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[reptilescorpio]

West End Uniting Church runs a Big Questions philosophy group, it turns out.

"TOPIC: DO SCIENTIFIC FACTS MEAN ANYTHING ?"

Good luck with that one :lol

FAITH IS MAGICAL AND SHIT, YOU CAN FAITH UP ALL KINDS OF SHIT

FACT IS JUST A BIG OLD DIRTY FACT WITH YUCKY REALITY

FAITH WINS OUT OVER FACT

 

[markot]

So who would be able to tell me if this is a Nintendo-made Pro controller or third party

Its on the EB website but doesn't list a manufacturer



this is the nintendo one

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009O3WU2A/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Pro Controller U for Wii and Wii U - Classic
by InterWorks Unlimited, Inc.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

We're basically arguing about our own emotional reactions to news, so it's completely subjective, but for me the Wii's shitty online was like a racist uncle at christmas dinner complaining about "the blacks". It's like "hah that crazy old uncle". With the Wii U he's now ranting about "the blacks" in the middle of a crowded shopping centre. Sure he's done it before, but in this context it's much more shocking.


Third party for sure. Is that an infra red port?

I think the hue and cry over hardware-locked accounts is a bit overblown. Basically, I see it as a marginal feature that only an exceedingly tiny minority will ever actually use, however vocal and angry that minority may be. I have no problem with them piloting their online system with only a basic featureset and introducing the rest over time, provided they eventually do so.

After all, that's how Microsoft did it with Xbox Live. I remember complaints that 360's service started out in some ways worse than the mature service on the original Xbox.

There are a lot of problems with Nintendo's online approach, their update frequency, their connection latency, the lack of user-adjustable features as well as the actual investment they put into network bandwidth. I do think that it's a little premature to rake them over the coals over it, especially as they are still relatively new to the space.

Like I said, if in two years' time, we're still having this discussion, go nuts.

 

[senahorse]

But squirrel, they have had 6 years to work on this. All they had to do was combine feedback about the failings of the Wii online system with the pros and cons of the PS3 and 360 implementation. Now I don't expect them to release with feature parity with Xbox live, but it's like they aren't even trying or don't care. That said, at least they ditched the friend code system.

 

[jambo]

West End Uniting Church runs a Big Questions philosophy group, it turns out.

"TOPIC: DO SCIENTIFIC FACTS MEAN ANYTHING ?"

Good luck with that one :lol

All I have to say is

 

[Dead Man]

West End Uniting Church runs a Big Questions philosophy group, it turns out.

"TOPIC: DO SCIENTIFIC FACTS MEAN ANYTHING ?"

Good luck with that one :lol

Unless they are going for some high level epistemology, that is absurd. And even then, high level epistemology is inherently absurd.

 

[Fredescu]

I think the hue and cry over hardware-locked accounts is a bit overblown. Basically, I see it as a marginal feature that only an exceedingly tiny minority will ever actually use, however vocal and angry that minority may be. I have no problem with them piloting their online system with only a basic featureset and introducing the rest over time, provided they eventually do so.

Whether someone actually uses an accounts portability is irrelevant. It's the feeling of having control over your purchase once you make it that is important. If account based ownership is really on the to do list, they should say so. Even if they do rectify it, the featureset at launch tends to stick with the devices reputation. At best, it's poor marketing. At worst, it's a complete misunderstanding of digital marketplaces.

 

[Dead Man]

I think the hue and cry over hardware-locked accounts is a bit overblown. Basically, I see it as a marginal feature that only an exceedingly tiny minority will ever actually use, however vocal and angry that minority may be. I have no problem with them piloting their online system with only a basic featureset and introducing the rest over time, provided they eventually do so.

After all, that's how Microsoft did it with Xbox Live. I remember complaints that 360's service started out in some ways worse than the mature service on the original Xbox.

There are a lot of problems with Nintendo's online approach, their update frequency, their connection latency, the lack of user-adjustable features as well as the actual investment they put into network bandwidth. I do think that it's a little premature to rake them over the coals over it, especially as they are still relatively new to the space.

Like I said, if in two years' time, we're still having this discussion, go nuts.

Unless of course someone steal your console, it has the reliability of an early 360, or they release a revision you want to update to. Having NO way to transfer an account is about the worst design decision they could have made.

 

[Jintor]

I made a salad. Rocket, lettuce, carrot, mushrooms, olive oil, shredded roast chicken, mayo, mozarella. Delicious.

 

[Fredescu]

I thought this was a good article about RuddBull: http://www.nationaltimes.com.au/opi...h-about-state-of-politics-20121120-29n9i.html

Mostly this bit:

The question is actually this: Why don't we like or connect with any of the current national leadership options? Where has the political centre gone, who took it and why did they take it? Is it ever coming back?

Why do people spend more time posturing and hurling soundbites in fluoro vests and hard hats than actually connecting with me?

Politics has disappeared into its own unsettling fog of contention and counter-contention. In that slightly surreal atmosphere, BullRudds roam in mythical paddocks, making it all real again.

 

[ClivePwned]

Third party for sure. Is that an infra red port?

thought so. It is cooler looking than the nintendo one but I've never been impressed by third party controllers. Apart from the Wii-mote I have that looks like a sonic screwdriver.

 

[jambo]

I think the hue and cry over hardware-locked accounts is a bit overblown. Basically, I see it as a marginal feature that only an exceedingly tiny minority will ever actually use, however vocal and angry that minority may be.

I actually use it quite a lot. We have 2 PS3s at home and I have my account on both of them. I also sign on to my friends 360s using my LIVE account to access arcade games or classics if we want to play them without buying them again.

Plus what happens if you Wii U has issues or you sell it and buy a new one? Nintendo Support currently have no way of transferring your ID to a new console. That's a pretty terrible set up.

After all, that's how Microsoft did it with Xbox Live. I remember complaints that 360's service started out in some ways worse than the mature service on the original Xbox.

Xbox Live (and PSN) came out a long time ago now, so Nintendo has had plenty of time to work on a comparable online system to the current ones, not one that's stuck in 2005.

 

[Fredescu]

Apart from the Wii-mote I have that looks like a sonic screwdriver.

I've been tempted to buy that one myself and I'm not even much of a Dr Who fan.

 

[senahorse]

I thought this was a good article about RuddBull: http://www.nationaltimes.com.au/opi...h-about-state-of-politics-20121120-29n9i.html

Mostly this bit:

There have been a number of good articles on this today. It's not far fetched that if (they never will) they did join forces and form an independent party, they would get a great deal of support from the public.

 

[Salazar]

I made a salad. Rocket, lettuce, carrot, mushrooms, olive oil, shredded roast chicken, mayo, mozarella.

Keep these, add some bread. The rest is filler.

 

[reptilescorpio]

And toast it Jintor/Sal.

When my best mate comes down from Geelong he brings a USB with his 360 profile and savegames so we can play co-op stuff. Can you do that on the WiiU?

 

[Jintor]

I eat too much carbs as it is.

 

[Dead Man]

I thought this was a good article about RuddBull: http://www.nationaltimes.com.au/opi...h-about-state-of-politics-20121120-29n9i.html

Mostly this bit:

It's okay, but everyone is in the political centre at the moment. Centre right if you want to be picky, but that's why they do all the stupid stunts, because they have no actual ideals beyond vague platitudes. It is almost as bad as the US now, with parties opposing things just because the other party proposed them, even if it was their own idea to begin with. There is nothing but centre in mainstream Australian politics.

 

[Jintor]

At least our mainstream is more sensible than the yank's mainstream.

 

[Fredescu]

Centre right if you want to be picky

I do want to be picky, because there's no one that wants to tax and spend anymore. We had a very brief glimpse of it with the NBN and Ruddbucks but now it's all "Look at my surplus, I can be like Howard too."

 

[Ventron]

I thought this was a good article about RuddBull: http://www.nationaltimes.com.au/opi...h-about-state-of-politics-20121120-29n9i.html

Why do people spend more time posturing and hurling soundbites in fluoro vests and hard hats than actually connecting with me?

Because only a few seconds of what they say will make the news if they're lucky. Because they can easily be taken out of context to create a "scandal". Because they don't want to say or do anything that commentators can say is "sexist". Because news directors think policy is boring, so it won't make the news unless it somehow creates drama. Because the fluoro vests make footage interesting enough for the popular trash that is the 6:00 news. Because most voters don't have time to do their own research, they rely on the news, so the politicians have to play along with the media in order to get their message across. Basically, because of you in the media.

/rant

Sorry, have to get that off my chest. It makes me so angry to hear "why are politicians so shallow?" coming from the very people who force them to be shallow.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

But squirrel, they have had 6 years to work on this. All they had to do was combine feedback about the failings of the Wii online system with the pros and cons of the PS3 and 360 implementation. Now I don't expect them to release with feature parity with Xbox live, but it's like they aren't even trying or don't care. That said, at least they ditched the friend code system.

The Wii's online infrastructure basically wasn't. It was an ad-hoc, game specific thing and the online store ran on an HTML interface. WiiWare, for instance, was clearly never in the offing when the console was designed or the system would have shipped with larger on board memory capacity and fridge cleaning would never have been a problem.

We're talking about implementing a system that's an order of magnitude above what they had to deal with previously. Six years to plan they may have had, but six years of experience in delivering online services on that scale they do not.

Whether someone actually uses an accounts portability is irrelevant. It's the feeling of having control over your purchase once you make it that is important. If account based ownership is really on the to do list, they should say so. Even if they do rectify it, the featureset at launch tends to stick with the devices reputation. At best, it's poor marketing. At worst, it's a complete misunderstanding of digital marketplaces.

Nintendo's messaging regarding future plans is always cagey, even when they're planning something good. If it's poor marketing, then that's on them.

I would never accuse Nintendo of being PR wizards.

Unless of course someone steal your console, it has the reliability of an early 360, or they release a revision you want to update to. Having NO way to transfer an account is about the worst design decision they could have made.

This is true. Provided it was a design decision and not one motivated by hard release dates.

I think a transfer solution is coming. Remember the 3DS? It too clearly wasn't ready for its launch - no transfer tool was available in March last year either. Even worse, no eShop at launch.

Launch dates are driven by maximizing shareholder value and in that context, delays are simply unacceptable, whether the product is ready or not. With software-run hardware, you at least have the option of fixing things post-launch.

Look, I'm not saying it isn't a complete dog's breakfast of a launch, because it is. I'm saying put down the pitchforks and wait. Some of the things people are complaining about now won't be issues in a few months' time. Those that are, however, not the product of a rushed launch and OS development delays but rather a deliberate decision by Nintendo that screws the customer over (like region locking), will make themselves clear then.

 

[Omikron]

To me it just seems like Nintendo continue to fail to learn from past mistakes regarding their online choices. Either by being completely naive or inept. Take your pick.

 

[Fredescu]

It's okay, but everyone is in the political centre at the moment. Centre right if you want to be picky, but that's why they do all the stupid stunts, because they have no actual ideals beyond vague platitudes. It is almost as bad as the US now, with parties opposing things just because the other party proposed them, even if it was their own idea to begin with. There is nothing but centre in mainstream Australian politics.

Also, I've been thinking that we've been moving to the right because the hard idealists on that side are really unproven. Communism doesn't work, and can actually be really messy, so the far far lefts ideal is dead and most modern lefties will accept that the market has a place in the world. Fairness for workers and equitable access to health services and such are actually really complex things to implement (and, especially, sell to an electorate)

On the right, it's really the Rand (et al) style ideals that are taking hold. The Tea Party in the US is a result of that and helping to popularise it. It's all about simple solutions and no compromise. Get rid of the government (to certain degrees) and everything will just work, it's all the governments fault. Simple ideas are very easy to sell! No one wants to hear that shit is complex and idealism just makes things worse. We haven't had any actual laissez faire examples of government resulting in the inevitable death and torment to prove them wrong too. Unfortunately I think that's what it's going to take.

There won't be reasonable politics in our life time. Not until it's obvious that neither extreme really works.

Because only a few seconds of what they say will make the news if they're lucky. Because they can easily be taken out of context to create a "scandal". Because they don't want to say or do anything that commentators can say is "sexist". Because news directors think policy is boring, so it won't make the news unless it somehow creates drama. Because the fluoro vests make footage interesting enough for the popular trash that is the 6:00 news. Because most voters don't have time to do their own research, they rely on the news, so the politicians have to play along with the media in order to get their message across. Basically, because of you in the media.

/rant

Sorry, have to get that off my chest. It makes me so angry to hear "why are politicians so shallow?" coming from the very people who force them to be shallow.

I don't think it's 100% on the media. It's a cycle. The media covers what sells. How do you change that?

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Inept. Simple as that.

Setting up any large system, even one that is predicated on already solved problems, takes a huge amount of time and resources. Things will go wrong when you bring the system online and a lot of them will be problems that never came up during testing or planning. This is as true on an oil refinery as it is on something like the NiN (stupid name btw).

 

[Ventron]

To me it just seems like Nintendo continue to fail to learn from past mistakes regarding their online choices. Either by being completely naive or inept. Take your pick.

I think the Miiverse and video chat look pretty good. But yeah, like Sony once was, Nintendo have a long way to go because they're building an OS from scratch. Microsoft had so many libraries to use that it wasn't that hard for them to build a competent online service.

 

[teekun]

I think a transfer solution is coming. Remember the 3DS? It too clearly wasn't ready for its launch - no transfer tool was available in March last year either. Even worse, no eShop at launch.

Launch dates are driven by maximizing shareholder value and in that context, delays are simply unacceptable, whether the product is ready or not. With software-run hardware, you at least have the option of fixing things post-launch.

Look, I'm not saying it isn't a complete dog's breakfast of a launch, because it is. I'm saying put down the pitchforks and wait. Some of the things people are complaining about now won't be issues in a few months' time. Those that are, however, not the product of a rushed launch and OS development delays but rather a deliberate decision by Nintendo that screws the customer over (like region locking), will make themselves clear then.

I suspect what we'll end up with is something exactly like the 3DS. People seem to be expecting 360 or PS3 functionality where you can log into your account on any piece of hardware, and I don't see that ever happening. Nintendo hasn't put out a console yet that can do that, and they don't seem particularly interested in doing it either.

Will there be a system transfer at some point, though? There would have to be. Why put it on the 3DS and not on the next system? It seems to me like they wanted to rush this thing out in time for Christmas, and had to leave some functionality unfinished in order to do so.

 

[codswallop]

Communism doesn't work

Saw this recently, thought it was interesting.

In China, a Place Where Maoism Still Reigns
The Last Maoist Village in China

 

[senahorse]

We're talking about implementing a system that's an order of magnitude above what they had to deal with previously. Six years to plan they may have had, but six years of experience in delivering online services on that scale they do not.

Fair point, I do wonder though if their enormous success has allowed the luxury (arrogance?) to not address all of this in a more thorough manner.

 

[Fredescu]

Saw this recently, thought it was interesting.

In China, a Place Where Maoism Still Reigns
The Last Maoist Village in China

I asked Wang what he thought of Stalin. “Nobody is perfect,” he replied. “Even saints make mistakes.”

Nobody's perfect, some people kill millions of people!

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Fair point, I do wonder though if their enormous success has allowed the luxury (arrogance?) to not address all of this in a more thorough manner.

The realities of a Cristmas launch period force them to, I think. The calculation I think is that unhappy customers will eventually be mollified and won't poison the well against them.

 

[FormallyMegadrive]

Everyone with a decent PC should buy this. Even if you don't like 3rd person shooters it is great to experience a video game that questioned its reason for existing as a video game and creating something that actually leverages the medium rather than just throwing together something that could have been done as a book/movie/tv show. Love how it all ties in with the questions you raise completely seperate to the actual content itself, more about what and why they did what they did.

I bought this purely on that suggestion. If it sucks, I am coming for you reptile.

 

[Fredescu]

 

[BananaArnie]

I think Turnbull is winning that particular battle.

Now is he pro nintendo or con.
i forget

also fuck it, ill be the first and take the plunge
NEW AVATAR TIME
<<<<<<<

 

[Fredescu]

Now is he pro nintendo or con.
i forget

He's ok with slower internet, so definitely pro Nintendo.

 

[BananaArnie]

He's ok with slower internet, so definitely pro Nintendo.

now im conflicted
id like faster internet
but
KIRBY SOO CUUUTE ><

 

[jambo]

'Tis the season!

 

[Kritz]

It isn't until I've now arrived home I notice the difference between "I don't feel bad at all" in a post surgery hospital bed to how I actually feel.

How I actually feel is... bleeding. And stinky.

And for some reason I actually want a Wii U.

 

[markot]

It isn't until I've now arrived home I notice the difference between "I don't feel bad at all" in a post surgery hospital bed to how I actually feel.

How I actually feel is... bleeding. And stinky.

And for some reason I actually want a Wii U.

Delusional?! Go back to hospital asap!

 

[jambo]

Totally not stolen from megadrive...

 

[pieatorium]

Trains are totally different

 

[senahorse]

It isn't until I've now arrived home I notice the difference between "I don't feel bad at all" in a post surgery hospital bed to how I actually feel.

How I actually feel is... bleeding. And stinky.

And for some reason I actually want a Wii U.

Is this like the time you wanted a 3DS?

 

[Fredescu]

Is this like the time you wanted a 3DS?

Or Fable 3?

 

[evlcookie]

Glad i'm able to stare at them from both the train and my bus.

My love life exceeds that guys.

 

[Kritz]

Is this like the time you wanted a 3DS?

I never wanted a 3DS

I just happened to own one the day it released.

 

[FormallyMegadrive]

Totally not stolen from megadrive...

I was going to complain you didnt even mention it on irc, but then i saw you did. its ok, i stole it from reddit, who probably stole it from tumblr who stole it from 9gag who stole it from reddit.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

You appear to approach Nintendo stuff the same way I approach Sony handhelds. All likelihood is I won't enjoy it, but I want it anyway.

I miss my PSP sometimes.

 

[Shaneus]

So, does anyone want to try buying Spec Ops on GMG for me @ $6? It's being a fucking cunt and frustrating me no end.

 

[markot]

So, does anyone want to try buying Spec Ops on GMG for me @ $6? It's being a fucking cunt and frustrating me no end.

Bought it this morning no problo rob lowe.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I wasn't surprised in the least, to be honest. It's launch. It was always going to be really shitty.

It's 2012. Modern engineers have long since worked out how to tie digital purchases to an account. It isn't like this is some technical hurdle that they just couldn't crack. It was a decision made by someone early on that was not only incredibly poor and entirely baffling, but also indicative of an ignorance toward the (western) digital marketplace.

The raised pitchforks are entirely justified. As consumers we have a right to demand more. Denying you access to your games on an account level is the equivalent, in 2012, to linking a game disc to a console after first play. Outrageous and embarrassing. We don't live in 2006 anymore. They've had years to watch the marketplace develop.