Tech not count but I don't think there is something of more advanced in DC. So you just think but based on what? And you put above the matter tech not count when a game it's horrible to see. There are a lot of things quite horrible on Unity, if you want realkt to play this card.
Assassin's Creed Unity -- The graphics "leap" we've all been waiting for.
- Thread starter VFX_Veteran
- Start date
VFX_Veteran
Banned
Nope. I don't. I guess DC can teach me.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
The only thing DC has going for it is dynamic GI. If you want to label that as a tech-feat that makes it rise above the beautiful screenshots of "gameplay" footage of AC:U, then go right ahead and claim DC as the best graphics game to come into the home...
VFX_Veteran provides some good laughs. The humor we have all been waiting for.
DC perhaps not (i dont think anyone claimed that DC is a physics simulator), a thing or two about cars and physics, might though.
Raitosaito
Member
This thread has devolve to how much smoke a car can make deciding it's graphical quality.
So you can say AC Unity it's superb but if someone try to say the same about the DC, that's different. I see what we have here
DC's photomode uses the PS4's regular image capture to grab the screens. It produces high-quality screens by accumulation when you hold the camera still for a bit. If you don't let it do that, the photomode is just the game's real-time graphics.
In cases where the progress bar isn't shown, you might be looking at what is essentially a bullshot, although that doesn't really add or remove details from the image; tire smoke doesn't suddenly appear in photo mode when it wouldn't normally have been there.
DC is somewhat conservative with dust kicked up from the dirt sides of the track. You can see plenty of debris (sticks, dirt chunks, etc), but it doesn't produce dust until there's pretty significant friction with the dirt. I think there's a little bit kicked up in the video, but not a lot. It doesn't produce huge clouds of dust unless you're really getting in there are messing with it; high-friction acceleration, drifting, etc.
First off, this stuff is not "cutscene" footage.
Second, the reason there's no smoke is that the tires aren't getting that hot. Extremely aggressive acceleration (like here, where I rolled back a little and punched hard in forward) can produce plenty of smoke, as do aggressive drifts in fast vehicles.
Normal maps adjust surface normals. That's a displacement.
That's a more expressive form of geometric deformation, but by any reasonable definition of "deformation", Driveclub's cars do deform.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
No.. I can disagree with them if they think DC is better looking than AC:U. What's wrong with that?
icecold1983
Member
Since you like to attatch my handle to imaginary claims let me specify, im only comparing driveclub to pcars
MDSLKTR
Gold Member
Infamous isn't next gen and colorful particles are there just to mask that fact
Last of us is only pretty because it's on rails (same with the order)
BF4 xbone has sharper textures then on ps4
BF4 SP superior to KZ SP
Etc etc...
That's just how VFX rolls, he goes to ridiculous lengths to discredit ps4 games and then says that you missed the point when you correct him and that he works in the industry. The bias is strong in this one
VFX_Veteran
Banned
Thank you for the logical explanation. You are basically saying that due to hardware limitations, DC is a little conservative in mimicking real-life physics. Perfectly understandable.
I don't mean cutscene in the fact that it's pre-rendered. I mean cutscene in that you have no control anymore as a gamer. Games like TLOU use incredible visuals when a realtime cutscene is being showed. However, when the game gives control back to the user, the game's visuals take a big step down. A very common technique.
That is a displacement, but not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about individually modeled pieces of geometry that get blown away or actual tessellation of the base geometry to approximate the normal map more precisely. Not just moving verts on a pre-baked model.
-M
Infamous isn't next gen and colorful particles are there just to mask that fact
Last of us is only pretty because it's on rails (same with the order)
BF4 xbone has sharper then os ps4
BF4 SP superior to KZ SP
Etc etc...
That's just how VFX rolls, he goes to ridiculous lengths to discredit ps4 games and then says that you missed the point when you correct him and that he works in the industry. The bias is strong in this one
Thanks for this. Guess there is no point arguing, glad to know.
Indeed, the animations just look average and some of them are downright laughable to me.
I've seen you say this before and it bugged me last time but I didn't say anything, so I'll say it this time. The GI solution AC Unity uses is not similar to the light probe solution you see in "many other games". If it did then you wouldn't have 25GB of lighting data in AC Unity or the other games would have extremely large HDD space dedicated to lighting data when they don't. The solution you see in Alien Isolation and Driveclub and Farcry 3/Farcry 4 all use light probes, and they are in no way similar to the one seen in AC Unity. Unity has completely pre baked GI (as in the calculations are done offline and then the data is mapped onto the textures permanently) with probes used for only dynamic objects such as characters. The other games I mentioned do it in a complete dynamic manner for example Farcry 3 generates the light probes while loading the game and it changes on the fly with the change in TOD. If AC Unity did the same then you would have a dynamic day night cycle in that game too but it does not.
And "very few games use PBR" is wrong, almost every game released this gen uses PBR. The crowd is not "never seen before" we've had games with thousands of NPCs on screen since the 6th gen era, some even more than AC Unity, the quality of the models and the complexity of their behaviour is a different argument and completely irrelevant to the discussion here all together so do not bring it up (you have to also consider the fact that these were released in last gen hardware). Remember Heavenly Sword? or Hitman ? Or how about Dead Rising 3?
Make note that you should not disregard Dead Rising 3 just because they are zombies, because even though they are zombies the AI information still needs to be processed just the same and it is in fact more complex than the NPCs in AC Unity because of how the zombies react as a horde. The NPC AI in unity is as basic as you could get, they do not react to the world or the player like the NPCs in GTA5 which is the benchmark in NPC AI today. As for Dead Rising 3 the details are out there which tells you about the complexity of zombie horde in Dead Rising 3 so you can go read them if you want proof. Plus the fact that the cosmetics of the zombies models are highly randomised in Dead Rising 3 when it comes to their clothing and deformation. Compare this to the low model variety and low quality of the NPC models and the high amount of pop in plus the fact that you can have 10 NPCs in close proximity repeating the same animation all at the same time and I don't know what you are talking about !
AC Unity is a genuinely fantastic looking game, it has its flaws and it has its strengths (amazing art style, indoors and environmental lighting) but you have gone out of your way to build a mountain out of a molehill in this thread by downplaying every single other game and blowing up every single bit of information about AC Unity, and not to mention the shifting goal posts in your discussions (talking about tech, then switching to gameplay and now about the artstyle at your convenience). The quote below is proof of this.
Infamous isn't next gen and colorful particles are there just to mask that fact
Last of us is only pretty because it's on rails (same with the order)
BF4 xbone has sharper textures then on ps4
BF4 SP superior to KZ SP
Etc etc...
That's just how VFX rolls, he goes to ridiculous lengths to discredit ps4 games and then says that you missed the point when you correct him and that he works in the industry. The bias is strong in this one
This is what I was talking about in the bolded.
Also Last of Us does not have baked lighting, it has baked GI but the rest is real time.
And how is it a negative point when talking about Last of Us, but "Does not matter" when it's about AC Unity.
And for someone who claims to be in the industry it is surprisingly ill informed of him to say BF4 on Xbone didn't use GI but did in PS4...when it was the gamma curve that was causing the dark look. Even PS360 version of BF3/BF4 used a form of baked GI lightmap with probes for dynamic objects (hence they could get around with having baked GI with the game having destruction, since the destruction would be the same all the time in these two games)
VFX_Veteran
Banned
Infamous isn't next gen and colorful particles are there just to mask that fact
Last of us is only pretty because it's on rails (same with the order)
BF4 xbone has sharper textures then on ps4
BF4 SP superior to KZ SP
Etc etc...
That's just how VFX rolls, he goes to ridiculous lengths to discredit ps4 games and then says that you missed the point when you correct him and that he works in the industry. The bias is strong in this one
I never denied being biased. But a lot of console owners won't admit they are biased too. So you can quit with the finger pointing.. look at the hate garnered about Ubisoft by several GAFers who have just jumped on the hate train without even playing the game. That's biased right away. Or assuming that Naughty Dog's UC4 will automatically destroy any PC game to date when it comes out. If that's not biased, I must be missing something..
Well, maybe. Obviously, if you want to avoid framerate spikes, you can't just always spew all the alpha you want everywhere.
But in DC's case, I've never seen it drop frames even when it's churning dust and smoke out in full force, which makes me wonder if the extreme gentleness of the dust-generating gradient is partly for visual design reasons, i.e. feedback.
I know. My point is that DC doesn't have anything like that.
Actually, TLoU uses pre-rendered cutscenes. The PS3 could never dream of producing that IQ at those framerates in real time, even without the "LOD-1" character models.
Then you should have said that up-front rather than accusing geometric displacement of "not being deformation."
That some games do it in a more real-timey way doesn't mean that the AC Unity solution isn't similar to what many other games do. Tons of other games use pre-baked irradiance samples in a volumetric map, although ACU is doing it very densely over a huge environment, hence the massive file sizes.
And there we have it. 30 odd pages of your pushing your opinion in the knowledge you would immediately shoot down anyone who dares to disagree. Roger that.
You are talk like all the console owners are a unique person. I noticed a lot of pc ethusiastich have this problem. It's curious.
curlyfriski
Banned
You know 3 of your 4 links don't match the descriptions you give.Infamous isn't next gen and colorful particles are there just to mask that fact
Last of us is only pretty because it's on rails (same with the order)
BF4 xbone has sharper textures then on ps4
BF4 SP superior to KZ SP
Etc etc...
That's just how VFX rolls, he goes to ridiculous lengths to discredit ps4 games and then says that you missed the point when you correct him and that he works in the industry. The bias is strong in this one
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
It's definitely superb imo. Best of the series and some of the best i've seen from a game. I'm still wondering how they managed to get so many animations to blend together naturally.
Which ones exactly? I'm genuinely curious.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
Um.. I would consider AC Unity as using a form of lightmaps (which is in most games). They are baked down into the texture. The only thing as you said is that it uses light probes instead of the textures having the stored lighting information. And yes, it is semi-dynamic in that the character picks up the light probe information in realtime just as FC3/4.
I never said Alien is similar. Nor did I say DC was similar. FC3/4 *is* similar though. FC3/FC4 has dynamic time of day/night cycles but their light probes aren't generated on-the-fly. The spherical harmonics data is computed and stored in the data structure OFFLINE just like AC:U. They gave a talk about it here.
Alien and DC are using completely dynamic rebuilds of light probes every frame (or few frames).
Just because a game has day/night cycles doesn't mean it has a dynamic GI solution. Take Destiny for example. That doesn't have GI but it still has a day/night cycle.
Can you be more specific please? Like how many games this year use PBR? 80%? Because I would beg to differ.
Two of those games aren't open-world games. Secondly, are you saying that AC:U's crowd system is just average or nothing special? Why are gamers complaining that the crowds need to be deleted because they feel that's what's causing the slowdown on the consoles? I gave a list of features that I thought was a distinguishing factor since someone asked for them. To not admit that the NPCs is one of the selling points of the game sounds like downplaying the game's achievements.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
Omotesando
Member
Well I have seen it and it's definitely AC. Just like last generation. A few new tricks doesn't break it from its predecessors.
Look these are all decent but nothing compared with the sizes of the crowds in ACU.
Spoilers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsra5MUq8J4
VFX_Veteran
Banned
I'm curious too.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
From my experience, the only time the animations don't look good is when the wrong animation plays due to the wrong movement command being pressed, the animation looks floaty if Arno is being to told to go up while on a straight path, as the animations are emphasizing upward body movement while moving forward instead of when the sprint button is just being used. The game usually compensates for it but in the instances where it doesn't it doesn't look good. But when it does compensate for it it looks natural.
TheLaughingStock
Member
If Unity was so good, then DF would've ensured that phrases like state of the art, a benchmark, and standard in technology were thrown in the article to let outside people know you're looking at some of the best work out there. They say that about virtually every top-tier game, but neglected that rhetoric for this one. I'm not convinced they're leading the industry.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
Yea, to me that's not really how it was intended.. so I'd consider it a glitch or bug? But you are right, when it's doing what the artists envision, I don't see it being just "good".
Are you sure the PS4 version uses real-time cinematics? I only have it on PS3, but everything I can find about the remastered version suggests that it's still using pre-rendered cutscenes.
Finally this embarrassment comes to a conclusion.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
I am not sure. I thought I saw that somewhere on these boards. I could be wrong though.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
Theyvare still using pre-rendrered cinematics (unlike Uncharted 4 which will be their first game to ditch that), but now on PS4 remastered version they are using the hi-res models seen in the cutscenes in the gameplay (they did that before with Uncharted games but TLOU models were more texing for the PS3).
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Visited the pc screenshot thread. You'd swear that some of these were bullshots or modded.
Looking forward to the graphics mods.
Looking forward to the graphics mods.
Cutscenes in TLoUR are prerendered, just 1080/60 this time instead of 720/30. Uncharted 4 will be their first game that's all real time. I expect many games this gen will go that route to save disk space.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I really need to buy Far Cry 4. Goddamn.
Meh. Doesn't look any better than FC3 to my eyes (on PC, max details).
That looks like 4k DSR (or native) probably with 2-4-MSAA(or similar), 30fps... so probably a 980SLI system atleast. Most of the PC Ultra setting videos I have seen look good but pretty much Farcry 3.5
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Well it is using the same engine, just a beefed up version of it.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Take this in for a minute.
Caayn
Member
Can be. Although it's strange that only the stats of one GPU is shown instead of 2, if it really is SLI. Why monitor only one GPU?
iNvid02
Member
^ nice, pomf was taking forever to grab a url. FC3 is actually not bad at all, just loaded it up again to check after thinking, nah it was way worse. Vegetation is already great and the lighting isn't bad. FC4 definitely goes an extra mile or two though and it really adds.
FC3 isn't too shabby, but here it is for comparison:
http://a.pomf.se/tihiiz.webm
I'm on 2560x1440 and only SMAA. No SLI just one 780ti, a single 980 should do it, maybe even 970?
FC3 isn't too shabby, but here it is for comparison:
http://a.pomf.se/tihiiz.webm
I'm on 2560x1440 and only SMAA. No SLI just one 780ti, a single 980 should do it, maybe even 970?
Crysis 1 came out in 2007 and is on par, if not better than the gif you posted. Your gif really reminds me of the first level of Crysis 1 and it was like a flashback to that - speaking of I should really go back and play Crysis 1 again.
Yeah, ACU is currently the best looking game I have played, but FC4 is no slouch and is definitely one of the best looking games to come out this gen so far. I just wish it ran as well as ACU for me. I have some minor stuttering in FC4 that I haven't been able to make go away.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
What is this a pic of? I can't tell -- makes me download something.
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