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AusGAF 5/5 - Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy, a rental at best

I think most people get an idea of when they're being scammed. You know, deep down they know something isn't probably right and their money is being funnelled away.

If this is working for you Shaneus, and the results and measurable and tangible, then keep on going. It's at the point that you feel yourself going "Oh, yeah, I guess that X is Xer" that you need to look further.

I know (well, I hope so, anyway) that both Agyar and Danoss are only speaking from a position of concern for someone getting taken advantage of but they may not be speaking from a position of someone that's had to live with a condition / affliction / whathaveyou and has finally found something that's working for them when nothing else has.

Just because there isn't a wealth of information out there really doesn't determine the effectiveness of the procedure. Actually, whether or not there is supporting evidence of anything doesn't play a part in determining the legitimacy of it or people's opinion of it. Shit, there are still people out there that think immunisation is a scam. In fact, a lot of medical advances have had their adversity to being accepted and faced many naysayers.

I'm not willing to comment on if this is a respectable and true treatment but I'm not willing to say it isn't. At the point that you no longer feel improvement or have to search for improvement is the stage that you need to stop and research. In fact, researching more, even if you are feeling positive effects is a good idea.



PS- HAPPY BIRTHDAY GAZ!
 

Shaneus

Member
Today I learnt about Minecraft drama. Holy shit, internet. Simmer down.
What happened? I'm not big on Minecraft but I AM big on internet drama.

Edit: Cheers Jase. The best thing about it is that it's only a single-visit procedure with a follow-up two weeks later (included in the $250 price) to check on progress. Apparently as your body gets used to being in a more balanced state (as opposed to having your shoulders, hip and spine etc. out of whack) and your muscles return to how they should be on both sides of your body, changes can still be subtly felt months after that one visit. I can't comment on that yet, but given what I've gone through the once (seemingly) hyperbolic video and testimonials seem more and more realistic. It's that they make such initial claims that are more likely to be true than not that it makes people more (somewhat understandably) sceptical. But Jesus CHRIST I can't fucking stand it when people try to call me out on what I've personally experienced. I don't make a lot of statements of fact and am usually prepared to sway a little and take in both sides of a story in any argument, but when someone basically says something I've experienced is a lie, I won't fucking stand for it.
 

Danoss

Member
Ain't no placebo effect in my posture. Unless you've lived with standing/walking awkwardly your whole life you have no idea how much time you actually spend thinking about how you carry yourself until you don't have to do it. Take my word for it, or you can join the GFY club right over there with Agyar.

I've lived with back pain for a number of years, supposedly the specialist area of Chirpractors. Not one adjustment by them has relieved my back pain. As I said earlier, the massages relieved far more pain than they ever came close to doing, albeit temporarily.

Did you watch that Penn and Teller video? If not you missed how some Chiropractors claim they can cure Eczema, Down Syndrome, among other things. One Chiropractor said he performed an adjustment on a new-born baby, and in the video is performing a neck adjustment on a child!

I'm not trying to be argumentative man, this is general concern. Why are there more testimonials than there are scientific documents explaining the benefits of the procedure? Has there been testimonials saying "My Gall Bladder surgery really helped me, you should do it too!"? Think about what else uses testimonials, do you believe the rubbish they're selling?

I have also lived with ADD since I was a child. I was treated by the renowned Dr. Christopher Green, who did not believe medication was the solution. Not once did he recommend adjusting my neck, nor would he in a million years.
 
Shit, there are still people out there that think immunisation is a scam.
The sister-in-law refuses to give her kids tap water as apparently fluoride is poison when it is actually one of the main reasons I still have teeth and can eat steak.

Main thing is to make sure a procedure doesn't try and over reach itself. The procedure may not cure cancer but that doesn't mean it is hokey. My son had what seemed like a chest infection, the doctor shone a heat beam of some kind on his chest and for the rest of the day his cough was much nicer to listen to. I even remember going to the dentist a few years back and having some kind of Japanese dental paste put on a tooth with only light decay as a filling and the dentist didn't need to do any drilling or anything. Medicine isn't exactly a defined field.
 

justin.au

Member
What happened? I'm not big on Minecraft but I AM big on internet drama.
There was a Minecraft convention, (this is funny in itself), and some of invited panellists were allegedly rude. Cue twitter mudslinging and reddit tears and jeers.

Apparently the panellists essentially told a kid to 'fuck off' when asked for an autograph.

And everyone seems to hate the compère: a pink-haired 'gurl gamer'.

Oh, one other funny thing. There was an after-party organised. It was supposed to be at a normal club. Problem was that the club didn't let some convention goers in, preferring normal clubbers. Rejected from your own after-party.
 
Not once did he recommend adjusting my neck, nor would he in a million years.
Why?

By that last statement you're possibly implying many things. Either your doctor knows definitively that it doesn't work and isn't telling anyone; that he would never recommend a particular procedure regardless of evidence; sets his mind on appropriate responses to conditions and never changes his mind; that you would speak for a professional regardless of your lack of training or ability to legitimately judge this treatment.

I'm not having a go, nor am I saying this procedure is 100% legitimate, I just really didn't like that last sentence.
 

Jintor

Member
Awesome, so I'm not allowed to ask for advice here or else it's considered complaining. Time to put ausgaf on ignore.

AusGAF 1-5: Don't ask for advice, we'll tell you you're wrong.

You asked for advice, he gave you some (admittedly general) advice and instead of asking for specifics like an adult you belittled him for no apparent reason.
 

Shaneus

Member
I've lived with back pain for a number of years, supposedly the specialist area of Chirpractors. Not one adjustment by them has relieved my back pain. As I said earlier, the massages relieved far more pain than they ever came close to doing, albeit temporarily.
This is not a major adjustment, though. The vibrating device does so enough to massage the out-of-place disc back to where it should be, with no jarring sensations, physical pain or even mild discomfort.

It makes sense that you'd have ADD and have back problems, too, especially if the top vertebrae was perhaps put out of place at birth. The obvious thing to think would be that your spine is like an upside-down tree in that if something happens at the base of the trunk, effects will surely be felt all the way up.

Did you watch that Penn and Teller video? If not you missed how some Chiropractors claim they can cure Eczema, Down Syndrome, among other things. One Chiropractor said he performed an adjustment on a new-born baby, and in the video is performing a neck adjustment on a child!
Didn't watch it, but I can assume it was more focused on the back-cracking, neck-twisting, body-jarring chiropractor types. I can assure you that I didn't go through any of that at all.
The person I saw is actually a fully qualified kinesiologist as well. Doubt she'd bother practicing in this field with this method if she had her doubts about her patients health.

I'm not trying to be argumentative man, this is general concern. Why are there more testimonials than there are scientific documents explaining the benefits of the procedure? Has there been testimonials saying "My Gall Bladder surgery really helped me, you should do it too!"? Think about what else uses testimonials, do you believe the rubbish they're selling?
Check out that book I linked to on Amazon regarding it.
Also, scientific documents aren't necessarily the be-all and end-all of all treatments. I've seen great improvements with mindfulness training in regards to how I cope with ADD symptoms and lessen their impact on my life, but you're not likely to see many scientific documents on that, either.

I have also lived with ADD since I was a child. I was treated by the renowned Dr. Christopher Green, who did not believe medication was the solution. Not once did he recommend adjusting my neck, nor would he in a million years.
Medication is not the best solution for all people, but may be part of the solution for some. To say otherwise is almost completely ignoring the affects some of the drugs (in my case, dexamphetamine) have on the frontal lobe. Suffice to say, I fully expected that I'd have to take dex for the rest of my life to live with some normality, in conjunction with the mindfulness techniques I've learnt. Since last Friday, I can see there's a possibility that it may not have to be the case.
 

Danoss

Member
Chiropractics was created out of the belief that a misaligned spine was the cause of many ailments. Not based in science at all, it's because some guy just said it is.

Don't forget that Shaneus's doctor refused to go on the record about this recommendation and does not wish to be named. Don't you find this the slightest bit curious? Why would he wish to do this? If it was such a magnificent procedure, which he had complete faith in, why wouldn't he wish to spread the word on this? He could gain a lot of business if he did, right?

In the case of my child specialist, do you honestly believe a Pediatrician would recommend the adjustment of the spine of a child to remedy ADD? Bear in mind that a child's spine is still growing. I don't believe I should really have to defend this position, I thought it would be pretty obvious why.


It makes sense that you'd have ADD and have back problems, too, especially if the top vertebrae was perhaps put out of place at birth. The obvious thing to think would be that your spine is like an upside-down tree in that if something happens at the base of the trunk, effects will surely be felt all the way up.

They're not a result of the same thing. My back pain stems from a motorcycle accident.
 

Echoplx

Member
Man SR3 with the bloody mess cheat on is awesome, don't know how I played without it.

Also it's great seeing the full extent of the boob physics in this game with the nude mod

Yes I'm pathetic
 

Shaneus

Member
Don't forget that Shaneus's doctor refused to go on the record about this recommendation and does not wish to be named. Don't you find this the slightest bit curious? Why would he wish to do this? If it was such a magnificent procedure, which he had complete faith in, why wouldn't he wish to spread the word on this? He could gain a lot of business if he did, right?
What business would he be missing out on? He's not the one doing the procedure. He's more concerned that majority of the medical community are so rigid in their beliefs that if one of their own comes out to contemplate a new line of thinking, that many will try their best to discredit him... not only in regards to his personal experience with ADHD but with other aspects of his medical practice as well.

You're sounding really fucking bitter about this now. If you're not willing to accept the fact that this may have some positive benefits for people beyond lining the pockets of these greedy practitioners, then you might as well just stop because you're not going to convince me otherwise.

Reminds me a lot about the long running arguments about low-carb dieting. Some people are open to try different ways of changing their eating habits, others are too stuck in their ways to realise that low-fat, high-carb foods might actually be doing them more harm than good.

In the case of my child specialist, do you honestly believe a Pediatrician would recommend the adjustment of the spine of a child to remedy ADD? Bear in mind that a child's spine is still growing. I don't believe I should really have to defend this position, I thought it would be pretty obvious why.
I don't think I, in any instance, argued that manipulating children's spines was actually a good thing. If I did, I apologise as that was totally not my intention at all.

They're not a result of the same thing. My back pain stems from a motorcycle accident.
Apologies, I thought they were associated.
 
In the case of my child specialist, do you honestly believe a Pediatrician would recommend the adjustment of the spine of a child to remedy ADD? Bear in mind that a child's spine is still growing. I don't believe I should really have to defend this position, I thought it would be pretty obvious why.
It was more about you speaking for a medical professional than it was anything else.

Anyway, when it comes to medicine, the human body and to a greater extent, love, there is not always a rational explanation and at time any explanation for many things that we experience.

But, to follow your line of reasoning, treat me like an idiot. Why is it pretty obvious that they spine could not have an effect on the brain? You're argument seems to consist of "I don't believe I should have to defend my position" and that's all, all the while demanding proof from them.
 

Agyar

Member
The person I saw is actually a fully qualified kinesiologist as well. Doubt she'd bother practicing in this field with this method if she had her doubts about her patients health.

Is this meant to add weight to their medical qualifications? Because kinesiology is an even bigger load of bunk.
 
Lets liven this place up a bit! Happy AusGAF!
tumblr_lu6x9t1z1D1qdmv0so1_r1_500.gif
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
EatChildren. I wish to write a hard hitting article about JBhifi's change in staff hiring policies. Jambo, if you've been to the cbd jb recently you'll know what I mean.

There's some big questions that need answering. Who's shaking up the system? Who's cracking down on the bias for hot women hiring policy?

This is a wrong that must be protested.

If that is true I feel sorry for them for hiring this mug.
 

Fogz

Member
Man SR3 with the bloody mess cheat on is awesome, don't know how I played without it.

Also it's great seeing the full extent of the boob physics in this game with the nude mod

Yes I'm pathetic

Hm so where does one get these....modifications. I'm asking for a friend you see.
 
What business would he be missing out on? He's not the one doing the procedure. He's more concerned that majority of the medical community are so rigid in their beliefs that if one of their own comes out to contemplate a new line of thinking, that many will try their best to discredit him... not only in regards to his personal experience with ADHD but with other aspects of his medical practice as well.

You're sounding really fucking bitter about this now. If you're not willing to accept the fact that this may have some positive benefits for people beyond lining the pockets of these greedy practitioners, then you might as well just stop because you're not going to convince me otherwise.

Reminds me a lot about the long running arguments about low-carb dieting. Some people are open to try different ways of changing their eating habits, others are too stuck in their ways to realise that low-fat, high-carb foods might actually be doing them more harm than good.


I don't think I, in any instance, argued that manipulating children's spines was actually a good thing. If I did, I apologise as that was totally not my intention at all.


Apologies, I thought they were associated.

Shaneus this whole thing is starting to sound like a big conspiracy theory though, the doctor won't openly talk about this procedure because it may ruin his medical career? Obviously if there was evidence based, peer reviewed papers on this then he wouldn't have anything to worry about, but so far it looks like all we have are testimonials (that isn't to say they aren't true, but we shouldn't be basing current medical practices on this 'evidence'). You do obviously have an attachment to this procedure as you have spent $250 on the thing, some of us are trying to evaluate the current evidence objectively, you can't crack the shits because we're sceptical. Until there are hard medical facts about this procedure, some of us will view it with caution, just like Homeopathy, chiropractors and Reiki.
 

Fogz

Member
Cheers guys. Doesn't look like there are many mods yet at the site Reptile linked but it'll be a great game to mess about with once they get cracking :)
 

Danoss

Member
I don't think I, in any instance, argued that manipulating children's spines was actually a good thing. If I did, I apologise as that was totally not my intention at all.

That was for Planet_JASE.

As for everything else I've said, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. I'm trying to help you see for yourself. If you don't want to or can't see it, that's fine, it's not my money.


But, to follow your line of reasoning, treat me like an idiot. Why is it pretty obvious that they spine could not have an effect on the brain? You're argument seems to consist of "I don't believe I should have to defend my position" and that's all, all the while demanding proof from them.

Okay, I'll play. Lets try a simple one. A man's spine is severed, he is now a paraplegic. Which disorders and/or diseases (besides signals from the brain not reaching or being interpreted by the body) are associated with such a severe injury to the spine? Uhh... none that I'm aware of. I'm more than willing to be enlightened.

If some were to be believed, such a horrific injury to the spine would introduce a plethora of ailments, yet there are no recorded cases of any such thing that I have seen. I would be surprised to read "Spinal Injury Victim Develops Down Syndrome" or anything similar.

You know what I'm demanding proof of? Adjustments of the spine cure ailments unrelated to the spine itself. Since there is none at all, I think I can sit pretty comfortably in my position. I don't wholeheartedly believe the "absence of evidence isn't necessarily evidence of absence" thing when it comes to this.

I would put real money down that if Shaneus had an MRI on his brain showing the ADHD before the adjustment, it would still be visible afterwards. I'm pretty sure we would have heard "Cure for ADHD Discovered, it was Just a Slipped Disc!" some time ago. Alas, we haven't.


Is this meant to add weight to their medical qualifications? Because kinesiology is an even bigger load of bunk.

Yep.
 

Echoplx

Member
Cheers guys. Doesn't look like there are many mods yet at the site Reptile linked but it'll be a great game to mess about with once they get cracking :)

They're all basically working on the tools to get modding working atm, shouldn't be too long until we see some awesome mods. I can't wait for Gentlemen of Steelport.
 
I don't think Shaneus is claiming that his ADHD has been cured Danoss, just that it feels more manageable with the lower stress levels in his body after having his posture taken out of the 'feels bad' situation.

Anyway it is obvious that some people believe that some areas of medicine are as silly as religion.

Also it is sad that I already found out through work what the new Freo song was. I really need to find a new job.
 

Shaneus

Member
Is this meant to add weight to their medical qualifications? Because kinesiology is an even bigger load of bunk.
Applied kinesiology is a load of bunk. "Regular" kinesiology

Shaneus this whole thing is starting to sound like a big conspiracy theory though, the doctor won't openly talk about this procedure because it may ruin his medical career? Obviously if there was evidence based, peer reviewed papers on this then he wouldn't have anything to worry about, but so far it looks like all we have are testimonials (that isn't to say they aren't true, but we shouldn't be basing current medical practices on this 'evidence'). You do obviously have an attachment to this procedure as you have spent $250 on the thing, some of us are trying to evaluate the current evidence objectively, you can't crack the shits because we're sceptical. Until there are hard medical facts about this procedure, some of us will view it with caution, just like Homeopathy, chiropractors and Reiki.
From his anonymous blog that I linked to earlier. Hopefully it provides some insight:
Given the difficulties of bringing this material to the attention of my colleagues from within the established channels and journals I have decided to publish here both my experience as a patient and a summary of my subsequent clinical observations.

It is important for the reader to be aware that this material has not had extensive review from my peers within the medical profession. The material I present is, however, supported by evidence published from other sources, especially chiropractic sources. I will reference my sources as well as I can as I continue to elaborate on this blog.

The process of researching this material has overturned many of the old prejudices I had about chiropractic and other complementary practitioners. It has surprised me to see that, despite allegations to the contrary from within the medical profession, these other health professionals show a high level of regard for evidence based practice. There are, however substantial financial barriers to research that does not result in patentable products that will generate ongoing sources of profit. Given this proviso, much of the research referenced is small in scale, and some of the material included is in the form of individual case reviews. There are clear limitations with the latter sort of evidence especially, however, Sir William Osler, one of the greats of allopathic medicine did make his reputation on his observation of individual cases.

In the context of this controversy, the reader must consider the material presented for himself, and make his own evaluation of it.

Given these considerations, and the fact that the material I am presenting here is controversial within the medical profession I have chosen to remain anonymous. In time I will establish an email link for correspondence.
Also, I resent that it's thought I'm being so defensive about this is because I've dropped $250 on this. As someone who is wonderfully single and has little fiscal responsibilities, I can assure you that it couldn't be further from the truth.

The reason that I'm cracking the shits is not because people are skeptical, but are calling me out on physical changes that I've experienced first hand. If I say after I get some kind of treatment that something is noticably better and someone replies with "bullshit, you're wrong, where's the evidence?" how in the hell am I supposed to react? What I've gone through personally is being questioned and I'm basically being called a liar.

Question the theory behind what's happening, by all means. Do some research. But don't be skeptical just for the sake of it.

I'm more than happy to answer any questions on the procedure, treatment, information I've found in my travels (that I'm able to track down again) and any changes I've seen my body go through since last Friday arvo. I'm just disappointed that some people don't seem to be as open to new theories on how the body works than others.

Shaneus: Any tips for forza, haven't played the series since no.2.
About anything in particular? I'm all ears (and eyes, and fingers) :)

I don't think Shaneus is claiming that his ADHD has been cured Danoss, just that it feels more manageable with the lower stress levels in his body after having his posture taken out of the 'feels bad' situation.
Yuppers. My doc has basically travelled the path I'm hoping to go down. Get diagnosed -> take meds -> study/train in mindfulness techniques -> get atlas fixed -> eventually drop need for medication.
 

HolyCheck

I want a tag give me a tag
counting down the days til I can get shaneus' xbox ;_;

and skyrim

=D

then I have to travel overseas for a week ;_; and not play
 

Shaneus

Member
counting down the days til I can get shaneus' xbox ;_;

and skyrim

=D

then I have to travel overseas for a week ;_; and not play
When did you want it? I'm happy to give it to you if it means you can play it sooner and we can work out cash money later on down the line. It's not doing much sitting where it is right now, I'm sure it would prefer to sit lovingly in someone's home theatre cabinet instead ;)

I'm actually driving in next Tuesday so I can get my snake oil refilled for my follow-up meeting about my neck, that would be a perfect opportunity for me to bring something bulky into Melbourne. If you wanted it before then (say, for the weekend) I'd be happy to bring the bare minimum in on the train for you to be on your way before handing over all the extra stuff (box, additional cables etc.) at a later date.
 

HolyCheck

I want a tag give me a tag
When did you want it? I'm happy to give it to you if it means you can play it sooner and we can work out cash money later on down the line. It's not doing much sitting where it is right now, I'm sure it would prefer to sit lovingly in someone's home theatre cabinet instead ;)

I'm actually driving in next Tuesday so I can get my snake oil refilled for my follow-up meeting about my neck, that would be a perfect opportunity for me to bring something bulky into Melbourne. If you wanted it before then (say, for the weekend) I'd be happy to bring the bare minimum in for you to be on your way before handing over all the extra stuff (box, additional cables etc.).

next tuesday I have a conference to attend.. i'm not sure where it is actually!

what time will you be in and out? other than that I'm happy to wait for a time when it's easiest for you, a weekend will probably work for me, and if it means me catching a train to where ever the heck you are I don't mind!
 

Shaneus

Member
next tuesday I have a conference to attend.. i'm not sure where it is actually!

what time will you be in and out? other than that I'm happy to wait for a time when it's easiest for you, a weekend will probably work for me, and if it means me catching a train to where ever the heck you are I don't mind!
During the week is probably easiest for me as I don't have to make an extra trip into Melbourne. Can be either early arvo when I have lunch or after work, no biggie. I'd like to see you get it before the weekend so you can have a few spare days to enjoy it, otherwise I'm happy to bring it in Tuesday. Would most likely be during the same time... either after 5ish or around 1-2pm when I have lunch.

From here, I think we can safely take it to PM :)
 

Dead Man

Member
Man SR3 with the bloody mess cheat on is awesome, don't know how I played without it.

Also it's great seeing the full extent of the boob physics in this game with the nude mod

Yes I'm pathetic

If there ends up being a decent mod community for SR3, I will double dip for sure.
 

Dead Man

Member
http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/...mpaign-backfires/story-e6frfq80-1226202445747

IT probably seemed like a great idea in the marketing meeting. But a social media campaign in the midst of a bitter industrial battle spilling over to thousands of angry passengers has backfired for Qantas.

The airline posted a seemingly innocent tweet this morning using the hashtag #qantasluxury asking for entries to a competition with suggestions for a dream in-flight experience:

@QantasAirwaysTo enter tell us 'What is your dream luxury inflight experience? (Be creative!) Answer must include #QantasLuxury.TCs qantas.com.au/travel/airline…

Little did they know just how "creative" - and angry - the responses would be as Twitter users seized the opportunity to have their say in their hundreds.

While many of the tweets were sarcastic, most were from passengers unhappy with the state of the airline or who had experienced the disruption first-hand.

CjAqX.png


A Qantas spokesperson said a number of people had entered the competition, but also acknowledged many passengers were inconvenienced by the grounding.

"We launched the #qantasluxury competition as part of our ongoing social media strategy," a Qantas spokesperson said.

"The competition is giving away Qantas First Class pyjamas and amenity kits and a number of people have legitimately entered the competition.

"A large number of our customers were disrupted and inconvenienced by the recent industrial action and fleet grounding, however services have returned to normal and our customers can book flights with absolute confidence that they will not be disrupted by industrial action.”

It’s not the first time the airline has had a negative experience on Twitter. Qantas was forced to apologise last month for spamming its Twitter followers with weight loss advertisements after its account was hacked.

Yesterday the unions and Qantas failed to reach an agreement and are now headed for binding arbitration.

The Australian International Pilots Association, the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association and the Transport Workers Union were ordered to go before Fair Work Australia and end all industrial action after Qantas announced on October 29 it had grounded its entire fleet and threatened to lock out staff.

Qantas hired four full-time social media managers to keep tabs on what people were saying on Facebook and Twitter about the airline around the clock, it was revealed last week.

All I can say is... LOL
 

Shaneus

Member
At least we know what the link to Itagaki is now ;)
What exactly was his role in it? Only just remembered now about his cameo but given I'm only a (relatively) small way through it I haven't encountered him at all. Is it significant to the story or more like he's a shop owner or bum or something?

Edit: Love that Qantas story. Not even going to mention the article where Amanda Vanstone recommends Alan Joyce for Australian (or Victorian?) of the Year.
 

Choc

Banned
I got all those games already cause im not an uber turder!


No you're just a girl (without a mortgage) :p

PSP Vita AU launch titles announced by the way

Uncharted: Golden Abyss
WipEout 2048
Reality Fighters
Little Deviants
ModNation Racers: Road Trip
Everybody’s Golf
Escape Plan
Gravity Rush
Hustle Kings
MotorStorm RC
Top Darts
Super StarDust Delta


plus a bunch of Third Party games

Motorstorm RC is kinda cool
 
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