oliver how he feels about Felicity.
johnnydrama
Banned
Haven't bothered with this show since that horrible episode where Felicity stood up and fucking walked out of the room. Has it gotten any better? Worth going back?
The average ratings are quite consistent, which goes against television trends. Most shows drop year over year, as live television watching drops. Following chart shows that being flat year over year puts Arrow in the top 10 of all returning network shows.
http://www.vulture.com/2016/03/2015-2016-tv-season-in-one-depressing-chart.html
Just stop watching if you don't like it.
http://www.vulture.com/2016/03/2015-2016-tv-season-in-one-depressing-chart.html
Just stop watching if you don't like it.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
I have stopped watching it.
MHWilliams
Member
Oh, I have no problem with your issues about the show's writing, merely the contention that it was in a ratings slump.
Okay, then you were discussing stuff that you didn't watch. That makes it kind of hard to discuss the story for you, like when talking about the villain in the latest episode.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Some of the recent episodes are bottom of the barrel ratings wise, even for Arrow. I believe episode 16 was the 3rd lowest of the entire series (1-4) so far.
Darhk's motivations should have been clearer earlier on, and not shown in the 11th hour of the season.
I'd watch the episode but if it is people moping around and crying a lot then I'll give it a pass.
EDIT: I just checked and villain-wise it centred around Darhk's wife? Did they mention anything about what he's up to or are they going to quickly wrap that up in a few episodes? Because not knowing anything about what he's doing by the 19th episode of the season is pretty damn poor.
First episode after Daylight Savings Time of the year.
MHWilliams
Member
First episode after Daylight Savings and it was a poor filler episode.
Once again, here's the poor performers of Season 4. (under .8)
0.72 - Broken Hearts
0.79 - Eleven Fifty Nine
Season 2 has a particularly rough run of episodes and didn't end on a high note for the show.
0.74 - The Promise
0.79 - Deathstroke
0.71 - The Man Under the Hood
0.69 - Seeing Red
0.78 - Streets of Fire
The finale for that season was only an .86. In contrast, the finale for the maligned Season 3? 1.00. And that entire run up to the was above .9.
You'll note that some of those poor performers are our favorite episodes.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
A lot of people (including me) stuck it out after season 3 due to the promise that it'll get better. So during that period they had their "new fans" who watch it for wholly different reasons that aren't related to the comic book property it is based off alongside the ones who flogged themselves with a run of poor episodes hoping that maybe it'll get better.
Laurel's death episode came in at 0.79, and due it being a deal breaker for some I have to wonder if Arrow will average out at a lower rate from here on out. I certainly hope it does, and that they'll actually bother to improve the show next time.
Because as it stands the big problem with this show is that the melodramatic elements have taken precedence over the genre aspect. By that I mean the plot with Darhk seems secondary to the point where no one knows what in the fuck his motivation is nor what he is doing by the end of the 19th episode.
We currently have 4 episodes left and I bet they fill it with more melodramatic shit that is largely unrelated to what should be the main plot.
Laurel's death episode came in at 0.79, and due it being a deal breaker for some I have to wonder if Arrow will average out at a lower rate from here on out. I certainly hope it does, and that they'll actually bother to improve the show next time.
Because as it stands the big problem with this show is that the melodramatic elements have taken precedence over the genre aspect. By that I mean the plot with Darhk seems secondary to the point where no one knows what in the fuck his motivation is nor what he is doing by the end of the 19th episode.
We currently have 4 episodes left and I bet they fill it with more melodramatic shit that is largely unrelated to what should be the main plot.
Just stop conjuring illusions about the ratings and how they reflect your feelings. You may not like it but Arrow is doing just fine as many have pointed out in this very thread.
As for the villains plans all of the berlantiverse shows have been shit on that this year. Zooms plan was and is pitiful, supergirl had the same problem as arrow in talking about the plan without showing it till two episodes before finale and legends doesn't even seem to have one. That said we found out about the undertaking in season one 3 or 4 episodes before the end in an episode called The Undertaking. Guess what the next episode is called Genesis and it is three episodes before the end of the season.
I miss S1 Shadow. She was great
I highly doubt Laurels death will move the needle for most people. She's always been a poorly realised character. Me and my friends have been calling her Annoying Lawyer Girl since season 1. The internet always seems to get caught up on arrows "melodramatic elements" being a new thing when they have been there since season 1. The only difference is now they are being written worse then ever and rarely follow the shows internal logic or general common sense.
I can't...
Just stop watching the show. You've done nothing but complain for two years now. You're never going to like it again. The audience and the producers do not match up with your perceptions.
Team Filler
Member
If Zoom isn't sorted out to your expectations by the end of this season, I hope you stick to this kind of sentiment and stop watching The Flash.
It's not like I've been complimenting plenty of aspects of the show outside of Zoom. But I have been making plenty of empty threats to stop watching the show and making misinformed statements about the ratings. Get a grip.
Team Filler
Member
So that's a no, then.
The ratings comment was wrong, but apart from that I don't see any problem with somebody coming in here to discuss what a piece of shit an episode was as long as they put in the time to actually watch the episode.
The ratings comment was wrong, but apart from that I don't see any problem with somebody coming in here to discuss what a piece of shit an episode was as long as they put in the time to actually watch the episode.
That reminds me, how did the hallucination Shado give Oliver that magic rock? That whole thing was in his head -- he shouldn't have actually had that!
RellyRell28
Banned
Wow at all the hostility. Can we please go back to talking about Willa's booty pic on Instagram.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
That pic got deleted but thankfully this is the internet.
KonradLaw
Member
Yeah. But rape isn't going to ever happen on CW superhero show. It would be funny to see people whine that they've copied Talia's storyline though, even when Shado did it first.
RellyRell28
Banned
Well she deleted it on her's but it's still up on the guy who took the pic's instagram
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Where
I actually do have a problem with people who do nothing but hate watch a show and contribute nothing but complaints for years. Last I checked I wasn't in the Shield thread talking about how much I hate it.
That would be her boyfriend.
Plasticine
Member
Deleted from her Instagram. Gone forever, just like the chances of Tommy ever coming back.
The internet always forgets, and Arrow never revives. It's sad.
I assume people would be more endearing if the was actually anything to really talk about. For a show with only a few more episodes in the season left, its been rather uneventful. Like we could talk or apeculate about Dahrks plan for a whopping 5 minutes because we still know nothing.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Where
Plasticine
Member
It's still on Nate Walton's Instagram.
Septimus Prime
Member
I'm telling you guys. Ethanol. Darhk's plan is to secretly increase the amount of useless additives in gasoline to wreck everyone's cars.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Uh... Is this dude a stalker or something?
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Don't worry. I've got it.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Ohhhhhhh
Napoleonthechimp
Member
For the third year I stuck it out in the hopes it would get better. It didn't. They made promises that it'd be on track for the fourth season but that has turned to shit.
There will be no sticking it out for a fifth season.
And if you can't see how not knowing the antagonist's motivations or overall plan by the 20th episode is indicative of a bigger problem with the writing of this show then you deserve what they've got cooked up for you.
Doing good work friend
The latter part is indeed important. People here also don't mind discussions on actual content but he has a tendency to discuss things when even the show has said the opposite. That is very different from how Zero discusses The Flash, and he even stayed away from The Flash topic after that bad reveal for a while. At one point, people have to realize that if they don't like a show, to just drop it and stop pretending they know what happened in episodes.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
I've watched all but one episode, so don't give me this "stop pretending they know what happened in episodes" crap.
The thing about this show (or was as the case may be) is that I don't just watch it as a viewer. I watch it as a writer who knows full well that professional writers have done a poor job and THAT is what pisses me off. The fact they've gotten to the level they have and can't be fucking bothered to put in the effort is insulting to me, almost on a personal level.
But I get it that some won't understand that. However, it likely won't stop bothering me until they come out and actually address the glaring faults with the show (so either never or in the run in to season 5).
Speaking as a writer myself, I think you really are simplifying how difficult it is writing a show like this and saying they're not putting the effort in suggests you have no idea what you're talking about.
Particularly as, in this case, the demographics they're appealing to DO respond to the elements of the show that you, and others here, hate. So these writers script an episode every eight days (try it sometime, it's incredibly difficult with no pressure let alone TV show pressure), while helping plan future episodes and dealing with restraints (actor needs time off, gotta hit these beats, gotta have a crossover scene.)
Quality? That's debatavle. But seriously implying these writers half ass scripts and their jobs is outright erroneous. And as you say you're a writer, you'd know that even the easiest bit of writing you'll ever do is tearing pieces of your creativity and slamming then onto a page, which is tiring on levels most people can't correlate.
You were complaining about them adding a character you didn't even see in action. As for you being a writer and watching like that, that doesn't really matter as you seem to think they want to write a different show and are failing. They seem to be largely writing the show they were hired for. A mix between romance drama and action. It is the same reason why you can't blame the Transformers writers for not making citizen Kane. They are simply not making the show you think it is. That has nothing to do with your writing skills.
OdysseusVA
Banned
I don't know, man. Guggy might be the exception.
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