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[Thabass]

Well...the original FFVII is still open world, simply that you can't just go anywhere 100% from the start of the game, but tbh you can't even do that in the very beginning of FFXV either...

So I don't know what to say but....did you guys seriously forget FFVII was open world? Cause its sounding like many actually didn't even play those titles in that case.

Could you believe FFXV? Out here having cars and an airship and letting us fly around an open world, piff... why can't it be like the old Final Fantasies bro? Like...why can't it be more like this? /s

So maybe some of you are overreacting and need to actually play those older titles. A title can be "boring" linear too bud, FFXV being "boring" had nothing to do with having an open world with a vehicle as that is the default format for most of the older Final Fantasy titles..

Its linear like this because its also a game being made in stages and the game will open up more like the original Final Fantasy VII.

You tell me when all the parts come out and you have a fucking car, airship etc now it will be boring having transportation and an open world? Soooooo did you forget thats in the original and in FFXV or? So to ask it to not be open world, is to ask it to not even be the original title in regards to its actual layout and format.

Openworlds and OVERWORLDS aren't the same thing. They're just hubs to get you to the next town. Sure, you can go freely and explore and do certain missions in them, so in that sense, they are similar. But, I wouldn't call it an open world.

 

[TrainedRage]

It’s almost like it’s a game remade from the 90’s. Who would have thought?!?!

So sick of these “journalists”. Wonder if they even played the game?

 

[Tiamat2san]

Nah I’m good the way it is..
Open world stuff will come in a limited way once we are out of Midgar.

 

[LordKasual]

I take linear design of FFVIIRemake over boring open world in FFXV any day.

The funny thing about FFXV's open world is that, functionally, it was no different from the way the Overworlds in the original FF games worked at all. It was a vast, wide-open space full of (basically) nothing but encounters, with a few serious sidequests hidden along the way. Primarily used to travel between point A and B, but you can get lost leveling/fighting along the way and just take in the sights when you get bored and don't want to progress.

The one thing XV actually DID have that I haven't encountered in a Final Fantasy game since 7-9 was the fact that you could explore a completely unassuming area among the nothingless and happen upon an ENTIRE 30-60+ minute dungeon, complete with puzzles and boss fights.

That, and i feel like the open world was used as a brilliant mechanic to both demonstrate a plot point and provide some fun challenges at night that you wouldn't get otherwise in an FF game. Walking around at night and having a horde of daemons appear was a fucking blast for the entirety of the game to me.

This is something that I really pray FF7R will still have to some degree, but i doubt it's possible due to the fact it only takes place in Midgar.

 

[Jtibh]

Totally feels like ff13.
And i hated that one.
I know the demo is not representative of the final game but there was soo much pointless task in it up the ladder down the ladder up and down, run through laser beams for no reason etc.
Level desing is booooooring.
Combat is a fucking mess not to mention how long that final boss took me and it was hard.
Then i got stuck for a while cuz barret died and i had to kill those turrets that were up on a platform and i had no magic left to cast fire and couldnt do shit with my sword.
This game is broken.
If the final game is the same i aint buying it ever.
Its not fun and gone is the charm the characters had. Now its just all serious and flashy .
Kingdom hearts is fun. This is a mess

 

[Danjin44]

The funny thing about FFXV's open world is that, functionally, it was no different from the way the Overworlds in the original FF games worked at all. It was a vast, wide-open space full of (basically) nothing but encounters, with a few serious sidequests hidden along the way. Primarily used to travel between point A and B, but you can get lost leveling/fighting along the way and just take in the sights when you get bored and don't want to progress.

The one thing XV actually DID have that I haven't encountered in a Final Fantasy game since 7-9 was the fact that you could explore a completely unassuming area among the nothingless and happen upon an ENTIRE 30-60+ minute dungeon, complete with puzzles and boss fights.

This is something that I really pray FF7R will still have to some degree, but i doubt it's possible due to the fact it only takes place in Midgar.

The problem is in FFXV there are not many town and cities, Do you know why game like Xenoblade and DQXI felt bigger than FFXV even tho they were linear games? Because you visited different location, towns and cities.

Combat is a fucking mess not to mention how long that final boss took me and it was hard.
Then i got stuck for a while cuz barret died and i had to kill those turrets that were up on a platform and i had no magic left to cast fire and couldnt do shit with my sword.
This game is broken.

I wouldn't call myself most skill player out there but I played on normal mode and I never died once, I actually enjoyed the combat system and I was very, very skeptical when the Remake first announced.

 

[LordKasual]

The problem is in FFXV there are not many town and cities, Do you know why game like Xenoblade and DQXI felt bigger than FFXV even tho they liner game game? Because you visited different location, towns and cities.

Yeah that was XV's big issue, but i suspect that this was due to the long-term issues with development, rather than deliberate design. I mean even Insomnia went from being a big, playable environment at the announcement of XV to being a glorified ending setpiece for the ending of the final game, and that was pretty much entirely due to narrative changes.

If you mix XV's "open world" with FF7R sized city density then you've essentially got a modern, pseudo-open world FF game.

And that's pretty much what i'm expecting, considering FF7 is going to need to include pretty much the full range of what XV offered -- Offroad Cars, an airship, chocobos, and even marine vehicles.

 

[Jtibh]

The problem is in FFXV there are not many town and cities, Do you know why game like Xenoblade and DQXI felt bigger than FFXV even tho they liner game game? Because you visited different location, towns and cities.

I wouldn't call myself most skill player out there but I played on normal mode and I never died once, I actually enjoyed the combat system and I was very, very skeptical when the Remake first announced.

I didnt die as well. But had to restart due to what happened.
I played all from 7 and even platinumed ff15.

But this one here is a mess.
I cant see myself playing this and especialy not the way its sold to us.
Ff7 was great and what a blast it was once you are out of midgar. But here i have to wait how many years before i can start exploring?
Nah i wont put time and effort into a game thats unfinished.
Thats what netflix is for when you watch 3 seasons that ends in a cliffhanger only to tell you later the show has been cancelled.

 

[Dr. Claus]

You can't seriously tell the difference?

Yeah that's silly. BTW how many chocolate bars you gonna buy?

Zero. The "DLC" that Squeenix does like this (or any previous final fantasy release, spinoff or otherwise) tend to be worthless after the first few hours. Why waste my time buying shitty candy?

I am just saying that I like the game.

But, you are right, I am referencing forum wars.... Since that's what my point was..... if we are talking about the mass market..... well, FFXIII was success: 83 on metacritic, on launch it sold 1.7 million units on Ps3, the last data from S-E they said that the triology was a success selling more than 11 million units, yes Lightning Returns sold less.... but after you milk the same game 2 times.... and make a low budget third one.... well, it was expected.... still a good game in my book.

Yeah, I agree that some internet dwellers do complain about FFXIII.... But ehhh... The game is far from being a failure as the say so.

In every single collaboration that includes FF, there it is Lightning at the center, if XIII was a failure she wouldn't be there.

And, again, agree to disagree, you don't need to read a lot of files in XIII to get a grip about the story.... unless you are not paying attention. However, the files do expand the lore.

Anyway... this is getting too off-topic. Just my opinion.

No. Your point was making a bunch of claims as to why FFXIII "suffered" and I pointed out why you were wrong. No need to move goalposts. As for "every single callaboration that includes FF, there it is Lighting at the center" is blatantly false. A quick google search can show you the reality.

As for selling, easy to explain. Many people were excited for the first true next gen Final Fantasy release. There is a reason why the majority of the fan base do not look at the game fondly, even if you keep trying to claim otherwise.

 

[Jigsaah]

i dunno, I really lliked the demo. I do hope the level design opens up at some point. I was reading a different article about how the episodic nature of this game could be a good thing because when subsequent episodes are released on next gen and/or PC it will allow for easier implentation of a quality "over world", which is basically when you get to explore freely in the map using your chocobo or ship.

I surely hope that's the case. I was not able to complete FFXIII due to the narcolepsy inducing level design.

 

[LordKasual]

I am just saying that I like the game.

But, you are right, I am referencing forum wars.... Since that's what my point was..... if we are talking about the mass market..... well, FFXIII was success: 83 on metacritic, on launch it sold 1.7 million units on Ps3, the last data from S-E they said that the triology was a success selling more than 11 million units, yes Lightning Returns sold less.... but after you milk the same game 2 times.... and make a low budget third one.... well, it was expected.... still a good game in my book.

Well MGS5 got 10/10 reviews and it was barely even a complete videogame, so.....No, XIII's 83 metacritic score is due to it being the first highly hyped Final Fantasy entry on Next-Gen consoles. We were wayyyyy nicer to that game initially than we ever would have been if we weren't hot off the heels of entries like 10, 11, and 12.

XIII-2 by almost every metric of mine was a superior game to XIII and it scored far lower because the damage had already been done. The novelty of it being next-gen and Final Fantasy had worn off and people came into it with an already soured mouth.

Lightning Returns was just the last straw, it was low budget, pretty half-assed and even though it was a servicable enough videogame on its own merits, the complete batshit insane story and atrocious writing was just too much to stomach a third go around.


....that's my hottake on the XIII trilogy, anyway.

It might have been a financial success, but XIII almost single-handedly started the cascade of distrust and the sentiment that Final Fantasy had finally began to outstay its welcome....i mean XIV 1.0 helped but XIII was the real betrayal here because it was a mainline trilogy.

 

[Aion002]

Zero. The "DLC" that Squeenix does like this (or any previous final fantasy release, spinoff or otherwise) tend to be worthless after the first few hours. Why waste my time buying shitty candy?



No. Your point was making a bunch of claims as to why FFXIII "suffered" and I pointed out why you were wrong. No need to move goalposts. As for "every single callaboration that includes FF, there it is Lighting at the center" is blatantly false. A quick google search can show you the reality.

As for selling, easy to explain. Many people were excited for the first true next gen Final Fantasy release. There is a reason why the majority of the fan base do not look at the game fondly, even if you keep trying to claim otherwise.

Ok.

Well MGS5 got 10/10 reviews and it was barely even a complete videogame...

But MGSV is soooooo good. Amazing gameplay and it has such fun Pvp.

The story was horrible, but everything else was perfect.

I guess I just have bad taste.

 

[Danjin44]

Yeah that was XV's big issue, but i suspect that this was due to the long-term issues with development, rather than deliberate design. I mean even Insomnia went from being a big, playable environment at the announcement of XV to being a glorified ending setpiece for the ending of the final game, and that was pretty much entirely due to narrative changes.

If you mix XV's "open world" with FF7R sized city density then you've essentially got a modern, pseudo-open world FF game.

And that's pretty much what i'm expecting, considering FF7 is going to need to include pretty much the full range of what XV offered -- Offroad Cars, an airship, chocobos, and even marine vehicles.

And I think this is big reason they chose to make FFVIIRemake episodic, it give them time fully developed every part, this cost of making huge JRPG very very high production value.

 

[LordKasual]

But MGSV is soooooo good. Amazing gameplay and it has such fun Pvp.

The story was horrible, but everything else was perfect.

I guess I just have bad taste.

Fun to play.....but by any other metric than "Kojima's new MGS child", it was an incomplete game with some serious shortcomings. I mean I understand how people can love XIII. I thought the game was excellent, but again.....i was letting my anticipation drive my expectations and experiences. (I literally bought a PS3 the day XIII came out to play it)

But the moment i hit Oerba, the spot where the game "opened up" and i realized that i was actually at the end of the game and there really WAS nothing to do in the entire experience but run around and fight things.....the illusion was shattered and i could judge the game forreal.

And this I think reason they chose to make FFVIIRemake episodic, it give them time fully developed every part, this cost of making huge JRPG very very high production value.

And I can fully respect that decision, after experiencing what they've done with the merging of combat/exploration and expanded gameplay.

But I can't help but think that by choosing to go this route with FF7R....Square has once again chosen the same path that lead them down the FFXIII Fabulowhatever Crystashit Novalafuck Versus XIII path that eventually lead them to FFXV's woes.

Instead of trying to dump literally EVERYTHING into literally EVERYTHING...............learn how to successfully compromise and release a COMPLETED project that's worth more than the sum of its parts. YoshiP and the FFXIV team has done this FOUR TIMES IN A ROW with universal praise and success in the years since FFXV, KH3, and FF7R was announced....and the philosophy doesn't seem to have made it far past XIV.


I have no doubt that these games are going to be excellent....but Square was more than capable of actually releasing the full length adventure of FF7 if they had actually planned to do so, and i think everyone would have been more happy for it.

XV's problems stemmed from the fact that, from the beginning of the project, their eyes were WAAAAAAAAY bigger than their stomach, and the concept for the game they wanted to produce was literally beyond them. XIII wasn't much different.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

And I think this is big reason they chose to make FFVIIRemake episodic, it give them time fully developed every part, this cost of making huge JRPG very very high production value.

smol polish company can do what giant Japanese companies cannot

 

[MagnesG]

smol polish company can do what giant Japanese companies cannot

aka literally most of other AAA companies too. What's the point of comparison then.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

aka literally most of other AAA companies too. What's the point of comparison then.

I wasn't aware AAA companies were doing episodic games based off remasters. Or just the latter. Did I miss something?

 

[Danjin44]

smol polish company can do what giant Japanese companies cannot

I would say FFVII huge linear JRPG visiting different locations trough the game while Witcher 3 is open world and exploring that one open world.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

I would say FFVII huge linear JRPG visiting different locations trough the game while Witcher 3 is open world and exploring that one open world.

So that just makes the small polish studio better then?

 

[MagnesG]

I wasn't aware AAA companies were doing episodic games based off remasters. Or just the latter. Did I miss something?

Oh, my bad. But again if that's the case then what's so special about W3 that you rather single out CDPR studios rather than other AAA generic open world games, against the controversial SE?

After FFXV I'm still not convinced SE can even make a proper high profile open world game without it being suck, even FXII with their big intersected regions. I would rather them making another FFXIII if it means they can actually finish the development and package the whole thing nicely -even in parts, as each release is still equivalent to full game, well according to them at least, this whole thing can be a good experience for them to practice for a proper open world game in the future.

Thank god the combat isn't shit this time around.

 

[Danjin44]

So that just makes the small polish studio better then?

I dont know I myself not much fan of CD project games, especially when it comes to actual gameplay but my point was structure of Wither 3 is different than FFVII, I i don't think you can release open world in episodic.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Oh, my bad. But again if that's the case then what's so special about W3 that you rather single out CDPR studios rather than other AAA generic open world games, against the controversial SE?

After FFXV I'm still not convinced SE can even make a proper high profile open world game without it being suck, even FXII with their big intersected regions. I would rather them making another FFXIII if it means they can actually finish the development and package the whole thing nicely -even in parts, as each release is still equivalent to full game, well according to them at least, this whole thing can be a good experience for them to practice for a proper open world game in the future.

Thank god the combat isn't shit this time around.

...FFXIV exists you know.

 

[Danjin44]

@SLoWMoTIoN Here is my point in, Witcher 3 you have huge open world but I believe you are basically exploring one continent.

Spoiler

But in Final Fantasy VII you going thought different continents.

Spoiler

So sure the actual map of Witcher 3 is bigger but amount place you visit is bigger in FFVII.

 

[MagnesG]

...FFXIV exists you know.

FFXIV after reborn yes, and an ongoing live sevices MMO with that, any kind of company could make a good MMO if they have the time, a good source material and money, even the generic MMO template is pursued like usual, nothing groundbreaking (the subscription model is still shit btw). Though I think I didn't cross my points clearly.

What I meant is a nice packaged single player game for once or twice after a long time. IMO they did manage their priorities properly this time around! Only from the demo we got:

Combat checked.
Great and seamless cinematic checked.
Nice environment and graphics checked (even with the tight corridors and bad camera).
Steady performance and no noticeable bugs checked.

What more could you hope from SE? Even KH3 is a massive disappointment for a lot of people, even for casuals.

 

[EDMIX]

Openworlds and OVERWORLDS aren't the same thing. They're just hubs to get you to the next town. Sure, you can go freely and explore and do certain missions in them, so in that sense, they are similar. But, I wouldn't call it an open world.

Nah, they are open world regardless. Having a hub or over world doesn't change that they are open world titles. That like saying cause Mario Kart doesn't have feature from Forza that its not a racing game, the reality is....they might be different racers, but they are racing games none the less. So easy example. Outer Worlds might not be as large as Fallout......they are BOTH STILL OPEN WORLD GAMES. A game being smaller then the other doesn't suddenly change what it is.

FFVII limitations in regards to technicality, doesn't change what they are aiming for. Clearly they wanted fucking towns, vehicles and space to move. Showing the damn picture of the town as an icon before going to a loading screen to load up the town doesn't actually change the concept of what they are aiming for.

You telling me someone is dying cause now they go to the town in real time with zero loading and no mini icon?

So I see it as splitting hairs. What you are seeing them make is a more seamless open world compared to what they could do originally, but you are still seeing a open world with vehicles and towns.

I don't recall some magically bullet point on a game being good being based on a loading screen and seeing an icon of a town on some map bud. Its a deep exaggeration and an attempt to literally ignore the original title is open world. They have zero reason to suddenly put the fucking picture or icon of a town and then have a loading screen.

Would it suddenly help you if you go to a town in the FFVII remake or even FFXV and just at the gate of the town, wait for 1 minute and stare at a picture?

Would that make it better orrrrr??? Sooooo can we stop pretending the technical limitation was some intended design feature by choice please? They did what they could with the hardware given.

So...if it helps, look at this for about 1 minute before going in to towns in the remake and you have your "overworld" feels...

LordKasual Agreed. They are not trying to hear those facts though. As someone that played the entire FF series, Bravely Default etc, I have no clue why people fail to realize that FFXV being open world literally is the old concept of FF and many JRPGs.

Did they forget how many FF titles give you a vehicle and you go from town to town? WTF did they think that was going to look like in 2020? Those that even think FF is mainly linear only show how little they might have even played the series. LOTS of FF titles are in fact very open world, being in sprite format doesn't fucking change that the title is open world folks, I have no clue that that seems to go over people's heads.

What did they think you'd be traveling in the remake? So you have to question how many here EVEN FUCKING PLAYED FFVII FOR REAL!

Danjin44 "The problem is in FFXV there are not many town and cities" Ok...that is an issue with FFXV, FFVII remake is not FFXV..... soooo that has nothing to do with open world games, that has to do with FFXV..soooo that isn't actually an argument against it being open world, thats an argument for it NOT to have less towns and cities like FFXV, but clearly FFVII has more towns then FFXV...

 

[LordKasual]

FFXIV after reborn yes, and an ongoing live sevices MMO with that, any kind of company could make a good MMO if they have the time, a good source material and money, even the generic MMO template is pursued like usual, nothing groundbreaking (the subscription model is still shit btw). Though I think I didn't cross my points clearly.

What I meant is a nice packaged single player game for once or twice after a long time. IMO they did manage their priorities properly this time around! Only from the demo we got:

Combat checked.
Great and seamless cinematic checked.
Nice environment and graphics checked (even with the tight corridors and bad camera).
Steady performance and no noticeable bugs checked.

What more could you hope from SE? Even KH3 is a massive disappointment for a lot of people, even for casuals.

That first bolded sentence is false, clearly. Honestly i don't think there's a single MMO other than WoW that even begins to approach FFXIV in quality.

And the subscription model is IDEAL imo......it just requires a company with integrity. FFXIV's updates are actually chocked full of UNIQUE content and the game expands on more fronts inbetween patches than just dungeons to run. And the most funny thing about XIV is that it's also the only modern FF game to actually provide a full-length, single package Final Fantasy experience with its expansions.

And KH3 was more than a disappointment, it was very nearly just a bad game.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Overworld / open world.
It is something i am looking forward to in FFR part 2 i guess..
If part 1 is really super linear i am not sure i want in.

i think overworlds are a vital part in JRPGS for me.
DQ11
NI NO KUNI
most snes jrpg's

a JRPG without an overworld that I can navigate freely is a no go for me.

I think the difference is that in Open world there is no cuts when you get into cities or dungeons/caves, and/or battles... So it's mostly technical for the old games.

Maybe someone has a more suitable definition.

 

[MagnesG]

That first bolded sentence is false, clearly. Honestly i don't think there's a single MMO other than WoW that even begins to approach FFXIV in quality.

And the subscription model is IDEAL imo......it just requires a company with integrity. FFXIV's updates are actually chocked full of UNIQUE content and the game expands on more fronts inbetween patches than just dungeons to run. And the most funny thing about XIV is that it's also the only modern FF game to actually provide a full-length, single package Final Fantasy experience with its expansions.

And KH3 was more than a disappointment, it was very nearly just a bad game.

I still stand by my original statement. FF is a strong brand with long standing history and materials. SE can't fuck things up again when FF brand is at stake. So they took their time, and they had the money.

Also, perhaps people some could accept the subscription model, even happily and willingly paying for it, maybe I'll be one of them too if I'm one of the founders...

The monthly price is still egregious though, at least from the newcomers' perspective. The boring busywork from the early levels can't help much either.

 

[Bryank75]

 

[Thabass]

Nah, they are open world regardless. Having a hub or over world doesn't change that they are open world titles. That like saying cause Mario Kart doesn't have feature from Forza that its not a racing game, the reality is....they might be different racers, but they are racing games none the less. So easy example. Outer Worlds might not be as large as Fallout......they are BOTH STILL OPEN WORLD GAMES. A game being smaller then the other doesn't suddenly change what it is.

FFVII limitations in regards to technicality, doesn't change what they are aiming for. Clearly they wanted fucking towns, vehicles and space to move. Showing the damn picture of the town as an icon before going to a loading screen to load up the town doesn't actually change the concept of what they are aiming for.

You telling me someone is dying cause now they go to the town in real time with zero loading and no mini icon?

So I see it as splitting hairs. What you are seeing them make is a more seamless open world compared to what they could do originally, but you are still seeing a open world with vehicles and towns.

I don't recall some magically bullet point on a game being good being based on a loading screen and seeing an icon of a town on some map bud. Its a deep exaggeration and an attempt to literally ignore the original title is open world. They have zero reason to suddenly put the fucking picture or icon of a town and then have a loading screen.

Would it suddenly help you if you go to a town in the FFVII remake or even FFXV and just at the gate of the town, wait for 1 minute and stare at a picture?

Would that make it better orrrrr??? Sooooo can we stop pretending the technical limitation was some intended design feature by choice please? They did what they could with the hardware given.

So...if it helps, look at this for about 1 minute before going in to towns in the remake and you have your "overworld" feels...

Yeah, I guess that's true. I'm not dying for the overworld / open world argument honestly. I always just saw them differently and used for different purpose. Whereas overworld was more of a hub, openworld is more of a gameplay element. You can use open worlds as a way to strategize where you want to go next or what route to take to the next area and then setup ambushes in things like that.

As I said, I'm not gonna die on the cross for definition on openworld, it was more me seeing them differently in terms of gameplay. What you said makes perfect sense and I have no reason to refute it.

 

[KàIRóS]

I think the difference is that in Open world there is no cuts when you get into cities or dungeons/caves, and/or battles... So it's mostly technical for the old games.

Maybe someone has a more suitable definition.

Oh boy this is going to be a long post, but hopefully it will help people understand what "open world games" really are.

The thing is, "Open World" is a very broad term, it contains aspects of gameplay, level design, progression and storytelling in those two words. When I'm talking about "open world games" with other colleagues (I work in game design) we prefer to outright name the game that is in our heads rather than just say "open world" it's just not practical one of us could be thinking about GTA and others could be thinking about Skyrim or Minecraft and let me tell you those games have vastly different types of open worlds.

But basically the most distinctive features of an open world game is 1. it has a really big game world and 2. it has a lot of freedom when it comes to exploring that game world, a 3rd important aspect would be "player agency" but that's kinda technical so if anyone is interested go check it out on google, most people however only apply the first feature when they talk about "open world" games and ignore the second one and third one, this is when the confusion comes in.

Now to keep this in JRPG territory, I've seen people calling Xenoblade Chronicles 1 & 2 Open World games well let me inform all of you who think that, they are not, however Xenoblade Chronicles X is indeed an Open World game, the difference is that in XC 1 & 2 the different areas you explore are limited by the player's progression in the story unlike in XCX in which you can explore the whole world from the start, yes you're not supposed to visit the other continents until you get your first Skell (the mechas) and you will likely get killed, but you can still swim all the way there if you want to, so does that make XC 1 & 2 linear games? of course not, those types of games are called open-ended or simply nonlinear because you can still go out of the way intended by the developers to do other things,

Going back to Final Fantasy, all FFs are technically open ended games even FFXV which I also see a lot of people calling an open world game, it's not, different locations open up as you progress, you can't go there from the start, and yes even FFX and FFXIII are open ended games BUT due to how the level design was made in X & XIII it lead people to calling them linear games because usually when you finish an area in those games, you can't go back to that same area until much later, something that didn't happen in others FFs because they had overworlds which allowed players to go back to areas even if there was nothing to do in those areas, it still added more freedom of exploration and that may also be the confusion on why some people think that that's what made them "open world" but as you can see "open world" is very misused by gamers who don't fully understand that there are in fact very few "open world" games which is fine I mean I know what the term means because I studied game design but otherwise I probably wouldn't understand it myself either.

so basically:

Linear game = little or no exploration at all.
Nonlinear/Open Ended game = some exploration outside of the main path.
Open World = a lot of exploration, literally the game is about exploration and going out of the intended way.

 

[ULTROS!]

I think the issue with FFXII, FFXIII, and FFXV was that they were too ambitious in paper, especially FFXV and they had a hard time executing it. No way can they make a fully fleshed out story with FFXV’s scope and limitations, it would be overly expensive and long for game standards (imagine fleshing out Insomnia, Lucis, Altissia, Niflheim, Gralea, future Lucis, and future Insomnia. FFXII felt rushed after you left Dalmasca, and FFXIII was basically a glorified wallpaper for a good first half of the game providing an illusion that the world is big (but failed).

Personally it doesn’t matter if it’s linear or open world, as long as it’s fleshed out it’s okay. FFX was fleshed out even if some people like to trash it. even the other open world games like Horizon Zero Dawn were fleshed out. It’s all about the ambition.

It would have been better if SE started with a small scope and just expanded from there. I think focusing on just Midgar and possibly Kalm Town might benefit more than doing all areas at once, who knows we’ll see!

 

[Dr. Claus]

That first bolded sentence is false, clearly. Honestly i don't think there's a single MMO other than WoW that even begins to approach FFXIV in quality.

And the subscription model is IDEAL imo......it just requires a company with integrity. FFXIV's updates are actually chocked full of UNIQUE content and the game expands on more fronts inbetween patches than just dungeons to run. And the most funny thing about XIV is that it's also the only modern FF game to actually provide a full-length, single package Final Fantasy experience with its expansions.

And KH3 was more than a disappointment, it was very nearly just a bad game.

Agreed with everything except the last sentence. MMOs are incredibly difficult to get right, even if you have all the time and talented develoeprs in the world, you can still fail. We have nearly 100+ MMOs releasing since WOW that shows this.

The subscription model is also the only worth while model in MMOs. Without it, you end up with low quality "updates" that are mostly reasons to give the player to spend money. ESO, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2, BDO, etc. Large scale updates are few and far between. Now compare that to FFXIV. Its latest update just came out and added a new raid tier, a new trial, new story quests, new beast tribe with a unique spin (gathering only) and its own storyline, fishing boat excursions, QoL updates such as new fishing notifications, a bunch of new items to craft/gather, and more. That is a *free* update with 3 more updates guaranteed to come out before the next expansion and smaller "mini-updates" inbetween.

 

[GymWolf]

And I think this is big reason they chose to make FFVIIRemake episodic, it give them time fully developed every part, this cost of making huge JRPG very very high production value.

Nah, modern games like witcher 3 or ac odissey or any other modern open world are far far FAR more bigger and full of stuff and text than ff7 ever was and they can't re-use plot, characters, setting etc. Like in a damn remake, and they still comes out as a complete game.

This game being episodic is nothing but a greedy move and we all know this in the bottom of our heart.

The padding to make the game bigger and longer is gonna be some shitty tier stuff like we saw with sidequest and story in ff15 most probably, it's not gonna be quality writing material...

A lot of people on forums already hate the changes in barret character that now sound annoying and caricatural as fuck, even more than the original game, this is modern square, not top tier ps1 epoch squaresoft.

Happy to be disproved because i love ff7 to death.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Nah, modern games like witcher 3 or ac odissey or any other modern open world are far far FAR more bigger and full of stuff and text than ff7 ever was and they can't re-use plot, characters, setting etc. Like in a damn remake, and they still comes out as a complete game.

This game being episodic is nothing but a greedy move and we all know this in the bottom of our heart.

The padding to make the game bigger and longer is gonna be some shitty tier stuff like we saw with sidequest and story in ff15 most probably, it's not gonna be quality writing material...

A lot of people on forums already hate the changes in barret character that now sound annoying and caricatural as fuck, even more than the original game, this is modern square, not top tier ps1 epoch squaresoft.

Happy to be disproved because i love ff7 to death.

...the fuck? The vast majority of AC Odd. are copy pasted content spread over a world that is overly large, poorly designed, and with some of the most mind numbingly meaningless "quests" available. All coupled with pushing the user to buy MTX to make the game tolerable in terms of pacing.

Nothing stated or shown is that this is a "greedy" move. Sounds more like you just want a reason to bitch about the game. "A lot of people hate the changes in barret character..." got evidence of this? Or are you basing it off of a vocal minority in places like Era?

 

[GymWolf]

...the fuck? The vast majority of AC Odd. are copy pasted content spread over a world that is overly large, poorly designed, and with some of the most mind numbingly meaningless "quests" available. All coupled with pushing the user to buy MTX to make the game tolerable in terms of pacing.

Nothing stated or shown is that this is a "greedy" move. Sounds more like you just want a reason to bitch about the game. "A lot of people hate the changes in barret character..." got evidence of this? Or are you basing it off of a vocal minority in places like Era?

i was not saying that ac odiseey is a good game, only that he is a gigantic games with lots of contenents and they don't need to break the game in 3 parts, even if sidequest are shitty, devs still has to write this stuff down, it doens't create by himself, it's still a looooot of text and stuff to do, they can't copy the plot, character, enemies etc like square is doing for a remake.
you don't like odissey example? origins is almost all new assets (you know, egypt location) and it's still a gigantic game.
you don't like AC example at all? pick almost every open world of this gen, my point doesn't change. (you smartly ignored my witcher 3 example)

also, do you know what type of padding we are gonna have in ff7 remake? i don't but looking at square last big project (ff15) we already have a hint of what the contenent quality is gonna be in ff7R, you know it's the same people doing the remake, not another squaresoft from another dimension...
you on the other hand are already sure that is gonna be better in quality compared with ac but we don't really know this, nor you not me, at this point is just my pessimism against your wishfull thinking.

about barret, i still have to play most of the demo so i can only talk about what i read on forums, reddit etc.
but again, last squaresoft game i played was ff15 and that game is trash in almost all his parts, characters included except maybe 1 or 2, not really a trustworthy piece of software
i haven't played FF14 yet, i give you that.

i bitch about the game because i love ff7 and i want the best for the remake and i never digested this episodic bullshit.

 

[Dr. Claus]

i was not saying that ac odiseey is a good game, only that he is a gigantic games with lots of contenents and they don't need to break the game in 3 parts, even if sidequest are shitty, devs still has to write this stuff down, it doens't create by himself, it's still a looooot of text and stuff to do, they cna't copy the plot, character, enemies etc like square is doing for a remake.
you don't like odissey example? origins is almost all new assets (you know egypt location) and it's still a gigantic game.
you don't like AC example at all? pick almost every open world of this gen, my point doesn't change.

Except you would be wrong. They did copy and paste the same enemies, the same buildings, the same "quests". It was padding, blatant and simple. And as much as I did enjoy AC Origins, it was also blatantly filled with padding. All AC games were. It is what created the "Ubisoft Open World" template FFS. Now for other open worlds? Watch_Dogs? Grand Theft Auto? Witcher 3? Also filled with padding and copy/pasted shit.

FF7R is just copy pasting its story/character/plot? Again, proven wrong by numerous interviews, journalist demos, and you can see it yourself in the trailers which show new areas, characters, and content that was not available in the original release. Your point is wrong, mate.

also, do you know what type of padding we are gonna have in ff7 remake? i don't but looking at square last big project (ff15) we already have a hint of what the contenent quality is gonna be in ff7R, you know it's the same people doing the remake, not another squaresoft from another dimension...
you on the other hand are already sure that is gonna be better in quality compared with ac but we don't really know this, nor you not me, at this point is just my pessimism against your wishfull thinking.

Different teams. You do realize the same team behind FF15 is not the same team behind FF7R, right? There are numerous teams within Square Enix. Also much of FF15's open world was just doing what everyone else is doing. Also don't put words in my mouth. I never stated it was going to be quality, so please work on your reading comprehension. I just stated nothing shown suggests this to be a greedy move, unlike you who makes baseless accusations like you 100% know (which you don't, you even admit such here).

about barret, i still have to play the demo most of the demo so i can only talk about what i read on forums, reddit etc.
but again, last squaresoft game i played was ff15 and that game is trash in almost all his parts, characters included except maybe 1 or 2, not really a trustworthy piece of software

i bitch about the game because i love ff7 and i want the best for the remake and i never digested this episodic bullshit.

So you have nothing. Just handwave it as general claims without providing any evidence. Do better.

 

[Danjin44]

...the fuck? The vast majority of AC Odd. are copy pasted content spread over a world that is overly large, poorly designed, and with some of the most mind numbingly meaningless "quests" available. All coupled with pushing the user to buy MTX to make the game tolerable in terms of pacing.

I agree with you, to me its much, much harder to make game in scale of FFVII with high production compare to just make open world. this why you see Ubisoft and most AAA western devs making open world instead of making linear game with proper level design.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I agree with you, to me its much, much harder to make game in scale of FFVII with high production compare to just make open world. this why you see Ubisoft and most AAA western devs making open world instead of making linear game with proper level design.

One of the reasons why I am just done buying Ubisoft games unless they do something unique/different. Tired of the same template used over everything. May also be why I have fallen in love with Yakuza. Smaller world, but filled with stuff to do that feels natural. Not like padding.

 

[GymWolf]

Except you would be wrong. They did copy and paste the same enemies, the same buildings, the same "quests". It was padding, blatant and simple. And as much as I did enjoy AC Origins, it was also blatantly filled with padding. All AC games were. It is what created the "Ubisoft Open World" template FFS. Now for other open worlds? Watch_Dogs? Grand Theft Auto? Witcher 3? Also filled with padding and copy/pasted shit.

FF7R is just copy pasting its story/character/plot? Again, proven wrong by numerous interviews, journalist demos, and you can see it yourself in the trailers which show new areas, characters, and content that was not available in the original release. Your point is wrong, mate.



Different teams. You do realize the same team behind FF15 is not the same team behind FF7R, right? There are numerous teams within Square Enix. Also much of FF15's open world was just doing what everyone else is doing. Also don't put words in my mouth. I never stated it was going to be quality, so please work on your reading comprehension. I just stated nothing shown suggests this to be a greedy move, unlike you who makes baseless accusations like you 100% know (which you don't, you even admit such here).



So you have nothing. Just handwave it as general claims without providing any evidence. Do better.

i hope your are right mate, i remain with my pessimism until i can play the final game (or at least 20% of it), because don't get me wrong, i'm gonna be with you on day one with my deluxe\speciall edition of this game.
we are gonna see how much quality there is gonna be in the padding necessary to break a 40 hours game in 3 parts.

 

[manfestival]

Ironically the worst part of FF13 was chapter 11 I believe. That was like the big open world moment and it felt like such a drag. I am playing FF15 and that feels like such a drag. I also play ff14 but I find it unfair to compare a MMO with a regular rpg.

Anyways, I loved this demo. I am not crazy about the combat system. It feels super hectic during some of the later fights of the demo. Game feels like it is better off being a brawler or a third person action game over having the rpg elements. Keep in mind that I was blown away by the demo and instantly sold.

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

Pretty much what Square did with Kingdom's Hearts 3. At least FFXII REMAKE plays much better and is more fun. KH3 gameplay and level design are terrible

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

@SLoWMoTIoN Here is my point in, Witcher 3 you have huge open world but I believe you are basically exploring one continent.

Spoiler

But in Final Fantasy VII you going thought different continents.

Spoiler

So sure the actual map of Witcher 3 is bigger but amount place you visit is bigger in FFVII.

You are exploring a overworld only certain cities/dungeons can be actually explored. Also as time goes (or episodes now) you aren't able to revisit said areas. I mean the last FF game was huge and that wasn't that cut up ..er well that has more to do how Square manages their devs but still!

Oh, my bad. But again if that's the case then what's so special about W3 that you rather single out CDPR studios rather than other AAA generic open world games, against the controversial SE?

I'm not singling out the new small polish studio, I'm using them as an example of how a complete, thought out game is possible. We have users here that are giving Square a pass for their episodic crap, claiming it is because of the size of the world or quality which is why I mentioned red. This could have been a single game like the original. But they just want to make the most of it because you know money. Also because get this, people will still buy it.