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[Amir0x]

I really don't think they will feel constrained at all by going with such a small historical deviancy.

They will just put him up north.

I mean, if they just stop supplanting everyone like that they may feel the temptation to really destroy history which I'm hoping they don't. I agree with you it'd make a good character though...

Well, in my opinion this is different. How many contemporary citizens of Italy feel much connection to Italian princes and nobility of the Middle Ages?

I'm not an American, however I always assumed they feel strongly about their history, esp. Revolutionary War, when US became a country. Founding Fathers were essential in that. Now you have a game portraying some of them as Templars, who in reality want to control the world?

As for Indian village - violence and cruelty towards Native Americans is well-documented. Isn't there even Native American month in the US (I know February is Black Culture month)?

We do feel strongly about the Revolutionary War period, and it does inspire feelings of patriotic pride in Americans, but there have been conspiracy theories about the true intentions of the founding fathers for centuries and nobody has really cried too much. Since this is a conspiracy theory game, taking some license with their positive/negative motivations is not too out of order.

by the by, the flaws of our Founding Fathers are well documented too, some people just don't like hearing it

Was there a prominent double crosser in the Americans' side during the war?

You mean like Benedict Arnold?

 

[rukland]

So pumped for this time line, it's one of my favorite parts of American history. I am not worried too much about how they will handle it as it is after all a fictional game.

I am just hoping it brings a younger generation to care about history a little more, you know enough to read a book and not just take for granted what the game is telling them.

 

[Glix]

One of my favorite autobiographies about a founding father is Benjamin Franklin: An American Life by Walter Isaacson. It paints the truth behind the myth and allows you to understand the multifaceted (and sometimes contradictory) nature of our founding fathers. Benjamin Franklin's own biography, by the way, written by himself throughout his life, is also still startlingly relevant and considered a groundbreaking moment in biographical history all by itself... so if you really get deep, hit it up.

Dudes... This book is freaking AMAZING.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Am I the only one hoping for an appearance by James Otis?

For AR books check out Patriots by AJ Langguth, great read for those wanting a nice overview from 1763 with the Writs of Assitance all the way to Yorktown.

There is an extended preview on Google Books
http://books.google.com/books/about/Patriots.html?id=ePqHm33zZEsC

Give it a read to learn of about State pastime of Boston in the 1760s, rioting and burning down the Govenors property!

 

[rdrr gnr]

I have very little hope that who I want in the game is actually going to be in the game. I'm excited nonetheless.

 

[Amir0x]

Dudes... This book is freaking AMAZING.

thumbs up. I've read it three times and each time I notice something new. It's great to have a better, less blurry image of the founding fathers instead of what we commonly get in pop culture.

I have very little hope that who I want in the game is actually going to be in the game. I'm excited nonetheless.

Who would you like in the game?

So pumped for this time line, it's one of my favorite parts of American history. I am not worried too much about how they will handle it as it is after all a fictional game.

I am just hoping it brings a younger generation to care about history a little more, you know enough to read a book and not just take for granted what the game is telling them.

I love Civil War history and Revolutionary War history, there is some basic allure that is undoubtedly influenced by my being born here. Although it's a little odd considering my family is the least patriotic family I can think of, they don't vote, never participate in anything related to government, would refuse to fight in any way, and dismiss patriotic history lessons.

It'd be nice if this inspired a younger generation to pick up some Revolutionary War books.

What will really happen: They will rent National Treasure and The Patriot

 

[Amagon]

Great thread Amir0x!

 

[rukland]

It'd be nice if this inspired a younger generation to pick up some Revolutionary War books.

What will really happen: They will rent National Treasure and The Patriot

Man I hope not, but I fear that you are right. I had read most of the books on your list but already ordered the ones I had not from Amazon. If nothing else this thread has been a great wake up for me on why I love history so much.

 

[Snkfanatic]

This game...man oh man this game. I want it so bad

 

[Dunan]

Isn't there even Native American month in the US (I know February is Black Culture month)?

For those of us from the northeast, Native American culture is probably celebrated not with a month, but with Thanksgiving Day. Back in 1621, the Pilgrims had lost half their people in the preceding harsh winter that preceded it, and the colony was in serious danger of dying completely. They celebrated a good harvest with a friendly local tribe, the Wampanoag (many of whom also died due to illnesses carried by the Pilgrims).

http://www.pilgrimhall.org/f_thanks.htm

It wasn't until Abraham Lincoln's presidency (1861-65) that this event became recognized as a regular holiday.

I imagine that people from other parts of the country, where relations with the locals weren't quite as friendly, don't learn as much about this event. But as a kid in the northeast, the Thanksgiving season was when we learned about "American Indian" culture.

 

[FrontalMonk]

Personally I really want to see something involving the ride to Lexington and Concord, with Paul Revere getting arrested before he could warn anyone, and then getting all the credit for it

 

[xptoxyz]

One of my favorite autobiographies about a founding father is Benjamin Franklin: An American Life by Walter Isaacson.

Wait so it's written by Benjamin Franklin and just edited by Isaacson? Or did you mean just biography?

Actually been curious about it for a while, people here saying it's good makes me want to order it now.

 

[Sonicbug]

For those of us from the northeast, Native American culture is probably celebrated not with a month, but with Thanksgiving Day. Back in 1621, the Pilgrims had lost half their people in the preceding harsh winter that preceded it, and the colony was in serious danger of dying completely. They celebrated a good harvest with a friendly local tribe, the Wampanoag (many of whom also died due to illnesses carried by the Pilgrims).
*snip* But as a kid in the northeast, the Thanksgiving season was when we learned about "American Indian" culture.

Died prior to the Pilgrims landing, from an epidemic. When the 'pilgrims' arrived at 'Plymouth' they found an abandoned village. Very depressing. Almost the entire rest of the Wampanoag were killed/sold into slavery 50 years later after the founders of both groups were dead and peace treaties broke down. Also very depressing. Moving on...

The whole revolutionary war time frame is really interesting on a local level. You had whole towns divided on Loyalist verses Patriot lines. Tavern brawls must have been breaking out all the time.

 

[rukland]

A great overview of one of the most important years in the Revolution, when it was a very real chance that the Americans would lose (I won't reveal how close we were to being annihilated, as it is pretty shocking), is the book 1776 by David G. McCullough.

Started reading this book last night, McCullough's writing is so easy to read. If I had not needed to get some sleep last night I would have gotten much deeper into it. Thanks for the suggestion so far it's really good and it does really serve as a great overview. I would recommend this to anyone who is either new to the subject or just needs a nice refresher.

Thanks so much for making this thread Amir0x.

 

[mclem]

A point about American Revolution history *in the Assassin's Creed universe* (includes mention of something revealed in AC2, but it's something people may have missed. Could well be a *real* spoiler for AC3, but it was alluded to back then):

Spoiler

Subject 16 covers some parts of this era in his puzzles.

He makes a claim that George Washington owned a Piece of Eden.

Unless they retcon it - which they may have already done, I've not moved on to Revelations yet - I very much expect this to be a plot point.

 

[frankie_baby]

One of the reasons the Colonists were miffed with the British government was that they had been told not to expand westwards, in order to avoid potential further conflict with the Native Americans.

Exactly, i've always been under the british government generally treated the indians far better than the settletsand later the american goverment ever did

 

[frankie_baby]

I know many people on another board who are about to raise hell. They'll be enraged if the Americans aren't presented as the good guy heroes and the British as evil.

To be honest i dont see it as a wise move to set the game in a war between the 2 biggest markets for the game

 

[twobear]

To be honest i dont see it as a wise move to set the game in a war between the 2 biggest markets for the game

it wont matter because the revolutionary war is barely a blip on the british national psyche's radar

and that's even assuming that the game will be heavily invested in one or other of the belligerents

 

[Crazymoogle]

Unless they retcon it - which they may have already done, I've not moved on to Revelations yet - I very much expect this to be a plot point.

A variety of non-templars

Spoiler

- such as Napoleon - hold the Apples

in the AC universe, so it's not surprising. But yes, that's still the case.

 

[Sickboy007]

Wouldn't Lafayette be a great pick? His later role in the French revolution would be a great way to show the differences and excesses of the Jacobins if they ever do a sequel in France.

 

[mclem]

To be honest i dont see it as a wise move to set the game in a war between the 2 biggest markets for the game

While that might be the *setting*, in the previous instance where an AC game was set during a war period, it was very even-handed and didn't present either side as being 'the good guys'. I'm expecting the same this time around.

 

[Mattdaddy]

I recognize all those names, but not from my education. I recognize them all from playing the best game ever, "Liberty or Death!"

- I think the hanging of Nathan Hale could be worked in nicely somehow.

 

[El_Chino]

Great thread man! Well done. I'm a history buff myself and it would interesting to see how this will coincide with AC3.

 

[Dr Zhivago]

it wont matter because the revolutionary war is barely a blip on the british national psyche's radar

and that's even assuming that the game will be heavily invested in one or other of the belligerents

I don't recall much fuss over The Patriot here, and AC3 sounds like it won't be anywhere near as bad.

 

[rdrr gnr]

Thomas Paine, Amir0x. More people need to know who he is and what he did.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Exactly, i've always been under the british government generally treated the indians far better than the settletsand later the american goverment ever did

Though not as well as the French.

That said it's nice to discuss The Proclamation of 1763 on a video game forum.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Heh, a neat side mission would be to join John Paul Jones in his attempt to burn down Whitehaven.

 

[Amir0x]

Wait so it's written by Benjamin Franklin and just edited by Isaacson? Or did you mean just biography?

Actually been curious about it for a while, people here saying it's good makes me want to order it now.

The Isaacson one is a biography, not autobiography... slip of the tongue. Although he references Franklin's actual autobiography frequently, and Ben's autobiography is totally worth reading on its own. He's amazingly engaging to read even today, and humorous.

Started reading this book last night, McCullough's writing is so easy to read. If I had not needed to get some sleep last night I would have gotten much deeper into it. Thanks for the suggestion so far it's really good and it does really serve as a great overview. I would recommend this to anyone who is either new to the subject or just needs a nice refresher.

Thanks so much for making this thread Amir0x.

I'm glad to hear you like it! McCullough's books are almost all fantastic, and he does some great research and referencing. So if you really dig that author, there's a ton of other books by him that might spark your fancy. One of my favorites, and he's pretty popular in general.

Also happy people like this topic. Revolutionary War is a passion of mine and I'm really super excited to see a game set in the period.

A point about American Revolution history *in the Assassin's Creed universe* (includes mention of something revealed in AC2, but it's something people may have missed. Could well be a *real* spoiler for AC3, but it was alluded to back then):

Spoiler

Subject 16 covers some parts of this era in his puzzles.

He makes a claim that George Washington owned a Piece of Eden.

Unless they retcon it - which they may have already done, I've not moved on to Revelations yet - I very much expect this to be a plot point.

Yup, I referenced it in this post earlier in this topic.

It's hard to believe they'd retcon that, seeing as how obvious it would be that Washington get that.

Wouldn't Lafayette be a great pick? His later role in the French revolution would be a great way to show the differences and excesses of the Jacobins if they ever do a sequel in France.

Oh yeah! Lafayette is a great choice. He's even regionally appropriate to the game's areas. I should do a write up on him for this topic.

Great thread man! Well done. I'm a history buff myself and it would interesting to see how this will coincide with AC3.

Yup, i'm just rushing through my head with ways different historical events can be applied to this game. It's a huge period of time to work with. I may be suspect about how AC's city based climbing gameplay will work in the American wilderness and with the lesser cities of Boston and New York, but I am totally engaged in the setting itself.

Thomas Paine, Amir0x. More people need to know who he is and what he did.

I mentioned him in my post. I could expand on his spot, but I was just grasping for ideas of missions Connor might encounter him on. Any ideas?

 

[Riposte]

I want me some Lafayette

 

[bearythebear]

This may sound completely stupid, but did the "American Accent" exist during that time or will everyone speak with a British Accent?

 

[Amir0x]

This may sound completely stupid, but did the "American Accent" exist during that time or will everyone speak with a British Accent?

I learned very recently (like, within the past week, thanks to a friend) that American accents resemble circa-1600s British accents. Our accent has remained the same throughout American history... British accents have evolved to what they are now.

The More You Know™

 

[eagle884]

Interesting! That's what I meant when I wondered what the voice actors would sound like. Good to know!

 

[Htown]

I learned very recently (like, within the past week, thanks to a friend) that American accents resemble circa-1600s British accents. Our accent has remained the same throughout American history... British accents have evolved to what they are now.

The More You Know™

Whoa, really?

 

[PrinceOfApathy]

How could the natives be Naive? If someone came into your home this very moment and smashed your shit, took a dump in the toilet without flushing and said everything in this bitch is now mine, how would you feel? The Natives were damned if they did or damned if they didn't. The British lost and later down the years they were still almost wiped out, culled and driven into sectors. Come on, you'd fight with anyone that would promise you your home back. It was all down to white supremacist mindsets anyway, they never had a chance in hell.

 

[speedpop]

Great thread idea. Over the past year or so I've been thrust straight in to the American Revolution War and coupled with the fact that I have not played an Assassin's Creed game (outside of the first entry for an hour or so), I am slightly excited about the prospect of this if done right.

 

[Forkball]

Two inclusions I think will make it in: Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben and Lafayette. Though from German and France respectively, they were famous generals of the Continental Army. Steuben trained the soldiers at Valley Forge and was Washington's chief of staff, while Lafayette led the French soldiers in the war. You gotta believe Ubisoft will shove a French guy in there somewhere!

 

[Arment]

I learned very recently (like, within the past week, thanks to a friend) that American accents resemble circa-1600s British accents. Our accent has remained the same throughout American history... British accents have evolved to what they are now.

The More You Know™

Probably the most interesting thing I've learned all year. You really mean accents? Or the language itself?

 

[twobear]

Heh, a neat side mission would be to join John Paul Jones in his attempt to burn down Whitehaven.

a mission that you can't but fail? sounds a bit dull.

I learned very recently (like, within the past week, thanks to a friend) that American accents resemble circa-1600s British accents. Our accent has remained the same throughout American history... British accents have evolved to what they are now.

The More You Know™

i've heard that it's not the accent per se, but rather, the fact that most british english accents used to be rhotic, but now most aren't, but american english generally still is

but there's a difference between rhoticity and accent. people in the west country have a rhotic accent, but they don't sound american because of it.

 

[Sickboy007]

I love this series about the English language.

 

[Squidofman]

Bless you for making this thread.

Strangely most interested to see how they handle the Germans in British service.

 

[twobear]

apparently horatio nelson had a very strong norfolk accent, which rather kills the romanticism of the legend

 

[rdrr gnr]

I mentioned him in my post. I could expand on his spot, but I was just grasping for ideas of missions Connor might encounter him on. Any ideas?

I was thinking about this last night and I'd say it depends on how much one is willing to smudge the dates exactly. Like Franklin, Paine spent significant time in France. He was there as a representative of the US for a while, as well as a prisoner for sometime in Paris. In fact, he felt as though

Spoiler

Washington betrayed him

, as there was no concerted effort by the US to have him freed. Meaning, Paine may play well into however the Templar/Assassin divide falls post-Revolution. At his core, Paine was most definitely a man of the people -- a lowly pamphleteer. I could see Connor running into him on the streets once a chapter; have it be a bit of an episodic storyline. We get to see how important Paine was in rallying the people (maybe Connor is convinced into fighting the British because of him) against their enemies. This passive relationship would continue until Paine's death, which would lead into one of the more emotional scenes of the game. Connor would be one the few people to attend Paine's funeral (in line with the history) and honor him in some memorable way i.e., Paine may have been forgotten amongst the people but not amongst the Assassins. And since Paine was without question the most anti-clerical of the Deistic thinkers of the time, many of his positions are without question representative of the Assassin line of thinking.

 

[Para bailar La Bomba]

ANOTHER IMPORTANT BRITISH PLAYER

Lieutenant Colonel Robert Rogers

An American colonial frontiersman. Rogers served in the British army during both the French and Indian War and the American Revolution. During the French and Indian War Rogers raised and commanded the famous Rogers' Rangers, often credited as one of the first Special Ops units in modern warfare.

The unit was informally trained as a rapidly deployable light infantry force tasked with reconnaissance and conducting special operations against distant targets. Their military tactics were so bold and effective that the unit became the chief scouting unit of British Crown forces in the late 1750s. The British valued them highly for gathering intelligence about the enemy. Later, several members of Rogers' Rangers became influential leaders in the American Revolutionary War. Numerous ex-rangers participated as patriot militiamen at the Battle of Concord Bridge.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

awesome thread I hope this game does so well that makers of these Modern War games would consider wars that predate the World Wars

America vs Great Britain may not sell as well as these modern war games but those seem like much more interesting times and causes for war than the complexity of these new battles

but the issue maybe these early wars are too academic maybe? Games that should be published by PBS instead of Ubi or EA

So I welcome seeing just a little bit touched on in AC3 I look forward to seeing how this all turns out

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Better be a mission

 

[Dr Zhivago]

Better be a mission

That image always makes me think of:

 

[Bjoern the Smexy]

If the Boston Tea Party won't be a mission in the game I will be very dissapointed.

 

[Amir0x]

Probably the most interesting thing I've learned all year. You really mean accents? Or the language itself?

Whoa, really?

i've heard that it's not the accent per se, but rather, the fact that most british english accents used to be rhotic, but now most aren't, but american english generally still is

but there's a difference between rhoticity and accent. people in the west country have a rhotic accent, but they don't sound american because of it.

This is what specifically I was told by a friend, who happens to be one of the most intelligent people I know on GAF and in general. I trust very much what he tells me, but of course I cannot verify it myself since I just learned about it this week. I believe him implicitly. Here is his comment:

Here's something non-etymological I learned quite recently: did you know that our American accents resemble circa-1600s British accents? In other words, our accent has stayed largely the same: it is the British who have changed their accents over time! Learning that changed so much despite its triviality.

...

It falls under linguistic studies, and at least for the last 300-400 years we have some fairly good historical records of pronunciation through the ages (to be specific, all accents have long since diverged from Modern English's "standard" accent, which developed in 1400 and was rapidly abandoned. Since then, some historians have taken time to write down at least some changes in pronunciation, through dictionaries or otherwise).


I have a couple friends who are linguists at Wash U, and they've discussed these issues with me a few times. Accents are much more fascinating than people give them credit for.

Either way, though, it is amazing stuff. It blew my mind.

Great thread idea. Over the past year or so I've been thrust straight in to the American Revolution War and coupled with the fact that I have not played an Assassin's Creed game (outside of the first entry for an hour or so), I am slightly excited about the prospect of this if done right.

Yea, I am too. I don't know if the AC gameplay will function in a fun fashion, but I do know I am riveted to find out how they interpret this pivotal moment in world history.

awesome thread I hope this game does so well that makers of these Modern War games would consider wars that predate the World Wars

America vs Great Britain may not sell as well as these modern war games but those seem like much more interesting times and causes for war than the complexity of these new battles

but the issue maybe these early wars are too academic maybe? Games that should be published by PBS instead of Ubi or EA

So I welcome seeing just a little bit touched on in AC3 I look forward to seeing how this all turns out

I think the issue with the earlier wars is more about finding a way to make the gunplay involved in those periods fun. For many, sitting and desperately trying to pack and reload your weapon (which took, like, half a minute or longer or something, forget exactly how fast the best people could do it) wouldn't be fun in a FPS. But of course there are other ways to tackle the subject, other genres... and this is one of them. Going to be fascinating.

ANOTHER IMPORTANT BRITISH PLAYER

Lieutenant Colonel Robert Rogers

An American colonial frontiersman. Rogers served in the British army during both the French and Indian War and the American Revolution. During the French and Indian War Rogers raised and commanded the famous Rogers' Rangers, often credited as one of the first Special Ops units in modern warfare.

The unit was informally trained as a rapidly deployable light infantry force tasked with reconnaissance and conducting special operations against distant targets. Their military tactics were so bold and effective that the unit became the chief scouting unit of British Crown forces in the late 1750s. The British valued them highly for gathering intelligence about the enemy. Later, several members of Rogers' Rangers became influential leaders in the American Revolutionary War. Numerous ex-rangers participated as patriot militiamen at the Battle of Concord Bridge.

Ah, fantastic choice! Very good stuff here.

I was thinking about this last night and I'd say it depends on how much one is willing to smudge the dates exactly. Like Franklin, Paine spent significant time in France. He was there as a representative of the US for a while, as well as a prisoner for sometime in Paris. In fact, he felt as though

Spoiler

Washington betrayed him

, as there was no concerted effort by the US to have him freed. Meaning, Paine may play well into however the Templar/Assassin divide falls post-Revolution. At his core, Paine was most definitely a man of the people -- a lowly pamphleteer. I could see Connor running into him on the streets once a chapter; have it be a bit of an episodic storyline. We get to see how important Paine was in rallying the people (maybe Connor is convinced into fighting the British because of him) against their enemies. This passive relationship would continue until Paine's death, which would lead into one of the more emotional scenes of the game. Connor would be one the few people to attend Paine's funeral (in line with the history) and honor him in some memorable way i.e., Paine may have been forgotten amongst the people but not amongst the Assassins. And since Paine was without question the most anti-clerical of the Deistic thinkers of the time, many of his positions are without question representative of the Assassin line of thinking.

Aha, that does sound like it could be an interesting approach. And Paine is such that you could probably change some aspects of where he was without causing too many people to shrug, considering his somewhat lesser role in the realm of American History relative to the other founding fathers.

 

[tekumseh]

I must admit it: Given my voracious appetite for American history, when combined with my extreme love of the AC series, this game has given me the biggest e-woody in my gaming lifetime of over 30 years. I shall now commit to a complete blackout about the game while counting down the days to its release...

 

[Amir0x]

ha, your name is tekumseh. awesome