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[Aaronrules380]

Not necessarily. Evangelion is a deconstruction of the mecha genre not because of how realistic its characters act in typical tropey situations, but because of how wrong things can go depending on the different ways characters can react to those situations.

Corvo said it best in his Eva post a year ago, but the important parts are here:

I mean, I agree the Eva deals with a lot of the tropes in a way that's pretty much opposite a lot of the standard super robot shows did. But I was arguing based on a definition of deconstruction that was presented previously that suggested that deconstructing a genre was about realism. If you go by that definition, I don't think Evangelion can really be considered a deconstruction. Being on the opposite extreme of the standard super robot show still means Eva really isn't any more realistic, just very, very different

 

[NaDannMaGoGo]

I really don't see how Eva can be considered a coming of age show, when literally all of the stuff dealing with Shinji moving past his depression in any way are shoved into the last two episodes (which likely would've been handled differently if there weren't production issues). And even that's way more about overcoming depression, and not growing up as a whole.

Really? Nothing like struggling with sexuality is visible in Evangelion? Or anything about taking responsibility?

No?

Oh and you missed the other points I made. Really though, let's just end this discussion after all.

 

[Puruzi]

/v/ has been terrible for a long time. At least /a/ is fine besides some lewd stuff.

yeah, but /v/'s funny. /a/ is pretty good, but it was better before some idiot new mod swooped in and started removing anything with nipples until the owner had to tell him to stop.

that weekend was the funniest shit, the storm was huge

 

[Aaronrules380]

Really? Nothing like struggling with sexuality is visible in Evangelion? Or anything about taking responsibility?

No?

Oh and you missed the other points I made. Really though, let's just end this discussion after all.

Just including those aspects isn't really relevant if they never grow up in those respects if you're talking about coming of age. And about the other point, in an allegory you need to have characters that represent the ideas and concepts you're trying to explore. Eva is very much an allegory for Anno's own battle with depression. It's about exploring the concepts of depression and presenting a way to deal with it

 

[Phatmac]

yeah, but /v/'s funny. /a/ is pretty good, but it was better before some idiot new mod swooped in and started removing anything with nipples until the owner had to tell him to stop.

that weekend was the funniest shit, the storm was huge

/v/ is infested with Undertale shit which makes me dislike the game even thought I think it's still a good game. It's a strange board filled with young people that don't have any knowledge of older games besides lps. Plus gg arguments and feminist discussions are just trash. At least the fire emblem threads are good.

 

[Clov]

I mean, I agree the Eva deals with a lot of the tropes in a way that's pretty much opposite a lot of the standard super robot shows did. But I was arguing based on a definition of deconstruction that was presented previously that suggested that deconstructing a genre was about realism. If you go by that definition, I don't think Evangelion can really be considered a deconstruction. Being on the opposite extreme of the standard super robot show still means Eva really isn't any more realistic, just very, very different

As someone who has studied the concept of deconstruction, and as someone who's had this conversation here before, it's definitely not. I'll be honest; I'm still not sure exactly what deconstruction is (probably because Jacques Derrida is actively spiting me from his grave) but it's not something so simple to wrap your head around. We shouldn't get our definitions for these things from TV Tropes.

 

[Aaronrules380]

As someone who's studied the concept of deconstruction, and as someone who's had this conversation here before, it's definitely not. I'll be honest; I'm still not sure exactly what deconstruction is (probably because Jacques Derrida is actively spiting me from his grave) but it's not something so simple to wrap your head around. We shouldn't get our definitions for these things from TV Tropes.

I don't disagree with you. I was just arguing on the premise that was being presented.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Yeah I still don't get what the fuck a deconstruction is. Maybe that makes me a literary scrub but whatever.

 

[John Blade]

Third batch of item order from Right Stuff Christmas Sales. So many good anime on sale....so little time to watch all at once. Here is the list of my order

ef ~ A Tale of Memories Blu-ray Season 1
ef ~ A Tale of Memories Blu-ray Season 2
Kobato Collection 1 DVD
Kobato Collection 2 DVD
Gokusen DVD
Kids on the Slope Blu-ray
Towanoquon Blu-ray
Dirty Pair Flash Complete Collection DVD
Dirty Pair OVA Series DVD
Dirty Pair Collection 1 DVD Litebox
Dirty Pair Collection 2 DVD Litebox
Dirty Pair Features DVD
Birdy the Mighty: Decode Complete Series DVD
Armitage III Complete Saga DVD Anime Classics (2nd Ed)
Patlabor Movie Blu-ray
Brave Story Manga Bundle

 

[Clov]

Yeah I still don't get what the fuck a deconstruction is. Maybe that makes me a literary scrub but whatever.

It really doesn't. None of the students I met in grad school wanted to touch Derrida's writing with a 10 foot pole; there were easier, and more interesting topics to research and write about. One of the reasons he's so famous in the first place is that all his writing is really dense and obtuse.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

It really doesn't. None of the students I met in grad school wanted to touch Derrida's writing with a 10 foot pole; there were easier, and more interesting topics to research and write about. One of the reasons he's so famous in the first place is that all his writing is really dense and obtuse.

Yeah, some writers like Derrida give me the same feeling as Quantum Physics, where its so abstruse and heavy on terminology that I don't understand what they are talking about and I'm not sure they really do either.

 

[Phatmac]

Yeah I still don't get what the fuck a deconstruction is. Maybe that makes me a literary scrub but whatever.

I have to look up the exact definition every time it gets brought up in discussions and my brain melts. I've just realized that I'm just not cut out for it and go watch cute moe shows to get dumber.

 

[Puruzi]

nerds

 

[Phatmac]

nerds

Let's just talk about who our favorite K-on girl is instead ok?

 

[Joe Molotov]

Let's just talk about who our favorite K-on girl is instead ok?

Mugi of course.

 

[NaDannMaGoGo]

As someone who has studied the concept of deconstruction, and as someone who's had this conversation here before, it's definitely not. I'll be honest; I'm still not sure exactly what deconstruction is (probably because Jacques Derrida is actively spiting me from his grave) but it's not something so simple to wrap your head around. We shouldn't get our definitions for these things from TV Tropes.

I mean I'm pretty sure that TvTropes definition is how the term deconstruction is mostly used within the anime discussion space, even though that may not be true to the original meaning?

Thing is, if not, it would be nice if someone could explain in relatively simple terms what the actual meaning is instead.

Because this abstract from Wikipedia's deconstruction page is a tough pill to swallow and I'm not sure if the TvTropes definition actually contradicts it or anything. Or even has anything to do with it.

Literary criticism
Derrida's method consisted in demonstrating all the forms and varieties of the originary complexity of semiotics, and their multiple consequences in many fields. His way of achieving this was by conducting thorough, careful, sensitive, and yet transformational readings of philosophical and literary texts, with an ear to what in those texts runs counter to their apparent systematicity (structural unity) or intended sense (authorial genesis). By demonstrating the aporias and ellipses of thought, Derrida hoped to show the infinitely subtle ways that this originary complexity, which by definition cannot ever be completely known, works its structuring and destructuring effects.

Deconstruction denotes the pursuing of the meaning of a text to the point of exposing the supposed contradictions and internal oppositions upon which it is founded—supposedly showing that those foundations are irreducibly complex, unstable, or impossible. It is an approach that may be deployed in philosophy, in literary analysis, and even in the analysis of scientific writings. Deconstruction generally tries to demonstrate that any text is not a discrete whole but contains several irreconcilable and contradictory meanings; that any text therefore has more than one interpretation; that the text itself links these interpretations inextricably; that the incompatibility of these interpretations is irreducible; and thus that an interpretative reading cannot go beyond a certain point. Derrida refers to this point as an "aporia" in the text; thus, deconstructive reading is termed "aporetic." He insists that meaning is made possible by the relations of a word to other words within the network of structures that language is.

Derrida initially resisted granting to his approach the overarching name "deconstruction," on the grounds that it was a precise technical term that could not be used to characterize his work generally. Nevertheless, he eventually accepted that the term had come into common use to refer to his textual approach, and Derrida himself increasingly began to use the term in this more general way.

If no one else really knows we should either simply continue using TvTropes definition or toss the entire term aside and never use it again.

 

[Phatmac]

Mugi of course.

Mio you heathen.

 

[Line_HTX]

Mugi is best.

 

[Puruzi]

haven't even watched K-On, but from looking at the characters, I can say with absolute certainty that Mugi is the best

eyebrows

 

[Clov]

I mean I'm pretty sure that TvTropes definition is how the term deconstruction is mostly used within the anime discussion space, even though that may not be true to the original meaning?

Thing is, if not, it would be nice if someone could explain in relatively simple terms what the actual meaning is instead.

Because this abstract from Wikipedia's deconstruction page is a tough pill to swallow and I'm not sure if the TvTropes definition actually contradicts it or anything. Or even has anything to do with it.

If no one else really knows we should either simply continue using TvTropes definition or toss the entire term aside and never use it again.

TV Tropes' definition pretty much has nothing to do with what actual deconstruction is. As you can already tell from that brief description, it's a lot more complex than just subverting cliches or making outlandish things "realistic". Personally I think it's better not to use the term at all than to use it wrong consistently.

Yeah, some writers like Derrida give me the same feeling as Quantum Physics, where its so abstruse and heavy on terminology that I don't understand what they are talking about and I'm not sure they really do either.

Funny story; a professor I knew told me that he once went to an academic conference on Derrida's work. Derrida himself was there, and some scholars were releasing papers that they claimed simplified his work to make it more easily understandable. After they read off their papers, Derrida himself was invited to speak. He proceeded to explain how everything they had written about his work was entirely wrong.

Not sure if it's true or not, but I like to think it is.

 

[Joe Molotov]

haven't even watched K-On, but from looking at the characters, I can say with absolute certainty that Mugi is the best

eyebrows

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGgSC767UWg

 

[Puruzi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGgSC767UWg

what

 

[striferser]

Osomatsu-san 9
First skit is basically reality ensues in crane story.
Karamatsu and Chibita part was okay, but damn, Chibita soak himself in his broth!? nasty...

2nd half is a lot better with Jyushimatsu love story. The final part was hearbreaking. This kind of story been done to death, but i still like it. The girl who fell in love with Jyushimatsu sure has dark backstory

Spoiler

i think the show implied she done AV work and regret it, hence why she cut her wrist and trying to kill herself

 

[Twin Tails]

 

[Phatmac]

...Holy shit was I not prepared for the second part of the episode. Jyushimatsu transformation this episode was bizarre at first but relatable as people change when falling in love. The subtle clues and hints towards future events plus the cute moments between him and her date was amazing. I'm sure most of us have experienced failed dates and breakups but the circumstances surrounding this one plus the

Spoiler

JAV industry which is at times a desperate plea for help for unfortunate situations

was heartbreaking to see. This is coming from a gag show that hasn't taken itself seriously yet still works is remarkable. As a big Gintama fan this easily trumps anything Gintama has done in a long time. Osomatsu has reached Gintama levels of greatness with this episode. Easily the best show of the season. Had me bawling with her revelation near the end plus Oso being the best big brother ever with keeping her secret and encouraging Jushi to go say goodbye to her. Simply amazing. More people need to watch this.

 

[ZachDeKoromaru]

Let's just talk about who our favorite K-on girl is instead ok?

Sawa-chan-sensei
Nodoka
Tony Iommi

 

[ibyea]

Yeah, some writers like Derrida give me the same feeling as Quantum Physics, where its so abstruse and heavy on terminology that I don't understand what they are talking about and I'm not sure they really do either.

As a physics major, I would say it is more the equivalent of reading Newton's Principia because in that book, it doesn't matter if you know physics, reading it is torture and slower than watching paint dry.

 

[Firemind]

meido sux

but yes yui is best

 

[Phatmac]

Osomatsu-san 9
First skit is basically reality ensues in crane story.
Karamatsu and Chibita part was okay, but damn, Chibita soak himself in his broth!? nasty...

2nd half is a lot better with Jyushimatsu love story. The final part was hearbreaking. This kind of story been done to death, but i still like it. The girl who fell in love with Jyushimatsu sure has dark backstory

Spoiler

i think the show implied she done AV work and regret it, hence why she cut her wrist and trying to kill herself

Her wearing his wristband which means his name in Japaneese in order to stop her was brilliant. God this episode was amazing.

 

[NaDannMaGoGo]

TV Tropes' definition pretty much has nothing to do with what actual deconstruction is. As you can already tell from that brief description, it's a lot more complex than just subverting cliches or making outlandish things "realistic". Personally I think it's better not to use the term at all than to use it wrong consistently.

I mean since the term in these anime discussion has this specific context though, it would be kinda dumb to not just use it for that.

If the worst is that people could point out that it actually means something entirely else that's however too complicated to really understand and facilitate then, meh. You wouldn't even look like a chump to anyone outside those discussions.

I get that it still sucks using a term wrongly, especially when Derrida's meaning is likely coherent, disregarding the difficulty to understand it. He's the expert after all :d

Or we could use another term than deconstruction but this one sounds nice and who'd bother.

 

[Jaxec]

I'm mad excited to watch the new Osomatsu-San when I get home! Just reading all the positives responses from everyone here is hyping me up!

 

[Basileus777]

I mean since the term in these anime discussion has this specific context though, it would be kinda dumb to not just use it for that.

Or just use a term that actually applies (like subversion), instead of a twisted TV tropes definition that will just turn every single conversation into one about how you are using the wrong term.

 

[Clov]

I mean since the term in these anime discussion has this specific context though, it would be kinda dumb to not just use it for that.

If the worst is that people could point out that it actually means something entirely else that's however too complicated to really understand and facilitate then, meh. You wouldn't even look like a chump to anyone outside those discussions.

I get that it still sucks using a term wrongly, especially when Derrida's meaning is likely coherent, disregarding the difficulty to understand it. He's the expert after all :d

Or we could use another term than deconstruction but this one sounds nice and who'd bother.

I'd suggest people use something like subversion to describe what they're assuming deconstruction is, but I doubt anyone would listen. It's nice to want things, but I doubt I'll have it my way in this case.

 

[Phatmac]

I'm mad excited to watch the new Osomatsu-San when I get home! Just reading all the positives responses from everyone here is hyping me up!

Hope I'm not hyping it up too much but man did it blow me away. Honestly everything else this season hasn't touched me as much as this episode did. My favorite show of the season thanks to this episode.

 

[Cornbread78]

Hyouka ep.13-15
This cultural festival arc is a little more interesting than the previous couple for sure. The show and characters are interesting enough but I'm still waiting for amazing to happen. I think I may have set my expectations waaaay too high with thus show, lol.





BTW, the new Let's Watch for Mirai Nikki is up. Watch it with us, or stop by and chat it up.
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1148250

 

[sonicmj1]

Clannad: After Story 18

Even though Clannad keeps doing this thing where they have a perfectly great moment that's been properly set up by the writing so far, and then they go over the top highlighting why it's sad to the point that it starts getting less sad, this episode was still devastatingly effective emotionally. Father-child stuff is my biggest weak point with the possible exception of dogs. I shudder to think how utterly destroyed I would have been if this were handled even better.

Spoiler

Peak moments dragged down slightly by the things that follow. Like,

Spoiler

"Sanae said I could cry in the bathroom and in Papa's arms."?

Come on.

It's good to see Tomoya starting to get past his depression and self-loathing and realizing

Spoiler

that his daughter loves him unconditionally and that he can make a big difference in her life. I was frustrated watching him be a big sourpuss through the last few episodes when the show tries so hard (despite the Key designs) to make Ushio cute. Why isn't he trying to make her happy? What's wrong with him!? Now he can finally see what was right in front of him.

This episode could have been a beautiful ending for the show in its own right, so I'm not really sure where they're going from here. Obviously he needs to see his dad again at some point, but beyond that...

 

[Jaxec]

Hope I'm not hyping it up too much but man did it blow me away. Honestly everything else this season hasn't touched me as much as this episode did. My favorite show of the season thanks to this episode.

Happy to hear it. I already really love the show. More so than the comedy, I just really like the brothers and their interactions. I also feel this show is capable of touching on other mature topics so hearing about what was covered in this episode just put a huge smile on my face.

 

[Phatmac]

While this season won't be as great as the past two it's still a comfy show to unwind with. It dealt with sister relationships and how they've changed while creating new ones with Yui's family. This cute scene melted my heart.

 

[NaDannMaGoGo]

Or just use a term that actually applies (like subversion), instead of a twisted TV tropes definition that will just turn every single conversation into one about how you are using the wrong term.

I'd suggest people use something like subversion to describe what they're assuming deconstruction is, but I doubt anyone would listen. It's nice to want things, but I doubt I'll have it my way in this case.

Subversion isn't the same as that TvTrope deconstruction definition, though.

I like the idea that this deconstruction puts a certain premise that's got a bunch of tropes attached to it into a (more) realistic light. A subversion has nothing directly to do with the latter. Though it's common to have subversions that go that direction.

But yeh, mentioning subversion might be good enough. Can always just state the bit about realism in addition.

 

[Phatmac]

Clannad: After Story 18

Even though Clannad keeps doing this thing where they have a perfectly great moment that's been properly set up by the writing so far, and then they go over the top highlighting why it's sad to the point that it starts getting less sad, this episode was still devastatingly effective emotionally. Father-child stuff is my biggest weak point with the possible exception of dogs. I shudder to think how utterly destroyed I would have been if this were handled even better.



It's good to see Tomoya starting to get past his depression and self-loathing and realizing

Spoiler

that his daughter loves him unconditionally and that he can make a big difference in her life. I was frustrated watching him be a big sourpuss through the last few episodes when the show tries so hard (despite the Key designs) to make Ushio cute. Why isn't he trying to make her happy? What's wrong with him!? Now he can finally see what was right in front of him.

This episode could have been a beautiful ending for the show in its own right, so I'm not really sure where they're going from here. Obviously he needs to see his dad again at some point, but beyond that...

Probably one of the few scenes that'll make me cry like a baby. This comes from someone who played the VN and still cried like a baby during this scene. The show and VN give us great insight and relationship building between Tomoya and Nagisa for us to believe they're a couple to advancing into parts where anime shows would never cross. It's why Clannad AS remains one of the best shows in the medium as it breaks down the victory of seeing a couple form and makes us realize how difficult it can be to actually make it work with things like work and responsibility setting in for our happy-go-lucky high schoolers who have no clue how the real world works. Certain aspects are obviously cliche at times but te core of their evolution as a couple still works.

Spoiler

The death of Nagisa takes truly destroys Tomoya and a certain part of me can't blame him for trying to escape his problems

but I'm glad the show calls him out on it and makes him realize that he has to be there for his daughter. That scene in the train is soul crushing and I still can't watch it without stopping myself from crying.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Kurobas episodes 22.5 and 41.5 added to CR

It's Monday here at Crunchyroll, and today we've got the 2 OVAs from Kuroko's Basketball coming your way at 7pm and 7:30pm Pacific Time!

The Kuroko's Basketball OVAs will be available in the same territories as the series: U.S.A., Canada, United Kingdom, Ireland, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Denmark, Finland, Netherlands, Norway, and Sweden.

The OVAs are episodes 22.5 and 41.5, in seasons 1 and 2, respectively.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

"More realistic" isn't the same as dark.

 

[Narag]

Anyhow, thought it might be fun to toy with the idea of New Year’s resolution nonsense (past the universal one we all share of watching less anime) and having folk picking some backlog stuff to finally get to this year rather than putting off for one reason or another. More than likely it’s something popular that might engender some discussion rather than people talking past one another and, frankly, deadline pressure doesn’t hurt. I wouldn’t get too involved though given how life can throw one a curveball nor would I expect everyone to post about every episode watched but hey, there’s still good stuff for most of us to watch yet.

To get us started, I took an informal poll of some people to help serve as an example. Something, say, like one long series, a couple short series, a handful of movies, or some sort of combination would be ideal. It’s not meant to be a burden but rather that extra push to chisel away at the lingering part of the ol’ backlog.

Deputy Dangle

• Hyouka
• Wolf's Rain

darkside31337

• Hunter x Hunter (2011)
  

dresden

• Armored Trooper VOTOMS
• The Last Red Shoulder
• Mellowlink

firehawk12

• last 13 eps of Utena

gashikunFLCL

• The rest of Urusei Yatsura

haly

• Hidasketch

Mature

• Hyouka
• Wolf's Rain
  [*]Irresponsible Captain Tylor
• The rest of Urusei Yatsura

madpierrot

• Hunter x Hunter (2011)
  [*]Turn A Gundam
  [*]Digimon S1
  

MetroidPrimeRib

• Gintama

Mr. Jeff

• Gundam Build Fighters

Narag

• Rest of the Ghibli films not seen yet
• ZZ Gundam
  [*]Last half of Hyouka
• Mazinger Z
  [*]Space Adventure Cobra TV

SliceSabre

• Gundam 00
• Turn A Gundam

sonicmj1

• 
  [*]Armored Trooper VOTOMS
• the rest of Mushishi

survivor

• Kare Kano
• Kimi no Todoke

ZachDeKoromaru

• Cowboy Bebop
• Sailor Moon S

Anyhow, I’ll leave this open until the end of the month and finalize it then if there’s enough interest. We can all have a good laugh at MPR when everyone but him has finished at the end of the year.

god i thoguht i was doing good but apparently zz gundam is on my list too. fuck everything

 

[ZachDeKoromaru]

god i thoguht i was doing good but apparently zz gundam is on my list too. fuck everything

I'm going to tackle that fuckin' Bebop BD this weekend. Also I know what I want to put in next year's already!

 

[e_i]

Yuru Yuri San Hai episode 9

R.I.P. Chitose.

Spoiler

If I posted the scene that gives her that nosebleed, I'd be banned.

 

[Basileus777]

"More realistic" isn't the same as dark.

Akame ga Kill, a realistic and dark deconstruction.

Spoiler

Someone probably believes this.

 

[Cornbread78]

Clannad: After Story 18

Even though Clannad keeps doing this thing where they have a perfectly great moment that's been properly set up by the writing so far, and then they go over the top highlighting why it's sad to the point that it starts getting less sad, this episode was still devastatingly effective emotionally. Father-child stuff is my biggest weak point with the possible exception of dogs. I shudder to think how utterly destroyed I would have been if this were handled even better.

It's good to see Tomoya starting to get past his depression and self-loathing and realizing

Spoiler

that his daughter loves him unconditionally and that he can make a big difference in her life. I was frustrated watching him be a big sourpuss through the last few episodes when the show tries so hard (despite the Key designs) to make Ushio cute. Why isn't he trying to make her happy? What's wrong with him!? Now he can finally see what was right in front of him.

This episode could have been a beautiful ending for the show in its own right, so I'm not really sure where they're going from here. Obviously he needs to see his dad again at some point, but beyond that...

It's funny because I can't honestly tell if you had tears if emotion based on the show or tears because you hate it, lol. It didn't appear to go overboard at all for simple reasons really.

As a father of little girls, that scene in the field broke my soul.

Spoiler

There are many inherent truths about parenting and children in that sequence that you cannot ignore. Everytime I watch that part, it touches me deeply and serves as a good reminder to all parents how the little things in life with you family, often mean the most. That part about crying in his arms is a fatal gunshot from Sanae, the best mom/grandma in anime. I tear up just thinking about the gif of that very moment when Ushio jumps into Tomoya's arma aND says those words.. shit

He was too busy caught up in his own misery to realize this, them the second scene on the train when he talks about Nagisa gets me every time as he finally gets it. The whole episode is brilliant as Tomoya finally gets the full picture of his childhood as well as what he needs to do in his own life. To me, it is excellent writing to bring things full circle at that moment.

god I thought I was doing good but apparently zz gundam is on my list too. fuck everything

Wow, I missed this one last year, well, I could have had a million shows on my list, since I had just finished my first at that point. Scary to think about how much I've seen in a year..

 

[Phatmac]

Akame ga Kill, a realistic and dark deconstruction.

Spoiler

Someone probably believes this.

Ugh, that is a sickening thought.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Wow, I missed this one last year, well, I could have had a million shows on my list, since I had just finished my first at that point. Scary to think about how much I've seen in a year..

The list is for people who are stubborn and don't start shows, dude. We could have like 20 shows for you and it wouldn't be enough.

 

[Narag]

Wow, I missed this one last year, well, I could have had a million shows on my list, since I had just finished my first at that point. Scary to think about how much I've seen in a year..

I'll be maintaining it again next year. I already have some human sacrifices lined up.

GET
HYPE