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[Lemondish]

In theory that's true. You could have a 900p game with high IQ, MSAA, SSAO, AF, motion blur, depth of field etc, vs a native 1080p with none of those things. But the reality is dropping 180p to 900p doesn't give you the headroom to add in all those effects.

1080p is the gold standard for console gaming, and on the PS4, should be absolutely standard.

A drop of 30% doesn't give you enough headroom to add in those effects?

 

[justsomeguy]

The contention is two fold:

- 30fps feels more cinematic
- It actually feels better for people when it's at 30fps

I mean... neither of these claims stands up to any scrutiny. They are up there with the worst possible things people can say about 30fps vs 60fps!

right, but those weren't in the quote I responded to, and I said there were other bits in that article more worthy of discussion. But 30fps/cinematic is a well trodden discussion on gaf and totally ot for this thread unless people think the ps4 was also held back from 60fps by the xbox.

 

[Honey Bunny]

"60 fps doesn't look like the real thing." The real what? A movie? It's a god damn video game.

 

[barit]

Naughty Dog will teach them how cinematic a 60fps action TPS can be

 

[SolidSnakex]

"60 fps doesn't look like the real thing." The real what? A movie? It's a god damn video game.

Bingo! It's very much a "You're doing it wrong" situation. If you're pushing hardware so much that you can't hit 60fps, then that's fine. If you don't want to hit 60fps because you feel that it hurts the cinematic appeal of your game, then you're doing it wrong.

 

[stryke]

right, but those weren't in the quote I responded to, and I said there were other bits in that article more worthy of discussion. But 30fps/cinematic is a well trodden discussion on gaf and totally ot for this thread unless people think the ps4 was also held back from 60fps by the xbox.

It's because they can't keep a narrative straight - they had targets for 1080p60, then they pretend they wanted 900p30 all along and blame advanced AI load on the cpu, then they try to justify 30fps as it's more cinematic.

And if you think there's better stuff to discuss, make a thread.

 

[SLESS]

Personally I'm not going to buy another ubisoft game, this is the straw that broke the camels back. The other straws are the fact I find all their games to be boring shit, I'm not joking I think their games are rubbish.

 

[jaaz]

Game has gone from a "must-buy" for me to a "wait and see", at best. What a monumental screw-up.

 

[UrbanRats]

Bingo! It's very much a "You're doing it wrong" situation. If you're pushing hardware so much that you can't hit 60fps, then that's fine. If you don't want to hit 60fps because you feel that it hurts the cinematic appeal of your game, then you're doing it wrong.

I think, every time someone goes for the latter as a reason, they're always full of shit and don't actually want to admit to the former, because who they're talking to clearly cares about 60fps more.

 

[Radec]

Naughty Dog will teach them how cinematic a 60fps action TPS can be

I doubt UC4 will be 1080p and 60fps.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

The most cinematic of cinematic game franchises, Call of Duty, has targeted 60fps from jump street. Miss me with the 30fps because cinema shit.

 

[valkyre]

I am watching the latest gameplay videos and previews, and sorry but the game is downgraded as fuck compared to the E3 and gamescom builds...

Perhaps it was PC for E3 and gamescom and now it is console, but whatever the case, the downgrade is obvious.

 

[TheCloser]

I doubt UC4 will be 1080p and 60fps.

I kinda hope that it's 1080p30 or the graphics will not be as impressive. I like uncharted for 3 main reasons: the amazing grapics/setpieces, the story, and the gameplay.

 

[May16]

I'm out. There's no way I'm going to support a company that treats its customers like they're completely stupid the way Ubisoft is doing.

There are so many other good games that my time and money will go to something just as entertaining, but more deserving.

 

[Aliand]

Could be they're shifting the parity bashing to a more acceptable 30/60fps bashing.

 

[Cave Johnson]

I'm out. There's no way I'm going to support a company that treats its customers like they're completely stupid the way Ubisoft is doing.

There are so many other good games that my time and money will go to something just as entertaining, but more deserving.

The more people think this way, the better the industry would be. People tend to forget that consumers have the biggest sway in business but a lot are too blind to see it.

 

[aspiegamer]

Okay, so not only is the resolution 900p to 'avoid debates' but they're now trying to downplay what framerates mean? Not just that they settled on 30 but back to the console pre-launch bullshit of actually trying to justify it? Christ. If they just admitted "we're going for 30 because it's the most stable we can consistently promise" people would be entirely understanding. No need for that "filmic" bullshit again. This all reeks of code for "this game is a potential graphic disaster so we're trying to set the bar as low as possible for you. Please enjoy our product!"

I pray there's no money involved here. Well, even more than before. If, not only the PS4 version ends up gimped the game is also a buggy unstable trainwreck on all versions, that'll be a whole extra tier of shit that's inexcusable and they need to be held accountable for. You can't go from "targeting 1080/60" to 900/30 and worried impressions on the console they're doing demos with without either 1) being paid, 2) being incompetent, or 3) both.

In a way this is a less-visible repeat of the DRM debacle leading up to the XB1 reveal. Just a few quotes about downplaying the importance of things people care about and treating consumers like they're idiots had massive backlash and soured things across the board. Ubi is entering that territory. All they need to do to come full circle on trying to justify things is to send a top PR rep to NeoGAF to try to calm people down like Microsoft did.

Wow, that was all angry. Meh, I mean all of it. This sort of garbage needs to be pinned down and snuffed out before it spreads across the industry.

 

[valkyre]

Screw 30 fps Ubisoft! Aim for 15 fps from now on! You go get 'em girl!

 

[Calabi]

So developers really do believe 30fps is more cinematic? Everyones moving towards 30fps as a standard? I think I might give up with gaming if that's the case.

If they want to make movies then they should make movies, games are not movies, every game that tries to be a movie is a shit movie(with a few exceptions). I dont want my games to be cinematic, as if seen through a camera, blurry, heavily post processed, laggy inputs. I want them to see like I see, be immersive, clear, responsive, like with occulus but without the occulus.

 

[Green Yoshi]

Screw 30 fps Ubisoft! Aim for 15 fps from now on! You go get 'em girl!

24 fps are the deal. Learn from the best, learn from Hollywood!

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Ubi, stop!

 

[thelastcrusader]

The more people think this way, the better the industry would be. People tend to forget that consumers have the biggest sway in business but a lot are too blind to see it.

Good, cancel your preorders people. Fuck this practice. Ubisoft owes us an apology and 1080p

 

[Crossing Eden]

Guys,what would happen if the XBO version has a few enchantments?
Like slighty better shadows, AA, or textures, lightning,etc.

I think GAF would explode.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Well this game will surely be shit.

Resolution and 30fps does not make a game bad.

 

[benny_a]

Guys,what would happen if the XBO version has a few enchantments?
Like slighty better shadows, AA, or textures, lightning,etc.

Enchantment? Enchantment!

 

[Handy Fake]

Enchantment? Enchantment!

Daniel Craig?

 

[FlyingSaucer]

Could be they're shifting the parity bashing to a more acceptable 30/60fps bashing.

Seems to be working.

 

[Gaffercake]

I've been wondering, after the beta Xbox One gameplay leaked, people analysed the footage and said it was running at around 792p. What if originally, 792p was planned for X1 and 900p for PS4, but MS encouraged Ubi to bump up the res to match PS4's like they did with Diablo?

 

[thelastcrusader]

I've been wondering, after the beta Xbox One gameplay leaked, people analysed the footage and said it was running at around 792p. What if originally, 792p was planned for X1 and 900p for PS4, but MS encouraged Ubi to bump up the res to match PS4's like they did with Diablo?

If they got the resources for that then they got the resources to bump PS4 to 1080p.

 

[Gaffercake]

If they got the resources for that then they got the resources to bump PS4 to 1080p.

What if they wanted to prioritise performance? PS4 might have a rock solid framerate while the X1's fluctuates quite a bit

 

[JonathanPower]

I doubt UC4 will be 1080p and 60fps.

I don't.

 

[Night Angel]

What if they wanted to prioritise performance? PS4 might have a rock solid framerate while the X1's fluctuates quite a bit

What if we read the damn quote from the developer who said they locked it down at 900p to avoid debates and stuff? Why must everyone make up a reason when we were given one in the first place?

 

[ultratruman]

I'm not sure how it could be interpreted any other way. Xbox third party games looking better or at parity with the PS4 has been a huge messaging challenge since the release of system specs. It has always mattered. That's why people like Penello came in here to prop their stuff up.

This is something that Microsoft cares about. This is something all console manufacturers care about.

Brad Shoemaker on the Bombcast was talking about how Microsoft probably knows people who care about resolution have already made up their minds about what console they want and they won't care enough about resolution to ask a developer for parity.

 

[endlessflood]

I don't.

None of the Uncharted games have been 60fps. They would never want to make the graphical compromises that 60fps would require for a game like that, they'll want the bells and whistles and 30fps will mean more bells and whistles.

You can bet it'll be 1080p though. That's the res that all games should be running in now.

 

[Foxycotin]

How are people expecting UC4 to be 1080p 60fps? Does ps4 have a gtx 670 or am I missing something?

 

[Cave Johnson]

None of the Uncharted games have been 60fps. They would never want to make the graphical compromises that 60fps would require for a game like that, they'll want the bells and whistles and 30fps will mean more bells and whistles.

You can bet it'll be 1080p though. That's the res that all games should be running in now.

But according to their statement. 60fps is the target. Neil even commented on the fact that it felt so much better playing TLOU that "it's hard to go back". This is the same director running the show now.

The fact that they're going 60fps despite the limitations it provides is a bold and and admiral step for the developers.

I'm so glad that the developers who won 2 GOTY in a row aren't being complacent and realize that that priority on gameplay rather than cinematics is the next step forward. This puts a lot of damper to the 30fps supporters as neither the top developers of BOTH the Xbox and PS camp will artificially limit their potential with 30fps. That feature is too outdated and ready to be booted off.

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

How are people expecting UC4 to be 1080p 60fps? Does ps4 have a gtx 670 or am I missing something?

You don't need top-end hardware to get a game to be 1080/60, dude.

 

[JABEE]

Brad Shoemaker on the Bombcast was talking about how Microsoft probably knows people who care about resolution have already made up their minds about what console they want and they won't care enough about resolution to ask a developer for parity.

There are already examples of this being the opposite of what Brad is saying. Diablo 3 and Destiny were two examples of Microsoft still caring.

 

[DustyVonEric]

Brad Shoemaker on the Bombcast was talking about how Microsoft probably knows people who care about resolution have already made up their minds about what console they want and they won't care enough about resolution to ask a developer for parity.

Which was a crazy point for Brad to make.

Many people have bought their console already, but the larger user base just found out that their version of this game may have been held back due to politics, not purely technical reasons.

This larger user base is going to be upset as we're seeing here and around the Internet. And it's spreading rightly or wrongly that...

A) people shouldn't buy this game because reasons (forced parity, politics, Ubi treating customers like dummies, take your pick), or at least buy it used, bargain bin, etc
B) the PS4 version was held back to match the Xbox 1's weaker hardware (yeah, I'm sure MS is going to love that negative image spreading after all their hard work lately to crush it)
C) some are implying it could have been MS that prompted this locking of specs (again MS is going to absolutely love that accusation floating around)

That's more stink piled on Xbox 1, when MS is just recovering from that reveal, DRM, mandatory Kinect business

This absolutely matters for MS. And it matters for Ubi also who have the stink of the Watchdogs downgrade still on them.

Heck, I'd be pissed if I was Sony Too. They may lose AC game sales over this.

I like him, but Brad has been pretty shortsighted on this issue from the start, initially thinking this was fanboy bickering all over "180p's".

 

[Foxycotin]

You don't need top-end hardware to get a game to be 1080/60, dude.

I understand this but UC3 was already utilizing pretty heavy shaders and filtering back on ps3. It seems that if ND wanted to advance graphical quality to current gen while maintaining smooth performance then UC4 would most likely be 1080p 30fps. Just estimating though

 

[vg260]

hey, I am about to get destroyed, but I kind of agree with him. 60 fps makes some games feel off to me, i dont know how to describe it. They have that artificial fake look to them, that is the best I can describe the feeling.

I can see why you may not be used to it, but we're talking about textured polygon characters and environments that look far from reality even for the best models. That's one reason I don't buy the apparently artificial or fake feeling thing. Reality is not 30 fps, so that should looks less like reality than higher framerates. I don't get how more choppy animation and movement looks more "real". The only thing 30 looks closer to is the film standard people have been conditioned to.

 

[keltickennedy]

There are already examples of this being the opposite of what Brad is saying. Diablo 3 and Destiny were two examples of Microsoft still caring.

Yes, but in those cases it was because the PS4 versions were outputting full 1080p. I still believe that AC Unity was always intended to be 900p on PS4 for a while now. Maybe back when they initially started development they had dreams of 60fps/1080p, but where is Ubisofts track record for ever producing that on console? 30fps seems to be their standard, while resolution is secondary depending on the type of visuals they are trying to push.

 

[Daviii]

I understand this but UC3 was already utilizing pretty heavy shaders and filtering back on ps3. It seems that if ND wanted to advance graphical quality to current gen while maintaining smooth performance then UC4 would most likely be 1080p 30fps. Just estimating though

They can make a game 1080p/60 with orders of magnitude better visuals than PS3 without a problem. They can make a game 1080p/30 prettier than that though

It's a matter of how pretty you want to go, uh?

 

[Handy Fake]

With regards to UC4, wasn't there talk of "some crazy pipelining techniques" on the go?

 

[Xando]

With regards to UC4, wasn't there talk of "some crazy pipelining techniques" on the go?

I think so yes.


If Uncharted 4 releases at 1080p/60fps and looks like the E3 trailer i cant understand how some devs even if they are multiplattform can justify anything less than 1080p/30 fps.

 

[keltickennedy]

I think so yes.


If Uncharted 4 releases at 1080p/60fps and looks like the E3 trailer i cant understand how some devs even if they are multiplattform can justify anything less than 1080p/30 fps.

Naughty Dog is a developer that has had years of experience developing on only Sony consoles. They are also on their payroll and I'm sure have some internal Playstation hardware techs. I can understand it completely. Also, not every development team has the same team with the same skillset. Naughty Dog are arguably considered the best of the best.

 

[DustyVonEric]

From the wiki

In addition to their inhouse game team, Naughty Dog is also home to the ICE Team

Such a badass sounding name >

ICE Team is no joke, but yeah. U4 with those trailer graphics at 1080p / 60? Must see it to believe it. 60 unlocked with the option to lock at 30, I definitely see happening though.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

I think so yes.


If Uncharted 4 releases at 1080p/60fps and looks like the E3 trailer i cant understand how some devs even if they are multiplattform can justify anything less than 1080p/30 fps.

*Beaten like a red headed step child.

Naughty Dog are part of the ICE Team who helped develop the PS4 hardware and create graphics engines/software tools for all the first part studios to use.

If they make it 1080p60 it's only because they know the hardware and software inside and out, backwards and forwards.

 

[RoboPlato]

From the wiki



Such a badass sounding name >

ICE Team is no joke, but yeah. U4 with those trailer graphics at 1080p / 60? Must see it to believe it. 60 unlocked with the option to lock at 30, I definitely see happening though.

ND has been very gung ho on 60fps lately. I expect Uncharted 4 to be as smooth as TLoU Remastered in regards to framerate. Obviously not perfect but satisfactory for most people.

 

[hagege_s]

ND has been very gung ho on 60fps lately. I expect Uncharted 4 to be as smooth as TLoU Remastered in regards to framerate. Obviously not perfect but satisfactory for most people.

Yeah I don't expect 60fps but 45-50 is what we're going to have I think (frankly it's hard to see the difference between 45-50 and true 60 fps).