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AusPoliGAF |OT| Boats? What Boats?

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Mondy

Banned
Infrastructure? That's the thing you sell off to make it look like you're fiscally smart, right?

Don't worry, I have confidence (surprisingly) in the collective intelligence of the Australian community. They may have put that intellectual nobody as Paul Keating put it and his cronies into office, but the Coalition didn't win the election, Labor lost it.

The reaction to this fire sale of assets will only be negative where Abbott doesn't need any more negative sentiment. He will poll in the red for the entire duration of his term then give up government to a slim labor majority in 2016. Abbott will disappear into irrelevence as a one term wonder and it'll be time for the next Mining industry bitch to step up to the Liberal plate and have a few swings.
 

Arksy

Member
Don't worry, I have confidence (surprisingly) in the collective intelligence of the Australian community. They may have put that intellectual nobody as Paul Keating put it and his cronies into office, but the Coalition didn't win the election, Labor lost it.

The reaction to this fire sale of assets will only be negative where Abbott doesn't need any more negative sentiment. He will poll in the red for the entire duration of his term then give up government to a slim labor majority in 2016. Abbott will disappear into irrelevence as a one term wonder and it'll be time for the next Mining industry bitch to step up to the Liberal plate and have a few swings.

Labor have a good shot of 2020, not 2016 in my opinion. I honestly don't think Labor will really be really in time for 2016 to have a good shot. What they really need to do is reduce the Coalition's majority and get some new people into Parliament and push out some of the old sleaze. Once they do that with 4 years in Parliament the fresh blood will be able to have a good crack. I seriously doubt Bill has a chance. People just view him as a hack. (Then again, Abbott was universally hated)
 
I honestly didn't think it wouldn't be this bad when they won....but now, the long term implications of what they have started to do are actually quite terrible, I sometimes wonder if the general population cares? Quite depressing when you think about what the future could be like

Blissfully unaware. I work in a few different hospitals and i'm always meeting tons of new people and it's amazing how little anyone knows about politics. Even some of the smarter people really don't pay attention at all. Issues like the boat people are the only ones that ever rate a mention. Basically if the mainstream media aren't constantly telling people something is bad then they simply won't know or care about it.

That's basically how someone like Abbott was able to get voted in. I honestly didn't think he would do this bad though, the liberal party certainly have exceeded my expectations.
 

Tommy DJ

Member
The Greens destroyed the ALP. :(

Why do people honestly think this. People ditched the ALP because folks like NSW Labor (aka Labor Right) are the definition of awful.

No one who is remotely left leaning would tolerate the Labor Right so obviously they would choose a party that would better represent their views. In most cases, this would be the Greens.

They only have themselves to blame for the mess they have brought upon themselves.
 

Mondy

Banned
Why do people honestly think this. People ditched the ALP because folks like NSW Labor (aka Labor Right) are the definition of awful.

No one who is remotely left leaning would tolerate the Labor Right so obviously they would choose a party that would better represent their views. In most cases, this would be the Greens.

They only have themselves to blame for the mess they have brought upon themselves.

The Greens vote dropped at the last election, so I doubt that. Labors traditional Centre Left base have been increasing the primary vote of left leaning minor parties like Sex. They did amazingly well last election.
 

Arksy

Member
Why do people honestly think this. People ditched the ALP because folks like NSW Labor (aka Labor Right) are the definition of awful.

No one who is remotely left leaning would tolerate the Labor Right so obviously they would choose a party that would better represent their views. In most cases, this would be the Greens.

They only have themselves to blame for the mess they have brought upon themselves.

Actually the ALP right are the traditional bastion of the catholic and working class which dominate the ALP. The Greens forced the ALP down a policy pathway that basically caused a backlash among voters. It wasn't just the Greens, it was the independents as well. Labor stopped being a party that stood for anything besides staying in power.

It wasn't really so much Gillard's fault, she was in an impossible situation..but I can't feel too sorry for her considering it was her lack of confidence in Rudd that basically caused all of the ALPs woes. I have zero doubt that Kevin Rudd would've led the ALP to victory that election, and probably would've tackled the Senate without the Greenslide there.

I'm tired and partially drunk, so I might be more full of it than I normally am but oh well. :p
 

Tommy DJ

Member
Again, you believe Labor's implosion has been a recent thing that was instigated by the Greens? That's the narrative the national press likes to push but I hardly think its true.

The problem is with Labor themselves. Especially groups like NSW Labor. You'd be very hard pressed to convince anyone in NSW that NSW Labor are a political party that is both coherent in message and able to do the right thing most of the time. They haven't been able to do this since forever, that has nothing to do with Independents or the Greens.

The current Labor Right have got a hard on for the whole Third Way thing but are too incompetent to understand that they're only splitting their base by pissing over everyone and exacerbating this with actual incompetence and corruption. No matter how well a federal Labor government does, these negative aspects will drag down the successes of the government.

Suggesting that the Greens and Independents prevented Labor from being able to produce a coherent message ignores everything wrong with the current Labor. It ignores the fact that Labor was active in constantly letting people like Kristina Keneally run the reputation of their political party into the ground by letting them do everything a state government and politician should not do.
 

Lafiel

と呼ぶがよい
Blissfully unaware. I work in a few different hospitals and i'm always meeting tons of new people and it's amazing how little anyone knows about politics. Even some of the smarter people really don't pay attention at all. Issues like the boat people are the only ones that ever rate a mention. Basically if the mainstream media aren't constantly telling people something is bad then they simply won't know or care about it.
This also seems to explain the paradox that the majority in terms of democracies around the world always appear to vote against their own class interests. Of course there's a lot of manipulation by politicians there, especially in how they rally the masses over certain issues eg boat people.
 

Dryk

Member
Labor have a good shot of 2020, not 2016 in my opinion. I honestly don't think Labor will really be really in time for 2016 to have a good shot. What they really need to do is reduce the Coalition's majority and get some new people into Parliament and push out some of the old sleaze. Once they do that with 4 years in Parliament the fresh blood will be able to have a good crack. I seriously doubt Bill has a chance. People just view him as a hack. (Then again, Abbott was universally hated)
I have to believe that they can win in 2016 despite Shorten being weaker than tissue paper. I don't want to even think about what we'll be left with in 2020.
 

markot

Banned
Well, liberals and conservatives in general dont believe in infrastructure projects. Thats why their nbn is just a huge pile of shit.

Government isnt supposed to build stuff, just sell stuff other governments build.

The greens arent to blame. What did they do? The dissatisfied labour voters were always going to go somewhere, and their preferences generally flow towards labor anyway.
 

Dryk

Member
Well, liberals and conservatives in general dont believe in infrastructure projects. Thats why their nbn is just a huge pile of shit.

Government isnt supposed to build stuff, just sell stuff other governments build.
And it works out great for them. Put off building major infrastructure so that Labor governments have to spend even more to fix it which makes it easier to get themselves reelected. People are too quick to forget how our telecommunications infrastructure got this bad in the first place.
 
The comedy continues!

After moaning endlessly about Steve Bracks getting the NY consul job, jobs for the boys, one of the chief moaners gets the job! Of course in this case it will have nothing to do with jobs for the boys and is totally not a reward for Abbott's chief puppeteer.

MInchin gets his reward
 
A

A More Normal Bird

Unconfirmed Member
And it works out great for them. Put off building major infrastructure so that Labor governments have to spend even more to fix it which makes it easier to get themselves reelected. People are too quick to forget how our telecommunications infrastructure got this bad in the first place.
Hey now, there was an entire year between the government losing majority ownership of Telstra and the election where both parties pledged some form of NBN. How could they have known such an investment was on the horizon when technology moves so fast?

Incidentally, I can't get enough of the folks who say that technology moves too fast to make a fibre NBN worthwhile. You're right, it all moves too quickly, which is why we're better off with a mish mash of variable technology and high maintenance infrastructure instead of a slightly more expensive long term backbone.
 

Dryk

Member
Hey now, there was an entire year between the government losing majority ownership of Telstra and the election where both parties pledged some form of NBN. How could they have known such an investment was on the horizon when technology moves so fast?
It's over 11 years since the Broadband Advisory told the Howard government to hurry up and replace the network. Incidentally they recommended FTTN so technology can't be moving that fast ;)
 
A

A More Normal Bird

Unconfirmed Member
It's over 11 years since the Broadband Advisory told the Howard government to hurry up and replace the network. Incidentally they recommended FTTN so technology can't be moving that fast ;)
Well there you go then, FTTN is tried and true. I don't see why we should be so keen to move beyond it, after all, the Howard years were Australia's Golden Age; we need more of the sort of ideas that made the country great then and less of this "expert advice" that's put us in the current mess. We'll start with this working man's NBN, though maybe we could look into chucking a whole bunch of wireless towers everywhere because Tony reckons that these iPad things are the way of the future. I guess the next step is to tell people we're really worried about this global warming thing, but make it so our policies only do the bare minimum so we can change our stance when the fad has worn off. Then finally we should choose one economic measure at random - preferably one that was really high or low at one point under Labor - and then treat it like it's the be all and end all of good management. How are interest rates these days? Hmmm, that's pretty low actually. Oh well, I'm sure we'll find something to use.

Think that's pretty much it - actually, one more. Be really sketchy about the actual details of what's going on with the Navy and asylum seeker boats as well, that's usually a winner.
 

Arksy

Member
Well there you go then, FTTN is tried and true. I don't see why we should be so keen to move beyond it, after all, the Howard years were Australia's Golden Age; we need more of the sort of ideas that made the country great then and less of this "expert advice" that's put us in the current mess. We'll start with this working man's NBN, though maybe we could look into chucking a whole bunch of wireless towers everywhere because Tony reckons that these iPad things are the way of the future. I guess the next step is to tell people we're really worried about this global warming thing, but make it so our policies only do the bare minimum so we can change our stance when the fad has worn off. Then finally we should choose one economic measure at random - preferably one that was really high or low at one point under Labor - and then treat it like it's the be all and end all of good management. How are interest rates these days? Hmmm, that's pretty low actually. Oh well, I'm sure we'll find something to use.

Think that's pretty much it - actually, one more. Be really sketchy about the actual details of what's going on with the Navy and asylum seeker boats as well, that's usually a winner.

Ahh a man after my own heart.
 

lexi

Banned
I have to believe that they can win in 2016 despite Shorten being weaker than tissue paper. I don't want to even think about what we'll be left with in 2020.

Mad Max was a documentary set after years of an Abbott Government. Are you ready for Thunderdome?
 

magenta

Member
I have to believe that they can win in 2016 despite Shorten being weaker than tissue paper. I don't want to even think about what we'll be left with in 2020.

I bet Paul Howes is calculating his ascent to be a big player at that point.
 

wonzo

Banned
I bet Paul Howes is calculating his ascent to be a big player at that point.
The only thing people know and remember about Paul Howes is his role in knifing a (at the time) popular PM. The overpaid scab has no chance in anything political.
 

Mondy

Banned
Attorney-General George Brandis has foreshadowed changes to copyright laws in a speech delivered in Canberra today.

Senator Brandis says he may ask providers to issue warnings to customers, or block sites where content can be illegally downloaded.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-...-government-to-target-internet-piracy/5261404

Blocking websites where material can be downloaded.

In other words, an internet filter.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-...is-brisbane-seat-to-labor/5261444?section=qld

A new opinion poll shows Queensland Premier Campbell Newman would probably lose his Brisbane seat if an election was held this weekend.

The Galaxy poll, commissioned by Channel Nine, surveyed 500 voters in Mr Newman's Brisbane seat of Ashgrove.

It shows the LNP's primary vote has dropped from almost 52 per cent at the March 2012 election to 41 per cent now.

Labor's vote has improved from about 37 per cent to 43 per cent.

After preferences, Labor has a winning lead of 53 to 47 per cent.

Another Galaxy Poll this week showed a similar result across the state for the LNP.

The figures released today confirm that Mr Newman is in the same doubtful position as many of his colleagues in Parliament.

The survey found 44 per cent of voters were less likely to vote for the LNP because of the Government's anti-bikie laws.

Opposition leader Annastacia Palaszczuk says she would like Kate Jones to run again in Ashgrove, but the former Labor MP has other things on her mind right now.

"We'll be having more preselections over the coming months," Ms Palaszczuk said.

"I've had preliminary discussions with Kate Jones of course, but I think Kate is due to have a baby within the week so we'll let Kate concentrate on having her baby and then I'll have a catch-up with her in the very near future."

Goodbye and good riddance you little snot.
 
Blocking websites where material can be downloaded.

In other words, an internet filter.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-...is-brisbane-seat-to-labor/5261444?section=qld



Goodbye and good riddance you little snot.

I thought the idea was they were going to parachute him into a much safer seat at some point. Probably just have to find the right time and the right candidate to be forcefully evicted! I imagine they will distract everyone will some law and order nonsense and then come up with some reason late on a friday afternoon.
 

Mondy

Banned
I thought the idea was they were going to parachute him into a much safer seat at some point. Probably just have to find the right time and the right candidate to be forcefully evicted! I imagine they will distract everyone will some law and order nonsense and then come up with some reason late on a friday afternoon.

That would go over like a rort iron hang glider and I think the Libs know it. He is a liability to them now and any desperate effort by them to keep him around would be unbelievably dumb.
 

Dryk

Member
Its nice to see this concern for the profit of VPN businesses. The encouragement to encrypt data given revelations about spying is nice too.
 

lexi

Banned
Yeah, Queenslanders were dumb enough to elect Can Do Campbell™ the first time so there's no reason to believe they won't a second time either! ;)

The Liberals never really won, rather another situation where Labor lost. There was a toxic media narrative with Anna Bligh similar to what happened with Julia Gillard. There was massive manufactured outrage over assets sell-offs, which if you asked any fuckwit why they were voting Liberal, they'd probably give you that reason, not even appreciating the irony that Liberals sell off shit all the fucking time.
 
Attorney-General George Brandis has foreshadowed changes to copyright laws in a speech delivered in Canberra today.

Senator Brandis says he may ask providers to issue warnings to customers, or block sites where content can be illegally downloaded.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-...-government-to-target-internet-piracy/5261404

Meanwhile, everyone at the conference that speech was delivered at basically thought he was making a fool of himself, pointing out the academic research which has shown that things like the 3 strikes model (which Brandis suggested we should be looking at) simply don't work.

The Twitter hashtag for the event was #ADA14, if you want to read.
 

wonzo

Banned
The Liberals never really won, rather another situation where Labor lost. There was a toxic media narrative with Anna Bligh similar to what happened with Julia Gillard. There was massive manufactured outrage over assets sell-offs, which if you asked any fuckwit why they were voting Liberal, they'd probably give you that reason, not even appreciating the irony that Liberals sell off shit all the fucking time.
The fact that the electorate elected the Libs due to anger over privatisation tells you all that needs to be said over the critical thinking skills of your average QLD voter.
 

Mondy

Banned
The fact that the electorate elected the Libs due to anger over privatisation tells you all that needs to be said over the critical thinking skills of your average QLD voter.

Sadly true, and the fact one of our electorates sent Clive Palmer to the House of Reps.
 

Arksy

Member
Gotta love Australian politics, any choice you make is by default the worst choice to make. Nothing will change until we reform our system. We'll keep getting a huge disconnect between the electorate and the elected and we'll keep having to focus on those marginal swing issues. :/
 

Dryk

Member
Gotta love Australian politics, any choice you make is by default the worst choice to make. Nothing will change until we reform our system. We'll keep getting a huge disconnect between the electorate and the elected and we'll keep having to focus on those marginal swing issues. :/
We're not as bad as the US yet but reform's still pretty hard. I mean the last time people called for reform they were trying to further entrench the major parties.
 

hidys

Member
The Liberals never really won, rather another situation where Labor lost. There was a toxic media narrative with Anna Bligh similar to what happened with Julia Gillard. There was massive manufactured outrage over assets sell-offs, which if you asked any fuckwit why they were voting Liberal, they'd probably give you that reason, not even appreciating the irony that Liberals sell off shit all the fucking time.

There is certainly truth in that, but it is important to note that the election campaign in 09 was entirely run on the issue of privatization and it is very likely Labor won the election based on the issue. It is also the one issue which Newman is refusing to touch at the moment because he knows how politically toxic the issue is.
 

Mondy

Banned
Get ready AusGAF, you might wanna sit down for this one.

The single largest factor in the underlying deterioration of the federal budget announced by Treasurer Joe Hockey in December was a cash payout of almost $900 million to Rupert Murdoch’s News Corporation.

The massive windfall, revealed in the US group’s accounts a week ago in New York, was at a time when News Corp newspapers were highly critical of the budget and called for deep cuts.

The drama over the payout, one of the largest cash payments made by the Tax Office, played out behind the scenes during the federal election.

On July 25 the Federal Court of Appeal ruled against the Tax Office to allow News Corp to claim a $2 billion deduction from a series of paper shuffles between subsidiaries.

At the time, The Australian Financial Review speculated the win would be worth up to $600 million in future tax benefits, but interest charges had pushed the payout far higher.

The Tax Office was deciding whether to appeal against the judgment as News Corp newspapers launched a ferocious attack on the government, kicking off with the Daily Telegraph’s headline on August 5, 11 days after the court judgment: “Kick this mob out.” In the following days, Labor leader Kevin Rudd would claim that News Corp was running a virulent anti-government campaign in exchange for concessions from the Coalition.

The Tax Office had 28 days to lodge an appeal, a deadline of August 22.

News Corp later reported that the ATO had advised it would not appeal the case. An ATO spokeswoman said all decisions on whether to appeal a court decision are made by senior officers after seeking external legal opinion.

News Corp’s half-year accounts say “a foreign tax authority” paid $A882 million, in instalments. This included the original tax plus several hundred million dollars of interest.

From the moment the decision was made in late August not to appeal, the payout was an outgoing that had to be applied to the federal budget.

In the December mid-year update, Mr Hockey revealed a major blowout in the 2014 deficit since Labor’s statement on August 1 that underlined the need for major spending cuts.

http://www.afr.com/p/business/marketing_media/news_corp_blew_the_budget_DFlluROVi0F6CV1fQ5UJvJ

Yes, you read that correctly. Almost 1 billion dollars in cash payouts. I just...I can't even...
 

Arksy

Member
Hang on, I haven't had the time to really peer over it but the money was given by the ATO through a Court...is someone suggesting foul play? :S
 

Mondy

Banned
Hang on, I haven't had the time to really peer over it but the money was given by the ATO through a Court...is someone suggesting foul play? :S

It's all over a 2 billion dollar tax deduction. 2 BILLION dollars.

If I'm understanding it right, the ATO were attempting to withhold the money because of Newscorps documented practice of using tax havens.
 

Tommy DJ

Member
Following recent posts on how terrible our immigration propaganda is, Scott Morrison reflects the mentality and beliefs of the average True Blue Australian:

BARRIE CASSIDY: Three days ago an Indian student took his own life at a detention centre in Melbourne. He was in that centre because he overstayed his visa. Could that have been avoided?

SCOTT MORRISON: Could he have avoided overstaying his visa?

From Insiders yesterday.
 

hidys

Member
Hang on, I haven't had the time to really peer over it but the money was given by the ATO through a Court...is someone suggesting foul play? :S

Not sure about foul play, but definitely gross hypocrisy on the part of The Australian.
 

Arksy

Member
News Ltd and the ATO had a dispute regarding deductions, so they took it to Court and the Court decided that News Ltd was right...This doesn't really seem to be such a breaking story at all. I mean, I'd totally understand why no one really cared. Yes the amounts are large but eh, I thought someone was indicating some sort of foul play. This just seems like the correct application of the law and an instance of everything working properly. It's just that some might view the law to be badly constructed. People can jump up and down and say the law is bullshit and it should be changed, which is a completely valid stance, but to say that the government shouldn't have handed over the money that News Ltd was entitled to under the law would be an absurd argument.
 
News Ltd and the ATO had a dispute regarding deductions, so they took it to Court and the Court decided that News Ltd was right...This doesn't really seem to be such a breaking story at all. I mean, I'd totally understand why no one really cared. Yes the amounts are large but eh, I thought someone was indicating some sort of foul play. This just seems like the correct application of the law and an instance of everything working properly. It's just that some might view the law to be badly constructed. People can jump up and down and say the law is bullshit and it should be changed, which is a completely valid stance, but to say that the government shouldn't have handed over the money that News Ltd was entitled to under the law would be an absurd argument.

The issue is that News Ltd outlets widely echoed the Coalition's explanation that shortfalls in their budget were due to profligate spending by Labour, which was a fabrication of which they were intimately aware.
 
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