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[midonnay]

That time I said that Apple must be smarter than we think to not settle with the ACCC, they must be planning to make a good point? Turns out I was pretty wrong about that: http://www.zdnet.com.au/apple-seeks-to-redefine-3g-as-4g-339336283.htm



There is sort of a minor technical argument to be made that Telstra's current 4G implementation is not fast enough to be 4G. I don't really understand it, but you can read about it on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G#3GPP_Long_Term_Evolution_.28LTE.29 .

Apple seem to have gone right off the deep end and are claiming that Telstra's 3G implementation is actually 4G.

There is such a thing as having too much money.

Telstra kinda jumped the gun with LTE as they reallocated 2G spectrum rather than waiting for the analogue television signals to be turned off.

So apple does have a fair technical argument that Telstra's Lte isn't that much different to HSPA+

I guess they're banking that the courts will believe that Telstra's marketing has overselled their Next G network similar to what T-mobile did in America.

 

[Jintor]

Oh guys, by the way: Tribes Ascend is finally out of beta and it is fucking baller. When we've finished our Dota2 love affair we should go play that for a while.

 

[Fredescu]

So apple does have a fair technical argument that Telstra's Lte isn't that much different to HSPA+

I guess they're banking that the courts will believe that Telstra's marketing has overselled their Next G network similar to what T-mobile did in America.

That's backwards isn't it? The iPad only works with "3G" here. Apple are saying that our "3G" is basically "4G". Most people, yourself including, are saying that our "4G" is not really quite 4G. As far as I can tell, they're not making the argument you're stating, they're making the opposite one.

 

[FormallyMegadrive]

Oh guys, by the way: Tribes Ascend is finally out of beta and it is fucking baller. When we've finished our Dota2 love affair we should go play that for a while.

I have just made an account for it. I am so up for a better game than dota2.

Spoiler

donthurtmeplz

 

[Jintor]

is Kid Icarus worth it?

It's so worth it.

 

[Marshmellow]

I have just made an account for it. I am so up for a better game than dota2.

Spoiler

donthurtmeplz

Those be fighting words megadrive. I smell treason

I also have an account for tribes, will you teachmeplz Jintor?

 

[Jintor]

Honestly, once you learn to Ski in Tribes you're pretty much autonomous.

 

[evlcookie]

I know a few of us played the beta. I disliked it, kritz & aon loved it and i think rahk could have enjoyed it as well.

So you should be able to find a few who will play tribes.

 

[midonnay]

That's backwards isn't it? The iPad only works with "3G" here. Apple are saying that our "3G" is basically "4G". Most people, yourself including, are saying that our "4G" is not really quite 4G. As far as I can tell, they're not making the argument you're stating, they're making the opposite one.

but its besides the point.... Telstra markets lte as 4g

so does vividwireless even though they're barely better than some 3g networks.


I guess Apple is trying to argue 4g in australia (and in many other countries) are used as advertising puffery rather than a technical specification

 

[Fredescu]

but its besides the point.... Telstra markets lte as 4g

Apple: Everyone is 4G
Other people: No one is 4G

Only one of those positions is an argument for labelling a device as 4G that only works with networks marketed here as 3G. Telstra marketing their network as 4G makes Apples case weaker, not stronger.

 

[BananaArnie]

Please stop saying logs. Thats just confusing.

 

[reptilescorpio]

Nope, it shall become the used term eventually

but its besides the point.... Telstra markets lte as 4g

so does vividwireless even though they're barely better than some 3g networks.


I guess Apple is trying to argue 4g in australia (and in many other countries) are used as advertising puffery rather than a technical specification

Isn't the issue that people expect the ipad to work on our 4g network?

 

[Rahk]

I paid for Tribes to get in the closed beta, so yeah, I like it.

 

[codswallop]

Apple should stop throwing their money away on their legal team and set up the smallest 4G network they can while still being able to call it 4G. Probably cost less too.

 

[midonnay]

but telstra also sells their next g network as the best in the world reaching speeds of 42mbps

3g is not just 3g though

there has been many upgrades

eg: 1st gen 3g was only around 256k iirc

they may be arguing that the latest upgrade of 3g .....HSPA+ is technically 4th generation too because it has similar performance.

Isn't the issue that people expect the ipad to work on our 4g network?

but what is 4g?
'
if it is a technical specification, why isn't the ACCC going after Telstra or vividwireless?

if it is just marketing....

then why isn't hspa+ 4g too?

 

[Clipper]

So... Abbott is now essentially saying, "Vote for me and I'll make it so you will probably have to vote again 6 months later."

Is this really the sort of policy you want to bring into an election?

 

[Fredescu]

but telstra also sells their next g network as the best in the world reaching speeds of 42mbps

They consider their 4G network as part of the same Next G network. So you can get up to 20Mb in a 3G area and up to 40Mb in a 4G area.

 

[codswallop]

From http://www.itu.int/net/pressoffice/press_releases/2010/48.aspx:

Following a detailed evaluation against stringent technical and operational criteria, ITU has determined that “LTE-Advanced” and “WirelessMAN-Advanced” should be accorded the official designation of IMT-Advanced. As the most advanced technologies currently defined for global wireless mobile broadband communications, IMT-Advanced is considered as “4G”, although it is recognized that this term, while undefined, may also be applied to the forerunners of these technologies, LTE and WiMax, and to other evolved 3G technologies providing a substantial level of improvement in performance and capabilities with respect to the initial third generation systems now deployed. The detailed specifications of the IMT-Advanced technologies will be provided in a new ITU-R Recommendation expected in early 2012.

So ITU are saying that LTE/WiMax can be considered 4G, despite them technically not being 4G.

 

[Fredescu]

but what is 4g?
'
if it is a technical specification, why isn't the ACCC going after Telstra or vividwireless?

There is a technical argument to be made that Telstra's implementation is 4G technology, and it's at least a big upgrade.

if it is just marketing....

then why isn't hspa+ 4g too?

If it's just marketing, then it's not 4G too because no one here calls it that. Why is it ok for Apple to imply that the new iPad has faster network speeds than the previous iPads when the network carriers themselves don't claim it?

 

[Choc]

The thing is that unfortunately in the USA, Telstras HSDPA+ which the 4S and Ipad 3 use is considered '4G'.

Australia has true 4G speed and capability.

I feel sorry for Apple AU. They probably want to negotiate and end it, but Apple US won't let them

edit: 4G is LTE this is why you need special phones in Australia to use it.

The ipad 3 works on Optus, Telstra and Vodafone (albeit faster on telstra due to its HSDPA+).

It's not 4G in australia no matter what apple say.

 

[reptilescorpio]

but what is 4g?
'
if it is a technical specification, why isn't the ACCC going after Telstra or vividwireless?

if it is just marketing....

then why isn't hspa+ 4g too?

When it says 4G on the box and doesn't work on any advertised 4G network in Australia it is false advertising. If it just said 3G, or said 4G (outside Australia only) there wouldn't be a problem.

So... Abbott is now essentially saying, "Vote for me and I'll make it so you will probably have to vote again 6 months later."

Is this really the sort of policy you want to bring into an election?

I actually found it funny that Labor FINALLY found a scare campaign to run yesterday, with the oldies. Are old people still a strong voting force?

 

[Omikron]

So... Abbott is now essentially saying, "Vote for me and I'll make it so you will probably have to vote again 6 months later."

Is this really the sort of policy you want to bring into an election?

No chance.

 

[Choc]

No chance.

We could end up with the senate blocking again after double dissolution anyway.

It's happened before, the Australia card

and it leads to both houses sitting and voting together.

DIS GUNNA BE GUD

 

[midonnay]

vividwireless has a "4g" network that only reaches peak speeds of 20mbps if lucky.

if ACCC lets wimax be called 4g then why not hspa+ which according to telstra gets up to 42mbps?


ps: codswallop

may also be applied to the forerunners of these technologies, LTE and WiMax, and to other evolved 3G technologies providing a substantial level of improvement in performance and capabilities with respect to the initial third generation systems now deployed.

1st generation 3g was only 256kbps

"evolved 3g" = hspa+

so according to what you linked even the people in charge of technical specifications say hspa+ can be called 4g.

 

[Fogz]

I disliked it

Well there's a surprise!

 

[codswallop]

so according to what you linked even the people in charge of technical specifications say hspa+ can be called 4g.

Yeah, that's kind of my point. Apple may have a leg to stand on since the international body that defines the name "4G" says it can be pretty much anything that is substantially better than 3G, even if it's not really "4G". If HSDPA+ can be considered "4G", and it's available in Australia, then the iPad 3 can connect to a "4G" network, even though it may not be called that in Australia.

... or, wait ... HSPA+, not HSDPA+? Ah screw it I don't know what's what any more.

because it means optus and vodafone could p;otentially call their new networks 4G

According to the international body that defines the standards, they can already. Read my quote above.

 

[Choc]

if the federal court changes it based on Apple, Telstra will be furious. because it means optus and vodafone could p;otentially call their new networks 4G and telstra loses a huge advantage despite massive investment in infrastructure for marketing

the FC won't do it because it will cause ridiculous confusion in the marketplace.

The fact that when the ipad 3 connects to a '4G' network here, its not using the 4G fucking chip should be enough for them to be forced to change.

 

[evlcookie]

Well there's a surprise!

Hey, I know me disliking games is now old hat. I just wasn't feeling the sliding and shooting mechanic of tribes. I seem to prefer and enjoy having my feet on the ground moving at a normal pace.

At least I didn't say it was shit by design like normal

 

[Fredescu]

vividwireless has a "4g" network that only reaches peak speeds of 20mbps if lucky.

if ACCC lets wimax be called 4g then why not hspa+ which according to telstra gets up to 42mbps?

Maybe they're not big enough to go after.

I see your point now though. There is an argument for "everyone is 4G", even though the ACCC is going to win.

 

[Choc]

the reason why teh ACCC is after apple is the word 4G is in the product name

if they called it IPAD HD there would be no issue.

Vivid doesnt call it VIVID 4G

 

[Fredescu]

Vivid doesnt call it VIVID 4G

They do, it's plastered all over their page.

 

[codswallop]

the reason why teh ACCC is after apple is the word 4G is in the product name

Model name, not product name. Product is either "iPad" or "The new iPad". In any case, the website has been updated with: "This product supports very fast cellular networks. It is not compatible with current Australian 4G LTE networks and WiMAX networks."

Which I guess will get them out of trouble, so I don't even see why they're pursuing the whole thing further. Another case of Apple doing something brutish because they can.

 

[Choc]

The reason why the ACCC is going after apple so badly on this is the ACCC warned apple before the product came out not to do it.

and because apple won't do particular things the ACCC wants them to do.

yes model name sorry, not product.

 

[codswallop]

The reason why the ACCC is going after apple so badly on this is the ACCC warned apple before the product came out not to do it.

and because apple won't do particular things the ACCC wants them to do.

Frankly I hope Apple gets dragged over the coals for it, but there's so much grey area here that they probably think they have an out.

Video games! and weekends!
- Prince of Persia source for Apple II
- Going to play the hell out of Trials Evolution, The Witcher (1), Shadows of the Damned, and maybe Dota 2, Tribes Ascend this weekend

Spoiler

will probably manage half an hour of Trials Evolution and that'll be all

- Might have a crack at the Ghost Recon: Future Soldier since I guess I'm in the 360 multiplayer beta for that too

Spoiler

never played Tribes Ascend once despite being in the beta since November

.
- Oh shit, isn't it a free Gold weekend this weekend? Maybe I'll avoid multiplayer on Live.

 

[Choc]

the other reason Apple is fighting it is they are facing 5 charges and each charge carries 1.1 million dollar fine

 

[Box of Bunnies]

Video games! and weekends!

- Oh shit, isn't it a free Gold weekend this weekend? Maybe I'll avoid multiplayer on Live.

Not free Gold, just us Silver plebs being allowed to use entertainment apps for the weekend.

Review copy of Rhythm Thief arrived this morning, so that's my weekend.

 

[shanshan310]

Free teriyaki rice Burger at the opening of Brisbanes mosburger store. Whooooo. I have never seen such extravagant measures gone to open a store. Business men bowing, kimono clad ladies, music, an opening ceremony with ribbon cutting @_@

 

[evlcookie]

So Metlinkmelbourne has been renamed to PTV, I'm guessing it's now a govt thing or some shit. Along with that update they decided to pump out an iOS update which replaced the old metlink application with another ptv application.

It's fucking terrible.

Here is the iTunes link to this amazing application. Check out the reviews and star rating, it's amazing! http://itunes.apple.com/au/app/metlink-melbourne/id318696180?mt=8

What they did was take out everything that was useful about the application and replaced it with a google maps interface. You need to then, load up the map and wait for it to load, then figure out where you want to go, which of course requires more loading and select the small ass icon on the map. It's fucking terrible. There's no more lists of simply selecting which train stop to depart or arrive at.

The person who made this app needs to be punched in the face and have a pineapple shot up their ass.

 

[markot]

So Metlinkmelbourne has been renamed to PTV, I'm guessing it's now a govt thing or some shit. Along with that update they decided to pump out an iOS update which replaced the old metlink application with another ptv application.

It's fucking terrible.

Here is the iTunes link to this amazing application. Check out the reviews and star rating, it's amazing! http://itunes.apple.com/au/app/metlink-melbourne/id318696180?mt=8

What they did was take out everything that was useful about the application and replaced it with a google maps interface. You need to then, load up the map and wait for it to load, then figure out where you want to go, which of course requires more loading and select the small ass icon on the map. It's fucking terrible. There's no more lists of simply selecting which train stop to depart or arrive at.

The person who made this app needs to be punched in the face and have a pineapple shot up their ass.

It was a black woman with tetraplegia. You racist.

 

[Deeku]

Free teriyaki rice Burger at the opening of Brisbanes mosburger store. Whooooo. I have never seen such extravagant measures gone to open a store. Business men bowing, kimono clad ladies, music, an opening ceremony with ribbon cutting @_@

Just missing a celebrity or two.

They're all in qld><

 

[midonnay]

rice....burger?

what is this voodoo cookery....

 

[Jintor]

I forgot how good buying stuff feels. All I got was a small vacumn cleaner so I could clean out the car nicely and I feel great.

 

[FormallyMegadrive]

Just missing a celebrity or two.

They're all in qld><

Speaking of

Spoiler

pseudo-

celebrities. I saw Trevor Marmalade and Jimeoin at Cold Chisel last night and they were just standing in general admission, which was cool. No special treatment.

 

[Rahk]

Mosburger?! Jealous. Everyone from Brisbane go there and buy things so they branch out to Sydney!

 

[shanshan310]

They have rice squares instead of bread! With okonomiyaki, beef+ kimchi etc inside.

Mosburger?! Jealous. Everyone from Brisbane go there and buy things so they branch out to Sydney!

I will eat there everyday for you. In the meantime, everyone come up to Brisbane!

 

[markot]

Im so insult.

 

[Jintor]

Do any of you jerks know anything about Roku Box streaming in Australia?

 

[hamchan]

Fuck yes Mos Burger. Now I don't have to travel to Asia to eat it.

 

[legend166]

Do any of you jerks know anything about Roku Box streaming in Australia?

To stream Netflix?

Use Unblock-Us, easy.

 

[Jintor]

Well, anything really. Just have to VPN/unblock-US everything?

I wonder if you can get it to connect to iView and SBS OnDemand and stuff. Not that it would matter but whatevs.