There you go. fixed for you.
Avalanche (Just Cause) - Wii U dev kits collecting dust, Nintendo is hard to reach
- Thread starter Flightmare
- Start date
There you go. fixed for you.
Wait. So, let me get this straight...
You took my criticism of the general state of Nintendo's relationship with 3rd parties, and knowingly contrasted it with a subsection of 3rd parties where Nintendo has made some positive moves and used to paint my entire point as inaccurate?
Ok.
I think you need to re-read the title of this thread and realize that if Nintendo's approach to 3rd parties actually was "ABSOLUTELY ACE. Full Stop." We wouldn't be here right now, debating in a thread about yet another developer (a somewhat small one, too...) explicitly stating they have no plans to support the Wii U (and even taking it a step further and placing blame squarely on Nintendo for being neglectful).
Yup, they need to stick with what they are doing and get more exclusives through partnerships and publishing deals.
superfamicom
Banned
Seriously, Wonderful 101?
Why do people look at this game as some super huge game? People are like "I need this game."
I saw video of it and it seems ok, but it just looks like some filler game that would release at launch of a new system to get some quick easy sales due to lack of software.
I know the lack of software situation might still help them make some sales. But seriously, who gives a fuck about this game?
I imagine the devs are shitting themselves, because people are talking like this game will be a huge game to signal a shift for the WiiU. But really all they wanted was to make a fun little game to cash in at launch but it got delayed. Now they are like "fuck, this game can't live up everyones expectations".
I am at the point that I really don't give a damn about the WiiU.
With the Wii I started out very luke warm and not too excited about the system. That never really improved much through my time owning it. As my interest slowly dried up until nothing.
Now the WiiU has started out and I like most people just don't care.
I'm very curious to see what will happen with the WiiU. I really think it possible for this to be an early abandoned system.
In a way I hope this system is a total failure because I really want it to send a strong message to Nintendo to wake the fuck up and force them to do some major company changes.
Why do people look at this game as some super huge game? People are like "I need this game."
I saw video of it and it seems ok, but it just looks like some filler game that would release at launch of a new system to get some quick easy sales due to lack of software.
I know the lack of software situation might still help them make some sales. But seriously, who gives a fuck about this game?
I imagine the devs are shitting themselves, because people are talking like this game will be a huge game to signal a shift for the WiiU. But really all they wanted was to make a fun little game to cash in at launch but it got delayed. Now they are like "fuck, this game can't live up everyones expectations".
I am at the point that I really don't give a damn about the WiiU.
With the Wii I started out very luke warm and not too excited about the system. That never really improved much through my time owning it. As my interest slowly dried up until nothing.
Now the WiiU has started out and I like most people just don't care.
I'm very curious to see what will happen with the WiiU. I really think it possible for this to be an early abandoned system.
In a way I hope this system is a total failure because I really want it to send a strong message to Nintendo to wake the fuck up and force them to do some major company changes.
NOPE, I did not.
Me:
Did I say Nintendo's approach to 3rd parties was "ABSOLUTELY ACE"? No. I said Nintendo's approach to small developers was "Absolutely Ace", because it has been. I'm talking about Nintendo's interaction with small devs, which is also 3rd party support. People here on GAF talk about the Wii U's lack of third party support yet don't recognize the mass of developers NOA has recruited and continues to recruit for the eShop. It is very impressive. That needs to be just as part of the narrative as the big publishers withholding support. THAT is what will give a clearer and more complete picture of the whole situation.
Every dev wants their game to be talked about as much as possible. The more hype the better. But I agree it looks like a very niche game in NA and EU.
You want major changes? You mean like a huge restructure and new HQ? Like publishing and funding a variety of 3rd party games? Embracing indie devs more than Sony or Microsoft?
Just quckly browsing through this thread, but this post really stood out to me because it basically sums up my thoughts as well and agree with every point. I'm 100% behind web01 in that this console has very clearly been rushed for a holiday period.
There has been absolutely no hype for this console - what incentives does Nintendo provide the hardcore AND the casual market to purchase this device? With the hardcore they're saying "Hey we will have Mario and Zelda in HD" but is that really enough anymore? With the casual they're saying "Hey we have a tablet controller with buttons" but most of the casual market already has an iPad or tablet and are quite satisfied with the experiences on that platform.
There is just zero hardcore support (outside of Nintendo fans) because the hardcore market is waiting for the true next-gen leap in PS4/Durango. There's no beating about the bush on this, Wii U is really just a refined current-gen console with more RAM. Why bother having backwards compatible support for Wii if it doesn't even bother doing a simple upscale?
I think the lack of focus of the product, a tendency to be "different" for the sake of being different and the lack of power has just killed most of the momentum of the Wii U. If Nintendo were saying "Hey we need to court the hardcore gamer again" then why in the hell did they cheap out on hardware when everyone knows a hardcore gamer loves power?!
It's going to be a Gamecube situation all over again, the Wii U will get all these fantastic Nintendo games that Nintendo fans will no doubt purchase, a few hidden gems from some third party publishers and then just a desert of nothing. The PS4 and Durango will get everything and anything - strong third party support, indie titles, casual titles, arcade gems and so on.
It's a shame really as I love playing my 3DS and the excellent first and third party titles that are available for it. It feels like the 3DS is just such focused and has lots of momentum and the Wii U is the complete opposite!
Nightstick11
Banned
BlazinAm is as incoherent as Amirox is amusing.
Anyways, I think Nintendo needs to do two things:
(1) Crucify EA+ Unconditionally support Ubi. They need a little Yamauchi up in here and shun EA until they have a disaster and beg for a license sorta like Square did back in the day.
(2) NOA needs to be given the autonomy to open 3-4 development teams. Maybe NOE too.
Anyways, I think Nintendo needs to do two things:
(1) Crucify EA+ Unconditionally support Ubi. They need a little Yamauchi up in here and shun EA until they have a disaster and beg for a license sorta like Square did back in the day.
(2) NOA needs to be given the autonomy to open 3-4 development teams. Maybe NOE too.
Angel Whispers
Member
First of all, I never said it was a charity, so there's no need for the condescending tone. Truthfully, nobody knows how any game will perform. But they are expanding while others around them close, so I'll put it out there that they're right not to adopt this "West Way is the Best Way" mentality which is plaguing the industry. I'll also put it out there that 8th Gen engines are scalable, so they had to find a balance between having a console capable of running them (they have it), and achieving an accessible price (they have it). I believe that backwards compatibility was important, not only for those upgrading from a Wii, but because most customers wanted it (I don't mean NeoGAF here; they're irrelevant). It was also in their interests to keep the costs of game development down - I agree with all of this, as I believe that a giant leap and a continuation of what we've had between 2006-2012, and into 2013 is not in the industry's interests.
I don't accept that they have to make the same console as everybody else, or to conform. They had ambitions for the GamePad (Nintendo Land, Game & Wario and Wii Fit U were just a few examples of gaming concepts, while others may see a 'console version of DS', for want of another expression), and Off-TV play is appealing for many. While a game can be taken to its window, it also continues with the idea of families and friends staying in the same room and enjoying it together or individually. A lot of people on here say that too much was spent on it, but nobody knows how much it cost to make, so I reject that. Some just hate it without even trying it. Oh, and it can support 2 GamePads - Reggie confirmed that at E3 2012. Also, they are doing many of those things you said (expansions, collaborations... Iwata has taken up a position at the North American division, so let us see. Also, they're publishing Bravely Default: Flying Fairy - this tells me that they are learning from the Xenoblade/Pandora's Tower/Last Story affair, and for fans in North America, let us hope that something like this doesn't happen again, or so frequently in the future). Being a compassionate conservative company isn't the same as being 'stingy'. Some might argue that it's one of the healthier positions to adopt in business - There's spending money to make money, but at the same time, there are no guarantees, there's cutting your coat according to your size and living within your means. Not one person was put out of work (can't say that about EA or Square Enix, or about Sony, who are indulging in power races while laying off 10,000 people). I would say that there's a case for a stronger European presence, but I trust that they are all trying their best. I also believe that Iwata should have every chance to realise his vision, and that ultimately, they'll be better off for it. I'm aware that some on here are calling for his head, but I strongly disagree. Certainly, I don't believe that they should take lectures from NeoGAF on how to run their hugely successful business.
Say what you will about 'botched' launches; I disagree on this, too. The 3DS's main problems were that it launched without a Mario game, and that the DS still had life in its tail end. Of course, a price cut CAN help, but that wasn't the primary reason for its turnaround. I believe that when Nintendo said they had learned lessons from the 3DS, they meant in terms of having more games available in the launch window for the Wii U - they delivered on that side, THEN launching with a Mario game. If you remember E3 2011, NSMBU was there in raw form as NSMBMii (I hate that this game gets called a 'lazy' effort by some when it has some of the tightest level design in all side-scrolling Mario games, and had been in development for quite a while). At E3 2012, Reggie said that many fans want a Mario game at launch (His words were "You've Gotta launch with Mario", or something among those lines). So, he revealed what you now know as NSMBU - 3D Mario isn't here YET, because moving into HD game development hasn't been an easy or smooth transition, and they want it to be something very special. I'll keep mentioning the point about the transition, because the Internet hasn't allowed for that fact. To my mind, they addressed what they believed to be the main concerns. One can be critical again about what they should have done, as they have hindsight on their side, but they addressed WHAT THEY BELIEVED to be the main concerns - that is the point here, not whether they were right or not. I feel that they were right to a point - As brilliant as NSMBU is, it is NOT the type of game that makes one say "I would spend £250-330 and buy a Wii U to play this!!". A 3D Mario, while not as popular as the NSMB games in terms of sales, is the type of game that shows noticeable steps from the last flagship game, and with the exception of Sunshine, they help people to understand better why they are paying more to own or upgrade to the new console. NSMBU is more of an 'evergreen' title - That is to say that when more people own a Wii U, they will most probably buy that game at some point as it would be on their 'must play' list. It will continue to sell during the Wii U's life-cycle. Had it been released later, as NSMB2 on the 3DS was, some might still have bought a Wii U, but at that point, there would've been other games in the console's library, and sufficient reasons to bite.
I believe that the launch was fine, at least, it did as well as it could've done in the current circumstances. Iwata had no control over Rayman Legends being delayed, Crysis 3 and Aliens: Colonial Marines being discarded or other titles not announced for the Wii U - Had those events not happened earlier in 2013, any talk of 'droughts' would have been far less pronounced. Pikmin 3 is an unfortunate delay, but I would rather they made the best game they can. Given that all but one of those events, if that, were beyond his control, my verdict is that he delivers. Also, writing it off before they've played their cards is preposterous - Currently, It has no 3D Mario, Mario Kart, Wii U Zelda, Donkey Kong, Metroid, Kid Icarus, Wii Fit U, Wii U Sports, Wii U Party, Brain Training, Animal Crossing, Pokemon, Nintendogs & Cats, Pikmin 3, Kirby, F-Zero, Starfox, Bayonetta 2, The Wonderful 101, SMT VS Fire Emblem, Retro or Monolith Games or Smash Bros.
I wouldn't be so sure that PS4 and Microsoft's 8th Gen console fly off the shelves. The Vita, as well as the Wii U and 3DS, combined with the rise of tablets and phones, as well as the fact that retailers such as GAME and HMV faced troubles would show that this isn't a Nintendo problem. The fact that games stores are dedicating more space to tablets and phones should reinforce this. They, as well as Sony and Microsoft, will be presented with very different challenges and social issues. There are many late adopters of PS360 consoles, so it's not so unreasonable to say that they won't be in a rush to upgrade. Just as some might be fine with the Wii, others might be fine with their Kinect. But few actually acknowledge that such audiences exist elsewhere. Others might decide that it's better to invest in a PC. Then you have (youth) unemployment at a high, especially in Europe - these factors will have an influence, if they aren't already. This, and the fact that it's a very different climate now - X360 sold very well in Wii U's launch week in North America. I would put it to you that people saw a wide library of games and a lower point of entry to ownership - there's an understandable appeal in that. 3DS also performed well, and even the Wii which had few releases in 2012, but a wide library of games.
It's easy to dismiss as a fanperson, but I don't whitewash Nintendo - I was addressing a different issue. While a very passionate fan, sometimes sympathetic, I'll be critical where I feel it's fair. But I do feel that fans have been failed collectively by 'third parties' (not all). Getting the better/final kits out earlier should have been imperative. I think this measure would've crushed development concerns which came out in in 2011. If you remember, Battlefield 3 was pencilled in for a Wii U release (which ran on Frostbite 2). It was soon cancelled. The kits had seen many improvements since then. If you remember the 'horrible processor' comments, again, these were on early kits during Darksiders 2 development. I suspect that the recent EA storm was in relation to those events, and that they hadn't come back to it since - you could, however, release a Fifa 13 (what some called Version 12.5 with GamePad features, not Frostbite 2, but still an EA game on the platform). MOH: Warfighter (also Frostbite 2) was another title listed in the launch window reel, but never saw a release. So, in this case, I would be critical of Nintendo. At the same time, I could also point to losses for the first time, 3DS launch schedule and resources allocated to that (managing two platforms is harder than many recognise), getting the last bunch of Wii games out, ongoing expansions and a transition to the era of HD gaming development. Why not expand earlier? I don't think Nintendo expected the Wii and DS to achieve the levels of success they had, and naturally, they would've had to respond to those demands, as well as the other points I mentioned. So, while critical, I'm looking at the whole picture, and I'm also more sympathetic. It's possible to do both without the hyperbole and without shitting on people. I could tell you many things that I feel they could've done differently because everybody else has the benefit of hindsight, but my post wasn't in the business of blaming people. I was referring to the BS from 'third parties' and confronting the idea that there isn't a market for certain genres on Nintendo consoles. You said that "You have to spend money to make money", yet in the same breath, you whitewash 'third parties' for refusing to do the same for the Wii U in order to expand their markets... No calling them 'stingy' for it... No inconsistencies there... **Sigh and Roll Eyes...**. Let's also forget that the Indie Circuit are very much on board, and Nintendo have done much right there - I would encourage them to continue in that spirit. Of course, You are welcome to disagree with everything in my post, and say "It's solely Nintendo's fault" - If I was to point at anybody, then there are degrees of fault on all sides. You might choose, as some have, to shit on Nintendo, the Wii U, Nintendo fans and their concerns, or dismiss. I tend to be more understanding and compassionate. I would do the same for others, and no, I'm not wrong for that. Let's leave it here.
shinra-bansho
Member
Seriously? Shun EA? What is this delusion?
EA made a paltry 2.2% of their revenue off of Nintendo's combined platforms in the last fiscal year.
They just extended the FIFA license for 10 years.
Begging? LMAO.
Square were down on their knees when they released several of their best-selling games ever on the PlayStation 1 and 2, to get in on all that N64 and GameCube action. Okay.
metalslimer
Member
Some people really do think Nintendo is the alpha and omega of the industry.
lol I just saw the Square comment. Nintendo is the one that was doing the begging there not Square.
I agree with the sentiment a few pages back. I think Nintendo has very clearly contributed to a mindset in which buying a Nintendo console for nothing more than Nintendo games is totally normal (outside of games like JD and so forth). If I remember my Wii U software/hardware numbers correctly -- it seems as though all the loyal/core Nintendo fans purchased the console in the first few months. And given the lack of appeal for most of the audience outside of Nintendo fans -- you get the monthly NPD numbers we see now.
Appreciate the extensively detailed reply, Angel Whispers, and I am going to respond to it. However, due to the extremely lengthy nature of the reply and the respect for which your post demands, I am not going to have time to finish my reply tonight. So, expect it tomorrow afternoon (5:00PM EST- 7:00PM EST) if it'd do ya fine.
Angel Whispers
Member
Amir0x, Thanks for reading. I hope I didn't come across as off with you in my post, and look forward to reading yours. Enjoy your night.
darkistheway
Member
Awesome
Really great thoughts in your post, Angel Whispers.
I try to always take an objective point of view with all aspects of the videogame business and posts like yours speak to my ideal
1. There are stupid statements made by both the consumers and the industry folks alike.
2. You can't make a claim that Avalanche wouldn't have supported the Wii U, although now that we have these statements I think it is safe to assume now that they will not support the platform.
3. NSMBU will most likely not even come close, sooo yeah also the 3d Mario game don't sell like that.
4. There is a selling point of a next-generation console that has better visuals that is something the next ps4 or next xbox has as a selling point over the wii U.
5. In terms of third party sales the big publishers have moved on from Nintendo for the most part. Bringing up company woes does mean that that releasing content on a Nintendo platform would solve any of that. The issues they are having have more to do with how viable their software is as a mass market release.
6. .... I am not disagreeing with you? People have selective views about the third party releases on the platform which is what the discussion in this thread I was referring to.
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
Sure, Platinum is developing the game, sure it looks fun.
But it should give you a hint as to why fans are getting overly hyped for a moderately fun game; there are no games.
Pimkin is its biggest competitor, and chances are consumers are going to own both.
Let the competition roll.
But it should give you a hint as to why fans are getting overly hyped for a moderately fun game; there are no games.
Pimkin is its biggest competitor, and chances are consumers are going to own both.
Let the competition roll.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Let me offer a rebuttal to some of your counter-points.
1. Your reply has no bearing on what he said though. His is referring to this ideal of "lazy developers" whenever a studio decides it's not economically viable to devote money and man-hours to developing a title for said platform, and people basically get mad and call them lazy and everything under the sun.
2. Pretty nice cop out.
3. Truth.
4. I'm sure Sony and MS will be fine with their multiple million selling titles on each platform despite what Nintendo sells. Bad response on your end.
5. This was purely an emotional outburst from you. The reason that studios and companies are putting their support behind PS4/Durango instead of Wii U is because they consoles have the tools necessary to justify putting money into R&D for them. Nintendo backed itself into a corner by releasing a console that will be quickly compared to the PS4/Durango upon release due to its lack of things developers deem useful for their own games and so forth. The only company that is truly depending on the success of its console is Nintendo (and to a small extent Sony but I digress).
6. Truth.
7. While any of the big three folding would be bad for the industry, the company that would make the least amount of impact with it dying off would be Nintendo. Since Nintendo is purely a gaming company, it's exit would only affect gaming as Sony or MS folding would have much more dire consequences especially if it were MS. Of course, that will never happen so it's best to not even think that way.
8. If by biggest selling titles of the generation you mean the bundled in Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Fit, so on? Sure, MS and Sony would have liked those sales but you forget they have their own series that are doing their own great numbers. In any case, MS and Sony wouldn't want to trade positions with Nintendo at the moment for anything in the world right now.
This thread scares me. It's as if all of the WiiU discussion was leading to a black hole, and now we're fully into it, being crushed by the weight of all the rage, sales-talk, doom-speak, and rational discussion. It's all compiled into one thing, and it's know as:
Avalanche (Just Cause) - Wii U dev kits collecting dust......the thread!
Zoramon089
Banned
Bayonetta hyped? No one says anything
Vanquish hyped? No one says anything
MGR hyped? No one says anything
W101 hyped? It's because Wii U has no games
Ugh...I can't remember the last exclusive for a Nintendo consoles where this type of thing wasn't repeated in every thread about it
Are we not waiting for a dream lineup for the PS4/720 before questioning their value? When they're released are we just going to ignore any announced games that haven't been released and not factor them into our judging of the console? Why is this any different for the Wii U? And how are these titles not also considered "dream titles"?
Now I'm not saying you can't have some opinion on it based on its current lineup but ignoring potential future games (which, with most of that list, are definite future games as opposed to potential) makes little sense
Vanquish hyped? No one says anything
MGR hyped? No one says anything
W101 hyped? It's because Wii U has no games
Ugh...I can't remember the last exclusive for a Nintendo consoles where this type of thing wasn't repeated in every thread about it
Are we not waiting for a dream lineup for the PS4/720 before questioning their value? When they're released are we just going to ignore any announced games that haven't been released and not factor them into our judging of the console? Why is this any different for the Wii U? And how are these titles not also considered "dream titles"?
Now I'm not saying you can't have some opinion on it based on its current lineup but ignoring potential future games (which, with most of that list, are definite future games as opposed to potential) makes little sense
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
Zoramon, listen, where are these games now? The system is on the market NOW. The system has no games, and that's why fans are aspiring to play the titles you listed.
Revengeance hasn't been confirmed yet.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Yea its sad..but I have popcorn. Want some?
superfamicom
Banned
No I mean a major shift in the way they think about games, and they way the create them.
I want them to start taking the industry more serious and start putting serious effort, and not be content to just slide by with the bare minimum.
shinra-bansho
Member
Before they've played their cards?
Why are people pretending they didn't already play a huge card, one they thought was an Ace? You know, that sequel to that 25M selling game?
Why are people pretending they didn't try to use the collective brand power of their traditional franchises to sell the system's hook?
Yes, they have more to play and it will be interesting how the marketplace reacts to their hand. But roll-calling F-Zero and the Wonderful 101 and Metroid as if they will provide significant impetus? I don't see it. Those titles are going to sell to the same people already buying the system now - Nintendo's core fanbase. I suppose it could increase the rate at which the system sells to that fanbase.
The wildcards now are essentially how consumers react to Mario Kart U and follow ups to the Wii ____ series - these are the titles that had broad appeal beyond just the Nintendo-core. And I suppose if they manage to catch some sort of lightning in a bottle again with some breakout hit.
Why are people pretending they didn't already play a huge card, one they thought was an Ace? You know, that sequel to that 25M selling game?
Why are people pretending they didn't try to use the collective brand power of their traditional franchises to sell the system's hook?
Yes, they have more to play and it will be interesting how the marketplace reacts to their hand. But roll-calling F-Zero and the Wonderful 101 and Metroid as if they will provide significant impetus? I don't see it. Those titles are going to sell to the same people already buying the system now - Nintendo's core fanbase. I suppose it could increase the rate at which the system sells to that fanbase.
The wildcards now are essentially how consumers react to Mario Kart U and follow ups to the Wii ____ series - these are the titles that had broad appeal beyond just the Nintendo-core. And I suppose if they manage to catch some sort of lightning in a bottle again with some breakout hit.
I think his point is that only Nintendo fans get away with this excuse or think its a salient point or a proper rebuttal toward people criticizing Nintendo in the present.
It would of been like ps3 fanboys claiming immunity from criticism for $599 and their failures out the gate because people should of let Gran Turismo, Naughty Dog's games, Final Fantasy, God of War 3, Metal Gear Solid to release before they make a judgment.
Just because a company MAY succeed down the line doesn't mean it becomes immune to criticism in the present.
I don't think moneyhatting a small handful of 3rd party developers is going to be the ticket that alters the exodus of third party support from their company over the last few generations.
Perhaps it could be one prong in a larger attack but Nintendo has already screwed the pooch again on third party support.
lwilliams3
Member
I generally agree with this post. I'm sure Mario Kart will at least be success in some ways, but it would be best for Nintendo to not just rely on those franchises ro boost up Wii U's appeal.
This this this this bloody fucking GOD THIS!!!
It's one thing to have this discussion openly, honestly and fairly. It's another thing to be condescendingly told CONSTANTLY to "wait for [insert far off game from Nintendo franchise X here]" before being allowed to have an opinion on the state of Nintendo's affairs in the hardware sector. It gets old, and it makes no sense in light of how terrible the Wii U is doing NOW, to be honest.
Poimandres
Member
Plenty of PS3 fans tried to talk up "the potential" of the system in those rough early days. It was the source of the classic "X game will save the PS3" blackboard meme. Even before launch everybody knew there were Metal Gears, Final Fantasys and Gran Turismos down the line... but it took Sony years to turn things around, and some criticims like poor ports remained relevant for most of the machines life.
Even though the PS3 has gone on to be successful relative to its poor launch, this can't be attributed to any particular game "saving" the system. Strong third party support was probably the main factor, and that looks like something Nintendo just isn't going to get here. Big Nintendo exclusives definitely have a lot more pulling power, but exactly how far that reaches remains to be seen.
A game like Mario Kart should sell very well, but I'm skeptical it will move huge numbers of systems. There should be a spike around Christmas time, but will it be maintained?
This is an industry problem. If developers can only develop for established platforms with 50 million install base then the video game industry is doomed.
Nintendo has a small install base because it has no games to sell the system. Developers are unwilling to develop for platforms with a small install base. Nintendo is fucked and Sony better find a way to sell 16 million PS4's by Xmas or the industry is done.
Nintendo has a small install base because it has no games to sell the system. Developers are unwilling to develop for platforms with a small install base. Nintendo is fucked and Sony better find a way to sell 16 million PS4's by Xmas or the industry is done.
But for the most part, its usually a problem with Nintendo consoles.
Big Third Parties will support the other systems, but Nintendo's audience has always had to prove itself that it existed. Even when the Wii was selling gangbusters, devs had a wait and see outlook because it was a "fad", when sales continued for years, they decided to make test bed cut down side games to test the market.
Even now with the Wii U, owners that have the system feel cheated because of the games Available on the platforms, the games lack features and support that the other versions of the games have. So publishers are sending messages to consumers that even if you get this multiplatform title, it's still going to be superior on other platforms even if they are older.
But of course I could be wrong, and the PS4 does have a slow launch as well, with some droughts. Then the whole industry would need to re-evaluate their priorities or else we will have a crash.
I don't think this is the problem.
3rd Parties support MS and Sony consoles despite having an install base of 0 because they're confident that the audience will come.
The audience comes because they know the games eventually will.
It's a cycle - a symbiotic relationship.
At some point, Nintendo broke this relationship. In my opinion, it all goes back to Nintendo failing to prove that there's an audience for 3rd party games on their hardware.
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
Yes, but unlike the WiiU, Sony made all the effort it could to lure 3rd parties in, instead of not picking up the phone in a snooty fashion and preventing the games from being released on their system.
Self-handicap, self-sabotage.
I remember Sony was begging, it shouldn't be beneath Nintendo to beg. NO PAIN NO GAIN.
Zoramon089
Banned
Yeah but we're literally have the same discussions over and over. We know exactly when games will come out and yet we still have people saying "Well, Nintendo better do something quick to turn this around!" when we literally know what their plans are for the next few months (nothing until July/August)
Thank you. Drives me crazy, people expecting these fucking corporations to be content with mere profit. The Wii-U is already a failure, coming off the Wii this is simply a colossal flop. No amount of spinning can convince me otherwise. Nintendo will be lucky to make any significant profit off the Wii-U, however mere profit is not the sole goal of a company. It's about how much profit you can get. Stockholders and investors will not be satisfied with Nintendo simply limping along. The Wii-U won't kill Nintendo, but it will cause some damage that will result in some coporate shake-ups.
Even if PS3 sells two units before Christmas publishers will still be announcing titles for it. Nintendo is an easy target to ignore.
Man I can't wait until E3. It's going to be insane from all perspectives.
prag16
Banned
And the circle jerk continues. The same couple dozen people arguing the same arguments thread after thread grows tiresome.
Back to Avalanche.. just cause.. any good? A couple friends say it's okay but gets boring fast. Worth checking out?
EDIT yep, post right below mine... part of the problem.
Back to Avalanche.. just cause.. any good? A couple friends say it's okay but gets boring fast. Worth checking out?
EDIT yep, post right below mine... part of the problem.
We'll stop having these discussions when/if Nintendo turns things around. Until then, this is a gaming message board, and every week the bad news just keeps stacking higher than the Empire State. Blame Nintendo.
Not to mention, I think there's a worthy point in the idea that a comeback seems more and more unlikely the more the bad news is allowed to pile up unimpeded by the release of quality software.
Catchpenny
Member
Really? At least the 3DS is doing well; Vita is a bigger bust than Wii U. PS3 is winding down and was a net loss for Sony (though you could argue it was worth it to win the HD disc wars), and PS4 hasn't moved a unit yet. I'm of a mind that only one console will truly be successful in the upcoming generation, and much as I hate to admit it, it's probably going to be the one that sells at $299 with a subscription and a more accurate Kinect.
metalslimer
Member
Vita is not nearly as important to Sony's business as Wii U. On a relative scale, Wii U is absolutely the bigger bust right now, although the upsides of Wii U are much much higher than that of Vita which is just pretty much unsellable in this market.
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
Unfortunately, the PS4 hasn't moved any units yet because they have yet to be sold. How is the Vita a bigger bust than WiiU? Elaborate, my dear.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
I have to say that is one if the best posts I have read regarding a defense (?) or explanation regarding where Nintendo finds itself and why from a Nintendo fan on this forum. I may not agree with all of it but bravo. Great post.
1. Absolutely not. Wii U is the bigger bust because it is Nintendo's next-gen console coming off of the insane sales of the Wii and has done a complete 180 compared to Sony's floundering handheld that could be killed off if need be and it wouldn't affect them as much. In relation, Nintendo is in the more dire strait.
2. This remains to be seen. We'll have to wait until the 21st and E3 before we start making those kind of predictions.
so you're going to pretend Nintendo doesn't have a knack for turning their platforms around? DS? 3DS?
this "dream lineup" of Mario's, Zeldas, Metroids, Star Fox's etc is going to boost sales, but it's the blue ocean games we don't know about yet that could have U take off, just like Wii Sports, Nintendogs, Brain Age, Wii Fit, etc. beyond the cards in their hand, Nintendo has aces in their sleeves, for example a Pokemon (quasi) MMO. Hell, take it a step further and utilize NFC cards or toys and DLC.
comparing Nintendo's relationship to Sony's is a show of ignorance. The two companies have completely different business models, with one company needing 3rd party support and the other mostly indifferent. They want their install base to buy Mario, not Madden.
Really? So losing money and an entire sector of your gaming division is preferable to having a shaky start on a console that has possibly already made Nintendo money, with dozens of high profile games on the way?
And I don't know how many times and in how many ways it needs to be clocked that Nintendo's situation in the console market is not at all comparable their perfomance in the handheld market before it sinks in. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT circumstances and history. The two cannot be compared.
Does Nintendo have a history of turning around their home consoles? Hmmm?
Besides that, I think it's pretty safe to say at this point that the Wii U is not going to find a blue ocean. We'd have seen it by now.
They have only mad 4 games. Have never developed a game for a Nintendo console, eventhough the Wii was the best selling console last gen by far, and now they come out and say, they won't develop for the Wii U - well, ok!
They've never planned to develop for the Wii U in the first place anyway (I think). I didn't matter that Just Cause wasn't on Wii and it won't matter that it's sequel isn't on Wii U as well.
Wouldn't be suprised if the Next Cause/Mad Max whatever is gonna be a PS4 exlusive.
So this is not a big deal at all. The Wii U's fate does not rely on them.
They've never planned to develop for the Wii U in the first place anyway (I think). I didn't matter that Just Cause wasn't on Wii and it won't matter that it's sequel isn't on Wii U as well.
Wouldn't be suprised if the Next Cause/Mad Max whatever is gonna be a PS4 exlusive.
So this is not a big deal at all. The Wii U's fate does not rely on them.