• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

AusGAF 8 - Worksafe Wankers

Status
Not open for further replies.

Clipper

Member
I want to play that game too, badly. I do know that you need to play with at least the first expansion, otherwise it's broken. Just bare that in mind if you do get a chance to play it. One day I will no longer be able to contain my desire to buy that game, even if I only play it once (I'm even trying to fight it right now since it's in stock at Games Empire).

I had a game of Eclipse, which is kinda TI distilled down into a shorter time period. It is a good game, but it didn't have the feel I wanted.
Some of the regulars at the Long, Long Games meetups are up for TI every week, but they are usually one or two players off critical mass (the game really only works with 5 or more players and it goes to long with 7 or more players), so I can pretty much guarantee you could get a game of TI next time you attend. I've played TI and Eclipse once each and I'd say I'd prefer Eclipse, as it has more varied ways to gain VP, but they are both a lot of fun.
 

Shaneus

Member
Jason Segel is a massive Muppets fan (watch Forgetting Sarah Marshall, that's basically him realising he'll never get to make a Muppets movie, or pitching one) so I'd say that one tried to stay true to the spirit of the early Muppets movies, even if modern considerations forced some other changes onto him.
Yeah, that's kind of why I said "though". It may seem like he's just like another Seth Rogen-type director (a la Green Hornet) who thinks they know what the legacy is, but you can see he has that spirit instilled in him that can only come with growing up with The Muppets, rather than just retroactively appreciating them.

Like I said, it may not have been the best Muppets love letter possible, but given it had to go through Hollywood etc., I think it did well to be as true to the original characters as it was. Shame that for the first 30 minutes or so I was slightly agitated as all the voices were just that little bit off (obviously can't be helped, but the feeling was still there).

It's funny how much more respect* I have for the concept of evolution / darwinism after doing some study via my AI course on Artificial Genetics. Watcing some really neat videos from a computer scientist I don't remember the name of where he made software to generate AI, which would evolve over time to complete abitrary goals, and the AIs which completed those goals were selected to be mutated upon in order to attempt, by pseudo-random procedural heuristics, to do the goal better than the previous lot.

When the goal was to, say, move the furthest distance in half a minute, the resulting output after millions of generations were AI creations that resembled various insects and creatures found in the real world. Snake-like slithering creatures, pushing limb creatures that resembled turtles. It was all really interesting.

And, of course, the one example where the AI simply generated a really, really, really tall cube and pushed itself over, thus becoming the winner by completing the condition of, "getting really far really fast". Showing that a computer always gives you what you tell it to do, regardless of what result you expected.

ohn hey here's the video

* by 'respect' I don't mean 'belief'. I mean, well, admire / understand or something.
That video is fucking rad as shit. Was it all generated by providing factors such as "x objects, this many sides"? Do you have a video of that one pushing the block over the line by building itself really tall? Or a way I can do that at home?

Sad, but LucasArts hadn't made a good game since Jedi Outcast.
You're only a true LucasArts fan if you can remember this:
oMC9zym.png


I also love the LucasFilm Games story about Tim Schaefer's application and interview, talking about how he loved the game Ballblazer, but he referred to it as some other name, the name it was only known as via pirated copies :lol

PS. RIP them. They've been on the slide for ages, but still... sad to see them go. Critical question: What's happening with their IP?
 

Fredescu

Member

Thanks for the link. I'll be watching this during the day I think.

I like how early on he says that records don't judge you. Whenever I listen to Rollins I feel like I'm being judged constantly.

I mentioned a few weeks back that I saw Dinosaur Jr. Rollins did a bunch of shows with them in the states where he would open as a spoken word thing. He's a big Dinosaur Jr fan, which strikes me as weird because J and Rollins seem like complete opposites. J seems like a lazy wallflower and Rollins is always so in your face and vibrant. Here's a radio thing they did together: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlxxDr01V_c

Also here's the guy in my avatar introducing Rollins talking about his book (which I bought but haven't read): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSSYgQnSSig
 

Shaneus

Member
Disney has owned it all since last year dude, they are just shutting down the internal studio to outsource all the development like they did a few years back.
Man, I hope there's some way it could possibly go to Double Fine without them getting bent over in the process. I assume that Maniac Mansion, Fandango, Full Throttle, Sam and Max and Monkey Island all belong to them?

I know Disney isn't a charity, but I'd love for them to go "Okay, you can have the IP for a buck" or something like that.

Thanks for the link. I'll be watching this during the day I think.

I like how early on he says that records don't judge you. Whenever I listen to Rollins I feel like I'm being judged constantly.
I can't say I've ever listened to any of them, but that doesn't surprise me. Maybe he draws a distinction between being judged and being questioned? I dunno.

Also here's the guy in my avatar introducing Rollins talking about his book (which I bought but haven't read): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSSYgQnSSig
Huh, didn't realise that was Thurston Moore. I'm not a Sonic Youth fan in the slightest (though I don't hate them) but know who he is and that he's a pretty switched on guy.
 

hamchan

Member
Man, I hope there's some way it could possibly go to Double Fine without them getting bent over in the process. I assume that Maniac Mansion, Fandango, Full Throttle, Sam and Max and Monkey Island all belong to them?

I know Disney isn't a charity, but I'd love for them to go "Okay, you can have the IP for a buck" or something like that.

Nope, best thing that could happen is they outsource the development to Double Fine. Most likely thing is that those IP enters the huge Disney IP vault, never to be seen again.
 

Fredescu

Member
I can't say I've ever listened to any of them, but that doesn't surprise me. Maybe he draws a distinction between being judged and being questioned? I dunno.
Don't you kind of feel that when listening to his spoken word too? I like it but I find it pretty confrontational. In a good way, in the kind of way that makes me think about myself.

Huh, didn't realise that was Thurston Moore. I'm not a Sonic Youth fan in the slightest (though I don't hate them) but know who he is and that he's a pretty switched on guy.
It's from The Year Punk Broke. He can be pretty obtuse ("arty") at times, and the avatar moment was definitely one of those times: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb2Suu1bfxA. In the doco, that bit is immediately followed by a pretty wild live version of Negative Creep by Nirvana, so I always hear the start of that in my head when that video ends.
 
Man, I hope there's some way it could possibly go to Double Fine without them getting bent over in the process. I assume that Maniac Mansion, Fandango, Full Throttle, Sam and Max and Monkey Island all belong to them?

Nahhhhhhh I don't want Double Fine to turn into a franchise factory like Telltale is. Double Fine avoided closing up shop by getting into the smaller games like Costume Quest, Trenched & Stacked. Hell, they were even going to do layoffs before the Kickstarter project blew up. Adding in IP costs would make it quite a gamble for them unless Disney are willing to foot the bill for the whole lot but with adventure games being a small market I couldn't see it having the profit margin required to get approved.

I would expect to see all the classics up on PSN/XBLA/Steam in some form by 2015 though.
 

Jintor

Member
I'd love to ask Tim what the long tail on their franchises are and if they regret (well, how much they regret) that they don't own Trenched Iron Brigade
 
I'd love to ask Tim what the long tail on their franchises are and if they regret (well, how much they regret) that they don't own Trenched Iron Brigade

Getting Brutal Legend up on Steam seems like a good indication that they feel there is money in the tail end of sales, especially with the constant updates (there have been like 18 patches so far?).

Trenched was a good deal at the time but yeah, would be handy to have that royalty money rolling in now. If they can get the Kickstarter game out sooner rather than later they will have that sweet Steam 70% cut rolling in.
 

Jintor

Member
Trenched is still the only game they've made that I feel is mechanically fun as opposed to aesthetically fun. Everything else they've made to my mind is mechanically merely serviceable. They make up for it with the aesthetics and characters, though, obviously.
 

Danoss

Member
Some of the regulars at the Long, Long Games meetups are up for TI every week, but they are usually one or two players off critical mass (the game really only works with 5 or more players and it goes to long with 7 or more players), so I can pretty much guarantee you could get a game of TI next time you attend. I've played TI and Eclipse once each and I'd say I'd prefer Eclipse, as it has more varied ways to gain VP, but they are both a lot of fun.

Not something that's worth hours of travel and waiting on a Sunday for a 'maybe'. If TI didn't happen, it'd cost $10 for the privilege of playing a game I probably already own so it wasn't a wasted trip. Also, TI is something I'd want to play with friends rather than some random strangers.

After seeing TI in action and playing Eclipse, I don't know how you could say Eclipse has more VP options. There is nothing to dictate or encourage diplomacy at all for one, which is how I lost severely in my game.

I was surrounded by alien colonies from the beginning, which was fine because most of them were slim pickings but it took a while to get out of my area. By the time I did, the game was approaching the end and one player was having a crack at the middle and would win if no one stopped him. My ships were insanely strong and all players were terrified of them. I made a move for the middle but had to traverse through someone else's territory. I said "I'm just passing through, I won't be touching anything". The other player moved all his nearby shit in to defend and I was left with no option but to attack because, well, there was no other course of action open.

So those ships I had that players were terrified at the sight of? They hit like soft pillows. I was able to throw a fistful of dice and needed lower numbers to hit and... I was crushed. I was left with one ship at the end of that before I escaped. The player in the middle went on to win comfortably.

Now if I had challenged the person in the middle instead of some dickhead standing in my way because he could, it might have been different outcome at the end. After he destroyed me and he sits there with a shit-eating grin on his face and I tell him he's an idiot, he says "why didn't you say anything?" The game enabled that. He wasn't able to stop the guy in the middle from winning by combat, so he went for me. Dice combat is fucking stupid and that was the way to VP in the end.

If we were playing TI, it could have been different. Diplomacy is an option, there might have been secret agendas at play, etc. Instead there was a dicefest. When Eclipse distilled TI down and made it playable in a much shorter time, they threw out a lot of stuff that made it interesting to achieve it. VPs are achievable by conquering areas (may or may not involve combat) or combat and then there is a random draw from a bag varying the VPs obtained which the winner draws more, but the loser could in fact gain more VPs from the loss. I can see some people liking it, but it's not my cup of tea.
 

legend166

Member
LucasArts was a big part of my childhood so it's sad they are now officially dead.

It's also sad that Disney are going to sit on those IPs and they'll never been seen again. Perfect example of why copyright laws are ridiculous.

Very annoying that LucasArts didn't release the rest of their old adventure games on Steam when they had the chance.
 

Shaneus

Member
Don't you kind of feel that when listening to his spoken word too? I like it but I find it pretty confrontational. In a good way, in the kind of way that makes me think about myself.
Oh definitely, in particular his stance on electronic music (obviously lots of others, but that was a particularly specific one). But he forces you to have an opinion on whatever it is he's talking about. Not questioning it, but questioning your belief in it, I guess. So maybe in that interview I linked there's a distinct difference between talking about music that judges and music that questions.

I think there's a deeper conversation embedded in all of this somewhere, but it's hard to commit to it while at work. I'll give that particular part of the video another watch when I get home tonight :)


Nahhhhhhh I don't want Double Fine to turn into a franchise factory like Telltale is. Double Fine avoided closing up shop by getting into the smaller games like Costume Quest, Trenched & Stacked. Hell, they were even going to do layoffs before the Kickstarter project blew up. Adding in IP costs would make it quite a gamble for them unless Disney are willing to foot the bill for the whole lot but with adventure games being a small market I couldn't see it having the profit margin required to get approved.

I would expect to see all the classics up on PSN/XBLA/Steam in some form by 2015 though.
Well, I don't necessarily mean a sequel/franchise factory, but if Tim feels inspired to revisit the GF story (for example) or create another game in the MM franchise (something that relates to DotT like DotT relates to MM) then he can, rather than thinking otherwise. I was always dubious about Telltale's approach to any of the franchises they handled (and hey, they've done all of them a disservice with the exception of TWD) but I don't think DF would do something from the Lucasarts days unless there was a positive force behind it (rather than obligation).

One of the things I'm hoping will stem from DAF is the ability to push out some smaller, perhaps episodic adventure games that fit into the traditional mold rather than trying to dumb things down too much a la Telltale stuff. At the other end of their Kickstarter adventure, they should have a process and the tools bedded down to be able to knock something out (comparatively) quickly.

Hell, maybe even an episodic title where each chapter focuses on a single character (like in DotT) and then the last episode puts them all together or something. I dunno. But I certainly don't think they'd do the franchises a disservice, especially considering that every DF game has had fuckloads of personality and charm, even if the game itself has been average.
 

Clipper

Member
After seeing TI in action and playing Eclipse, I don't know how you could say Eclipse has more VP options. There is nothing to dictate or encourage diplomacy at all for one, which is how I lost severely in my game.

I was surrounded by alien colonies from the beginning, which was fine because most of them were slim pickings but it took a while to get out of my area. By the time I did, the game was approaching the end and one player was having a crack at the middle and would win if no one stopped him. My ships were insanely strong and all players were terrified of them. I made a move for the middle but had to traverse through someone else's territory. I said "I'm just passing through, I won't be touching anything". The other player moved all his nearby shit in to defend and I was left with no option but to attack because, well, there was no other course of action open.

So those ships I had that players were terrified at the sight of? They hit like soft pillows. I was able to throw a fistful of dice and needed lower numbers to hit and... I was crushed. I was left with one ship at the end of that before I escaped. The player in the middle went on to win comfortably.

Now if I had challenged the person in the middle instead of some dickhead standing in my way because he could, it might have been different outcome at the end. After he destroyed me and he sits there with a shit-eating grin on his face and I tell him he's an idiot, he says "why didn't you say anything?" The game enabled that. He wasn't able to stop the guy in the middle from winning by combat, so he went for me. Dice combat is fucking stupid and that was the way to VP in the end.

If we were playing TI, it could have been different. Diplomacy is an option, there might have been secret agendas at play, etc. Instead there was a dicefest. When Eclipse distilled TI down and made it playable in a much shorter time, they threw out a lot of stuff that made it interesting to achieve it. VPs are achievable by conquering areas (may or may not involve combat) or combat and then there is a random draw from a bag varying the VPs obtained which the winner draws more, but the loser could in fact gain more VPs from the loss. I can see some people liking it, but it's not my cup of tea.
I agree that Eclipse is more random, but all the VP conditions in the game I played of TI seemed a bit samey. There are no (or very few) victory point conditions based on battle. Most of them can be gained by simply holding onto some influence or trade goods at the end of the round. There were some that involved conquest of planets, but if those came out late, then you found yourself needing to let people take over your planets so you could take them back to get a VP. My secret VP condition was also made impossible to complete in the first turn due to a crappy law that basically locked my race out of the game, while the other players on the other side of the board cruised to victory as nobody who could attack them could be bothered to. I still had fun and tried my best, but after 7 hours of gameplay, I didn't even stand a chance due to that law. I was trying my hardest to get a card to repeal it, but that wasn't going to happen as there were too many turtle races on the board.

Eclipse, on the other hand, seemed much more balanced. I won in the last turn with the difference being one planet. I knew I had a chance, but I was very worried about one of the other players that was able to much better mange their economy and had a ton of planets that nobody could reach and a decent sized force in the way and couldn't be sure until the reveal of VP tokens. All 4 players were fairly close and we all had different strategies. You could get points for conquest or by strategically making use of your exploration options and it seemed that all of your options could lead to VP gains, unlike with TI where it seems better to even leave some unconquered planets nearby your home one to give you more options to gather VPs.
 

teekun

Member
The saddest thing about LucasArts closing is that it made me think back and realize they haven't made a good game that I gave a shit about since the 90's. Their game release history gets really depressing after about 1999 when it's just a sea of mediocre titles beginning with "Star Wars:"
 

Danoss

Member
I agree that Eclipse is more random, but all the VP conditions in the game I played of TI seemed a bit samey. There are no (or very few) victory point conditions based on battle. Most of them can be gained by simply holding onto some influence or trade goods at the end of the round. There were some that involved conquest of planets, but if those came out late, then you found yourself needing to let people take over your planets so you could take them back to get a VP. My secret VP condition was also made impossible to complete in the first turn due to a crappy law that basically locked my race out of the game, while the other players on the other side of the board cruised to victory as nobody who could attack them could be bothered to. I still had fun and tried my best, but after 7 hours of gameplay, I didn't even stand a chance due to that law. I was trying my hardest to get a card to repeal it, but that wasn't going to happen as there were too many turtle races on the board.

Eclipse, on the other hand, seemed much more balanced. I won in the last turn with the difference being one planet. I knew I had a chance, but I was very worried about one of the other players that was able to much better mange their economy and had a ton of planets that nobody could reach and a decent sized force in the way and couldn't be sure until the reveal of VP tokens. All 4 players were fairly close and we all had different strategies. You could get points for conquest or by strategically making use of your exploration options and it seemed that all of your options could lead to VP gains, unlike with TI where it seems better to even leave some unconquered planets nearby your home one to give you more options to gather VPs.

When I get a game of TI on the table and play myself, I'll be able to comment a bit better. I have a feeling that considering the scale, it might take more than one game.

I'm okay with enough random elements in a game to keep it fresh, but when it's a crutch then it's all over for me. Eclipse was like a space euro game until the dice came out and shat all over it. Take a planet, destroy aliens/players, dice, dice, dice.

I can see you preferring Eclipse given the games in your library and those you mention that you enjoy. Most of them have too much randomness or dicefuckery for my liking. That probably sounds like an insult but it's not meant as such. It's a preference and that's fine.
 
The saddest thing about LucasArts closing is that it made me think back and realize they haven't made a good game that I gave a shit about since the 90's. Their game release history gets really depressing after about 1999 when it's just a sea of mediocre titles beginning with "Star Wars:"

They kept picking shit developers like Day One and Frontier Developments in between gems like Obsidian and Pandemic which realllly didn't help.
 
Didn't they also have the team that did... um... Haze? And Timesplitters? I'm pretty sure LA dicked them over severely, too.

Free Radical? Yeah. Change in management at Lucasarts came when they were 2 years into Battlefront 3, new Lucasarts management wanted to cancel the project but since it had a payout clause on cancelation they just withheld payments to Free Radical for 6 months waiting for them to die.

Lucasarts won that battle, but didn't win the war, obviously.

They changed management every two years this past decade. Just a fucking shambles. It's a wonder they lasted as long as they did, Ward prolonged the survival by cutting their numbers from 700ish down to 150.
 
Free Radical? Yeah. Change in management at Lucasarts came when they were 2 years into Battlefront 3, new Lucasarts management wanted to cancel the project but since it had a payout clause on cancelation they just withheld payments to Free Radical for 6 months waiting for them to die.

Lucasarts won that battle, but didn't win the war, obviously.

$45 million dollars flushed down the toilet. good work, lucasarts
 

Jintor

Member
Sat in a queue for an hour (despite having an appointment) to give blood but my body wasn't having any of it. Coagulated up after about 9mm of blood and refused to flow thereafter. Oh well at least I have this neat bandage and an excuse not to use one arm for a while.
 
Sat in a queue for an hour (despite having an appointment) to give blood but my body wasn't having any of it. Coagulated up after about 9mm of blood and refused to flow thereafter. Oh well at least I have this neat bandage and an excuse not to use one arm for a while.

Man, I've tried to give blood like 3 times now and they won't let me because they keep losing my signup forms. :(

Edit: You should sign up to be an organ donor though! They give you this neat card to rub in people's faces as you let on very subtly how much better a human being you are than them.
 

Omni

Member
Sat in a queue for an hour (despite having an appointment) to give blood but my body wasn't having any of it. Coagulated up after about 9mm of blood and refused to flow thereafter. Oh well at least I have this neat bandage and an excuse not to use one arm for a while.
I've donated about 6 times now. Absolutely hate it.
 
Sat in a queue for an hour (despite having an appointment) to give blood but my body wasn't having any of it. Coagulated up after about 9mm of blood and refused to flow thereafter. Oh well at least I have this neat bandage and an excuse not to use one arm for a while.

My blood is useless because I tested positive for malaria antibodies. Yep, I'm so bad arse I got malaria and didn't even notice!
 
My blood is useless because I tested positive for malaria antibodies. Yep, I'm so bad arse I got malaria and didn't even notice!
Can't malaria lay dormant for more than a decade before doing its thing? I should probably get checked, come to think of it, since when I visited a jungle a few years back I hated the malaria meds so much I just stopped taking them.

We're on half that for a big 3 bedroom house with a huge backyard and 2 sheds, 10 minutes north of the CBD.
Doesn't being 10 minutes north of the CBD in Adelaide mean you're in the outback?
 
I've given blood 10-11 times but not since mid 2010 or so. Came back from overseas late 2010 and went to give blood but since I got pneumonia while travelling and had to have a chest cg they said I had to go to my GP first before I could give blood again. Couldn't be bothered doing that so just didn't donate blood for awhile.

Popped in to the donor centre a few times on my way home from work recently (without an appointment) and they were either closed (at 3pm lol, place has weird hours) or there were way too many people waiting.
 

Jintor

Member
I should probably do that organ donor thing. Pretty sure I was just going to have my ashes shoved in a jar anyway, may as well get some rad ass life saving alive bits outta me first.

Gonna have to wait another 3 months to donate. Guess I'll go to Chatswood, these mobile blood centers blow.

I've donated twice before but I didn't for a while, so ehhhhhhhh
 

Omni

Member
Man, I've tried to give blood like 3 times now and they won't let me because they keep losing my signup forms. :(

Edit: You should sign up to be an organ donor though! They give you this neat card to rub in people's faces as you let on very subtly how much better a human being you are than them.
My card was destroyed in a washing machine incident. Can you actually get replacements?
 
Doesn't being 10 minutes north of the CBD in Adelaide mean you're in the outback?
Adelaide is roughly 1300kms away from the CBD.
JAMBOPATENTEDBURNSAUCE.GIF

Deep burn :)

Popped in to the donor centre a few times on my way home from work recently (without an appointment) and they were either closed (at 3pm lol, place has weird hours) or there were way too many people waiting.
Best to give them a call and make an appointment. Easy once you get into it as you make your next appointment during the checkup. I usually just leave a reminder in my phone, they have an sms reminder but it has been spotty in the past (sometimes the day after, sometimes a week before which is useless). Last 2 times I have gotten a letter in the mail which has been handy, I just chuck it up on the fridge.

I donate when I leave work at 4pm so it is pretty quiet, mainly just school kids.

EVERYBODY DONATE BLOOD YO

Good way to keep track of your weight too
60kg up to 95kg :(

Gonna have to wait another 3 months to donate. Guess I'll go to Chatswood, these mobile blood centers blow.
3 months because of coag? That seems strange.

My card was destroyed in a washing machine incident. Can you actually get replacements?
Can't you get it printed on your drivers licence? Also make sure to drum it into your significant others as in most places their wishes are taken over the deceased's wishes, at least from what I have come across.



Also roosters you should be able to fill out the forms there, strange they keep knocking you back.
 

Jintor

Member
3 months between donations is their recommendation, even failed ones apparently. I mean they did draw blood, just not usable blood.

last time the finger pinprick was more painful than having the needle jammed in my arm. This time, other way around
 

Stackboy

Member
I finished Bioshock Infinite.

I am a broken woman.

NO SPOILERS WHEN I SEE YOU AT LANSMASH. I am incredibly time poor at the moment and am only 3 hours in. Desperately want to play more.


Bought, could not resist.

When I get home I'll grab the code and send it on. If I happen to forget (because I'm a horrible, horrible person) please remind me.


That doesn't bode well for Stackboy...

Thanks Jase! You deserve internet cred for the code hookup.

Holy Shit Bioshock Infinite has amazing level design, art design and animation.

SO YUMMY I WANT MORE AND MORE AND MORE

UGH ME TOOOOO!
 
Playing Infinite reminds me of playing Quake/Unreal back in the day. During combat I can feel myself leaning into the screen and the movement is as if he is jumping around the place at high speeds. Run and deliver type stuff, none of this stop and prop behind cover shit.

Bueno :)
 

Dead Man

Member
Adelaide is roughly 1300kms away from the CBD.
I... I can't say you're wrong :/
I should probably do that organ donor thing. Pretty sure I was just going to have my ashes shoved in a jar anyway, may as well get some rad ass life saving alive bits outta me first.

Gonna have to wait another 3 months to donate. Guess I'll go to Chatswood, these mobile blood centers blow.

I've donated twice before but I didn't for a while, so ehhhhhhhh

At least you are allowed to donate blood. I often think of lying on the form so they will let me, but :/
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom