Support NeoGAF

[Fredescu]

It makes sense that people shouldn't talk about the ending in reviews though. You don't send your game to the media to have them spoil it. I don't know how you can strike a balance between that and accurate reporting on games that have a notably terrible ending.

yeah but you wont get retail code early ever again

Not asking for details, but have you ever witnessed a blacklisting first hand? I know it happens, just wondering how common it is.

 

[Yagharek]

ok

The NDA specifically mentions you can't mention the ending

thats why the reviews DIDNT MENTION THE ENDING

hence, it was not reviewed, based on the ending.

just saying, thats why reviewers didnt shit all over, the ending

edit: if someone leaked the NDA onto the net, it would explain a lot of the reviews

An NDA is fine in any narrative work if (and only if) - ie iff it is there to benefit customers who get to experience it without being told who killed who in Harry Potter/who Luke's father is/what happened to Aeris at the end of disc 1, for example.

But it shouldnt, and I cannot imagine that it does - prevent reviewers and critics from rating the game based on their own experience.

Instead of writing "the game is great until the ending which is bad - 9/10" and risking breaking the NDA, they could simply say "the game's narrative does not meet the standard expected based on the previous installments, and this reviewer was not pleased with the overall story - 8/10".

The latter example in no way breaks an NDA unless the NDA is corrupt enough to say "you are not allowed to mention story at all unless you give it 10/10".

Although given games media-publisher nepotism, that's a plausible scenario too.

 

[Choc]

It makes sense that people shouldn't talk about the ending in reviews though. You don't send your game to the media to have them spoil it. I don't know how you can strike a balance between that and accurate reporting on games that have a notably terrible ending.


Not asking for details, but have you ever witnessed a blacklisting first hand? I know it happens, just wondering how common it is.

yes fred i have indeed, and had it threatened many times.

i have also seen not so subtle ones, and very subtle ones.

edit: vince what you said with the 8/10 does not break the NDA no but most agree that the game is incredibly good, until that final point.

thats the issue.

 

[Danoss]

It'd be nice if some places had the balls to stand up to them.

OR

Write an article about why they won't be reviewing games and mention the reasons.

That'll never happen though. Anyone who thinks the games industry is mature in any fashion is an idiot. Does this happen in the movie industry at all? Nope, if a movie is reviewed poorly, they cop it sweet it, just like shit games should.

 

[Fredescu]

Nope, if a movie is reviewed poorly, they cop it sweet it, just like shit games should.

Despite the ending, I kind of doubt that Mass Effect 3 is a shit game.

 

[Choc]

if a publication is big enough you can ignore NDAs


so if i was writing for lets say The Australian, or USA Today, or new York times,

i coul dbreak the nda and get away with it

 

[Danoss]

Despite the ending, I kind of doubt that Mass Effect 3 is a shit game.

I'm not noting any specific titles as yet, it's pretty general as ME3 is of course not the only title where strict review rules are being applied by publishers.

Movies with big twists at the end don't have them revealed by reviewers, they're not stupid. If they reveal the ending, they'll lose readers over it. If a reviewer is soured by something, they should have a right to mention what it was, within reason and scope of course.

Games publishers are trying really hard to have news outlets on a short leash. These news outlets are letting them.

VVV - I of course edited my reference to that game as that would have taken the topic off course. It was a crap game, but another (albeit rumoured) example of publishers getting closer than they should.

 

[Fredescu]

Kane and Lynch has a metascore in the 60s though, which in video game terms might as well be 1 star.

 

[Choc]

.

 

[senahorse]

Despite the ending, I kind of doubt that Mass Effect 3 is a shit game.

I think that is the most upsetting thing about all of this. The game is really good, and your choices throughout had a big impact on what was happening during the course of the game, despite this the ending will for a lot of people leave a sour taste in their mouths and tarnish what was by and large a great experience.

edit: reading that choc, it is ok to mention the ending being a disappointment without divulging what actually happened and thus being perfectly acceptable to dock a couple of points.

 

[Fredescu]

Interesting Choc. I know the PCPP review breaks the very first bullet point right off the bat. Haven't checked the others.

 

[shanshan310]

But gametrailers review complained about the ending of ME3....

 

[Yagharek]

It'd be nice if some places had the balls to stand up to them.

OR

Write an article about why they won't be reviewing games and mention the reasons.

That'll never happen though. Anyone who thinks the games industry is mature in any fashion is an idiot. Does this happen in the movie industry at all? Nope, if a movie is reviewed poorly, they cop it sweet it, just like shit games should.

So much truth in so few words.

I dont want my reviewers spoiling the ending but as others mention, what I do want is this:

* Individual opinion as to whether the reviewer enjoyed the story if applicable
* Direct references as to whether the game is technically bad/buggy/unplayable
* Allusions to it going batshit insane (in a "good" way) a la MGS2
* .... Or in a "bad" way a la MGS4
* If the publisher interfered and demanded a score greater than X, or ignoring severe technical flaws - THIS MUST BE DISCLOSED IN REVIEW TEXT
* If the publisher blacklists the reviewer, disclose this too and review retail code

If a review outlet holds enough trust with their readers, people will see the reviewer say something like "Hey readers, Bethesda wont send me a review copy of TES6 because of my Skyrim review mentioning all the bugs in the PS3 code. So I'll be reviewing the retail code next month once Ive had some time with it. Maybe you could wait until then if you're unsure whether to buy it."

The reader reaction amongst those who trust him would be like this:
"Hey, Bob wasnt allowed to review Elder Scrolls 6 pre-release because he complained about the PS3 version of Skyrim being buggy. I'll wait for his review before spending $100 again because the last game was a stinking pile of shit"

Then he reviews the retail game, and people either buy or avoid based on what is then perceived to be unbiased reviewing.

 

[Choc]

But gametrailers review complained about the ending of ME3....

they have a national tv show in the US


they could say COD MW4 is the worst game ever, and not get blacklisted

 

[Fredescu]

I think that is the most upsetting thing about all of this. The game is really good, and your choices throughout had a big impact on what was happening during the course of the game, despite this the ending will for a lot of people leave a sour taste in their mouths and tarnish what was by and large a great experience.

This TED talk makes some pretty interesting points about that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgRlrBl-7Yg

I've linked that on GAF so many times now.

 

[reptilescorpio]

Oh goodie, the Touchpad lasted 30 minutes before I had to power cycle the router again. This is going to be fun >_<

In regards to ME3 (spoiler)

Spoiler

Javik was a massive fuck up by Bioware and terribly done. The whole thing was undercooked and the biggest wasted opportunity of the whole series. The ONLY Prothean! They could have done so much with that idea yet it was relegated to DLC, and half arsed at that.

The second point is insane. The flow on between games is a HUGE part of why people are interested in the games.

 

[FallbackPants]

well the media actually is not supposed to be talking about the ending

the point

Spoiler

past where you attack the illusive mans base is banned from media discussion

last weeks bombcast shat on that tho haha


but yes defending it outside reviews is a bit stupid. Reptile, people always want justification why a ponit was dropped, like public people

if you cant tell them why, can you drop the point? this is the problem games media has

NO OTHER FUCKING MEDIA HAS NDA"S LIKE THIS. NONE, ZERO.

the NDAs they have is a publication date, not content.

In my experience NDAs generally just piss media off. For example, and I know this is very different because the it wasn't the journalist bound by it, one of the guys in my office wanted to do a story about the new iPads coming out. Nothing hard hitting, a standard picture story saying how excited people were for this.

He called up local JB Hifis etc to find out how excited people were about it and how many pre orders they had. he hit a complete brick wall. These guys weren't allowed to say a word about the iPad. Apple didn't return his calls, and the only details he could get from the official Apple store in Brisbane was that it definitely was coming out on the Friday.

The end result was, from him, the entire newsroom got a bad opinion of Apple's dealings and at least one guy went from 100% buying a new iPad to fuck it.

 

[shanshan310]

Trying to look at policies for QLD Labor and the LNP. =/ Its like hell. Labor's policies are laid out in blog form, with seemingly random updates on different policies and how the opposition sucks. I feel like not voting for them simply because of their horrible website layout.

 

[Choc]

Apple banned stores from taking preorders

 

[Deeku]

OH SHIT IM PLAYING EVERYBODY'S GOLF ONLINE AND KERRBY"S IN MY LOBBY:OOOOO

HE WROTE A COMMENT SAYING "MY GOAL IS TO COME!" LOL

 

[Fredescu]

I feel like not voting for them simply because of their horrible website layout.

My wife makes fun of me for choosing services based on how good their website is. "But it reflects on their *mumblemumble*!'' I have to admit it only seems to get a good result about 50% of the time.

 

[Choc]

fred

"all style, no substance" mean something to you?


but i'll admit i have rubbished companies based on web prescence

 

[Fredescu]

"all style, no substance" mean something to you?

50% of the time it does.

 

[FallbackPants]

Apple banned stores from taking preorders

Oh yeah I know, this guy didn't when he first asked, but they wouldn't even say that for fear of pissing off Apple.

 

[FormallyMegadrive]

Found out why there's very attractive ladies other lobby of my work building every Wednesday. There's a modeling school on level 2.

 

[shanshan310]

My wife makes fun of me for choosing services based on how good their website is. "But it reflects on their *mumblemumble*!'' I have to admit it only seems to get a good result about 50% of the time.

Well yeah, exactly. Plus if I can't figure out what their policies are I can't make an informed decision that they stand for what I'm looking for.

 

[Omikron]

Found out why there's very attractive ladies other lobby of my work building every Wednesday. There's a modeling school on level 2.

Errr so does my building :s

 

[FGMPR]

OH SHIT IM PLAYING EVERYBODY'S GOLF ONLINE AND KERRBY"S IN MY LOBBY:OOOOO

HE WROTE A COMMENT SAYING "MY GOAL IS TO COME!" LOL

lol, hello commander

 

[Deeku]

4 people in my random lobby golf tourney and two other people are from gaf lol

:/

^^^:O I have been found.

 

[Jintor]

The second point is insane. The flow on between games is a HUGE part of why people are interested in the games.

Remember that they were pushing ME3 as a great place for newcomers to enter the series (A total lie btw)

Choc, did you break the NDA by revealing the terms of the NDA? That's a fantastic clause I've seen in some (Arkham City had one for instance). I kinda doubt you were a signatory though

 

[Choc]

i signed nothing

 

[FormallyMegadrive]

Oh shit are you from my building.

Either that it every Melbourne office building has modeling agencies on their level 2. If you were in my building you may have seen me already. I wear geeky shit + hangover baby tshirt.

 

[Deeku]

Well that was weird.

What's a hangover baby tshirt

 

[markot]

 

[EatChildren]

Anybody want to buy a mint condition copy of Binary Domain for PS3? I bought it, played past the prologue (maybe chapter one), but won't bother now given the announcement of a PC release.

Happy to part with it for a $20 plus postage.

 

[FormallyMegadrive]

Yep, that exact shirt.

 

[Deeku]

But what is it supposed to mean??

 

[shanshan310]

But what is it supposed to mean??

I think its from the movie.

 

[hamchan]

Mass Effect 3 as a three course meal could be a mediocre entree, a great main meal, and a dessert that is just the chef coming out of the kitchen and shitting in your mouth.

 

[Deeku]

I think its from the movie.

Oh, that explains everything actually lol.

 

[Boken]

I just interviewed at the nicest place in the world.

Pity I screwed up

 

[Yagharek]

Share trading in Game in the UK has been suspended.

This is it. Bomba sale of an entire games retail company for a change. Zavvi next, please.

 

[Deeku]

I just interviewed at the nicest place in the world.

Pity I screwed up

Don't worry. Screwing up interviews makes you better for the next one!

 

[Yagharek]

Mass Effect 3 as a three course meal could be a mediocre entree, a great main meal, and a dessert that is just the chef coming out of the kitchen and shitting in your mouth.

I like this analogy.

Halo series:

A five Michelin Star entree, followed by a main course prepared by some Master Chef reject where the steak is cooked good but they take it away from you after two bites. The dessert course is the rest of the steak served again, only this time laced with arsenic.

 

[shanshan310]

I just interviewed at the nicest place in the world.

Pity I screwed up

Don't worry, the same thing happened to me last week ;.;

 

[FormallyMegadrive]

Mass Effect 3 as a three course meal could be a mediocre entree, a great main meal, and a dessert that is just the chef coming out of the kitchen and shitting in your mouth.

You shut your whore mouth. The best effects of mass were in the order they were releases.

Spoiler

I'm assuming 3 is shit.

 

[Omikron]

Oh shit are you from my building.

Either that it every Melbourne office building has modeling agencies on their level 2. If you were in my building you may have seen me already. I wear geeky shit + hangover baby tshirt.

Do you have a training place that opened on the ground floor?

 

[Rezbit]

Mass Effect 3 as a three course meal could be a mediocre entree, a great main meal, and a dessert that is just the chef coming out of the kitchen and shitting in your mouth.

Damn, so true. A fudge sundae, right in your mouth.

Why is it, after I have chopped a chili, I immediately get an itchy face and want to scratch it.

 

[EatChildren]

You shut your whore mouth. The best effects of mass were in the order they were releases.

Spoiler

I'm assuming 3 is shit.

Three is excellent, more so than it has any right to be, sans the lukewarm intro. Then it all goes to shit in the last ten minutes.

 

[Fredescu]

The best effects of mass were in the order they were releases.

He means the beginning, middle, and end of Mass Effect 3.