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AusGAF 7 - We hang out IRL now and be social and shit. (Also, Adrian's Revenge)

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Investment vs Perceived Return.

If I see a hardcover comic collection, for example, I don't really want to be spending much more than I would for a hardcover through Amazon. I'll pay extra, of course, for the fact that it's slightly limited, has a sketch, signed, etc, but that only really adds $10-$15 more of perceived value.

So, for a 128 page hardcover comic, signed/sketched/urinated on by the artist, I would be comfortable with about $50. Once you factor in the exorbitant international shipping costs of most Kickstarters, it means I'm shelling out $70-$80 which is too much, but it's supporting someone in doing something in which they are passionate.

If you don't want to go to the added expense or trouble in shirts/buttons/fridge magnets/belly button fluff/stickers, then signing/numbering/sketching is a god value add which doesn't cost you anything (apart from your time).

Also, I have to like the person that I'm supporting.






I like you.
 
God particles do well on Kickstarter confirmed

Also if you sell a book with pages worth $128 that low I will also take a copy dear sir!

Also my future wife just walked in with a hot Milo for me :)
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
Oh man a Milo would be so good right now.

The complete non-reaction to Quantum Conundrum by the gaming press has been, shall we say, a conumdrum. I guess I thought a new Kim Swift game would have been a bigger deal?

Speaking of books (Did someone say BOOKS? Yes I think someone said BOOKS) I'm considering doing a kickstarter for the next one. People who have contributed to Kickstarters - what's your tipping point to get you to go in for one?

the lack of buzz surrounding the game feels like a complete PR failure to me. People don't know it exists/what it is.
 

Clipper

Member
I remember something I heard during the Double Fine Kickstarter that you need to be a US resident at the moment to put one up. Is that not the case any more?

Edit: and I see Danoss already beat me to it.
 
So Microsoft are raking in $200k a day in order to make me too fucking frustrated to find games to buy on the Dashboard which in turn hurts the developers/publishers. MS don't give a fuck since they are making big bank on the ads. First 3 years of the generation I was constantly buying XBLA games. The last 3 years all I have bought are PSN and Steam games. AND THIS IS FROM SOMEONE WHO IS ADMITTEDLY ADDICTED TO CHEEVOS!

I don't mind the ads. Just make the fucking thing easier to get to the video game content available to buy, even the PSN is tons easier.

Just thought I'd pop in to say hi.

Not sure how long I'll be able to stick around, it seems my graphics card is on the way out and I'm not in a position to replace it. Once that's toast, that'll be the end of the road for me.
Yay! Nice to see you again man.

Also, reptile are you getting (or did you get) those glasses?
Nope too rich for my blood. Hopefully make it a Xmas present if I can swing the cash for it. Will depend on us finding a new place to rent really.

The complete non-reaction to Quantum Conundrum by the gaming press has been, shall we say, a conumdrum. I guess I thought a new Kim Swift game would have been a bigger deal?
All the games press people I follow on Twitter have said it is okay, not fantastic or anything. Considering the little amount of hype that was focused on the fact it was by one of the original Portal team people were probably expecting more. Might pick it up in a Steam sale.
 

Danoss

Member
I hope I don't jinx the whole situation by typing this out.

I opened up my case and used my rocket blower that I reserve for my photography equipment inside my PC case and very liberally on my graphics card, especially around the fan assembly and heat pipes. I've also grabbed MSI Afterburner and created an automated fan control to keep the temperature down. It's holding at the moment with the temperature staying low and no artifacts or issues present, but it's early days yet.

Fingers crossed.
 

Clipper

Member
It does sound hopeful, Danoss. It very well could have been the dust causing a short or something. Hopefully not permanently damaged.

Oh, and I should mention that because iiNet was screwed last night so that I couldn't risk wasting what little bandwidth I had on my phone, I might be good for a game of Roll20 Discworld: Ankh Morpork later today or tonight if anyone's interested... Name a time if you want a go.
 
Definitely sounded like Danoss' video card is on the way out. I had a Matrox one years ago that did the same thing. It worked OK for maybe a year after it begun the artifacts but got too much for me eventually. However getting to 80+ seems a bit high to me so perhaps cleaning it out is all it needed!

Read that PA Report article last night about Microsoft's ad revenue. 1.9c per view minimum is ridiculous. Glad I boot straight into games and buy anything via their website. I never see the ads at all and encourage anyone who uses it primarily as a gaming machine to do the same. Then again, maybe they'd just get more aggressive with their ads.

Kickstarter is not available to use in Australia, but Pozible certainly is. Kickstart is now just a generic term. I'll take this moment to remind people of Kickstart.
 

Danoss

Member
Definitely sounded like Danoss' video card is on the way out. I had a Matrox one years ago that did the same thing. It worked OK for maybe a year after it begun the artifacts but got too much for me eventually. However getting to 80+ seems a bit high to me so perhaps cleaning it out is all it needed!

I hope so too man. It's sitting at around 60°C in-game at the moment, so that's a marked improvement already.

Thanks for the kind and thoughtful offers from you and others, they definitely weren't glossed over and are very much appreciated.
 

Gazunta

Member
Did Kickstarter open up to non-US citizens?

Ah thanks Danoss (and Clipper!) I forgot that - I would probably just use Pozible or IndieGoGo. Absolutely infuriating that KickStarter isn't available in Australia but I'm still holding out hope - they just opened it to UK residents.

Investment vs Perceived Return.

If I see a hardcover comic collection, for example, I don't really want to be spending much more than I would for a hardcover through Amazon. I'll pay extra, of course, for the fact that it's slightly limited, has a sketch, signed, etc, but that only really adds $10-$15 more of perceived value.

So, for a 128 page hardcover comic, signed/sketched/urinated on by the artist, I would be comfortable with about $50. Once you factor in the exorbitant international shipping costs of most Kickstarters, it means I'm shelling out $70-$80 which is too much, but it's supporting someone in doing something in which they are passionate.

If you don't want to go to the added expense or trouble in shirts/buttons/fridge magnets/belly button fluff/stickers, then signing/numbering/sketching is a god value add which doesn't cost you anything (apart from your time).

Also, I have to like the person that I'm supporting.






I like you.

That's really useful data, thanks :) I'm really not interested in making stuff that ISN'T the actual comic - though I am thinking of having tiers that get your face into the background or a game you suggest featured.

and thanks :)

God particles do well on Kickstarter confirmed

Also if you sell a book with pages worth $128 that low I will also take a copy dear sir!

Also my future wife just walked in with a hot Milo for me :)

Marry that girl! And thanks for the data.

For what it's worth, I've backed...four? five? Kickstarters in the past year. Most of them I just contributed what I would be paying for the product anyway so I just considered it a pre-order. Most recently I paid well above the minimum to get goodies, but only because it was from my favourite comic artist of all time and I couldn't resist. I really want to make this an 'impulse' purchase as much as possible.

Hmm. Gonna have to give this some thought. I hadn't considered a hardcover until now!
 
Gaz, I think that exclusives that are only available through a Kickstarter are the way to go. Make a run of 100 or 1000 books with custom covers that are only available in the Kickstarter (maybe list all the backers on the inside cover?). As suggested, hardcovers, signatures, small custom drawings etc are all ways to add value. Besides, doing hardcovers and custom covers isn't so bad because the people are already paying for them!
 
Ah thanks Danoss (and Clipper!) I forgot that - I would probably just use Pozible or IndieGoGo. Absolutely infuriating that KickStarter isn't available in Australia but I'm still holding out hope - they just opened it to UK residents.

Can Demi help or is that like giving the keys to your car to a valet-parking guy who moonlights at a chop shop?
 
For what it's worth, I've backed...four? five? Kickstarters in the past year. Most of them I just contributed what I would be paying for the product anyway so I just considered it a pre-order. Most recently I paid well above the minimum to get goodies, but only because it was from my favourite comic artist of all time and I couldn't resist. I really want to make this an 'impulse' purchase as much as possible.

Hmm. Gonna have to give this some thought. I hadn't considered a hardcover until now!

Hardcover all the way! Make it cool and flashy. Even fake Kickstarters can bring in a ton of backers just from making it look super professional and fancy.

Do you have any cool stuff from the game industry you could offer up as swag at higher tiers? Obviously not promo stuff, more like cool stuff you made while at Krome that would be considered your property that would be tempting to grab for someone who loved those games and loves your comics.

Also the $1 pledge should be for a Gazatar!
 
Brisgaf, probably should have mentioned it earlier but there is a French festival happening in South Bank today. I for one am looking forward to delicious crepes, hopefully one that contains cheese.
 

Clipper

Member
SydGAF Board Gamers, Choc can't make the 22nd any more and has suggested the weekend of the 28th and 29th for the next meetup. How are these dates with everybody else? Do we want to do two meetups if GoT arrives in time?

Also, for the broader SydGAF, Fogz was thinking of maybe coming by for a full meetup. If we do the games on the Saturday, we can do a dinner/drinks meetup with everybody else on Saturday night. Who is interested and available for that if it happens?

As for me, I'm available to do all of the above, and given how keen I am to play Game of Thrones, I'm keen to do both weeks of board games if others want to too...
 

HolyCheck

I want a tag give me a tag
melbgaf

lunch + imax batman on saturday


11am screening of batman then lunch

who's keen
?

confirmed:
hocheck
evlcookie
 

Danoss

Member
Danoss, hit me up if it dies completely. I have some spares and I'm pretty close by.

Will do man, thanks. I'm getting split-second freezes in-game every now and then, hopefully that's the extent of it for the time-being.

SydGAF Board Gamers, Choc can't make the 22nd any more and has suggested the weekend of the 28th and 29th for the next meetup. How are these dates with everybody else? Do we want to do two meetups if GoT arrives in time?

Also, for the broader SydGAF, Fogz was thinking of maybe coming by for a full meetup. If we do the games on the Saturday, we can do a dinner/drinks meetup with everybody else on Saturday night. Who is interested and available for that if it happens?

As for me, I'm available to do all of the above, and given how keen I am to play Game of Thrones, I'm keen to do both weeks of board games if others want to too...

Works for me, something just came up on the 22nd, so the 28th or 29th should suit me just fine (bar me forgetting something, or my RPG group rescheduling, with a few people having commitments suddenly).

I'm too poor for a dinner/drinks meetup, so don't count me in for that. Being a charity case there would make me uncomfortable. I might turn up after dinner and say hi and whatnot though.
 
Man fucking weddings. Mother-in-law took the wedding dress two weeks ago to get pressed at the dry cleaners in their town. Stops in today to pick it up so they can do final adjustments ahead of the wedding, "Ohhhhhhh! Sorry! I've been a little under the weather so I haven't got to that one yet. I didn't think it was urgent?"
fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff!
Also we are meant to be staging the photos this weekend so we can hit our marks next weekend and get the photos done nice and quick but the guy organising it for us is really uncommunicative and even though I am thankful he is helping us out it really is stressful trying to negotiate the bride, the photographer and the guy serving as a third party to the place we are getting them done at.

Also someone (blame has been laid on the little guy) ran the Touchpad dead out of battery again. Which was the cause of death last time. And it seems to refuse to charge or boot up now.
fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff!


Alan Wake & American Nightmare now only $10 on Steam!
Also Dark Souls is only $40 on Steam which is nice to see, still has GFWL DRM though. WITHOUT CHEEVOS?!?!

melbgaf

lunch + imax batman on saturday


11am screening of batman then lunch
Isn't DKR like 3 hours long? The last two movies were. Would make for a late lunch!

I'm heading to the 3:15pm showing on Thursday if anyone else is free, the 6:30pm sold out of decent seats. Might even see Shaneus on the train home!
 

Jader7777

Banned
Oh you mean next Saturday. My bagz.

I'd rather see Wreck-it Ralph (out yet?) and scream out video game references. Then when the movie stops being funny (disney!) we can throw jaffers at the people in the front row whilst claiming video games made us into sociopaths.

I only understand Tim Burton Batman movies...
 

markot

Banned
I feel so sorry for Labor...

I used to be a Labor kid, but everything they have done has turned me into a Greenie, its pretty much the only choice now for a 'progressive' vote.

Well, at least with Labor still fucking around, Greens have a bright future ahead even without Brown in charge. Now Turnbull just has to take over so that the inevitable Liberal victory next election is less... awful.

"Those damn extremist Greeeeeeeeens! We gotta put em last!"*

*Puts Family First ahead of them in preferences.
 

senahorse

Member
Definitely sounded like Danoss' video card is on the way out. I had a Matrox one years ago that did the same thing.


Showing your age there cods :p, was it a millennium by chance?

I think I had a Voodoo 2 at the time :D

edit: Danoss, if you have the PSU to run it I have a 4870x2 I could send your way
 
Almost ended up grabbing CK2 but then realised that Steam Store is terrible at updating and had dropped back to 40% off :(
Football Manager 2012 is $7.50 on Steam US! Get one of the nice people to gift you up!
Payday The Heist 4 packs are $15!
Alice 2 is $5 on Steam US too!

The available tickets are pitiful. Wouldn't recommend.
Yeah that was why we dropped out of the 6:30pm session, only tickets left were way too far forward. 3:15pm had plenty in the middle when we booked on Thursday thankfully!

Labor have no fcuking idea who they want to be. Stuck in no mans land.
H3vlh.gif

This politics shit is a circus
 

midonnay

Member
looks like No Stanton, No Essendon.... >_>

has been tagged out of each of their losses....

Showing your age there cods :p, was it a millennium by chance?

I think I had a Voodoo 2 at the time :D

edit: Danoss, if you have the PSU to run it I have a 4870x2 I could send your way

Voodoo 2 SLI represent....

pretty sure I had that Matrox card too... >_>
 

senahorse

Member
Sorry -_- there's an international food festival next weekend!


Oh! And the blue room cinema in Rosalie is doing a Batman trilogy next week. They serve dinner during the film!

Blue room is good but the room isn't sloped enough (if at all?) my gf is pretty short at around 5ft 3inches and the last time were there, 2 tall people sat in front of us and either seat didn't give her an ideal view of the screen. It's a shame too because the price is good but they won't let you reserve seats (at least they didn't used to). So now we just go to gold class instead, we have Batman booked in at Chermside Gold Class next Friday :D
 

Kritz

Banned
So I played through Binary Domain and Spec Ops: The Line this week. Both games have been categorised as third person shooters with interesting plots. After playing both, I guess I can kind of agree to that. Binary Domain is typical anime mecha tripe, where all bad guys are robots who are bad because they are robots. Spec Ops: The Line is... apocalypse now without being as self aware about its anti-war message.

I think that Binary Domain is genuinely a pretty fun game, even if it suffers from being made by people who don't know what a shooter is. More accurately, it has the base of a shooter and then is topped with your standard JRPG menus, micromanagement, characters and design decisions. I don't know what it is with Japanese games and their square, no personality user interfaces. Where every element is a box with a single gradient, with a little drawn portrait of the characters you've met so far, with a stat screen detailing the most irrelevant, tedious over-information such as the range in metres of your gun (despite all enemy encounters being inside a little 10x10m box) and their favourite colour and the smell of their underpants.

From there the gameplay is pretty much every shitty mission trope you've encountered in a game since 1998. Forced stealth sequences, turret sections, gimmicy vehicle sequences, QTEs, balancing minigames, morale choices of "shoot one of these guys", wave based encounters where you have to wait for a door to open. These all happen multiple times across the game. Then you have this silly "trust" system where depending on how well you shoot robots in the head, your squad members will trust you and if they trust you enough you get the good ending. Because you shot those robots in the head real good. Sometimes your teammates will initiate dialog with you, where the secret is to agree with literally everything they say and then they will trust you. Big Bo wants to fuck some hookers? Tell him "yeah I want to fuck some hookers too". Charlie wants you to cover the left flank while he covers the right (keeping in mind the friendly AI isn't actually competent enough to execute their own orders)? Tell him, "yeah I'll shoot at stuff on the left" (and then shoot everything on all the sides for all it matters). I didn't have the homely rocket lady like me enough because I didn't take her on missions to kill robots, so I didn't get the best ending unfortunately. Although the best ending doesn't have anything to do with her, so I'm not sure how it was remotely relevant to have her trust me.

But, despite all of those things that are bad about Binary Domain, and despite all the other things that are worse that I can't be bothered mentioning, I think that Binary Domain is a pretty good cutscene thing. The characters were funny and kind of interesting, in a cartoony anime kind of way where everyone is a stereotype and where the plot of the game was "we have to stop prejudice by killing all of the robots so people aren't racist against robots".

Spec Ops: The Line, on the other hand, is less about the plot contradicting the plot and cartoon characters and more about gameplay contradicting plot and everyone is out of their god damn mind characters. The general gist is you go into sand-country to save people, and you do this by shooting literally every other human being you see for the next 20 hours. But that's okay because that is the plot of the game. This is not a spoiler.

So, lots of people seem to think that Spec Ops: The Line is the greatest video game story since Citizen Kane: The Video Game. I don't know. I feel like... it was overhyped a little. I guess people initially thought that it would be a game about being super military man and saving the video game day, when in actuality it wasn't that. So they hyped it up, everyone got excited... and, I dunno. It was fine. It was a fine story and it was interesting and I could have saved 15 hours by just watching Apocalypse Now. Like Binary Domain, Spec Ops: The Line felt like every other shooter since 1998 in terms of gameplay and set pieces. You shoot things in a helicopter from a turret, you shoot things from a van from a grenade turret, you shoot people with a sniper rifle from afar, you shoot people from an overhead camera thing, there are like 20000 turrets in the game that you shoot people from, you kill waves of enemies while you wait for a door to unlock. Yeah. All those things happen.

I guess I'm left kind of wondering, at what point do these properties need to be games? Your relationship to both main characters felt entirely impersonal, and the reward from playing through a level is the cutscene at the end. They're good cutscenes, and they're pretty engaging when they don't have QTEs or minigames or morale choices book-ending them. But I don't know if this is where I want story-games to be. I want more stuff like Journey, or DayZ, or Half Life, where the stories you come out of the game with are the ones you've inferred from the gameplay. Where the pure act of interaction is the story. Both games I've talked about kind of implement gameplay into story, or story into gameplay... but, I feel like I've not taken away anything from either of these games. Unlike a movie or a book, I'm never going to go back an reexperience Binary Domain or Spec Ops, because the actual mechanics and design of the gameplay are so tedious and mundane. Where as, I think, a story-driven game like Portal 2 or an experience-driven game like DayZ are complemented by how you interact with the game, and the two elements of play and storytelling aren't separated, they're the same thing.

So, sorry for the massive post of my bad opinions about video games. I'd highly recommend Binary Domain and Spec Ops at the Amazon asking price (like $35 for the two of them? Dunno if the sale's still going), and I think that they're interesting talking points for video game stories and the medium as a whole. Even if you're not into being a pretentious forum wanker, they're moderately fun to play even if you've already played them a hundred times before.

5/5 STARS - KRITZ
 
I can only remember using 2 turrets in Spec Ops The Line to be honest?

Also the toppling of the radio tower was meant to signify how batshit insane the whole thing had gotten as the entire point of fighting your way to it was to continually broadcast to the survivors that you were going to lead them out of the city to safety. It was another indication that your "choices" in the game were in fact just psychological glitches in Walkers mind that was overcome with the persona of someone that needed to go home to his country a 'hero' rather than just someone who killed a bunch of people for oil. Blowing up the tower meant it was game over for any kind of salvation for the remnants of Dubai, along with the destruction of the very last of the water supply.
 

Kritz

Banned
Well, there's the helicopter sequence, the truck sequence (not really a turret), the first time you encounter an enemy turret and learn the flipping mechanic, then nearly every single area after this has a turret that you can flip (I noticed that when you do use these turrets, a bunch more enemies seem to come out to fight you), there was the mandatory turret when you were covering your two teammates on the other end of a building, there was a late game one where you had to take out a few turret camps and one of them was positioned in such a way that it overlooked the majority of the battlefield if you took it...

So, only some are "true" turret sections. But the game has... a lot of turrets. A looot.

And don't get me wrong, I got the story in Spec Ops. It was basically (spoilers for a game that isn't Spec Ops: The Line that I can't say the name of because it is a spoiler for Spec Ops: The Line. You can see the predicament I'm in)
the Bioshock plot twist and how it relates to player agency, but mixed with something almost from Breaking Bad where it's about this guy who's simply a power freak trying to justify his own existence through the destruction of others
. So, I get those parts of it.

And I feel that (Spec Ops ending spoilers)
I ended up getting one of the better conclusions. Thoughout the game I was making the more morally bankrupt choices, of murdering civilians or having a guy burn alive out of spite. I thought I'd try and follow the plot of I'm an unforgiven piece of shit sending himself and the city he's in to hell, so I didn't let the dream-enemy kill me, and in turn, killed my way through the epilogue, blowing away the friendly american soldiers who had come to save me. I thought it was a fitting "resolution" to how the story had ended up.
 
And I feel that (Spec Ops ending spoilers)
I ended up getting one of the better conclusions. Thoughout the game I was making the more morally bankrupt choices, of murdering civilians or having a guy burn alive out of spite. I thought I'd try and follow the plot of I'm an unforgiven piece of shit sending himself and the city he's in to hell, so I didn't let the dream-enemy kill me, and in turn, killed my way through the epilogue, blowing away the friendly american soldiers who had come to save me. I thought it was a fitting "resolution" to how the story had ended up.

The cool thing is if you went the other way and tried to be moral and not do bad shit it all ends up being contradicted by the Intel you pick up along the way. Like after Lugo gets hung by the survivors if you choose to fire a warning shot in the air to get everyone back the Intel piece just up in front of you says you slaughtered them. Initially I thought it was just poor implementation by the developer but once all the pieces come together it becomes obvious that Walker hallucinated doing the 'heroic' thing and sparing the savages who hung his squad member and close friend. He thinks he is a hero but in reality he is unhinged and just endlessly pushing forward for no damn reason other than it is the only thing he knows how to do, the thing that he has been trailed to do for years and years.

I get the impression I ignored the turret a bit too much too :/
 
Kritz, I totally agree with you about directed vs emergent gameplay. Game, cutscene, game, cutscene, has never been as fun IMO as games that let you generate your own experiences. It was true when comparing games like Ninja Gaiden on the NES and Pirates! on C64 then and it's true when comparing most big budget shooters and games like Civilization, Just Cause 2 (sure, there's a story I guess) or L4D2.

I remember most those awesome experiences that were unexpected and unique over being funnelled. Movies are much better at that.
 
That's why I asked about the Blade Runner glasses. I guess I'm not good at being subtle. We could go in on one if there's enough of us? IIRC it was about $95 to get one landed. Are there 10 willing to go in? Not too much of an outlay...

Edit: Yep, $94 for one or $170 for two.
 
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