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August Wrasslin' |OT| Make a.. make a good...uh...a good wrestling thread

B

bjork

Member
Man God said:
Vince...I mean come on. He screwed over himself for months just to...get revenge on Austin? When he could have screwed him weeks ago at Backlash? He pretended to be a good guy only to be a bad guy for no gain?
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I don't know the real story with this, but all one can figure is that some sort of plans fell through with a different talent. It's the only way this makes any sense.
 
M

Menome

Member
We got a terrible storyline resolution, but also one of the greatest .gifs of all time and everyone remembers it.

Would we even still be talking about it nearly twenty years later if it had been Shane or some other talent?
 
D

DMczaf

Member
Zach said:
I'm under a hood now, brother.
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Darkside Zach

7672413.png
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Sir_Crocodile said:
Don't forget, THE SAME DAY linda & steph made austin CEO.

GOOD JOB VINCE

Still, in the end it's all worth it for JR's commentary.
Click to expand...

I mean, it's still one of the most memorable if not the most memorable moment in RAW history. Its something you can reference today even among non wrestling fans of a certain age and they'll know what you're talking about.

WWF is just moving so fast at this point. Jeff and Matt have officially redebuted on RAW is OWEN with PS Hayes as their manager. Edge talked for the first time on that show. The corporate Ministry has almost all the titles. HHH got My Time as his theme only three weeks ago and JR is starting that "You know HHH is just as good as anyone in the business" sort of talk. DX is down to just Road Dogg and X to the P A C.
 
S

Sir_Crocodile

Member
Menome said:
We got a terrible storyline resolution, but also one of the greatest .gifs of all time and everyone remembers it.

Would we even still be talking about it nearly twenty years later if it had been Shane or some other talent?
Click to expand...

Much as I love him, I don't think Shane-o could have pulled off EVEN MY IMMEDIATE FAMILY BOUGHT IT

Man God said:
I mean, it's still one of the most memorable if not the most memorable moment in RAW history. Its something you can reference today even among non wrestling fans of a certain age and they'll know what you're talking about.

WWF is just moving so fast at this point. Jeff and Matt have officially redebuted on RAW is OWEN with PS Hayes as their manager. Edge talked for the first time on that show. The corporate Ministry has almost all the titles. HHH got My Time as his theme only three weeks ago and JR is starting that "You know HHH is just as good as anyone in the business" sort of talk. DX is down to just Road Dogg and X to the P A C.
Click to expand...

That was when I realised "hey, road dogg can't actually wrestle"
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
OwensIsNow said:
I'd think it'd be better to have Shinsuke speak Japanese and use a translator. His english kinda dragged the interview down.
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It's part of the character.

Kind of the way Asuka's character never really speaks English except like 2 sentences before her TakeOver matches. Whether she can actually speak more English than that, who knows, but it works.
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
Man God said:
I mean, it's still one of the most memorable if not the most memorable moment in RAW history. Its something you can reference today even among non wrestling fans of a certain age and they'll know what you're talking about.

WWF is just moving so fast at this point. Jeff and Matt have officially redebuted on RAW is OWEN with PS Hayes as their manager. Edge talked for the first time on that show. The corporate Ministry has almost all the titles. HHH got My Time as his theme only three weeks ago and JR is starting that "You know HHH is just as good as anyone in the business" sort of talk. DX is down to just Road Dogg and X to the P A C.
Click to expand...

Oh so HHH has his best theme now?
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Sir_Crocodile said:
Much as I love him, I don't think Shane-o could have pulled off EVEN MY IMMEDIATE FAMILY BOUGHT IT
Click to expand...

The thing is...Shane O is really great during this period of being the little shit usurper. He is basically the higher power as he got the Ministry to kidnap Stephanie and he wanted control over the brand...until two weeks later when they do the actual skit with Vince.

This does lead to CEO 3:16 though, one of the better skits in WWF history, so I can't be that mad.
 
S

Sir_Crocodile

Member
They got exactly what they needed from Shinsuke in that interview.

The build for this match has been great

Sephzilla said:
Oh so HHH has his best theme now?
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Who the hell WAS montel? The dude version of rikki lake? I never really got that reference not living in the us

Man God said:
The thing is...Shane O is really great during this period of being the little shit usurper. He is basically the higher power as he got the Ministry to kidnap Stephanie and he wanted control over the brand...until two weeks later when they do the actual skit with Vince.

This does lead to CEO 3:16 though, one of the better skits in WWF history, so I can't be that mad.
Click to expand...

I have always wondered whether it was a last minute change or whether vince wanted it to be him ALL ALONG.

Maybe I should email the WO and see if Meltzer knows

OwensIsNow said:
Who would have made sense in that higher power position though?
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Mantaur
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
OwensIsNow said:
Who would have made sense in that higher power position though?
Click to expand...

My short list.

1. Shane. He basically IS the higher power and then just goes nope, my dad is the real mastermind.

2. Stephanie. Just replace HHH with Undertaker and they run this plan later this year!

3. Jake the Snake. Long rumored...but this would have sucked.

4. Someone big from WCW. Anyone. Bischoff would have been best.

5. Anyone not named Vincent Kennedy McMahon. Mankind, pissed from being kicked out of the corporation. Linda, pissed at her husband. Vince Russo, doing a dry run of WCW 2000. I don't care.
 
R

Recall

Member
OwensIsNow said:
Who would have made sense in that higher power position though?
Click to expand...

People still attended the shows, bought the merch, and watched the PPVs. Why would it need to make sense when money was still made and the reveal wouldnt have changed a thing?

1999 WWE worked. It did what it was supposed to. It made money.
 
Barrage

Barrage

Member
Man God said:
So it's finally time to talk about something that's been building for a long time rewatching 1999 WWF programming.

...

Vince...I mean come on. He screwed over himself for months just to...get revenge on Austin? When he could have screwed him weeks ago at Backlash? He pretended to be a good guy only to be a bad guy for no gain?
Click to expand...

Your listed "possible suspects" is missing one of the most highly rumoured possibilities at the time...the Ultimate Warrior.

I still think in terms of entertainment (becuase I feel Summer of 99 was a flop in that regard) the Million Dollar Man would have been tremendous and tied into Taker's debut. A sober heel Jake the Snake on the mic against Austin would've been a Godsend, but in 99 that wasn't happening.

P.S.- Vince's heel turn on the Rock in 2000 is also very poorly explained,and not as well done as the Higher Power.
 
B

bjork

Member
OwensIsNow said:
Who would have made sense in that higher power position though?
Click to expand...

Back at the time, the sheetz were throwing out names like Jake, Raven, Sabu, Shane Douglas, and so on. So it's tough to say. Someone who would've been thrust into a feud with Austin, or at least someone who could sell a stunner in the end. So I'm not sure who would've actually worked better, since it was 1999 WWF and the whole thing was ridiculous.
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Recall said:
People still attended the shows, bought the merch, and watched the PPVs. Why would it need to make sense when money was still made and the reveal wouldnt have changed a thing?

1999 WWE worked. It did what it was supposed to. It made money.
Click to expand...

Entirely true. Plus KotR 1999 has an amazing main event.
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
Man God said:
My short list.

1. Shane. He basically IS the higher power and then just goes nope, my dad is the real mastermind.

2. Stephanie. Just replace HHH with Undertaker and they run this plan later this year!

3. Jake the Snake. Long rumored...but this would have sucked.

4. Someone big from WCW. Anyone. Bischoff would have been best.

5. Anyone not named Vincent Kennedy McMahon. Mankind, pissed from being kicked out of the corporation. Linda, pissed at her husband. Vince Russo, doing a dry run of WCW 2000. I don't care.
Click to expand...

Bischoff being the higher power would have resulted in a level of legit shook that would have been felt to this day
 
B

Bluekaveli

Member
Man God said:
So it's finally time to talk about something that's been building for a long time rewatching 1999 WWF programming.

Despite how awesome the actual reveal is, Vince McMahon as the Higher Power is a completely bonkers and literally the worst possible choice. This is the most Russoriffic thing to happen in WWF by a long shot.

Let's go into the history of it to see why.

One day in late 1998 Undertaker decides to go full evil. He brings back Paul Bearer and starts kidnapping random superstars and turning them evil. He steals the Acolytes from the Jackal and has them kidnap Dennis Knight and Mabel turning them into Mideon and Viscera. It's also revealed that the Brood have been working for him the entire time. His goal with his evil ministry? To get Vince to sign over the WWF to him and his "Higher Power" and to get Undertaker a Satanic Bride.

At the same time Vince has consolidated his power behind his Corporation. Shamrock, Test, Big Boss Man, Kane, Shane, The Corporate Champion The Rock, and eventually HHH and Chyna, and who can forget the Mean Street Posse? So they are mainly about keeping the belt on the Rock and off of Mankind and Austin. They screw Austin out of the Royal Rumble but mess up at the finish line and let him get the belt at Wrestlemania. Vince is distracted in those last few weeks by Undertaker trying to steal his daughter Stephanie. This distraction leads to Shane taking over the Corporation and kicking Vince out, plus all of his supporters like Shamrock and the Stooges. Eventually it is revealed that Shane is the one behind the abduction attempts and he merges the corporation and the ministry on the pilot episode of Smackdown and helps The Undertaker beat SCSA at Over the Edge 1999, a PPV remembered for something else entirely. Meanwhile other figures like Big Show and Mankind actually do help Stephanie and end up sort of aligned with Vince in a new Union to stop the Corporate Ministry...for all of two weeks as then they reveal the higher power to be Vince all Along. Vince...who helped Austin retain the belt at Backlash. Vince...who kidnapped his own daughter. Vince, who let his henchmen and himself get seriously beat up week in and week out.

Now if the story had stopped with Shane being the higher power, it would have been fine. The ultimate power play. Distract the old man by kidnapping his daughter. Take over his group with this outside one.

Now if the story had been Stephanie or Linda making a power play, that also could have worked. Maybe Steph really did want to be in control and set up a fake kidnapping, playing her brother against her dad. Maybe Linda was the real puppetmaster all along.

Jake the Snake? Sure. Eric Bischoff? Unlikely, but would have worked. Mankind? Maybe! Hogan? Macho Man? Ric Flair? Why not.

Vince...I mean come on. He screwed over himself for months just to...get revenge on Austin? When he could have screwed him weeks ago at Backlash? He pretended to be a good guy only to be a bad guy for no gain?
Click to expand...
I LOVE how you took us through the Taker 98 transformation.
sf2fanatic said:
Friendship for Lyfe!!!!



*Chair shots Blue in the back*
Click to expand...
DAMN YOU!

OwensIsNow said:
Who would have made sense in that higher power position though?
Click to expand...
Jackyl or Waylon Mercy
 
M

MG310

Member
Angry Grimace said:
That women's tag match on NXT was just I don't even know.

The MMA wrestler was interesting in concept and look, but didn't really do anything and it was weird having Nikki Storm out there under her real name since obviously she'll get rebranded at some point.

Edit: apparently they already rebranded her so its weird that they didn't mention it on the show (since I don't think the commentary is mostly live).
Click to expand...

I liked Daria's look but not sure how she'll mesh with all of the colorful looks/characters the women in NXT have. I expect they'll have her knock girls out like Asuka did during the Dana/Emma feud and probably keep her paired up with Mandy.
 
B

Bluekaveli

Member
Barrage said:
Your listed "possible suspects" is missing one of the most highly rumoured possibilities at the time...the Ultimate Warrior.

I still think in terms of entertainment (becuase I feel Summer of 99 was a flop in that regard) the Million Dollar Man would have been tremendous and tied into Taker's debut. A sober heel Jake the Snake on the mic against Austin would've been a Godsend, but in 99 that wasn't happening.

P.S.- Vince's heel turn on the Rock in 2000 is also very poorly explained,and not as well done as the Higher Power.
Click to expand...
They would've had to pull a complete 180 if Warrior were the higher power, he would've been like Hogan with nWo because he was still Warrior through and through with his roy g biv thing going on.

Vince's turn on the rock as I've said seemed very premature especially since it's done again in 2001, at the same ppv! It's like the blew their load early.
 
B

bjork

Member
I can't even picture (/v\) in 99 WWF. His 96 run was strange enough, minus the most important squash match in wrestling history.
 
B

Bluekaveli

Member
bjork said:
FUCK

I would've forgiven WWF for everything I hated about the attitude era if it meant I got more Waylon Mercy.
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Waylon was s few weeks away from his feud with Taker which would've been hot and put the character in the mao but he decided to hang the boots up. So we missed out on something great. Vince actually called him back around the AE period for a return but Dan rejected and he said that he regretted it because he would've kept going since he was going to make a shit ton in the hottest period.

Sir_Crocodile said:
could you imagine the warrior doing a OWN style promo surrounded by the corp min lol

would he have had his special trapdoor
Click to expand...
Warrior could do it, he could get dark in his promos, imagine those lights being dimmed and him wearing all black. Man! He could've made something we'd still be talking about today. This eventually could've led to Taker turning on him for a match at WM 2000 if Taker didn't get hurt maybe.

But I just keep saying what if with Jackyl, when you go back and watch the whole thing from Dec-the reveal there are many plotholes that show Vince isn't the guy.
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Bluekaveli said:
Waylon was s few weeks away from his feud with Taker which would've been hot and put the character in the mao but he decided to hang the boots up. So we missed out on something great. Vince actually called him back around the AE period for a return but Dan rejected and he said that he regretted it because he would've kept going since he was going to make a shit ton in the hottest period.


Warrior could do it, he could get dark in his promos, imagine those lights being dimmed and him wearing all black. Man! He could've made something we'd still be talking about today. This eventually could've led to Taker turning on him for a match at WM 2000 if Taker didn't get hurt maybe.

But I just keep saying what if with Jackyl, when you go back and watch the whole thing from Dec-the reveal there are many plotholes that show Vince isn't the guy.
Click to expand...

The ministry is all about getting Vince to sign over the WWF to them. That's their end goal. That's why Shane makes a ton of sense. He doesn't legally stop Vince when he takes over the corporation, he only does it through violence. Shane wanting to be the big dog is all he talks about after he turns heel. With Shane as the higher power there are no plot holes.

Hell there aren't any plot holes if it is Stephanie or Linda either. Nor with any outsider. Just Vince. Him saving Austin at Backlash is the worst if this is just about getting back at him.
 
S

Sir_Crocodile

Member
Bluekaveli said:
Warrior could do it, he could get dark in his promos, imagine those lights being dimmed and him wearing all black. Man! He could've made something we'd still be talking about today. This eventually could've led to Taker turning on him for a match at WM 2000 if Taker didn't get hurt maybe.

But I just keep saying what if with Jackyl, when you go back and watch the whole thing from Dec-the reveal there are many plotholes that show Vince isn't the guy.
Click to expand...

Should have been Roman

that would have gotten him over
 
Z

Zach

Member
Recall said:
People still attended the shows, bought the merch, and watched the PPVs. Why would it need to make sense when money was still made and the reveal wouldnt have changed a thing?

1999 WWE worked. It did what it was supposed to. It made money.
Click to expand...

If it's profitable, it's beyond criticism.

How's your territory doing?

Etc. Etc.
 
B

BewareTheBatsie

Member
Randy's entertaining now, but I gotta wonder if he's gonna go back to phoning things in after Summerslam. I hope he doesn't, the teased feud with Bray could be fun.
 
B

Bluekaveli

Member
Man God said:
The ministry is all about getting Vince to sign over the WWF to them. That's their end goal. That's why Shane makes a ton of sense. He doesn't legally stop Vince when he takes over the corporation, he only does it through violence. Shane wanting to be the big dog is all he talks about after he turns heel. With Shane as the higher power there are no plot holes.

Hell there aren't any plot holes if it is Stephanie or Linda either. Nor with any outsider. Just Vince. Him saving Austin at Backlash is the worst if this is just about getting back at him.
Click to expand...
Yeah essentially I thought Shane was the higher power and it would've made way more sense than Vince. But when their plans backed off, you had to fill in someone and who better than Vince(Kanyon is better) to fill the void of the person who it was meant to be. Not really but you know how it all revolves around him anyone during that period.
 
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