On the plus side, if the story broke in a News Corp paper you just know they would have calculated the wages out to $1.78 an hour, because you technically live there 24/7!
They're not negatively geared, which is something.
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AusPoliGaf |Early 2016 Election| - the government's term has been... Shortened
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On the plus side, if the story broke in a News Corp paper you just know they would have calculated the wages out to $1.78 an hour, because you technically live there 24/7!
They're not negatively geared, which is something.
JesseEwiak
Member
Eh, if you're rich and a progressive, you're a hypocrite. If you're a poor and a progressive, you're envious of the rich. You're going to get attacked either way. I mean, FDR was our 2nd greatest President and he was literally the stereotype of the rich toff.
Mr. Pointy
Member
I hope we get a good John Oliver commentary out of all of this.
What was the multiple properties? I thought the problem was he didn't claim his farm as a real estate interest, but a business interest.
He's also a doctor, which means he can actually afford to own multiple properties without claiming ridiculous tax benefits on them.
D.Lo
Member
I wasn't really directly having a go at DiNatalie (who owns three properties it seems), just the fact that so many of these politicians have so many investments that they can 'forget' about some of them when declaring interests.
I can see this playing into the 'they're all out of touch ruling class' perception, which particularly affects the Greens, who talk a whole country game but fight the perception of being rich inner-city chardonnay-socialists to rural voters.
I can see this playing into the 'they're all out of touch ruling class' perception, which particularly affects the Greens, who talk a whole country game but fight the perception of being rich inner-city chardonnay-socialists to rural voters.
Doesn't have to fight much about being an inner-city socialist, he lives in the Otway Ranges... which is about as far from inner-city as you can get. Having seen him talk in Torquay, I'd say the perception of him to rural voters is actually quite solid in contrast.
bobnowhere
Member
Yeah pretty much. It's not a particularily subtle attack.
Aarglefarg
Member
I see two properties, the North Melbourne house listed as an investment in the real estate section (section 3) and then the farm in section 10 which is his primary residence? I don't think he has so many that he forgot, it looks like a category misunderstanding.
I guess it depends what you actually mean by progressive. It has about as much meaning as capitalist or socialist at this point in time. I imagine progressive means vastly different things to different socio-economic strata.
I'd call myself progressive, but I'm definitely not mainstream progressive in some areas, insofar as I understand progressive anyway.
D.Lo
Member
Yeah looks like it, my mistake.
Elaugaufein
Member
You can't negatively gear farms for capital gains. In order to claim losses on farms / grazing against income you must be running the farm as a business with intent to turn profit.
jellies_two
Member
NBN leak press missile inbound
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-late-night-police-raids-20160520-gozkqh.html
The article appeared just now, it isn't a bad one:
After 7 comments over an hour Comments are now closed
Why is fairfax always afraid of allowing comments on articles that are the least bit worthy?
Its the top read article in Politics, and the 5th most clicked article in The Age at the moment.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-late-night-police-raids-20160520-gozkqh.html
The article appeared just now, it isn't a bad one:
After 7 comments over an hour Comments are now closed
Why is fairfax always afraid of allowing comments on articles that are the least bit worthy?
Its the top read article in Politics, and the 5th most clicked article in The Age at the moment.
bobnowhere
Member
I laughed at Fibre-to-the-Nerd.
Edit: Looks like Malcolm won't have to hide from his candidate for Fremantle any more!
The two that have fallen fell at the hands of infighting, something the Greens are legitimately terrible at (so far)
bobnowhere
Member
He didn't disclose an expunged criminal record from the 80's, assaulting police and drink driving.
Be a CFMEU member.
tbf he didn't have any legal obligation to say anything about those right? At least the police one.
bobnowhere
Member
I think he told people when he nominated and they said it would be fine so he didn't put it on the official form. I imagine he was dumped because it looked bad and the ALP didn't want a fight involving a "union thug", you know that is the line the Coalition would have used, in a normally safe seat.
I believe he was a Maritime Workers Union rep.
yep it's almost impossible even map all the variables. Eco has a large human factor and the behaviour of humans doesn't usually fit well with a mathematical model. have a look at a small economic system like the stock market there is often irrational behaviour there. a small piece of bad news or a company mildly missing their forecast OMG THE APOCALYPSE SELL DIE etc Even some good news is treated with horror.
in a perfectly logical system eco would be easier but the primary input into the system is the behaviour of an often irrational, erratic and skittish animal.
There are any number of Nobel Prizes and probably a renaming of the award to your name if you can come up with even a semi decent mathematical model for human behaviour that could be plugged into economic models.
Really the government should just ignore every state except QLD. They have no need to campaign anywhere else, the swing wont be strong enough. Just do what Howard did in 1998, focus entirely on the marginal electorates in the states that matter, which is almost entirely QLD this election.
because comments on internet news sites are a dumpster fire of garbage and within two comments devolves into internet political fighters brawling and hurling insults, even on well-moderated sites
/edit i mean hell this gaf thread which is moooooooostly okay most of the time exploded a few pages back for no particularly good reason. you know how the net goes.
jellies_two
Member
But they pick and choose what to open and what to close early and what not to open.
Stories about Telstra outage: no worries everyone gets to put the boot in.
Stories about important stuff where we might get some insight or find out that a lot of people are pissed off? (It isn't like they don't moderate them : they do) no comments allowed!
Stories about Telstra outage: no worries everyone gets to put the boot in.
Stories about important stuff where we might get some insight or find out that a lot of people are pissed off? (It isn't like they don't moderate them : they do) no comments allowed!
jellies_two
Member
Well, their comments system sucks anyway, the guardian and the ny times ones are infinitely better.
In fact the whole online edition is a shambles. The paper itself if I see it in a cafe is actually decent to read, but somehow the online presence makes a mess of things, preferring click bait headlines and last weeks viral stories from the wire services.
In fact the whole online edition is a shambles. The paper itself if I see it in a cafe is actually decent to read, but somehow the online presence makes a mess of things, preferring click bait headlines and last weeks viral stories from the wire services.
Wouldn't this affect their chances in the senate though? Which is ostensibly why this is election is happening when it is.
I'm not sure, what's the projected outcome for the senate? I'll be honest I totally forgot we had a second house when I made that comment. Senior moment.
bobnowhere
Member
Seems as though the AFP might have royally screwed up the raid. As is the convention, they deputise someone in the know from the organisation in question to validate documents they find, this time someone from NBNco. This employee took photos of documents marked parliamentary privilege and then proceeded to disseminate them to other NBNco employees strictly against the law. The AFP have now destroyed these photos but that doesn't invalidate the act.
What's the saying? Never attribute malice [political conspiracy] to that which can be adequately explained by stupidity!
What's the saying? Never attribute malice [political conspiracy] to that which can be adequately explained by stupidity!
Elaugaufein
Member
Thanks to the Senate voting changes I don't think anyone had a clear idea if the Senate outcome this year. If the polls don't change in a majors favour though it'll definitely have a cross bench balance of power ((NXT and / or Greens) + ????).
30yearsofhurt
Member
It looks like the lnp will gain one in the senate but the makeup of the crossbench will be more left wing so they'll effectively be worse off. They have no chance of winning the DD sitting of both houses.
Which will be amusing in the sense they have gone to a DD over one bit of legislation they refuse to talk about during the campaign, and then if they retain government they won't even be able to pass it in a joint sitting. I wonder if they will even table it again, or do they have to?
30yearsofhurt
Member
I'm not sure but my belief is that they have to have a joint sitting.
As I thought. Might be getting tight then depending on how the NXT and Green senate numbers turn out. House of Reps margin will probably be a reduced LNP majority on current polling.
(as an aside, auto correct for current kept making me type in Curr. Is that Kerr's or should it be cur?)
bobnowhere
Member
Wasn't the last DD in 1987 triggered by the Australia Card? I don't know what happened after the election, the ALP won easily but we don't have an Australia Card. Is there a constitutional requirement for an immediate joint sitting on the trigger or do we all just forget about it and they get to it eventually or not?
Oops! Sorry. I'm wrong. I must have forgotten or not remembered something properly. The bill goes up again in the new parliament, if it fails...THEN the PM can ask the GG to create a joint sitting of Parliament. It's therefore not a requirement at all, and can be glossed over.
The only time this has happened in Australia is after the 1974 double dissolution.
Second thing I'm wrong about, requires an absolute majority of both houses to pass.
bobnowhere
Member
Looks like the ALP reintroduced the Australia card into parliament after the DD but some random retired public servant found a technicality in the way the legislation was written that would have allowed the senate alone to override the card. The ALP promptly dumped the idea shortly after.
I suspect the Coalition will still win the election but maybe not enough for an outright joint sitting majority so I imagine they'll just tickle Xenophon's tummy and he'll roll over like usual after his moment in the sun.
Yep. And that's unfortunate, the last thing we need after removing our populist tools from senate is replacing them with more populists.
I'm not really sure why we have populists rising up in Australia. US and Europe I can understand, even if I don't agree. But I can't see any reason why it would happen in Aus.
Marky Mark
Member
Shit this is good lol
I might be extrapolating from my own experience, but I kinda assume trends in those trends also affect us. I do understand that, from a practical perspective rather from a rhetoric perspective, Howard was basically a RINO. As a small country I think we're swept up in global trends, even if they're not particularly applicable to our situation.
Btw I think I speak for a of aus poligaf in saying that you've been a great addition to the fold. There's nothing worse than an echo chamber, and I think you've prompted a lot of deep thought.
Edit: and I think you should listen to what populists have to say as long as we're a liberal democracy. Although having said that Howard appeasing Hanson was disgusting.
Candescence
Member
We do have populists, but not ones as influential as the likes of Bernie Sanders, Trump, or Jeremy Corbyn, and especially not ones who are actually able to 'hijack' one of the two major parties, mainly because we actually went through the global financial crisis relatively unscathed thanks to Rudd, so there's not nearly as much resentment from the middle and lower classes towards the establishment and the rich.
Heh, thanks. This is definitely better than 'shill' or 'moron' which is the normal reaction to my politics. People from both the left and right really don't like centrists.
With this, I'm reminded of the quote from Holt that I'm going to butcher: 'If we give these rednecks a voice we'll never get them to shut up'. Heavily misquoted, but along those lines. I think a whole lot of people take it as face value without really looking into what it means.
These people will either be represented by a major party shifting to represent them (LNP), a minor single-issue party (One Nation) or be essentially disenfranchised. I don't agree with the spirit or the letter of their policies, but I can't agree with disenfranchisement either.
I'm genuinely worried watching Europe, because the policies the populists present are those most likely to hurt the people they're pandering to. Europe has deep, deep structural problems. Very, very deep. And they disenfranchise millions from aspects of the country, most notably the labour force at present. But the fix is extraordinarily complex, and would likely result in a European Union in practice. The populists want to flush all the fixes currently undertaken and those in progress down the toilet. It's insanity. People will be so much worse off over the long-run.
What's happening in Europe will likely never happen here, or the UK and I'm willing to bet that the US will be impervious to it come to election time. The UK just elected a Muslim as the Mayor of London. The US elected the son of a Kenyan migrant, twice.
The thing about Australia and the UK and the US and most other countries is that we have a civic conception of nationhood rather than an ethnic one. It's the reason, I, as someone from a Jewish-Muslim background who was born in Turkey and migrated here when I was 6 months old has barely ever actually felt any sort of overt racism. I act like a native, but I don't look like one, and that doesn't seem to bother anyone.
In a lot of places in the world, basically everywhere else, they define nationality by ethnicity. If you're not that ethnicity then you shall never be accepted into civic society.
We're not perfect, not by a long shot...but we're better than most.
The thing about Australia and the UK and the US and most other countries is that we have a civic conception of nationhood rather than an ethnic one. It's the reason, I, as someone from a Jewish-Muslim background who was born in Turkey and migrated here when I was 6 months old has barely ever actually felt any sort of overt racism. I act like a native, but I don't look like one, and that doesn't seem to bother anyone.
In a lot of places in the world, basically everywhere else, they define nationality by ethnicity. If you're not that ethnicity then you shall never be accepted into civic society.
We're not perfect, not by a long shot...but we're better than most.
bobnowhere
Member
Newspoll still 51/49 ALP.
Abbott, the gift that keeps on giving!
All it would take is one smart, determined and charismatic leader for a similar far right movement to take off here. Reclaim Australia is packed with illiterate roided-up bogans, Hanson had/has the charisma of a bent spoon and other candidates like Danny Nalliah are just complete nutters. It's the wolf in sheep's clothing you need to worry about, it's no surprise Bernardi is best buddies with De Wilders.
Abbott, the gift that keeps on giving!
All it would take is one smart, determined and charismatic leader for a similar far right movement to take off here. Reclaim Australia is packed with illiterate roided-up bogans, Hanson had/has the charisma of a bent spoon and other candidates like Danny Nalliah are just complete nutters. It's the wolf in sheep's clothing you need to worry about, it's no surprise Bernardi is best buddies with De Wilders.
It's even less likely here in Australia because preferential voting makes it a lot harder for a more extreme party to flank the major ones. Remember that these anti-immigrant parties are becoming the main opposition parties or outright winning elections, like Austria last week and the True Fins in Finland.
I think it could happen. There is a far-right in the LNP, even if they're a very small voice sizewise, albeit louder than their size would show.
You mentioned earlier that Turnbull has been systematically purging the conservatives. Personally I enjoy it as I'm a small-l Liberal (I think), but if he overdoes it he could absolutely split the party. People will always seek representation if they don't feel they are getting it. Especially as (I'm fairly sure) the largest part of the LNP base is currently the conservative faction.
You combine Turnbull being overzealous with his attempts to remould the LNP with somebody like the Le Penn's from France and we could absolutely have a far-right party take off.
You mentioned earlier that Turnbull has been systematically purging the conservatives. Personally I enjoy it as I'm a small-l Liberal (I think), but if he overdoes it he could absolutely split the party. People will always seek representation if they don't feel they are getting it. Especially as (I'm fairly sure) the largest part of the LNP base is currently the conservative faction.
You combine Turnbull being overzealous with his attempts to remould the LNP with somebody like the Le Penn's from France and we could absolutely have a far-right party take off.
bobnowhere
Member
I don't think there is much chance of one dominating the lower house, but in say a DD, they happen you know
P), a far-right anti-immigration party could easily take half a dozen seats in the senate and if they held the balance of power it would cause complete havoc. The Coalition have already pushed the boat-panic button twice in 2 weeks, a very conservative coalition PM could easily jump into an uneasy understanding with one and then immigration issues would completely dominate the parliament.Now obviously our level of immigration is many orders lower than the current movement of people into Europe here and our far more multicultural society provides a level of insulation compared to the "mono-chromatic" culture in especially Eastern Europe but inattention can lead to the disenfranchised making bad decisions and you know what, that is probably more the fault of the major parties than those people themselves.
Hey, I like out little left-wing echo chamber!
Now I'm off to bed to dream of angels with wings of The Guardian newspaper and on my sheets made of The Saturday Paper.- Status